United promise "relentless" and "decisive" action to achieve success

Plant0x84 said:
Woodward and Judge are gone. We should judge the new guys on their own performance, not tar them with the previous buffoons.
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Like giving Ole a new contract last year when he had a year left on his current deal when most of the fanbase were divided after losing the Europa league final?

Decisive action should be shown, not said, the clue is in the name, these guys have been here for years already, we'll see how we'll they do over this summer, but considering they were part of our tragic last decade, they're not getting any leeway from me.
 
yumtum said:
Like giving Ole a new contract last year when he had a year left on his current deal when most of the fanbase were divided after losing the Europa league final?

Decisive action should be shown, not said, the clue is in the name, these guys have been here for years already, we'll see how we'll they do over this summer, but considering they were part of our tragic last decade, they're not getting any leeway from me.
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Ideologically yes. But realistically these soundbites are good to let the fans know that at least they're working and acknowledging the problem.

You might not care. But i asumme alot actually felt relieved that at least certain things were tried even if for now the result is yet to be seen

But as always. Fans are always complaining
 
The immediate response to this statement that comes to mind is “by whom”? Can one of them, this Arnold included, tell me who this magically decisive decision maker who has decided to stay hidden among the chattel for so long is? And why they’ve decided to step forward and choose now to be competent?

I’m genuinely curious… you know, the whole “definition of insanity” thing and all that.
 
Bluelion7 said:
The immediate response to this statement that comes to mind is “by whom”? Can one of them, this Arnold included, tell me who this magically decisive decision maker who has decided to stay hidden among the chattel for so long is? And why they’ve decided to step forward and choose now to be competent?

I’m genuinely curious… you know, the whole “definition of insanity” thing and all that.
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I mean, it’s very easy for somebody to get frustrated when their boss who’s making all the calls is the one taking ages to do anything. Woodward had ultimate control, so you can’t really hold having worked here against everyone that was beneath him.

Not that it’ll stop people, but it’s very dumb. Given what we know of how our structure was then we need to give people a clean slate.
 
If we have four new first team ready signings, instead of the usual third choice keeper or Pellistri/ Diallo types, by the time pre-season kicks off on June 27, with even more departures, then we might be getting somewhere.
 
padzilla said:
If we have four new first team ready signings, instead of the usual third choice keeper or Pellistri/ Diallo types, by the time pre-season kicks off on June 27, with even more departures, then we might be getting somewhere.
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Yes. The next 4 weeks before preseason starts will be crucial. We can't sign 3-4 starting players by mid/end July. That would handicap our season. We need to have our incomings done to 90% before preseason.
 
The scene in Father Ted where Ted & Dougal get all fired up to do some house cleaning immediately springs to mind.

Let's clean this mother!

(I would insert a gif but that meanie Invictus might issue me another inappropriate meme warning. :nervous:
 
If you're sincere about taking relentless and decisive actions, then please start by getting rid of the club captain who's clearly out of his depth and has no place here.

Show us you really mean business and are actually relentless rather than saying it. That would be a clear statement of relentlessness and decisiveness.
 
theatreofdreams777 said:
If you're sincere about taking relentless and decisive actions, then please start by getting rid of the club captain who's clearly out of his depth and has no place here.

Show us you really mean business and are actually relentless rather than saying it. That would be a clear statement of relentlessness and decisiveness.
UOTE]
I would hope its the manager making that decision not Arnold
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theatreofdreams777 said:
If you're sincere about taking relentless and decisive actions, then please start by getting rid of the club captain who's clearly out of his depth and has no place here.

Show us you really mean business and are actually relentless rather than saying it. That would be a clear statement of relentlessness and decisiveness.
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It would also be fecking stupid to do that.
 
phelans shorts said:
It would also be fecking stupid to do that.
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is it though ? I agree with you to an extent however , the likes of pogba and his team throughout his time here was floating the " i would love to play here or there ". Also there are statements from players about how playing for their national team is so much more fun. Yet if our staff float the idea of "'X" needing to pull their socks up or he is heading towards to the exit door we are somehow destroying their confidence and devaluing them as human beings.
 
phelans shorts said:
I mean, it’s very easy for somebody to get frustrated when their boss who’s making all the calls is the one taking ages to do anything. Woodward had ultimate control, so you can’t really hold having worked here against everyone that was beneath him.

Not that it’ll stop people, but it’s very dumb. Given what we know of how our structure was then we need to give people a clean slate.
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But DID Woodward have control? Or did he have to consult myriad board members, people like SAF or others before making decisions. This sort of thing, and the dynamics involved, were very near my courses of study in University, so I feel very safe in stating what has been happening with United is NOT the product of unified decision making or vision, even an incompetent one. It seems more the product of at least 3, maybe 4 different people or groups feeling they have some level of control over the direction of the club competing to see who has the upper hand (usually in terms of internal politics and leverage), and the result is something of a hodgepodge …. Which is what you have ended up with in United’s case.
Point being: you don’t come out and declare you are going to be “unified” and “decisive” unless it is obvious to people that you haven’t been those things previously. But have they actually changed? My worry for United fans is that the most likely answer to that question is “no.” Mostly because groups that have a competent, well-organized leadership structure don’t have to try and sell people on the idea they are decisive in the first place. They would be focused on executing every level of the plan and leave it to others to make qualitative observations about how things are different.
 
Bluelion7 said:
But DID Woodward have control? Or did he have to consult myriad board members, people like SAF or others before making decisions. This sort of thing, and the dynamics involved, were very near my courses of study in University, so I feel very safe in stating what has been happening with United is NOT the product of unified decision making or vision, even an incompetent one. It seems more the product of at least 3, maybe 4 different people or groups feeling they have some level of control over the direction of the club competing to see who has the upper hand (usually in terms of internal politics and leverage), and the result is something of a hodgepodge …. Which is what you have ended up with in United’s case.
Point being: you don’t come out and declare you are going to be “unified” and “decisive” unless it is obvious to people that you haven’t been those things previously. But have they actually changed? My worry for United fans is that the most likely answer to that question is “no.” Mostly because groups that have a competent, well-organized leadership structure don’t have to try and sell people on the idea they are decisive in the first place. They would be focused on executing every level of the plan and leave it to others to make qualitative observations about how things are different.
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I agree with you first post. I cba to find it so I'll quote this one. It's a big assumption to say Woodward was blocking all these great decision makers. It takes it a step further to say every decision was made on a binary scale by one person alone and two steps further to say he was making those decisions to the disapproval of his own staff. He even promoted many of them himself. It wasn't just Ole and Woodward making bad decisions. It's almost a stretch to deduce he acted alone. Despite being an egomaniac Woodward never actually hid the fact that he was also taking recommendations from the football staff.

From the 800 fullbacks interview.
Woodward said:
“Player recommendations and decisions are worked on by this department and by the first-team manager and his staff, not by senior management.”

“There is a myth we have non-football people making football decisions.

“I think it’s insulting to the brilliant people who work in this club.

“Many of the senior staff on the football side have been in their roles for over ten years.

“Some of our scouts have worked with us for more than 25 years.

“We’ve expanded our recruitment department in recent years and we believe this now runs in an efficient and productive way.
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From the Jose veto interview.
Woodward told United We Stand: “It is true that there was a difference of opinion on one or two players between the manager and the recruitment department.

“Sometimes I have to be one who delivers the ‘no’, which isn’t easy, because our natural tendency is to back the manager in every possible circumstance, but we have to listen to the recruitment experts too.”
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I don't know where the belief emanated that the football people at the club were getting overruled and never supported Woodward's actions. His decisions weren't being made in a vacuum. Imo they now have to earn the benefit of the doubt because they were very much a part of the last regime. I'd hope for a start to move away from disastrous timed contract renewals.
 
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I see that a lot of posters are focusing on new signings.
I'm more interested in the outgoings.
While we have the likes of Scott McT, Telles, AWB, Maguire...and a whole bunch of other players, we won't be moving forward, so the focus should be on getting rid of the turds.
Unfortunately, because the club sees these turds as assets, they won't get rid, so the manager will have no option but to keep picking these turds.

For the record, I don't see any will to win trophies. I see a will to get top 4, but that is the extent of our ambition.

The club is a shambles from top to bottom and any idiot can see that. It astounds me that the people in charge of our club can't see these things.
Fitness coaches,
first-team coaches,
player mentality,
player accountability,
poor ambition from the board (4th place is good enough)
first-team players who have become numb to losing,
mediocre players on high wages,
refusal to sell players who are not good enough,
unable to sell players due to their high wages,
buying players and offering them big wages,
buying players who don't want to join but join for the big wage,
players constantly injured
buying older players who have won big trophies, but are past their use-by date
...and a whole lot more.

In order to have us competing for trophies, consistently, within 5 years, we need to move at breakneck speed....and we aren't.
I realise that some fans are young and hopeful, but to turn this juggernaut around, we need real change, not just quotes which sound good.
 
Sandikan said:
I always hate the "it's only xxx date" type posters...but seriously fella, it is still May!!
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That argument doesn't work.
In previous transfer windows which went really badly, we were making very little progress in May. Posters like you said exactly the same thing.
I remember Jose's final season, this is exactly what was said.
People called me names when I said that Grant and Fred would be our only signings and the club were shouting loud about these signing because those were the only players incoming. I was branded a fool....but I was right.
The season started bad and Jose was fired soon after.

In any case, I don't believe that signings will help in our situation. We need a complete reset. ETH needs to demonstrate that he is in complete control. To clarify, it is no good saying that he is in charge. He needs to do something which shows that he is in absolute control.
If he transfer lists Rashford or Maguire this week, that will send shockwaves through the dressing room and they will realise that things are about to change. That won't happen though because nothing has changed.
A new manager will arrive, huge amounts of money will be spent on player transfers/wages. We'll make top 6 next season, top 4 after that. And in his 3rd season, the players will throw ETH under the bus and the board will sack him.
 
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