United Post Ferguson CB Rank Off

hobbers said:
Why bother ranking them? Aside from Varane-Martinez all other combos were terrible.
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Including Smalling and Blind?

Not saying they were world beaters but they were a good defensive partnership.

I do think it’s quite clear (with hindsight) how sub par our defensive duos have been. We put our faith into Smalling and Jones developing into top class CBs from a young age but injuries prevented Jones (who I still maintain was one of the best young CBs I’ve ever seen) from becoming a world class reliable player.


Berbasbullet said:
Am I going crazy but we’re Smalling and Rojo also not bad together? Or was that Jones and Rojo?

Think like others Varane and Martinez/ Smalling and Blind were probably our best.

What a graveyard we have been for 10 years!
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There was a brief period of time where Jones/Smalling and Rojo were aggressive and quality. Then Rojo and Jones kept getting injured so any chance of developing a partnership went out the window.

It gets even worse when you look at our midfields too… in fact pretty much every part of the pitch has a few horrors… I have another thread idea!
 
Utd had seasons conceding 28/29 PL goals back to back with some of the guys who get overlooked on here, Varane -Martinez allowed 43, on paper it may have been the best pair but on defensive performance, not really.

Lindelof becoming a cornerstone cratered the team defensively, shocking he has lasted this long given how little defending he actually does.
 
To put things into perspective:

From 2019 to 2021 Maguire/Lindelof conceded a Premier League goal every 94,6 minutes whenever they were both on the pitch.
From 2022 to 2024 Varane/Martinez has conceded a Premier League goal every 72,2 minutes whenever they were both on the pitch.

Yes, Maguire/Lindelof crashed completely during 2021/22, but they were better than Varane/Martinez has been up until that point.
 
Varane-Martinez was overrated. 15/16 Smalling/Blind was the best. Smalling best individual season just ahead of Maguire in 20/21.
 
I think Bruce/Pally was a very underrated pairing. Never made sense to be that SB didn't get at least as few England caps. Read the game well and chipped in with quite a few goals (one or two at rather important times). Don't remember him missing a penalty either (although not saying he didn't)
 
Varane-Martinez, very good to excellent for one season.
Blind-Smalling, decent enough but not great.

All others were bad.
 
Bobski said:
Utd had seasons conceding 28/29 PL goals back to back with some of the guys who get overlooked on here, Varane -Martinez allowed 43, on paper it may have been the best pair but on defensive performance, not really.

Lindelof becoming a cornerstone cratered the team defensively, shocking he has lasted this long given how little defending he actually does.
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Well, it was under Mourinho's very defensive football, and with a God De Gea behind the center-backs.
 
Revan said:
Well, it was under Mourinho's very defensive football, and with a God De Gea behind the center-backs.
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Yes, that is true, but it was and is still an impressive defensive performance. However guys like Smalling(especially) and Jones were among the scapegoats of that era, with their positive qualities often ignored to rail endlessly about how they were holding the team back from progressing. Lisandro is well loved by the fans, and when fit is a very, very good player but some of his weaker areas (aerial/lack of pace) get glossed over.

There were plenty of games in 22/23 when Utd got ripped to bits and De Gea was making miracle saves, not as many as his prime years but not a few. A lot of those games Utd were getting thrashed in was put on the midfield despite the defenders not covering themselves in glory either.
 
Evans hasn't really played with a partner in his second time here but he's been one of our best defenders in this era and deserves a mention.
 
  1. Varane + Martinez
  2. Smalling + Blind
  3. Smalling + Jones
  4. Smalling + Bailly
  5. Maguire + Lindelöf
 
Warning: do not read thread title in voice of Jonathan Ross.

Smalling and Blind were the epitome of chalk and cheese, and probably the best to my mind. We have actually had loads of great pairings, it's just that none of them lasted five games. Weren't Jones and Rojo great for a second?
 
Looking at that list is a good way to make the de Ligt signing look about 20 times better.
 
MadDogg said:
1. Smalling - Blind (we only saw it for one season, but it was the best partnership we've had since Rio and Vidic as they both stayed fit and covered each others weaknesses).
2. Martinez - Varane (the only partnership that had peaks of a similar or higher level as the above, but it wasn't consistent both because of form and injury to the each of them).
3. Maguire - Lindelof (the two of them together never really worked properly as they had similar weaknesses, but sadly they finish 3rd here almost by default of being able to stay fit and together for a couple of years. Hell, they arguably should be 2nd).
4. Rojo - Jones (based purely on 16/17, when they had a period of a couple of months which was right up there with #1 and #2, but it didn't last long and Rojo was never the same after his ACL at the end of that season).
5. Smalling - Jones or Smalling - Lindelof (the former probably had higher peaks but also lower lows, whereas the latter was a bit more consistent).
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Agree with all of this, especially the top 2.

Smalling was always sadly underrated I think.
 
Just reminded me how encouraged I was after Bailly's first season for us.
 
Globule said:
Just reminded me how encouraged I was after Bailly's first season for us.
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After his first season I would have openly laughed at anyone who even suggested he wouldn't go on to he one of the very best centre backs in the world.

I wouldn't have even bothered arguing with them because I would have found it so absurd.
 
AltiUn said:
Varane and Martinez
Smalling and Blind
Maguire and Lindelof
Smalling and Jones

It gets really, really tricky after that. Smalling and Jones being our 4th best pairing says it all about our defensive partnerships over the last 11 years :lol:
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Your list is completely spot on. Blind completely shutting down Lukaku was a standout moment from any of our centre backs, and he was so elegant alongside Smalling that they just about worked, Maguire and Lindelof got us cl football somehow and worked together very well at times, and even Smalling and Jones when fit were better than many of our pairings last season.
 
Smalling-Blind for me. Martinez-Varane didn't play together long and consistently enough but they mirrored the Smalling-Blind combo with their respective attributes
 
CannibalSpectre said:
Smalling-Blind for me. Martinez-Varane didn't play together long and consistently enough but they mirrored the Smalling-Blind combo with their respective attributes
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I'd be shocked if Blind and Smalling played many more games together at centre back than Varane and Martinez TBF. I agree they were the best we have seen but not because of longevity.
 
OverratedOpinion said:
I'd be shocked if Blind and Smalling played many more games together at centre back than Varane and Martinez TBF. I agree they were the best we have seen but not because of longevity.
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According to Transfermarkt Martinez and Varane played 33 matches together for united and shared 2287 mins together.

Smalling and Blind played 103 matches together (only 16 players have appeared in more games with Smalling) and shared 8256 minutes
 
CannibalSpectre said:
According to Transfermarkt Martinez and Varane played 33 matches together for united and shared 2287 mins together.

Smalling and Blind played 103 matches together (only 16 players have appeared in more games with Smalling) and shared 8256 minutes
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Yeah I'd be fascinated to know how many of those had Blind at left back or in midfield. Even Smalling at right back occasionally.

Blind and Smalling played about 75% of a season together as a consistent centre back partnership, I reckon Varane and Martinez are pretty close to that.
 
CannibalSpectre said:
According to Transfermarkt Martinez and Varane played 33 matches together for united and shared 2287 mins together.

Smalling and Blind played 103 matches together (only 16 players have appeared in more games with Smalling) and shared 8256 minutes
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I'm guessing that about half of those Smalling + Blind matches were when Blind was playing in midfield or leftback. I only really remember it being the 15/16 season where they were a steady partnership in central defence.
 
Thanks for the replies so far!

So based on this on paper where do you think De Ligt + Martinez will end up? Or Yoro + Martinez and De Ligt and Yoro?
 
GazTheLegend said:
Your list is completely spot on. Blind completely shutting down Lukaku was a standout moment from any of our centre backs, and he was so elegant alongside Smalling that they just about worked, Maguire and Lindelof got us cl football somehow and worked together very well at times, and even Smalling and Jones when fit were better than many of our pairings last season.
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Yeah, Blind was actually a really underrated player for us, was a really solid player, he formed a great partnership with Smalling under LvG.
 
Cabin Clown said:
Agree with all of this, especially the top 2.

Smalling was always sadly underrated I think.
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He was, became a bit of a scape goat as he looked clumsy on the ball. He also always got lumped in with Jones as unreliable as they were purchased relatively close together.
 
BenitoSTARR said:
Thanks for the replies so far!

So based on this on paper where do you think De Ligt + Martinez will end up? Or Yoro + Martinez and De Ligt and Yoro?
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Who knows. But, it's great to finally have a collection of quality CB options again.
 
BenitoSTARR said:
Thanks for the replies so far!

So based on this on paper where do you think De Ligt + Martinez will end up? Or Yoro + Martinez and De Ligt and Yoro?
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If De Ligt and Licha get a good run of games together then we should have a very reliable partnership there. The worry is the usual one - we get some really bad luck with injuries that wrecks the best laid plans.

Good thing is, Yoro will hopefully be able to come in for plenty of games and stop either fatiguing. We have, of course, already had a bit of a kick in the nuts on that account!
 
BenitoSTARR said:
Thanks for the replies so far!

So based on this on paper where do you think De Ligt + Martinez will end up? Or Yoro + Martinez and De Ligt and Yoro?
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This is a weird one to think of. Strange to think that we actually signed two quality cb's. I wonder if there's any questions over whether we might use all 3 in a 3-5-2 at times but it's never been the case before and I personally don't like it
 
OverratedOpinion said:
.

Blind and Smalling played about 75% of a season together as a consistent centre back partnership, I reckon Varane and Martinez are pretty close to that.
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Do you mean how many matches they played together or performance wise? Don’t think they came pretty close in either of those.

Martinez and Varane started 16 PL matches together 2022/23 (42%).

7 wins
5 draws
4 losses
26 points out of 48

Not sure about cups.
 
A-man said:
Do you mean how many matches they played together or performance wise? Don’t think they came pretty close in either of those.

Martinez and Varane started 16 PL matches together 2022/23 (42%).

7 wins
5 draws
4 losses
26 points out of 48

Not sure about cups.
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Do you have the numbers on goals conceded.

I think a lot of people would be surprised at how few games Licha and Varane played together that season,.
 
Martinez-Varane
Blind-Smalling
Maguire-Varane
Maguire-Lindelof in 19/20 and 20/21
Martinez-Maguire

Think Smalling-Jones partnership looked decent in 17/18. People mentioning Rojo-Jones in 16/17 as well though I don't remember it much.

Having Martinez, Yoro, de Ligt and Maguire as options this season looks great on paper and probably best in years. Even Evans at 36 is great 5th/6th option to have imo.
 
Bobski said:
Do you have the numbers on goals conceded.

I think a lot of people would be surprised at how few games Licha and Varane played together that season,.
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Yes we conceded 25 goals in the 16 games Martinez-Varane started together. However this figure is slightly misleading. In the stats I have, I can’t see if the goals were conceded when both were on the pitch at the same time, I can only see if they started together and the final result. So yes we conceded 25 goals in the 16 matches they started together but as example I know Varane was subbed for the last 3 goals against City so they should be subtracted from that.
 
Oh very funny thread title. Well done I can't pronounce my Rs.
 
OverratedOpinion said:
Yeah I'd be fascinated to know how many of those had Blind at left back or in midfield. Even Smalling at right back occasionally.

Blind and Smalling played about 75% of a season together as a consistent centre back partnership, I reckon Varane and Martinez are pretty close to that.
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MadDogg said:
I'm guessing that about half of those Smalling + Blind matches were when Blind was playing in midfield or leftback. I only really remember it being the 15/16 season where they were a steady partnership in central defence.
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I'm pretty sure Smalling and Blind started more than the 16 PL matches Varane and Martinez did according to the stats presented by @A-man

In 2015-16 Blind was a nailed on starter at CB. It's the position he played the most during his time at united, and he played his most minutes for united during that season.

I have to check, but to my recollection both Blind and Smalling made over 50 appearances in all competitions that season. I can't see Varane and Martinez numbers together at CB coming close

Edit: Smalling appeared 35 times in the league in 2015-16, playing 3150 mins in the PL and 810 in Europe

Blind also had 35 appearances in the league, with 3117 mins there and 837 in Europe
 
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