United...1990s Liverpool re-enacted?
- Thread starter PickledRed
- Start date
Laugh all you want mate but the first sentence is spot, spot on.
It was the end of an era when SAF left. Now it's the start of a new one under Jose.
You hope it's a new start, fact is you can't know right now so shouldn't state is as a simple fact.
If anything, Jose has never started an era anywhere in his career so the past is against you.
No it doesn't, it actually means something. Or are you saying you had a Moyes era as well? Of course you didn't. Benitez was at Liverpool for more than five years and it wasn't an era.
It's basically a period of change/development.
You could say we are in the post Fergie Era if you liked but it doesn't go synonymously with success.
Jose won a league cup after only a few months in charge, is one game away from a European final. He's won the league in two separate stays at Chelsea. I think you could it's safe to say if he's here another two our three years we will win the league. There are no certainties in football. Another good window in the summer and we could win it next year. After Chelsea's disastrous defence last year, not many would have thought they would be in control of it for most of the year.
It was always going to turbulent time after Fergie, the wrong managers set us back a few years but we ain't talking decades. We have the right man in charge now and he'll get it right. The days of one team dominance are over, it will change season to season. You just have look at the last five years in the league, variety of champions and competitors. We have to feck up much more with managerial appointments and transfers to do a Liverpool, I fully believe Jose will bring us back to the top.
It was always going to turbulent time after Fergie, the wrong managers set us back a few years but we ain't talking decades. We have the right man in charge now and he'll get it right. The days of one team dominance are over, it will change season to season. You just have look at the last five years in the league, variety of champions and competitors. We have to feck up much more with managerial appointments and transfers to do a Liverpool, I fully believe Jose will bring us back to the top.
If you go back 12 months earlier to our 1st EC win, Phil Neal was the only player left that also featured in the 1984 final. Paisley inherited a lot of those players in 1977, but he left an even better side when he retired in 1983.
'Too big to fail'. These words normally drive people crazy but they are based on a lot of truth. Once an institution gets to a certain level financially it is almost impossible to bring it down even when you are actively trying. Madrid, Barcelona, Munich and United are just too big to fail. Not because of the fan base or the coaching or the football. Its because they are money making machines and that means a lot in today's world.
Even without champions league, United can still attract players like Zlatan, Di maria and Pogba. Now they have arguably the best manager in the world today. I would argue this is a renaissance. The united of old is gone. No more building of a team patiently using academy players. Woodward and Mourinho will go the Madrid and Mancity way and just buy their way back to the top.
PS. Mourinho will get a Treble here if it kills him and may retire from club football after that.
Even without champions league, United can still attract players like Zlatan, Di maria and Pogba. Now they have arguably the best manager in the world today. I would argue this is a renaissance. The united of old is gone. No more building of a team patiently using academy players. Woodward and Mourinho will go the Madrid and Mancity way and just buy their way back to the top.
PS. Mourinho will get a Treble here if it kills him and may retire from club football after that.
The end of an era happened when Ferguson left United.
I laugh at the criticism that Mourinho now gets from Chelsea fans. One of the most ungrateful group of fans ever seen.
People underestimate the impact the change in the back pass rule had on Liverpool. Those cnuts were notorious for killing games by passing back to their keeper once they got in front. (Younger posters might not realise this but there was a time when keepers could pick up a ball from a back pass from their own team mate, that rule changed in 1992 - join the dots kids).
Thankfully United don't have to contend with a change in the rules like this and thankfully United's success was never built on negative tactics in the way Pool's was. So we'll be alright, we are NOT going to end up like Liverpool.
Thankfully United don't have to contend with a change in the rules like this and thankfully United's success was never built on negative tactics in the way Pool's was. So we'll be alright, we are NOT going to end up like Liverpool.
Of course he has. Chelsea are where they are now because of him, even if he is not there anymore. The Chelsea era lives on.
Then you can't state that United won't return to greatness in the short future as a fact either. In short, we don't know if its the end of an era or the start of a new one.
And yes, obviously having a coach who has won titles everywhere he coached and built teams that kept winning after he was gone is a strong indicator that he will fail at United. Or not.
No, people don't underestimate the impact the rule change had because it's only a selection of bitter Manchester United fans who actually believe that bollocks & use it to play down our achievements. Just in the same way they hate to accept our achievements in Europe at the same time & put it down to everyone else being crap, or the competition format. We were renown for building our play from the back. This involved patient, probing, play, but most importantly, it involved possession. Whereas most sides would have their keeper punt the ball downfield from a pass-back, our keeper would use it to change the angle of play. So if someone like Phil Neal found few options on the right side of the field, he'd knock it back to the keeper who would immediately throw it out to the left-back & the build-up play would start from that side. Hardly revolutionary in today's game, but Liverpool were revolutionary back then, hence the reason we won so much. & as much as it may shock you, Liverpool's goals per game ratio during our dominant period wasn't much different to your wonderful, free-flowing, saviours of football, Manchester United during the Fergie years.
I'm not even criticising Mourinho. I am stating he isn't Ferguson. Ferguson is a once in a lifetime manager, and arguably the best manager in football history. He could turn an average player into a world beater. The stability Utd once had is rare in this era, and it's highly unlikely, if not impossible for a manager to last half that duration, let alone 20+ years. However, my post was slightly tongue in cheek because you're Man Utd and you're never going to become mid table. You will always be challenging for the title, so the concern from Utd fans is highly unnecessary.
Would totally agree with all that. United aren't going to fall off the face of the footballing map anytime soon that's for sure. & even if Mourinho ultimately fails to land a league title or two, they have the pulling power & financial muscle to continue to bring in the best managers & players. Makes me laugh though when our demise is discussed on here. Anyone would think we're currently struggling with the likes of Leeds in getting out of The Championship. We may have been on the fringes over the past 25 plus years, but 2014, & the first part of this season showed that we shouldn't be under-estimated too much. We've never finished lower than 8th for 50 odd years now. I don't see that changing anytime soon either.
Liverpool did use the back pass to time waste in close games. To suggest otherwise is silly.
https://books.google.ie/books?id=Gi...age&q=liverpool backpass time wasting&f=false
Oooooh, have I hit a nerve? Bottom line is there is a direct correlation between the rules changing and Liverpool dominance ending. Unlike some on here I remember watching those Liverpool teams of the 70s and 80s. Goals per game ratios mean f**k all. Liverpool were terrible to watch at times, there used to be games where the ball would move between the CB pair and goalkeeper for entire halves of the game. Liverpool were notorious for that. Then the back pass rule changed and the Liverpool era was over.Worth reading, would love to get a clip of the McMahon one.
https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.the...8/memory-legal-backpasses-jones-souness-dixon
https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.the...8/memory-legal-backpasses-jones-souness-dixon
So you're old enough to remember Dalglish & Rush tearing up defences at home & abroad. & then Kenny's free-scoring Liverpool side of the late 80's. & you'd remember the closest you got to winning the title in the 70's & 80's was back in 1980 when you finished 2 points behind us, yet scored 16 goals less. Sorry if our team kept hold of the ball & never let the opposition have it. But most people accepted us a brilliant footballing side. I'm shocked, not to say disappointed, that you, a Manchester United supporter, thinks otherwise.
A direct correlation
Amazing to see, that some people are still bitter over the Liverpool dominance in the 70s and 80s. You would think, that 25 years of success should be enough to get over it 
I remember it all. And a hated Liverpool even more then than I do now. Mainly because of the crap I had to listen to from their supporters. Some things never change.
So it's written in some obscure book therefore it's gospel ? Yeah OK.
Every side, even in today's game, wastes time when defending a lead in a tight match. We quite often thrashed sides back then so you're assertion that we bored our way to trophies holds no water whatsoever.
A direct correlation
I reckon the exact moment Liverpool's dominance ended was the day ye recorded the Anfield rap. That's when ye started believing your own hype about 'pass and move'. Thankfully FIFA were having none of it.
All anybody has to do is look up games on youtube and you will see Liverpool doing it in half empty stadiums. You couldn't even fill Anfield for most games in the 80s.
24k when you player Birmingham City.
http://www.lfchistory.net/SeasonArchive/Game/1268
20k when you played Watford.
http://www.lfchistory.net/SeasonArchive/Game/1380
etc etc
They changed the rule because of it. Says it all.
Bitter & twisted then ? Thought you'd have gotten over all that by now. I guess some scars never heal.
Yeah I'm really bitter . I love how pointing this back pass thing gets in on Liverpool supporters. As I say it hits a nerve, every time.Because only Liverpool used it to see out certain games, or because it was pretty widespread, & god forbid, even the saviours of football used it once or twice ?
Ah right, so you don't actually believe it then, it's just a wind-up. Well done. You actually come across as a bit too intelligent to believe that crap anyway. Plenty that do though.
Liverpool average atts in the 80s for league games
81: 37K
82: 35K
83: 34K
84: 31K
85: 35K
86: 36K
87: 37K
Half empty stadium for most games as they used the backpass.
http://european-football-statistics.co.uk/attnclub/live.htm
81: 37K
82: 35K
83: 34K
84: 31K
85: 35K
86: 36K
87: 37K
Half empty stadium for most games as they used the backpass.
http://european-football-statistics.co.uk/attnclub/live.htm
Well as you know the Home nations have huge influence over the game.
They have 4 of the 8 positions on the board that decides the rules.
They pretty much changed the rule because of Liverpool.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Football_Association_Board
I am on the wind up yeah but I do think it was a factor in Liverpool's decline. Those dominat Liverpool sides were masterful at stifling teams, particularly in Europe. Of course they had to have the ability on the ball to pass teams to death in midfield in particular but the back pass rule was something Liverpool used to their advantage for years, particularly defending a lead. They were incredibly patient in pulling teams out of position, if that's meant playing it back to the keeper who could allievate pressing tactics, they would do it in a heartbeat. My point is the change in the rules was another factor (along with many many others) that contributed to Liverpool's decline. Thankfully United don't have to contend with a big rule change that was part of the game during their dominat period.
We didn't even fill Anfield when we were playing the great stuff under Dalglish. 33,000 back in November 1987 when we beat Watford 4-0. Or are you saying we were boring even then ?
Liverpool were always boring. Don't let the score lines fool you.
Our decline came about through poor choices in management appointments. Do you think we'd have continued our success if they hadn't changed the rules ? I agree that our possession football must have been a ball-ache for opposition supporters, but the main aim of it wasn't to nullify games, it was to keep hold of the ball until such time an opportunity arose. So as much as you might have hated it, the general consensus of most people involved in the game back then was that Liverpool were very special.
I take back what I said about you being intelligent.