United’s next manager

Bobcat said:
This. Ole deserves to be sacked, but the last thing we need right now is some knee jerk reaction and hire yet another caretaker or yet another manager that get sacked 6-12 months from now. I'd rather finish 17th with Ole as manager and then find a proper replacement to take us forward than to end up 7th with some dinosaur that will get us nowhere

Enough with the half measures. And fecking Ed needs to go now as well. This is the fourth manager that has failed under his watch.
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Managers are getting sacked after 6-12 months because Woodward/the Glazers aren't supporting a managers vision and recognising it takes time. Take Klopp, until last year he'd won feck all. In his first season Liverpool finished 8th, in his second Liverpool finished 4th. If that was the record of a Utd manager then they'd have been sacked. Did Liverpool sack Klopp? No, and they're reaping the benefits now.

As for your second point, have the managers failed under Woodward, or has Woodward failed the managers?
 
The DoF is the important thing. We should put Poch in if he's available
 
Sir Scott McToMinay said:
Paul Scholes couldn’t have been more different than Guardiola personality-wise.
He couldn’t make it as the manager of Oldham ffs, do you hate the club or something?
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I'm just not sure that hiring another version of Van Gaal or Mourinho would be the right answer.
 
Forget the next manager, I’m curious as to who the next next manager will be. And the one after that too. Exciting times ahead.
 
Allegri is a good shout. I think we will need someone with his pedigree or Poch. People also undermine a players mentality in the perception they have of manager's. I cannot think of any one player in their right mind who would want to play under a manager who's biggest highlight is relegating Cardiff. Atleast with Allegri we will be able to bring in a certain calibre of player that can propel the team. The likes of James is as good as you'll get with Solskjaer which is telling given he came from the championship. There's unfortunately not a James at every club beneath the league.
 
JK-27 said:
Did Liverpool sack Klopp? No, and they're reaping the benefits now.
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But Klopp had a system in place. It was clear what football he wants to play, he needed time to improve squad and getting players accustomed to the system. Let alone the fact that Klopp was a proven manager. OGS doesn't have any system at all, on the contrary - so there are no reasons to believe things will change for the better.

De Gea, for example, has no idea what is going on, based on his interview (which, perhaps, mean that other players also don't have this understanding).
 
I only want Poch if his relationship with Eriksen is still good so he can make my wet dream of approx. 6 years a reality. I'd even let him take a red card for punching Vertongen in a game if the rumors are true.
 
ExSalfordRed said:
Julian Nagelsmann looks like the next top drawer coach for me, has an attacking philosophy. All depends on the support he or any manager is going to get from the board....
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sullydnl said:
Naglesmann would be the best hope from what I've seen of him, on the basis that we need a young manager with a clear vision of attacking football and how to implement it in the modern game. Someone we can at least hope is a generational talent of such quality as to drag us from this abyss.

As opposed to a manager who wants to play attacking football but doesn't know how to, a pragmatic results -first manager who is suspicious of attacking football, a long past his best manager with a sterile football philosophy or David Moyes. Less of all of that, please.

Though it doesn't really matter who we appoint if everything above him remains the same.
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He only took over at RB Leipzig in June so that one looks a no go. We desperately need someone with an attacking philosophy and coaching acumen right now. The problem is the only available candidate right now is a defensive manager.
 
Adnan said:
Was this summer a case of Ole being happy with what he's got, due not being able to sign his first choice targets?

If that was the case, then he blundered massively by showing the door to Sanchez, Lukaku, Smalling etc without having adequate replacements.
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Yeah I didn't have a problem with them leaving provided we got in replacements,unfortunately it looks like that was never gonna happen and now we are paper thin.
 
golden_blunder said:
If we’re talking caretaker then Gus hiddink?

Perm I’d like to see a young progressive manager. I’ve never been totally sold on Poch
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Yeah I could get on board with Hiddink as a caretaker manager,he saw Chelsea through to the end of that 08/09 season after Scolari was sacked.
 
JK-27 said:
Managers are getting sacked after 6-12 months because Woodward/the Glazers aren't supporting a managers vision and recognising it takes time. Take Klopp, until last year he'd won feck all. In his first season Liverpool finished 8th, in his second Liverpool finished 4th. If that was the record of a Utd manager then they'd have been sacked. Did Liverpool sack Klopp? No, and they're reaping the benefits now.

As for your second point, have the managers failed under Woodward, or has Woodward failed the managers?
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Alemar said:
But Klopp had a system in place. It was clear what football he wants to play, he needed time to improve squad and getting players accustomed to the system. Let alone the fact that Klopp was a proven manager. OGS doesn't have any system at all, on the contrary - so there are no reasons to believe things will change for the better.

De Gea, for example, has no idea what is going on, based on his interview (which, perhaps, mean that other players also don't have this understanding).
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Yeah I think De Gea's words are a strong indication that the players really cannot understand what Ole wants them to do.
 
JK-27 said:
Managers are getting sacked after 6-12 months because Woodward/the Glazers aren't supporting a managers vision and recognising it takes time. Take Klopp, until last year he'd won feck all. In his first season Liverpool finished 8th, in his second Liverpool finished 4th. If that was the record of a Utd manager then they'd have been sacked. Did Liverpool sack Klopp? No, and they're reaping the benefits now.

As for your second point, have the managers failed under Woodward, or has Woodward failed the managers?
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Klopp without a transfer window had Liverpool score the 2nd most goals. In the 2nd half of that season, Liverpool were tops in goals scored under Klopp. So from that statistic alone you can say that Klopp improved the team in attack and it wasn't a new managerial bounce. Ole was the opposite where the last part of the season saw his side score so few goals, it was pathetic. Klopp from the get go imprinted his vision onto the team. They were playing exciting football. The problem with the results was a lack of defense. He got them to the final of the League Cup and Europa League final apart from the league.

Ole has shown no signs of attacking football. It's not a matter of simply seeing his plan, but a bad touch or something causes his football not to work. For example, Pep was getting criticized in his first season and the media kept telling him "you can't do that in the PL" because his players hadn't come to terms with playing out from the back. However, make no mistake, you could clearly see what he wanted out of his side. That's not happening with Ole. Its not a case of simply getting bad results. It's a case of seeing nothing to be hopeful for.
 
JK-27 said:
Managers are getting sacked after 6-12 months because Woodward/the Glazers aren't supporting a managers vision and recognising it takes time. Take Klopp, until last year he'd won feck all. In his first season Liverpool finished 8th, in his second Liverpool finished 4th. If that was the record of a Utd manager then they'd have been sacked. Did Liverpool sack Klopp? No, and they're reaping the benefits now.

As for your second point, have the managers failed under Woodward, or has Woodward failed the managers?
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So why does it happen at other clubs as well? Are the glazers and Woodward's sitting on their boards too?
 
In Rainbows said:
Klopp without a transfer window had Liverpool score the 2nd most goals. In the 2nd half of that season, Liverpool were tops in goals scored under Klopp. So from that statistic alone you can say that Klopp improved the team in attack and it wasn't a new managerial bounce. Ole was the opposite where the last part of the season saw his side score so few goals, it was pathetic. Klopp from the get go imprinted his vision onto the team. They were playing exciting football. The problem with the results was a lack of defense. He got them to the final of the League Cup and Europa League final apart from the league.

Ole has shown no signs of attacking football. It's not a matter of simply seeing his plan, but a bad touch or something causes his football not to work. For example, Pep was getting criticized in his first season and the media kept telling him "you can't do that in the PL" because his players hadn't come to terms with playing out from the back. However, make no mistake, you could clearly see what he wanted out of his side. That's not happening with Ole. Its not a case of simply getting bad results. It's a case of seeing nothing to be hopeful for.
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You can even add Lampard to that list as a smaller-sampled case. He started poorly against us with the 4-0, though easily could have started out 0-2 in the first half, and now his side looks like they have an identity. And they lost their best player from last year and have a team that isn't full of top quality except for maybe Kante.
 
Get someone like Nagelsmann, Rose, Ten Haag, etc...

Marco Rose's first season outside of Austria has him top of the table of the Bundesliga. Might be completely different in a month or two, but he's one to keep track of.
 
lsd said:
Winning a one team league playing terrible football doesn't make you a born winner
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JK-27 said:
Define 'success everywhere'? Prior to Juve he'd been sacked by AC Milan and Cagliari. And at Juve he took over a team who had already won the league championship 3 seasons in a row. He's not exactly 'built' a winning team.
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He won serie c in his first proper job, was loved at cagliari and gave them their best season in decades on a shoe string and won 6 titles with Milan and juventus. Regardless of his juventus success being expected, he did it comprehensively.
 
No reason to be afraid of managerial change.

Since 1986 (When SAF became our manager):
Real Madrid appointed 32 managers.
Barcelona appointed 20 managers.
Bayern appointed 22 managers.
Juventus appointed 21 managers.
 
Any manager coming in during this international break, assuming that is what happens, will have the whole of November and December to try and steady the ship as much as possible (although I'm getting the image of a small rowboat that's already begun its plunge over a waterfall). Then January, where...nothing will happen. We'll get the same lines about players not being available.

We're running Rashford into the ground because the alternative is a teenager. Pogba is our only midfielder with any creativity about him. David De Gea has sunk into a pit of despair, and probably screams at an image of a fax machine every night before he goes to sleep. We're a sinking ship, and Woodward is reclining clueless on a sunlounger on deck.
 
Bring in LVG as a caretaker till the end of the season. We can evaluate who is available at the end of the season all the while sounding out potential candidates. Poch, Tuchel, Nagelsmann might be available or tempted.

I don't want the Ole situation repeating itself with someone like Giggs, Carrick or Blanc as care taker manager. LVG is retired and no one would want him to be permanent no matter how he does. He is very good at getting young players to perform well which is all we have at the moment. He was also able to arrest the relegation form we had in his last season to a respectable finish with an FA cup. Most importantly he will also play Young as a striker where he can't cross any balls in so that is a win-win.
 
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The question itself is a big part of the problem.

It should be ‘United’s next Head Coach’.
 
Sir Scott McToMinay said:
No reason to be afraid of managerial change.

Since 1986 (When SAF became our manager):
Real Madrid appointed 32 managers.
Barcelona appointed 20 managers.
Bayern appointed 22 managers.
Juventus appointed 21 managers.
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May people pointed that ferguson almost got the sack and the rest is history, but people forget if we dont have the guts to sack atkinson fergie wouldnt have happened
 
Allegri, Pochettino, Bielsa, Nagelsmann, Blanc (caretaker). Just a few who might be attainable.
 
If the club want to continue down the line of signing up and coming players and mostly home grown then find a DoF who is happy to do that. Changing the manager should not lead to a change in the clubs long term vision and policy. OGS might be on board with the current recruitment plan but he's shown himself to be massively lacking as a coach.

When you become the manager of Barcelona, you're told to bring players through the academy, no matter what managerial credentials you have.

When you take the Bayern job you're told to snap up all the best homegrown talent in the Bundesliga.

The long term ideas at the big clubs do not dramatically change, while we are making complete 180's every couple of years. We must get someone in who enforces one long term club vision, then find a great coach to bring that vision to life.

Ed Woodward doesn't have the vision and OGS does not have the coaching ability. That means hiring Pochettino alone will not solve our problems. He would improve the team we have now because he's a better coach, but he is only suitable if his ideas sync up with someone above him. Of course we first have to find someone to fill that role.
 
Does anyone with more of a clue than me think that Rose or Nagelsmann would be available / possibly interested come the end of the season?

Nagelsmann seems terrific but nailed on for future Bayern manager to me. Rose, I have no clue.

Outside of that any other options for forward thinking, attacking minded managers to come in and sort out this dumpster fire we find ourselves enveloped in?
 
Sir Scott McToMinay said:
No reason to be afraid of managerial change.

Since 1986 (When SAF became our manager):
Real Madrid appointed 32 managers.
Barcelona appointed 20 managers.
Bayern appointed 22 managers.
Juventus appointed 21 managers.
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Our supporters because of SAF think the exceptional is the normal, nothing wrong with changing even good managers after a period if better one becomes available.
 
Matt007a said:
If the club want to continue down the line of signing up and coming players and mostly home grown then find a DoF who is happy to do that. Changing the manager should not lead to a change in the clubs long term vision and policy. OGS might be on board with the current recruitment plan but he's shown himself to be massively lacking as a coach.

When you become the manager of Barcelona, you're told to bring players through the academy, no matter what managerial credentials you have.

When you take the Bayern job you're told to snap up all the best homegrown talent in the Bundesliga.

The long term ideas at the big clubs do not dramatically change, while we are making complete 180's every couple of years. We must get someone in who enforces one long term club vision, then find a great coach to bring that vision to life.

Ed Woodward doesn't have the vision and OGS does not have the coaching ability. That means hiring Pochettino alone will not solve our problems. He would improve the team we have now because he's a better coach, but he is only suitable if his ideas sync up with someone above him. Of course we first have to find someone to fill that role.
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It's a nice idea but where is the evidence that our academy will produce 4/5 players who are ultimately good enough for the first team? It's common knowledge that city and chelsea have been miles ahead in this department for the last few years.

Then on other british talents we pay an absolute premium. Where is the evidence (or even a case study) that this will be successful long term?
 
MUFC OK said:
It's a nice idea but where is the evidence that our academy will produce 4/5 players who are ultimately good enough for the first team? It's common knowledge that city and chelsea have been miles ahead in this department for the last few years.

Then on other british talents we pay an absolute premium. Where is the evidence (or even a case study) that this will be successful long term?
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I don't disagree with that, but seemingly that is the way the club want to go at the moment. It's the example I was using, but it doesn't have to be the exact way it's done. I think signing up and coming players is a good strategy if you ignore the homegrown part though. I'm not talking about 18/19 year old kids who are still learning, but players who are right on the verge of breaking through.

Players like VVD, Salah, Mane would all fit into those categories. We could all see they were about to make the jump up, but Liverpool made sure to sign them just before it happened. Man City did the same thing with Bernardo Silva, De Bruyne etc.

All of that requires proactive planning though. That is where we need a DoF to come in and make that happen before the manager is changed. Then you have the top class coach below him, who is briefed on the vision during his interview, turning those players into world beaters.
 
JK-27 said:
Managers are getting sacked after 6-12 months because Woodward/the Glazers aren't supporting a managers vision and recognising it takes time. Take Klopp, until last year he'd won feck all. In his first season Liverpool finished 8th, in his second Liverpool finished 4th. If that was the record of a Utd manager then they'd have been sacked. Did Liverpool sack Klopp? No, and they're reaping the benefits now.

As for your second point, have the managers failed under Woodward, or has Woodward failed the managers?
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Woodward would never sack anyone if United finished 4th on average, mate.
Klopp reached two finals in his first season and never finished outside of top 4 since. Woodward didn't sack Jose when he finished 6th and won 3 trophies in his first season either but I like that you ignored that part because it fits your agenda. Carry on
 
First port of call is clearly a good, proven DOF like Campos, Berta, Paratici/Marotta, Zorc (unlikely to leave Dortmund but might for big money), Ragnick/Mitchell or Overmars. Webber of Norwich seems another good option if we want someone UK based.

For me, we need to go all out for the next big thing in management and grow with them. I think many of us fans will be prepared to be patient if we see progress, exciting football and a clear strategy in place. I think Ole's been implementing a culture change and the transfers in were pretty good this Summer, albeit there certainly weren't enough and more deadwood needed shifting before they further depreciated in value. However, on the pitch, there really doesn't seem to be any discernible plan manifesting and I can't really think of any player that's improved besides McTominay. I also don't feel Solskjaer has shown enough prior to taking the wheel. I'd hope he goes before the huge amount of affection we hold for him is tarnished irreparably.

Nagelsmann is the outstanding candidate in my view. He'll be hard to shift out of RB Leipzig; especially so soon after taking the reigns. Graham Potter of Brighton interests me a lot. I like Eddie Howe but Bournemouth are far too frequently trounced for my liking and I worry about his ability to organise a defence. Ten Hag is an obvious candidate. Marco Rose is exciting and Gladbach are top of the Bundesliga so far. However, I'm unsure about his preferred formation (very centrally heavy with a midfield diamond I believe).

A few under the radar options -
Philippe Clement: Started management career very impressively at Waasland-Beveren. Led Genk to 2 consecutive league titles before moving to Club Brugge where he's currently top of the league and forced Real Madrid to a draw. Has played in England for Coventry.
Joao Pedro Sousa: Arguably the brains behind Marco Silva's rise. Now he's gone solo to manage Famalicao, Silva is failing. However, Famalicao are so far currently undefeated and top of the Portuguese league above Porto and Benfica.
Diego Martinez: The 38 year old has surprisingly led Granada into La Liga and now up to 4th
Mark van Bommel: Took PSV to 3 points off an incredible Ajax team last season and now is neck on neck with them points wise with IMHO a far weaker squad
Adi Hutter: Frankfurt manager. Took them to 7th last year and the EL Final. Led Young Boys to their first Swiss league title in 32 years. Won the double at Salzburg. Took Grodig to the Europa League. A very strong managerial record.
 
Un4givableB said:
Our supporters because of SAF think the exceptional is the normal, nothing wrong with changing even good managers after a period if better one becomes available.
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Or even if the current one tenure starts to become a bit stale. Unless you're Alex Ferguson, eventually you're effect on a group of players is going to wear. Its happening with Poch at Spurs now, so a change if managed correctly is perfectly fine.
 
Literally we have tried everything except the German "hipster" route and funny enough two of the best up and coming coaches in world football are in Nagelsmann and Marco Rose, who prior to us sacking Mourinho I said would be an outstanding choice to take over at United and my opinion has not changed with his Monchengladbach side top of the Bundesliga.

Saying that I'd be happy with literally anyone, even Rodgers would have a style that would get us playing some sort of football even though he's a tosser but he knows how to coach a side.
 
Rory 7 said:
The way things have gone I wouldn’t be surprised to see Benitez managing us next.
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Said before he'd never manage United. While his temporary stint at Chelsea surprised people given the acrimonious history I think he'll keep to his word on this one.
 
Are people seriously comparing Klopps initial times at Liverpool with Ole's time here?Get a grip - Klopps style was very evident from day 1. Gen -gen press was done with their average players.

Everyone of us will wait if we see a pattern in our game play. We will keep changing the managers until we see that as well. I am still thinking we shouldn't have sacked LVG . At least we should have waited until we had a better options available with the same style.
 
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