UK General Election - 12th December 2019 | Con 365, Lab 203, LD 11, SNP 48, Other 23 - Tory Majority of 80
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I have mixed feelings about Sturgeon (though I am planning on moving to Edinburgh and going full Scots Nats) but her reaction to that was very funny.Swinson losing was fecking glorious, a saving grace on a grim night.
Yeah this was probably the least enthused I'd ever felt voting SNP, record in Holyrood's feeling incredibly mixed in certain respects, but still feel like by far the most competent of the bunch up here, and was made doubly funny by Swinson's seat being the only one they lost...on a night where they even gained a Scottish seat!
Freedland nails it
"All the estimates" suggests there's a lot of info on this that will easily support your claims...care to share them?
Which is very dangerous and leaves people open to manipulation.
Especially when combined with the fact that the real history of Britain is quite dark in places, rarely taught and the atrocities of the empire are glossed over. Most people in England have a rose tinted view of Britain and its history.
I don't mind this idea if it means a national insurance that everyone pays into like they have in German. The trouble is Tories would always favour the private option.
Freedman really doesn’t - I’ve never read such a load of garbage in all my life.
Starts by correctly stating that people rejected Corbyn. No issue with that. But why did they reject Corbyn? The same reason they have rejected every slightly left of centre Labour leader - the press absolutely annihilated him at every single opportunity.
So what Freedman is basically advocating is that the Labour Party needs to exist purely as a Tory-lite vassal if it ever wants to get elected. Any increases in tax, promises to invest in public services or increase the minimum wage are absolutely out of the question.
So my question is to Freedman, what’s the point? Shift to the right to get elected and then change absolutely nothing?
See, I actually know some “proper” working class people, unlike people like Freedman.
They didn’t get out of bed on Thursday morning to reject an increase in income tax for the richest 5% or a small increase in corporation tax. Many of them don’t really understand or care about Nationalisation (other than a few may “understand” it’s bad because the Sun told them so). They didn’t vote against a Green Industrial revolution.
They got out of bed on Thursday morning to “get Brexit done” and keep that lying, anti-Semitic, terrorist-sympathising, Jihadi-loving, Marxist, Communist, Queen-hating, security threatening racist out of power and give loveable rogue Boris his mandate.
I fully understand someone will be quick to label me part of the problem - well I’m not making excuses here. If you’re not appealing to these people you’ve got to get out and change that. You know the press will vilify anything a hare’s breath left of centre so your candidates/MPs need to be all over their local communities, proving they’re not the monsters the papers say they are.
If you want to come on and tell me I’m wrong feel free to do so, but go and canvass opinion in my hometown in Derbyshire, ex mining community, or many of the thousands like it, then tell me again what you think. Guarantee you’ll get a rundown of “the Sun’s greatest hits”
I did read that article and I think she is right in the sense that the way 'working class' is defined is so outdated as to be ridiculous. Where I didn't agree is the notion that the Labour is the natural home of the working classes defined as people in unskilled, low-paid work just because it offers to protect working rights.
I know Chris and he would have made a fantastic constituency mp for the town.
I genuinely despise my fellow Barrovians who believed the bullshit of Corbyn cancelling the Dreadnought programme which carried a lot of votes in this election. We have some of the worst child poverty in the North West, a hospital trust at breaking point which is never out of the news afyer failing after failing and food banks which are at bursting point. This "I'm alright Jack and feck everyone else" is depressing.
My 1 hope is Labour treat this a watershed moment and get their act together although with the party being so fragmented I'm not overly hopeful of that tbh.
I voted for him as well. He came across really well. This is a Cecil Franks moment again. I hope this doesn't put him off. I agree about the I'm alright Jack scenario. Think there is a bigger middle class now and they want to stay there, so spreading fear easily influences them to think about themselves.
There were 13,000 redundancies in the yard under Franks and a tory government when the it's always thrived under a Labour government and mp. Its just... Aargh bollocks, I give up, I really do DT, I'm dreading the next 5 years and fully expect the already wide gap of those who have and those who don't to grow massively, not just in Barra but across the country. I mean come on Boris fecking Johnson ffs.
Agreed. I have to speak to quite a few people per day on issues such as politics, based on my job. Almost all conservative voters I spoke to were voting for brexit and stopping Corbyn’s extremism. None of them mentioned anything about the manifestos, not saying they didn’t know anything about them, but it clearly wasn’t a big issue for them.
I have a friend who grew up on the same council estate as me, it was recently named as one of the most poverty stricken areas in the UK. His mum and dad both worked full time, dad being ex army, not sure why he left/pension claims, but I’m sure they were receiving some form of child benefits too. He must know full well the issues parents have trying live with children on minimum wage jobs, yet he’s voted conservative. I can’t get my head around it.
On the protesting comments above, are they not just protesting against Boris? It’s nothing to do with the election results or “wanting another vote because they lost”, just the fact that our prime minister is a massive racist. Are we at point now where the majority of people think we shouldn’t have the right to protest that?
They haven’t let anyone down. Fecking Turkeys have just voted for Christmas.
I tend to agree.
Labour is historically unpopular. I think it is a massive error to assume the policies weren’t part of the result. And the left is only saying it because it helps them rationalise the outcome- the same kind of soft thinking that got labour into this mess. It has to be challenged IMO.
Again “it was the press” is a story the left tells itself to avoid asking difficult questions about the true popularity of their programme. Again, it is a type of avoidance that has to be challenged.
100% this. Their ideological bent will continue to see them lose again and again until they understand everyone who disagrees with them is not a racist, homophobe, sexist et al. You see it time and again, even within this thread the only people showing intolerance for other groups see themselves as maligned and victimised all the while clearly displaying disdain for groups of people.. The cognitive dissonance is astounding. It drove me from labour and clearer I was not alone.
Yep. The policies were popular. The barrier was the brexit policy and the dislike of Corbyn due to the consistent negative media coverage influencing mainly low and medium engagement voters.
The problem is that that negative media coverage will likely persist for any Labour leader who is not centre or centre right. It is imperative for Labour to find a way to manoeuvre around that.
Its really not. It’s a challenge you have overcome, sure. I agree there is also little point moaning about it since it’s always been the way and always will be the way
However, to suggest the press doesn’t have a huge impact is clearly wrong. What Labour have to do is pull their socks up and figure out how to combat that without pandering to them
Yes, because you really have the best interest of the Labour party at heart. Come off it.
See my previous post above for more detail.
Totally agree. You said it better than I did.
Labour was crushed.. How can the takeaway from that, be anything to do with popularity? Your message was spectacularly murdered by the electorate and your first reaction is to shoot the messenger.
Not all people that dont
Go and look at the demographics and tell me again there’s no mandate for Labours policies. There clearly is amongst under 40s and those with college/University educations
Are we going to allow our Politics to be dictated to us by the lowest common denominator?
No, they weren't.
If somebody says let's give everybody in the country a million pounds, of course everyone will say brilliant.
Ask them if it's a good idea to give everyone in the country a million pounds, and most will say no.
In isolation the Labour policies were popular. Bundled together people realised they were unrealistic.
See my post above
Man at work has been asking us all to donate toys for children who won’t get anything on Christmas Day this year. He donates to Oldham.
He stands there with a tear in his eye (genuinely, he’s a nice man) talking about how Oldham expect to have 40,000 donated presents this year. They’d need 56,000 if everyone who needed one was to get a toy.
He has been doing it for five years. Talks about how every year it has gotten worse and worse, more and more kids needing them. Asking what’s wrong in society.
Voted Tory of course.
He stands there with a tear in his eye (genuinely, he’s a nice man) talking about how Oldham expect to have 40,000 donated presents this year. They’d need 56,000 if everyone who needed one was to get a toy.
He has been doing it for five years. Talks about how every year it has gotten worse and worse, more and more kids needing them. Asking what’s wrong in society.
Voted Tory of course.
"The trend line is the same". If you ignore the sharp increase after the Brexit campaign.
That will give minorities some solace while they are on the receiving end of hate crime, I'm sure.
You need to win over people like me if you want a majority. So how about listening to what people like me have been saying, for once?
If only there was some way to change it. I just don't know what we can do.
You are wasting your breath.
Welcome to Scotland. Good choice of city too. Other Scottish cities that I would recommend would be...
... actually, that's probably it.
What exactly is the "lowest common denominator" you speak of?....... Deary me I give up. Politics are dictated by democracy, it's not that difficult to understand and you don't need a degree in media studies to get it either.
I did. I don’t agree (a) because it doesn’t matter what the polls say about labours popularity in the aftermath of such a wipeout (b) perhaps individual policies were popular but the overall impression of the programme, taken together, clearly was not. Your post smacks of the same kind of wishful thinking about the electorate that got you into this mess.
Ha! Can we please stop with the over dramatic language. It's like reading a badly written Daily Mail article.
Of course it has to do with popularity. Its populism, just like Trump. Strange for you to think an election result has nothing to do with popularity of a leader.
Mate, change the record. I’ve been arguing corbyn was unelectable against people like you for years and they didn’t listen. However if you think changing the leader is enough by itself, that the manifesto was this eagle of popularity being held down by the ball and chain of corbyn (c) Daily Mail, you will get wiped out again.
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