UK airport expansion: third runway at Heathrow receives government approval.

Given the population density of southern England and its increase in recent years, expansions was only becoming more necessary by the years. The potential catchment area must include upwards of 25 million people at a guess.

Equally, investment in in the transportation infrastructure in the Midlands the North East is also required, and could do much to improve the economies local to both. The North West is, at least politically, increasingly part of a policy duopoly alongside London.
 
rcoobc said:
Why not? To every problem there is a solution.
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A big part of an airline's business is connecting passengers. All the major alliances are at Heathrow, not Gatwick. You would literally have to convince an entire alliance to move to Gatwick in one go.
 
Nick 0208 Ldn said:
Gatwick with a high-speed spur connecting with the Channel Tunnel would have been something worth considering i'd have thought.

Using T5 i've gone from aircraft to a taxi in 20-25mins, which as very impressive (particularly with baggage reclaim as well). But Stansted used to offer the most hassle-free and enjoyable travelling experience, at least compared to anywhere else i'd been
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Stansted is a pain to get to though and the train there costs a packet. I don't fly Ryanair though (barring no other option).
 
11101 said:
A big part of an airline's business is connecting passengers. All the major alliances are at Heathrow, not Gatwick. You would literally have to convince an entire alliance to move to Gatwick in one go.
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Yeah. The only way to do it would be to get a fast train service direct between Gatwick and Heathrow, and then rebrand them London West (Heathrow) and London South (Gatwick).

Imagine it.

You land in London West (Heathrow) speaking not a word of English. You look at your ticket, it says "London South (Gatwick) Terminal 2". You follow signs saying "London South (Gatwick) ->". They take you to a shuttle-train saying "London South (Gatwick) Shuttle". You get on the train, it takes you to London South (Gatwick). You get off, and find terminal 2.
 
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rcoobc said:
Yeah. The only way to do it would be to get a fast train service direct between Gatwick and Heathrow, and then rebrand them London East (Heathrow) and London South (Gatwick).

Imagine it.

You land in London East (Heathrow) speaking not a word of English. You look at your ticket, it says "London South (Gatwick) Terminal 2". You follow signs saying "London South (Gatwick) ->". They take you to a train saying "London South (Gatwick)". You get on the train, it takes you to London South (Gatwick). You get off, and find terminal 2.
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The rail link has been talked about for years. It would cost a fortune and even in the concept stage a bunch of airlines have come out and said no way they would move.
 
rcoobc said:
Yeah. The only way to do it would be to get a fast train service direct between Gatwick and Heathrow, and then rebrand them London East (Heathrow) and London South (Gatwick).

Imagine it.

You land in London East (Heathrow) speaking not a word of English. You look at your ticket, it says "London South (Gatwick) Terminal 2". You follow signs saying "London South (Gatwick) ->". They take you to a train saying "London South (Gatwick)". You get on the train, it takes you to London South (Gatwick). You get off, and find terminal 2.
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Heathrow is west.
 
11101 said:
The rail link has been talked about for years. It would cost a fortune and even in the concept stage a bunch of airlines have come out and said no way they would move.
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Yeah, but it's the logical solution. I'm not really asking them to move, I'm asking them to use both like it's one massive airport. They can share costs by using the new rail for either a National Rail route.
adexkola said:
How?
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Well, more planes over the skies of london, often stuck in a holding pattern when there is an incident at Heathrow. (Making the worlds sixth busiest airport, quite literally over London, even busier)

Not only that but the new runway would either cross the M25 (meaning the M25 would have to go underneath the runway) - Source 1, 2, 3

And/or would run parallel to the M4 (and crossing the M4)
 
rcoobc said:
It's been a long day!
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Sorry to be a pedant! Yeah, I know what you mean- I slept in and turned up an hour and 10 minutes late, so not sure I'll get much sympathy off my colleagues though.
 
rcoobc said:
Yeah, but it's the logical solution. I'm not really asking them to move, I'm asking them to use both like it's one massive airport. They can share costs by using the new rail for either a National Rail route.


Well, more planes over the skies of london, often stuck in a holding pattern when there is an incident at Heathrow. (Making the worlds sixth busiest airport, quite literally over London, even busier)

Not only that but the new runway would either cross the M25 (meaning the M25 would have to go underneath the runway) - Source 1, 2, 3

And/or would run parallel to the M4 (and crossing the M4)
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Surely any airport expansion would increase air traffic, whether it's at Heathrow or Gatwick? Any extra capacity created will eventually be filled up.

My initial question was related to highways being placed under runways. It's quite common in many airports and I don't think there have been any accidents related to this feature.
 
adexkola said:
Surely any airport expansion would increase air traffic, whether it's at Heathrow or Gatwick? Any extra capacity created will eventually be filled up.

My initial question was related to highways being placed under runways. It's quite common in many airports and I don't think there have been any accidents related to this feature.
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Yeah, but Gatwick is a fair chunk outside of London, whereas Heathrow is right on top of it. Having three terminals in one place means 50% additional planes holding in the skies above london. (I presume)

Sorry I meant that as two separate drawbacks; 1) The runway would cross the fecking M25, so that's a massive cost. 2) Probably increase the chance of a major accident due to high traffic in the skies, and closeness to M25, M4 and London in general.
 
rcoobc said:
Yeah, but Gatwick is a fair chunk outside of London, whereas Heathrow is right on top of it. Having three terminals in one place means 50% additional planes holding in the skies above london. (I presume)

Sorry I meant that as two separate drawbacks; 1) The runway would cross the fecking M25, so that's a massive cost. 2) Probably increase the chance of a major accident due to high traffic in the skies, and closeness to M25, M4 and London in general.
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Ah, gotcha.
 
adexkola said:
My initial question was related to highways being placed under runways. It's quite common in many airports and I don't think there have been any accidents related to this feature.
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yeah its relatively straight forwards... but its typically the taxiways etc for safety reasons that you do it with - but its just a bridge the loading off a plane is not that bad
It causes some additional hassles in construction but only the same as working on live roads building close to rail lines etc - nothing insurmountable... you will probably require some temporary haul bridges over the existing network during construction phase but again nothing new there - the likes of hs2 and the current road widening programmes will almost certainly need far more than heathrow would.
 
rcoobc said:
Yeah, but Gatwick is a fair chunk outside of London, whereas Heathrow is right on top of it. Having three terminals in one place means 50% additional planes holding in the skies above london. (I presume)

Sorry I meant that as two separate drawbacks; 1) The runway would cross the fecking M25, so that's a massive cost. 2) Probably increase the chance of a major accident due to high traffic in the skies, and closeness to M25, M4 and London in general.
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If you started in central London, say Oxford or Piccadilly Circus, I'm sure it'd be pretty close on timings to get to Heathrow or Gatwick. I only ever use the Heathrow Express on work trips, as I can expense. It is the most expensive railway journey per mile in the world.
 
Scholesy said:
For anyone that's been to heathrow airport?
How big is it? Ive only ever been to Edinburgh airport
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Probably about five times the size- Edinburgh only has one terminal doesn't it? It is absolutely huge.
 
Jippy said:
If you started in central London, say Oxford or Piccadilly Circus, I'm sure it'd be pretty close on timings to get to Heathrow or Gatwick. I only ever use the Heathrow Express on work trips, as I can expense. It is the most expensive railway journey per mile in the world.
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google maps says using public transport from oxford circus
32 mins to heathrow
46 mins to gatwick
driving 45 mins to heathrow
driving 1 hour 32 mins to gatwick
 
sun_tzu said:
google maps says using public transport from oxford circus
32 mins to heathrow
46 mins to gatwick
driving 45 mins to heathrow
driving 1 hour 32 mins to gatwick
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But with the nice new super-fast gatwick-heathrow express train, it will be quicker than that :)

A new crystal white shuttle train looking something like this

VAJrDGa.png
 
Jippy said:
If you started in central London, say Oxford or Piccadilly Circus, I'm sure it'd be pretty close on timings to get to Heathrow or Gatwick. I only ever use the Heathrow Express on work trips, as I can expense. It is the most expensive railway journey per mile in the world.
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No idea how they get away with it...was just reading if you buy tickets 90 days or before they're about £5. They need to sort it out.
 
Factoring in cross rail it does seem fairly self evident that its going to be Heathrow.

I still dont buy the capacity arguments, yeah you might be able to fly to some random emerging market cities direct but i doubt there's huge unmet demand. Why stop at 3? Make a fourth while we're at it and fly to Tuvalu
 
Smores said:
Factoring in cross rail it does seem fairly self evident that its going to be Heathrow.

I still dont buy the capacity arguments, yeah you might be able to fly to some random emerging market cities direct but i doubt there's huge unmet demand. Why stop at 3? Make a fourth while we're at it and fly to Tuvalu
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I think they will actually go ahead with heathrow and either gatwick or an additional at stanstead (probably gatwick)
 
Smores said:
Factoring in cross rail it does seem fairly self evident that its going to be Heathrow.

I still dont buy the capacity arguments, yeah you might be able to fly to some random emerging market cities direct but i doubt there's huge unmet demand. Why stop at 3? Make a fourth while we're at it and fly to Tuvalu
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Well there is no reason for Heathrow to be a transport hub at all. It doesn't benefit the UK, other than for pilot-fish like subsidiary services. How does someone travelling from LA to Wroclaw benefit the average Briton?
 
Smores said:
Factoring in cross rail it does seem fairly self evident that its going to be Heathrow.

I still dont buy the capacity arguments, yeah you might be able to fly to some random emerging market cities direct but i doubt there's huge unmet demand. Why stop at 3? Make a fourth while we're at it and fly to Tuvalu
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It's already being strangled by capacity constraints. Look at how little Heathrow has grown compared to similar airports in the last decade or so.
 
rcoobc said:
Well there is no reason for Heathrow to be a transport hub at all. It doesn't benefit the UK, other than for pilot-fish like subsidiary services. How does someone travelling from LA to Wroclaw benefit the average Briton?
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Weird thing to say. Expanding airprots are very beneficial. They create more jobs, money, and tourism. Part of the reason London's is one of the two most important cities in the world is due to the fact that it has the biggest transport hub in the world.
 
sun_tzu said:
google maps says using public transport from oxford circus
32 mins to heathrow
46 mins to gatwick
driving 45 mins to heathrow
driving 1 hour 32 mins to gatwick
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No way you'd get to Heathrow in 32 minutes without using the rip-off Heathrow Express. On the Piccadilly line it would take an hour or so.
 
11101 said:
It's already being strangled by capacity constraints. Look at how little Heathrow has grown compared to similar airports in the last decade or so.
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You're clearly more clued up on the topic than myself. Are the group of London airports overcapacity or is it a case of Heathrow as the preferred airport for airlines is taking all the demand? And thus needs to expand?

I could just google that to be fair never mind :D
 
Smores said:
You're clearly more clued up on the topic than myself. Are the group of London airports overcapacity or is it a case of Heathrow as the preferred airport for airlines is taking all the demand? And thus needs to expand?

I could just google that to be fair never mind :D
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There is capacity across London as a whole but Heathrow is the preferred airport. Not everyone is flying point to point, that's the problem. Many passengers will be connecting to a BA flight from Cathay Pacific, or United to Lufthansa etc. The airlines all need to be at the same airport.
 
Cina said:
Weird thing to say. Expanding airprots are very beneficial. They create more jobs, money, and tourism. Part of the reason London's is one of the two most important cities in the world is due to the fact that it has the biggest transport hub in the world.
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Yeah, I was being slightly facetious. I'm all for better air connections, but it's a regularly asked question. Why do we need a airport hub in London when there are unused airports in Spain.

But, yeah. The BOE has done as much as it can to promote growth, it's time for the government to step up. Whether it's a new London Ring Road, A new better motorway connecting London to Birmingham and Manchester (and therefore Scotland and Ireland), Crossrail 2, HS2, HS3... Or a Netflix-style library of drugs for the world to use, a Northern Powerhouse, a new London Runway or something else. It's time for a kickstart.
 
Smores said:
You're clearly more clued up on the topic than myself. Are the group of London airports overcapacity or is it a case of Heathrow as the preferred airport for airlines is taking all the demand? And thus needs to expand?

I could just google that to be fair never mind :D
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Heathrow serves around the same amount of yearly passengers as LAX and Chicago, both of which have 4 parallel runways. It doesn't have enough runways for its currently capacity let alone the future, and it is getting more numbers every year.
 
Cina said:
Heathrow serves around the same amount of yearly passengers as LAX and Chicago, both of which have 4 parallel runways. It doesn't have enough runways for its currently capacity let alone the future, and it is getting more numbers every year.
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It's a better airport, better positioned on the M4 and BA is based there.
 
It's going to be heathrow and it's going to happen. So this lack of decision making (all based on political cycles) is just putting us further behind our European competitors, especially since if it was agreed tomorrow it would take about 10 years to build the thing.

Then gatwick will get one and so will stanstead. All the airports are planning for it.

However, for all people who go on about whether its a good idea or not for whatever reason or if they should build 'boris island' :rolleyes: forget the most limiting factor and that is...

Where are all the new aircraft going to go?

The sky (over london) is full. In 2016 We are just under 2008 traffic levels which was the busiest ever, in 2017 we are going to break that and the expected levels are increasing significantly until 2020.

Input a new runway into the mix with new departure routes and you need MAJOR overhaul of the london terminal control area. You'll need new routes not just for heathrow but for the London airports that have routes that conflict with Heathrow ones...oh, thats:

London City
Luton
Stansted
Northolt
Gatwick

We need that anyway, but any new runway will exacerbate that situation.
 
Theresa May has done what four previous governments have failed to do, actually make a decision with regard to airport expansion.

Heathrow approved.
 
The M25 being rebuilt is going to be the largest issue, and it's completely ignored by the media at the moment.

Expect the third runway to go massively over budget
 
Zac Goldsmith has quit as a Tory MP i'd reading. Prior to his infamous mayoral campaign, that might've had implications beyond his constituency.
 
Nick 0208 Ldn said:
Zac Goldsmith has quit as a Tory MP i'd reading. Prior to his infamous mayoral campaign, that might've had implications beyond his constituency.
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Indeed - I think he may well continue as an independent (voting mostly with the conservatives on pretty much all except heathrow - though he may stand down and fight a by election as an independent if he is very confident?)

In other news isnt boris due to lay down in front of the bulldozers to stop it - oh to be a dozer driver that day!

http://newsthump.com/2016/10/25/tic...t-of-heathrow-bulldozers-sell-out-in-seconds/
 
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