UEFA coefficient points

Do we know what sort of boost we will get if we get thtough to the final and / or win it?
 
Gjx said:
It's called the Champions League, seems fair to me.

Having teams that finish 3rd/4th in their league 30 points behind the league winners and being allowed in the competition doesn't seem fair to me.

The points system is terrible. Bayer finished 3rd in the Bundasliga, 28 points behind Bayern, yet made it into Pot 2. Above plenty of clubs that won their respective leagues. So I agree that it's not fair on some of those who've had a good domestic season.

There will never be a fair solution whilst football isn't UEFA's priority.
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The only change I'd make is this:

Pot 1: Champions League holder + League winners from 7 top ranked nations OR League winners from 8 top ranked nations
Pot 2: Europa League holder + League winners from next 7 top ranked nations OR League winners from next 8 top ranked nations
Pot 3: Remaining League winners + Best placed runners up (e.g. from top ranked nations)
Pot 4: Remaining qualifiers, including all 3rd and 4th placed finishers.

That would have meant this current season's CL pots would have looked like this:

Pot 1: Real Madrid (CL Holder), Barcelona (1st in 1st Nation), Leicester City (1st in 2nd Nation), Bayern Munich (1st in 3rd Nation), Juventus (1st in 4th Nation), Benfica (1st in 5th Nation), Paris Saint-Germain (1st in 6th Nation), CSKA Moscow (1st in 7th Nation)

Pot 2: Sevilla (EL Holder), Dynamo Kyiv (1st in 8th Nation), PSV Eindhoven (1st in 9th Nation), Club Brugge (1st in 10th Nation), Basel (1st in 11th Nation), Besiktas (1st in 12th Nation), Dinamo Zagreb (1st in 17th Nation), Legia Warsaw (1st in 18th Nation)

Pot 3: Copenhagen (1st in 24th Nation), Celtic (1st in 25th Nation), Ludogorets Razgrad (1st in 29th Nation), Arsenal (2nd in 2nd Nation), Borussia Dortmund (2nd in 3rd Nation), Napoli (2nd in 4th Nation), Sporting CP (2nd in 5th Nation), Lyon (2nd in 6th Nation)

Pot 4: Rostov (2nd in 7th Nation), Atletico Madrid (3rd in 1st Nation), Tottenham Hotspur (3rd in 2nd Nation), Bayer Leverkusen (3rd in 3rd Nation), Porto (3rd in 5th Nation), Monaco (3rd in 6th Nation), Manchester City (4th in 2nd Nation), Borussia Monchengladbach (4th in 3rd Nation)

This system would reward teams for winning their league, and from the lower ranked nations, winning their league and qualifying for the tournament, and also throw up the potential for some interesting groups.

Real Madrid, Dynamo Kyiv, Borussia Dortmund and Manchester City could have been drawn together, or Bayern Munich, PSV Eindhoven, Napoli and Monaco. Likewise, you could end up with some less fancied teams in the knockouts from groups like Benfica, Legia Warsaw, Copenhagen, Rostov, or CSKA Moscow, Dinamo Zagreb, Celtic, Porto.


UEFA would never do this though because they want as many of the money sides in the knockouts as they can get.
 
Are any of those groups harder than E, F or H this year? All that does is puts all the weak teams in pot 2 and the strong teams in pot 3 and 4. It's effectively the same draw.
 
DWelbz19 said:
In the scenario where we don't win the EL, but finish 4th in the PL, which pot would we go into? Following our qualification game.
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I think it's still pot 2

If we had went out a couple of rounds ago in europa then it would have been 3 and Napoli in 2
 
Alex99 said:
The only change I'd make is this:

Pot 1: Champions League holder + League winners from 7 top ranked nations OR League winners from 8 top ranked nations
Pot 2: Europa League holder + League winners from next 7 top ranked nations OR League winners from next 8 top ranked nations
Pot 3: Remaining League winners + Best placed runners up (e.g. from top ranked nations)
Pot 4: Remaining qualifiers, including all 3rd and 4th placed finishers.

That would have meant this current season's CL pots would have looked like this:

Pot 1: Real Madrid (CL Holder), Barcelona (1st in 1st Nation), Leicester City (1st in 2nd Nation), Bayern Munich (1st in 3rd Nation), Juventus (1st in 4th Nation), Benfica (1st in 5th Nation), Paris Saint-Germain (1st in 6th Nation), CSKA Moscow (1st in 7th Nation)

Pot 2: Sevilla (EL Holder), Dynamo Kyiv (1st in 8th Nation), PSV Eindhoven (1st in 9th Nation), Club Brugge (1st in 10th Nation), Basel (1st in 11th Nation), Besiktas (1st in 12th Nation), Dinamo Zagreb (1st in 17th Nation), Legia Warsaw (1st in 18th Nation)

Pot 3: Copenhagen (1st in 24th Nation), Celtic (1st in 25th Nation), Ludogorets Razgrad (1st in 29th Nation), Arsenal (2nd in 2nd Nation), Borussia Dortmund (2nd in 3rd Nation), Napoli (2nd in 4th Nation), Sporting CP (2nd in 5th Nation), Lyon (2nd in 6th Nation)

Pot 4: Rostov (2nd in 7th Nation), Atletico Madrid (3rd in 1st Nation), Tottenham Hotspur (3rd in 2nd Nation), Bayer Leverkusen (3rd in 3rd Nation), Porto (3rd in 5th Nation), Monaco (3rd in 6th Nation), Manchester City (4th in 2nd Nation), Borussia Monchengladbach (4th in 3rd Nation)

This system would reward teams for winning their league, and from the lower ranked nations, winning their league and qualifying for the tournament, and also throw up the potential for some interesting groups.

Real Madrid, Dynamo Kyiv, Borussia Dortmund and Manchester City could have been drawn together, or Bayern Munich, PSV Eindhoven, Napoli and Monaco. Likewise, you could end up with some less fancied teams in the knockouts from groups like Benfica, Legia Warsaw, Copenhagen, Rostov, or CSKA Moscow, Dinamo Zagreb, Celtic, Porto.


UEFA would never do this though because they want as many of the money sides in the knockouts as they can get.
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Regarding the seeding, it is not important which number your pot has, but which teams you can't face. You have effectivly made Pot 4 the second most strongest pot and Pot 2 the weakest. Being in your Pot 2 gives the teams no advantage beacause it consists of weak teams only (bar Sevilla). Arsenal, BVB and Napoli are beeing punished for finishing to high up in their leagues.

UEFA are seeding as they do, because they think it will generate them the most money. They believe it will generate the most money, because it is the most attractive for TV audiances. If you want to see less fancied teams in the KO you could always watch Europa League.
 
Jezz Liverpool could have a wee spot of bother. A real danger of a group of death and on the flipside they are the pot 4 team nobody wants.

Randall Flagg said:
1st pl side being 10th should tell you all you need to know

Shocking performances in Europe
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Yes, you are right but you are being a little unfair. The 9 teams above them are almost always in the champions league due to uncompetitive leagues. Realistically only Benfica and Sevilla are the only 2 positions that could be taken out and Sevilla might have something to say about that. On their day, they are a real handful.

But it’s true and a fact, prem sides are not strong compared to the euro elite. The best players won’t come to the prem when Bayern Juve PSG Barca and Real offer easier paths to the champions league every year. So, unless something like a Kane and Ali, Rash and Tony, Jesus and Sterling all develop to become the new Cole n Yorke type of partnership that the elites have to really fear. That status quo will not change. Think back to Seria A and how nobody wanted to play there a few years ago its never really recovered and to be fair Juve are only ones flying the flag there.

Add to the fact that 6 into 4 don’t go also means that good players are spread out over more teams as opposed to a few years back where the top 4 snapped up all the talent. I think we kid ourselves a little that it’s all about money and if we pay it they will come. This new season coming there is a lot of talk of the big names who could maybe come, we ourselves are linked to most of them. Let’s see how many actually come to the prem and how many we get. I, like most am very hopefully but if I’m honest, I’m not confident we can win out in a battle with the "SPL in the sun" types of Barca Bayern and Real.
 
zee.robs said:
Regarding the seeding, it is not important which number your pot has, but which teams you can't face. You have effectivly made Pot 4 the second most strongest pot and Pot 2 the weakest. Being in your Pot 2 gives the teams no advantage beacause it consists of weak teams only (bar Sevilla). Arsenal, BVB and Napoli are beeing punished for finishing to high up in their leagues.

UEFA are seeding as they do, because they think it will generate them the most money. They believe it will generate the most money, because it is the most attractive for TV audiances. If you want to see less fancied teams in the KO you could always watch Europa League.
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Perhaps this then:

Pot 1: Real Madrid, Barcelona, Leicester City, Bayern Munich, Juventus, Benfica, Paris Saint-Germain, CSKA Moscow
Pot 2: Sevilla, Dynamo Kyiv, Arsenal, Borussia Dortmund, Napoli, Sporting CP, Lyon, Rostov
Pot 3: PSV Eindhoven, Club Brugge, Basel, Besiktas, Atletico Madrid, Tottenham Hotspur, Bayer Leverkusen, Porto
Pot 4: Monaco, Dinamo Zagreb, Legia Warsaw, Copenhagen, Celtic, Ludogorets Razgrad, Manchester City, Borussia Monchengladbach

So if you finished 2nd, Pot 2 is the highest you can be (as it is now), if you finished 3rd, Pot 3 is the highest you can be in, and if you finished 4th, Pot 4 is the highest you can be in.

There's already a line in the sand between the champions of the top 7/8 ranked nations and the rest, hence Dynamo Kyiv in Pot 2, so I just extended that to the next 8, hence Zagreb, Warsaw, Copenhagen, Celtic and Ludogorets not making a higher Pot despite being champions of their respective nations.

I remember a few seasons ago having a similar discussion and a Celtic fan (I think) was kicking off about them always being in Pot 4 despite being champions, and wanting a return to the format of champions only, and I had to point out that in a 32 team tournament they'd still likely have to play a qualifier due to Scotland's ranking, and would at best make Pot 3 because there would be 54 odd teams entering and their coefficient was pretty low. I do think the move to have Pot 1 has Champions of the top ranked nations was a good move, but I'm just not sure it went far enough.

Arsenal were in Pot 1 for years despite never making it past the last 16 and always finishing 3rd or 4th in the Premier League. I don't want these teams kicked out because the quality of the tournament has improved with more sides from the stronger leagues, but it was getting a bit daft that Pot 1 included teams like that, and the Portuguese sides who at the time were doing well in the UEFA Cup/Europa but never threatening to win the CL. I also didn't really see the sense in essentially weakening Pot 1 by including the champions from nations like Russia, Ukraine and Netherlands, because it made Pot 2 as strong, if not stronger.

Leicester, understandably, had the second lowest coefficient of any team in the group stages this year, and every team in Pot 2, and six of the eight in Pot 3, had a higher coefficient than CSKA Moscow, who were also in Pot 1. If 'weaker' champions are going to be put into Pot 1 at the expense of stronger runners up, then I don't see why we can't shift 'weaker' champions up a pot or two in expense of stronger third or fourth placed finishers.
 
Out of interest, I looked at what the pots would be for next season if all league seasons were to stop now. This assumes that all teams with games in hand win them, that one of Real Madrid/Juventus win the Champions League, and that Manchester United/Ajax win the Europa League. It also assumes that the champions from the 13th 17th ranked nations qualify through that half of the qualifiers, and the runners up from the 7th and 8th, and the third places from 4th, 5th and 6th ranked nations qualify through the other half (teams that would have to qualify in italics).

Pot 1: Real Madrid, Bayern Munich, Chelsea, Juventus, Monaco, Spartak Moscow, Benfica, Shakhtar Donetsk
Pot 2: Manchester United/Ajax, Barcelona, RB Leipzig, Tottenham Hotspur, AS Roma, Paris Saint-Germain, CSKA Moscow, Porto
Pot 3: Dynamo Kyiv, Anderlecht, Besiktas, Slavia Prague, Basel, Atletico Madrid, Borussia Dortmund, Manchester City
Pot 4: Napoli, OGC Nice, Zenit St. Petersburg, Feyenoord, Olympiacos, Red Bull Salzburg, Rijeka, Viitorul Constanta
 
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