UAP - Unidentified Aerial Phenomenon

my friend kevin reckons he’s been abducted countless times and is forced to bone hot alien tail on the reg. he says it’s ruined ugly earth women and their single vaginas for him.
 
Smores said:
I think it's fair to say the amount of times we've thought we know a reasonable amount and that's turned out to be true is precisely zero. It's a false confidence given by progress moving so slow that it feels fairly static within ones lifetime.

In 10,000 years (if somehow we've survived) then chances are we won't have the same certainties. I think probabilities is a daft topic for a UAP discussion but if it is being discussed we do need to factor in we probably know very little about very little.
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We know the speed of light, we know that with a certain degree of certainty. We know that our set of laws of physics and chemical compositions are universal throughout the Milky way. We know the fundamental elements that make up matter through out the Universe. We know the distances between Earth and other stars, the size of the Milky way and we know the distances between Galaxies with a certain degree of accuracy. We know the universe is expanding and we know its expanding at an ever increasing rate. We know roughly the age of the observable universe.

I keep banging on about the distances involved and those distances we know with real certainty. They are almost beyond our comprehension in terms of just how large they are. Those distances are so large that it is seriously probable humanity will never get to go to another galaxy. Thats not my conclusion but the conclusion of just about every astro physicist there is. We know how fast light travels across those distances and we know how fast radio waves and other waves across the entire spectrum travel. We know just how far our own radio signals we have been emitting out into space have gone. We know that with certainty and the distance our radio waves have travelled is so so tiny on the galactic scale never mind the scale of the universe. People should look that one up, its incredibly humbling just how small a distance our signals have travelled since we started pushing the various frequencies and types of radio waves into the cosmos.

We know that light speed travel is impossible because of the laws of physics. We know that even if we could travel at the speed of light the distances are still so huge even within our own Milky way that it will still take us an incredibly long time relative to the human life span to travel across the Milky Way. Thats just one galaxy.

We dont know everything, its fair to say there is an awful lot we dont know but some of the things we do know with certainty mean that travel across our own galaxy is about as far as we are ever likely to achieve.

To go further or faster is essentially at present reliant on discovering the sorts of things that sci fi writers have dreamt up to solve those problems, fictitious ideas to solve problems of a stories believability. Its possible that we will discover ways to travel at warp speed or find and use worm holes but right now those things are still in the realm of hope and fantasy and thats what many are relying on to solve the problem of where are all the aliens.

You think probabilities are daft in UAP discussions but probabilities are exactly what we use when trying to work out the possibility of life on other planets. We have to use probability to work out how much life is out there, how much is advanced and then the probability of it existing in a synchronised time frame as ours to make contact possible. Its not just the distances that are vast, its also the time frames. We are using probabilities in the arguments that UAPs are able to travel these massive distances to get here.

We will find indicators of life elsewhere one day, Im sure there is other life out there, I just seriously doubt we have been visited or will be visited in the near future.
 
golden_blunder said:
Was a statement by one of the US generals with an impeccable record
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I do not believe we have been visited by aliens. I do not believe we have reverse engineered an alien spacecraft.
We have been shown no proof.
Show us the reverse engineered spacecraft and I will change my mind. What is the reason they wont show us this reverse engineered space craft?
 
Stack said:
I do not believe we have been visited by aliens. I do not believe we have reverse engineered an alien spacecraft.
We have been shown no proof.
Show us the reverse engineered spacecraft and I will change my mind. What is the reason they wont show us this reverse engineered space craft?
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Secret weapons? Don’t want to rock the world of the religious cliques? Don’t want the world to descend into chaos? People have been told that we’re the only ones around and that we were created by god. Imagine then being told actually that’s not true and most of what you believe is a lie
 
golden_blunder said:
Secret weapons? Don’t want to rock the world of the religious cliques? Don’t want the world to descend into chaos? People have been told that we’re the only ones around and that we were created by god. Imagine then being told actually that’s not true and most of what you believe is a lie
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Sorry, no offence intended but those arguments dont really seem that strong for me. Firstly we have probably been thinking of Alien life seriously for the best part of 200 years now and especially in the last 100. I cannot seriously think there would be world chaos. there would be massive massive interest and the majority of the world is waiting for the day we find life already. Of course there would be concerns but honestly we wouldnt descend into chaos, religions wouldnt suddenly collapse or create mayhem.
We have been waiting and looking for so long that if an alien craft was displayed there would be more curiosity and questions than disruption.
 
Stack said:
Sorry, no offence intended but those arguments dont really seem that strong for me. Firstly we have probably been thinking of Alien life seriously for the best part of 200 years now and especially in the last 100. I cannot seriously think there would be world chaos. there would be massive massive interest and the majority of the world is waiting for the day we find life already. Of course there would be concerns but honestly we wouldnt descend into chaos, religions wouldnt suddenly collapse or create mayhem.
We have been waiting and looking for so long that if an alien craft was displayed there would be more curiosity and questions than disruption.
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people lose their shit and vote against their own interests because a few brown people head towards the coast in a dinghy. aliens here would be chaos.
 
Stack said:
We know the speed of light, we know that with a certain degree of certainty. We know that our set of laws of physics and chemical compositions are universal throughout the Milky way. We know the fundamental elements that make up matter through out the Universe. We know the distances between Earth and other stars, the size of the Milky way and we know the distances between Galaxies with a certain degree of accuracy. We know the universe is expanding and we know its expanding at an ever increasing rate. We know roughly the age of the observable universe.

I keep banging on about the distances involved and those distances we know with real certainty. They are almost beyond our comprehension in terms of just how large they are. Those distances are so large that it is seriously probable humanity will never get to go to another galaxy. Thats not my conclusion but the conclusion of just about every astro physicist there is. We know how fast light travels across those distances and we know how fast radio waves and other waves across the entire spectrum travel. We know just how far our own radio signals we have been emitting out into space have gone. We know that with certainty and the distance our radio waves have travelled is so so tiny on the galactic scale never mind the scale of the universe. People should look that one up, its incredibly humbling just how small a distance our signals have travelled since we started pushing the various frequencies and types of radio waves into the cosmos.

We know that light speed travel is impossible because of the laws of physics. We know that even if we could travel at the speed of light the distances are still so huge even within our own Milky way that it will still take us an incredibly long time relative to the human life span to travel across the Milky Way. Thats just one galaxy.

We dont know everything, its fair to say there is an awful lot we dont know but some of the things we do know with certainty mean that travel across our own galaxy is about as far as we are ever likely to achieve.

To go further or faster is essentially at present reliant on discovering the sorts of things that sci fi writers have dreamt up to solve those problems, fictitious ideas to solve problems of a stories believability. Its possible that we will discover ways to travel at warp speed or find and use worm holes but right now those things are still in the realm of hope and fantasy and thats what many are relying on to solve the problem of where are all the aliens.

You think probabilities are daft in UAP discussions but probabilities are exactly what we use when trying to work out the possibility of life on other planets. We have to use probability to work out how much life is out there, how much is advanced and then the probability of it existing in a synchronised time frame as ours to make contact possible. Its not just the distances that are vast, its also the time frames. We are using probabilities in the arguments that UAPs are able to travel these massive distances to get here.

We will find indicators of life elsewhere one day, Im sure there is other life out there, I just seriously doubt we have been visited or will be visited in the near future.
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Great post.

That's what truly deters me from getting into aliens visiting us. That and the time flow depending on where you are and how gravity impacts it. I'm not rejecting the idea of alien life, the universe is a big place and it would be foolish to state that we're alone in it. However, aliens just stopping by, playing with (american) prehistoric airplanes for the lols and then feck off is too much of a hard pill to swallow for me.

Unless there's irrefutable proof presented, I simply can't take it seriously, no matter who's telling the tale.
 
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That_Bloke said:
Great post.

That's what truly deters me from getting into aliens visiting us. That and the time flow depending on where you are and how gravity impacts it. I'm not rejecting the idea of alien life, the universe is a big place and it would be foolish to state that we're alone in it. However aliens just stopping by and playing with (american) prehistoric airplanes for the lols and just feck off, is too much of a hard pill to swallow for me.

Unless there's irrefutable proof presented, I simply can't take it seriously, no matter who's telling the tale.
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Do you believe in god?
 
So we have an alien craft we have reverse engineered according to a former military guy but we cant tell the world about it because it would cause massive chaos.

I mean seriously.....
 
Stack said:
We know the speed of light, we know that with a certain degree of certainty. We know that our set of laws of physics and chemical compositions are universal throughout the Milky way. We know the fundamental elements that make up matter through out the Universe. We know the distances between Earth and other stars, the size of the Milky way and we know the distances between Galaxies with a certain degree of accuracy. We know the universe is expanding and we know its expanding at an ever increasing rate. We know roughly the age of the observable universe.

I keep banging on about the distances involved and those distances we know with real certainty. They are almost beyond our comprehension in terms of just how large they are. Those distances are so large that it is seriously probable humanity will never get to go to another galaxy. Thats not my conclusion but the conclusion of just about every astro physicist there is. We know how fast light travels across those distances and we know how fast radio waves and other waves across the entire spectrum travel. We know just how far our own radio signals we have been emitting out into space have gone. We know that with certainty and the distance our radio waves have travelled is so so tiny on the galactic scale never mind the scale of the universe. People should look that one up, its incredibly humbling just how small a distance our signals have travelled since we started pushing the various frequencies and types of radio waves into the cosmos.

We know that light speed travel is impossible because of the laws of physics. We know that even if we could travel at the speed of light the distances are still so huge even within our own Milky way that it will still take us an incredibly long time relative to the human life span to travel across the Milky Way. Thats just one galaxy.

We dont know everything, its fair to say there is an awful lot we dont know but some of the things we do know with certainty mean that travel across our own galaxy is about as far as we are ever likely to achieve.

To go further or faster is essentially at present reliant on discovering the sorts of things that sci fi writers have dreamt up to solve those problems, fictitious ideas to solve problems of a stories believability. Its possible that we will discover ways to travel at warp speed or find and use worm holes but right now those things are still in the realm of hope and fantasy and thats what many are relying on to solve the problem of where are all the aliens.

You think probabilities are daft in UAP discussions but probabilities are exactly what we use when trying to work out the possibility of life on other planets. We have to use probability to work out how much life is out there, how much is advanced and then the probability of it existing in a synchronised time frame as ours to make contact possible. Its not just the distances that are vast, its also the time frames. We are using probabilities in the arguments that UAPs are able to travel these massive distances to get here.

We will find indicators of life elsewhere one day, Im sure there is other life out there, I just seriously doubt we have been visited or will be visited in the near future.
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I agree with your post, but what's this theory of yours that we can only be fairly certain of the speed of light? It's absolute according to my knowledge?
 
Shakesy said:
I agree with your post, but what's this theory of yours that we can only be fairly certain of the speed of light? It's absolute according to my knowledge?
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Sorry, I was probably trying to avoid being too strident about that. yes you are right.
 
Stack said:
Sorry, I was probably trying to avoid being too strident about that. yes you are right.
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It still can change depending on which environment it moves in. The absolute value is in vacuum. But air and water for example, affect it adversely, or did I misunderstand the assumption?
 
I like the idea that a civilisation got so advanced it figured out how to travel across galaxies to find us and when they got here, just…. decided to feck with us

like lads nah don’t try and communicate with them or anything for a while let’s have some fun by only bothering to let the absolute whoppers see us for a few decades or whatever
 
The problem with claims of far-advanced technologies for space travel is that we have to believe our level of technological and scientific advancement is nowhere near enough to comprehend space travel, but just enough to accurately record and assess strange space travel phenomena.

There are cases when measurements seem to defy all we know and are pointing to a new discovery. But the overwhelming majority of the time, it's just a bad measurement.
 
Tarrou said:
I like the idea that a civilisation got so advanced it figured out how to travel across galaxies to find us and when they got here, just…. decided to feck with us

like lads nah don’t try and communicate with them or anything for a while let’s have some fun by only bothering to let the absolute whoppers see us for a few decades or whatever
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From the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy:

"“Teasers are usually rich kids with nothing to do. They cruise around looking for planets that haven’t made interstellar contact yet and buzz them.” “Buzz them?” Arthur began to feel that Ford was enjoying making life difficult for him. “Yeah,” said Ford, “they buzz them. They find some isolated spot with very few people around, then land right by some poor unsuspecting soul whom no one’s ever going to believe and then strut up and down in front of him wearing silly antennas on their head and making beep beep noises.”
 
Iker Quesadillas said:
The problem with claims of far-advanced technologies for space travel is that we have to believe our level of technological and scientific advancement is nowhere near enough to comprehend space travel, but just enough to accurately record and assess strange space travel phenomena.

There are cases when measurements seem to defy all we know and are pointing to a new discovery. But the overwhelming majority of the time, it's just a bad measurement.
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The physics of it, is unimaginable. Not only the energies required to get to light speed (let alone, somehow, past it), there's the energies to slow down again. Then you need a mechanism to dump and hide all that energy so you aren't detected. So already you have (a) a craft able to survive superluminal speeds and protect its occupants from being irradiated (b) a reason to go to all the effort and expense (c) an incomprensibly vast energy source able to accelerate and decelerate said craft multiple times (d) an energy sink of such fidelity it is able to completely hide an engine signature that even us, with our level of technology, would otherwise be able to detect from pretty much anywhere in the solar system, with our eyeballs in a lot of it.

Even if instead you had some unknown physics, wormholes or warp drives that somehow took out the acceleration / deceleration issue in normal space, you still have an enormous energy problem, just differently constructed (and even harder to resolve - negative energies at galactic scales anyone? We don't even know what that is). So to get around that, you need some ever more exotic physics... at which point there is no point in trying to think about it, it's in the realm of magic.
 
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nickm said:
The physics of it, is unimaginable. Not only the energies required to get to light speed (let alone, somehow, past it), there's the energies to slow down again. Then you need a mechanism to dump and hide all that energy so you aren't detected. So already you have (a) a craft able to survive superluminal speeds and protect its occupants from being irradiated (b) a reason to go to all the effort and expense (c) an incomprensibly vast energy source able to accelerate and decelerate said craft multiple times (d) an energy sink of such fidelity it is able to completely hide an engine signature that even us, with our level of technology, would otherwise be able to detect from pretty much anywhere in the solar system, with our eyeballs in a lot of it.

Even if instead you had some unknown physics, wormholes or warp drives that somehow took out the acceleration / deceleration issue in normal space, you still have an enormous energy problem, just differently constructed (and even harder to resolve - negative energies at galactic scales anyone? We don't even know what that is). So to get around that, you need some ever more exotic physics... at which point there is no point in trying to think about it, it's in the realm of magic.
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Energies to get to light speed?
As far as we understand, only particles with no mass can achieve that. But you know that I am sure.

I do though fully agree with your point b) A reason to go to all that effort and expense.
That is a big reason for my scepticism and UAP/UFO visiting our planet. And the sheer numbers of them.
If humanity was going to travel to another Solar System at some point in the future, we would have to have a very good reason. And it is difficult to imagine that could be a manner mission due to the extreme distance and times involved.
 
Buster15 said:
Energies to get to light speed?
As far as we understand, only particles with no mass can achieve that. But you know that I am sure.

I do though fully agree with your point b) A reason to go to all that effort and expense.
That is a big reason for my scepticism and UAP/UFO visiting our planet. And the sheer numbers of them.
If humanity was going to travel to another Solar System at some point in the future, we would have to have a very good reason. And it is difficult to imagine that could be a manner mission due to the extreme distance and times involved.
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Watching how life naturally evolves on an exoplanet is a good enough reason.
 
Buster15 said:
Energies to get to light speed?
As far as we understand, only particles with no mass can achieve that. But you know that I am sure.
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You are right, I stand corrected. Near light speed.

Superluminal is also obviously impossible to get to via normal acceleration.
 
Stack said:
We know the speed of light, we know that with a certain degree of certainty. We know that our set of laws of physics and chemical compositions are universal throughout the Milky way. We know the fundamental elements that make up matter through out the Universe. We know the distances between Earth and other stars, the size of the Milky way and we know the distances between Galaxies with a certain degree of accuracy. We know the universe is expanding and we know its expanding at an ever increasing rate. We know roughly the age of the observable universe.

I keep banging on about the distances involved and those distances we know with real certainty. They are almost beyond our comprehension in terms of just how large they are. Those distances are so large that it is seriously probable humanity will never get to go to another galaxy. Thats not my conclusion but the conclusion of just about every astro physicist there is. We know how fast light travels across those distances and we know how fast radio waves and other waves across the entire spectrum travel. We know just how far our own radio signals we have been emitting out into space have gone. We know that with certainty and the distance our radio waves have travelled is so so tiny on the galactic scale never mind the scale of the universe. People should look that one up, its incredibly humbling just how small a distance our signals have travelled since we started pushing the various frequencies and types of radio waves into the cosmos.

We know that light speed travel is impossible because of the laws of physics. We know that even if we could travel at the speed of light the distances are still so huge even within our own Milky way that it will still take us an incredibly long time relative to the human life span to travel across the Milky Way. Thats just one galaxy.

We dont know everything, its fair to say there is an awful lot we dont know but some of the things we do know with certainty mean that travel across our own galaxy is about as far as we are ever likely to achieve.

To go further or faster is essentially at present reliant on discovering the sorts of things that sci fi writers have dreamt up to solve those problems, fictitious ideas to solve problems of a stories believability. Its possible that we will discover ways to travel at warp speed or find and use worm holes but right now those things are still in the realm of hope and fantasy and thats what many are relying on to solve the problem of where are all the aliens.

You think probabilities are daft in UAP discussions but probabilities are exactly what we use when trying to work out the possibility of life on other planets. We have to use probability to work out how much life is out there, how much is advanced and then the probability of it existing in a synchronised time frame as ours to make contact possible. Its not just the distances that are vast, its also the time frames. We are using probabilities in the arguments that UAPs are able to travel these massive distances to get here.

We will find indicators of life elsewhere one day, Im sure there is other life out there, I just seriously doubt we have been visited or will be visited in the near future.
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I agree with you; I also don't believe we have been visited. The distances in space are far too vast to traverse conventionally, even at the speed of light.

However, we do know that time and space can be distorted or even bent. Our most accepted theories within physics allow for the existence, or even the creation, of wormholes. I'm not saying we are visited by aliens using wormholes, but until this is disproven by new models, it remains a possible method for traveling huge distances very quickly.

So although it is extremely unlikely we have been visited it is not impossible even within our understanding of physics.
 
I'm not an expert but I think the general view of 'wormholes for space travel' is that they are almost certainly impossible.
 
Wing Attack Plan R said:
Whatever these UAP are, they are most likely unmanned . They pull too many Gs for a biological entity to survive. That one video said the UAP dropped 80,000 feet in about a second. That can also be written as 54,545 miles per hour, or mach 72. We currently can fly mach 9.6. In an 80,000 foot dive, the G forces would be astronomical. A normal person blacks out at 6 G.

Unless alien biology is solid state, no living thing is in those craft. It could be robotic or remote controlled. Insects can survive 200-400G, so maybe an insectoid pilot would work, but at 80,000ft/sec they are being pushed past that point.

I've always thought UAP were some kind of probes. They aren't terrestrial, at least not from any current nation. There's no chance the Russians or Chinese have this tech and the USA does not.

They could be holographic projections, so not really objects existing in 3-dimensional space, which would mean the physics in their flight (e.g., no propulsion system, no external steering valences, stopping on a dime, body-exploding g-force acceleration) are the wrong idea. They could be a 3-d representation of a 4-d construct.

They could be solid objects (not holograms) that are using gravitational holes to move. So they aren't really flying like a jet plane but are more or less popping in and out of our space-time.

Even less likely, but maybe more fun, is they could be probes sent back via wormhole from a future civilization, us or extraterrestrial. That explains why they sometimes crash, they observe a lot of military things, and no one seems to know where they come from.

Due to the insane distances between stars, biological entities in crafts is the least likely explanation. It would take 200,000 years at light speed to cross our galaxy from tip to tip, let alone get to the next galaxy over. So if they are biological they are from the Milky Way. If they come from Andromeda, that's 2.5 million years to get there traveling at light speed, forget about time dilation. The closest star system is Alpha Centauri at 4 years away, traveling at light speed. These aliens would have to be so superannuated that 8 years spent on a trip to earth would be nothing. So these craft cannot possibly be piloted by living things.
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I’m no conspiracy theorist however it’s a known fact that Tesla proved Ley lines exist on this planet and some pyramids are indeed constructed near or built on these lines, which creates a form of acoustic energy which may have been amplified and used by ancient terrestrial civilisations to navigate the earth in air vehicles like vimanas, even now this type of technology feels like science fiction.

If the mass of the device travelling either within our atmosphere, oceans or space was reduced by 90% by inertia dampeners, or a warp bubble then it’s feasible that a biological pilot could pull off these type of crazy stunts, but I agree, most would be unmanned or a very different biological creature piloting.

The population of earth is not even a type 1 civilisation, in the grand scheme of things we could potentially be like 2 to 4 year old children in Galactic kindergarten, understanding very little about quantum physics and how the universe actually works.

It’s feasible interstellar travel works very differently from travelling from point A to B but instead involves a huge interstellar network and space ships negotiate or burrow their way through the network by sometimes folding time and space to create a short cut to the destinations, like the fictional tv show StarGate but with these gates in space or on the planet.


Whilst I do believe a lot of these UAP’s are terrestrial or people seeing what their mind wants them to see, it’s hugely arrogant on our part to consider that humans are the Apex of evolution within the Universe and more intelligent civilisations than us, especially type 2 civilisations have not invented Zero Point Energy or the ability to traverse the Galaxy within reasonable lengths of time relative to their lifespan.

I also think on a scale of 1-10, it’s an absolute 9 out 10 that the US and UK Government have had exotic alien or terrestrial space crafts that have been shot down or crashed and they have tried to reverse engineer these devices. There’s simply no way technology jumps from the drab black and white era of the 1940’s to the colourful computer age of fibre optics of 1980’s in the way that it did without some form of reverse engineering exotic technology?

I’ve seen a black triangle move in ridiculously impossible movements within the sky, do I think it was Alien?

No, but could it be a Tr3B which has some form of anti gravity drive?

Possibly this sighting was in Las Vegas about 14 years ago, however you theory on 4D holographic technology is sound and also plausible.
 
surely someone like elon musk is smart enough to figure out how to travel across the universe in an instant. maybe if sou boy ***** got off his back he could devote the necessary time to working out the formula for it.
 
Iker Quesadillas said:
I'm not an expert but I think the general view of 'wormholes for space travel' is that they are almost certainly impossible.
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Science is full of 'almost impossible' things becoming a reality. What's the true odds of you being born? It's ridiculously small yet you're here. Nobody has a clue what the probability of us being visited by an extra terrestrial species is, it's pure speculation.
 
luke511 said:
Science is full of 'almost impossible' things becoming a reality. What's the true odds of you being born? It's ridiculously small yet you're here. Nobody has a clue what the probability of us being visited by an extra terrestrial species is, it's pure speculation.
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I don't think any of this is particularly relevant to wormholes.
 
Iker Quesadillas said:
I'm not an expert but I think the general view of 'wormholes for space travel' is that they are almost certainly impossible.
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Einstein's theory of general relativity, which has proven remarkably accurate in describing the fabric of space-time, allows for the existence of wormholes / white holes. They are yet to be discovered or observed, so we don't know if they even exist. But they are a compelling part of his equations that suggest the folding of space is possible.

Several scientists don't actually discard the possibility of travelling through them, the disagreement is if you can travel through time using them as Einsteins equations claim.

My point wasn't to claim aliens travelled to us using wormholes, just that it is possible according to our most accepted theories.
 
As I understand, wormholes in the "space travel" sense are valid mathematical solutions to the equations of general relativity. But if you interpret this physically, you end up requiring negative mass. Negative mass is not known to exist and I don't know that there's any strong reason to believe it exists.
 
As a side note the maths and physics involved in all these theories is well beyond my own comprehension, its s insanely complex but I do love trying to halfway understand whats going on. The people who work all the equations and mathematical proof are freaks
 
Iker Quesadillas said:
As I understand, wormholes in the "space travel" sense are valid mathematical solutions to the equations of general relativity. But if you interpret this physically, you end up requiring negative mass. Negative mass is not known to exist and I don't know that there's any strong reason to believe it exists.
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Antimatter
 
Unless you would would uncritically believe a random person today who claimed on TikTok to have seen a UFO, why would you uncritically believe accounts from people who had a vastly worse understanding than us of how the world works? And that's if you start out by assuming they're supposed to show aliens, which there's pretty much no evidence for.

If you're going to believe them when they tell you aliens visited them, you also have to believe them when they tell you the mountain god eats the sun during eclipses, or that the lightning striking near their cave was evidence of the sky god's displeasure with their lack of human sacrifice.
 
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