UAP - Unidentified Aerial Phenomenon

Revan said:
Nope, I am afraid I am not confusing anything. The most popular theory is that the universe is infinite in size, and in fact, many believe that even when it was created it was infinite in size. (Btw, the universe does not expand in an empty space, more like the space expands with the universe).

If the universe if infinite, then by definition, there are infinite copies of Milky Way, the Earth, and you.

Of course, this is different to many-world interpretation of quantum mechanics, that allows a large number (potentially infinite) numbers of you. And different to other possibilities of multiverse (such as the string theoretical landscape). Finally, all of them can be at the same time, so the different multiverses are not mutually exclusive.
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The most popular theory is the BBT. According to it, there was a rapid inflation of space, a process which was happening above the speed of light (it was not actual matter traveling). Of course in that moment actual matter was created, and there was a simultaneous "explosion" of matter (I.e hydrogen nuclei), traveling within the rapidly expanding space.
This is how the phenomenon of cosmic background radiation , remnant from the Big Bang, and omnipresent at every direction, has occurred. It wouldn't have been possible if this occurred just by movement of matter or light, observing the relativistic limit, without the space inflation.

Why would there be infinite copies of our galaxy within the same universe? You got any source for this reasoning?
 
Smores said:
There's an assumption light speed craft are required which isn't necessarily the case. We're already able to identify possible habitable planets galaxies away so that doesn't seem a leap either.

There's a temptation to reverse it and anthropomorphise such travel but really it could be over thousands of years and any such civilisation could predate us by billions of years.

The only bit I agree on is the chances of them turning up during our lifetime are so remote that it deserves complete sceptisim. It's why it's always been more likely to find an alien craft/probe than to see one flying in the skies. Of course it's more likely governments are just doing experimental flight testing and using UFOs as cover, a strategy they've admitted to in the past.
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Andromeda, the nearest galaxy is 2.5 million light years away. For an alien civilisation to send any kind of probe here, the probe would have to have set off 2.5 million years ago to have got here by now, and that would be if it is travelling at light speed, and the fastest probe we can theoretically make will only get to 20% of light speed.

If there were more technologically advanced aliens in the Milky Way, a more likely place to detect them, we would have spotted them by now. There is either no other intelligent life, or we are the first to evolve to this stage.

I personally believe the galaxy is teeming with life, possibly even as technologically advanced as we are, but I don’t believe we are being visited by more advanced civilisations because 1. We would have spotted them and that sort of thing doesn’t just stay quiet 2. The scale of distances involved is so immense their method of travel would have to be something way beyond our current knowledge of physics
 
That'sHernandez said:
Andromeda, the nearest galaxy is 2.5 million light years away. For an alien civilisation to send any kind of probe here, the probe would have to have set off 2.5 million years ago to have got here by now, and that would be if it is travelling at light speed, and the fastest probe we can theoretically make will only get to 20% of light speed.

If there were more technologically advanced aliens in the Milky Way, a more likely place to detect them, we would have spotted them by now. There is either no other intelligent life, or we are the first to evolve to this stage.

I personally believe the galaxy is teeming with life, possibly even as technologically advanced as we are, but I don’t believe we are being visited by more advanced civilisations because 1. We would have spotted them and that sort of thing doesn’t just stay quiet 2. The scale of distances involved is so immense their method of travel would have to be something way beyond our current knowledge of physics
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You can imagine building a ship capable of traveling here at a decent fraction of the speed of light. Staggeringly hard but if you threw £20 trillion at it, maybe you could do it. To do that but also make it undetectable - is an engineering feat unimaginably beyond us. To do that and then have it capable of zipping back and forth all over the place, is magic.
 
nimic said:
I'm almost certain this is not a by definition thing. You could have an infinite series of different things.
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The finite series would need to converge at some point though (mathematically speaking). Milky Way contains a finite number of particles arranged in some particular format. If there is an infinite universe full of stuff, then there are infinite configurations of pretty much any structure that we can see.

I guess infinite is weird.
 
i feel it is more likely we have contact with a non human civilisation living in the ocean than from outer of space
 
I love how human being projects their own image and conception of life into the way they imagine non human life. They're supposed to come to earth to spy on us with advanced alian aircraft the way we'd do it with a foreign country we're trying to observe.

Non human life could take forms we can't even conceive and it's very unlikely it remotely looks like what we imagine. So the idea of any form of non human life casually coming to earth for decades to observe us seems pretty strange to me.
 
That'sHernandez said:
Andromeda, the nearest galaxy is 2.5 million light years away. For an alien civilisation to send any kind of probe here, the probe would have to have set off 2.5 million years ago to have got here by now, and that would be if it is travelling at light speed, and the fastest probe we can theoretically make will only get to 20% of light speed.

If there were more technologically advanced aliens in the Milky Way, a more likely place to detect them, we would have spotted them by now. There is either no other intelligent life, or we are the first to evolve to this stage.

I personally believe the galaxy is teeming with life, possibly even as technologically advanced as we are, but I don’t believe we are being visited by more advanced civilisations because 1. We would have spotted them and that sort of thing doesn’t just stay quiet 2. The scale of distances involved is so immense their method of travel would have to be something way beyond our current knowledge of physics
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Well there's your confusion there's loads of galaxies closer than Andromeda and much much much closer that you seem to think, galaxies in which we've identified candidate habitable planets. Plenty that we'll send probes to and could theoretically receive them from.

I'm really not even sure how you think we'd have spotted aliens in our own galaxy if they did exist? We do not have that technology or even anywhere close to having it.
 
Oly Francis said:
I love how human being projects their own image and conception of life into the way they imagine non human life. They're supposed to come to earth to spy on us with advanced alian aircraft the way we'd do it with a foreign country we're trying to observe.

Non human life could take forms we can't even conceive and it's very unlikely it remotely looks like what we imagine. So the idea of any form of non human life casually coming to earth for decades to observe us seems pretty strange to me.
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All intelligent species probably share the same questions. What makes a circle round? What created the universe? Why? By looking at how life and consciousness naturally evolves on other planets, your understanding of the universe becomes stronger.
 
That'sHernandez said:
Andromeda, the nearest galaxy is 2.5 million light years away. For an alien civilisation to send any kind of probe here, the probe would have to have set off 2.5 million years ago to have got here by now, and that would be if it is travelling at light speed, and the fastest probe we can theoretically make will only get to 20% of light speed.

If there were more technologically advanced aliens in the Milky Way, a more likely place to detect them, we would have spotted them by now. There is either no other intelligent life, or we are the first to evolve to this stage.

I personally believe the galaxy is teeming with life, possibly even as technologically advanced as we are, but I don’t believe we are being visited by more advanced civilisations because 1. We would have spotted them and that sort of thing doesn’t just stay quiet 2. The scale of distances involved is so immense their method of travel would have to be something way beyond our current knowledge of physics
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Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but how is the bold part not a contradiction?

Also, a more technologically advanced civilization isn't by default easier to detect, in fact the complete opposite is just as likely to be true.
 
Zlaatan said:
Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but how is the bold part not a contradiction?

Also, a more technologically advanced civilization isn't by default easier to detect, in fact the complete opposite is just as likely to be true.
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Or maybe the Men in Black movies were actually real life documentaries and they've been hiding in plain sight :lol:
 
Zlaatan said:
Also, a more technologically advanced civilization isn't by default easier to detect, in fact the complete opposite is just as likely to be true.
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I can see your point but I guess it depends on the level of advancement. Arguably we on earth are less visible in some ways (lower radio noise) than we were 40 years ago, but you could imagine that is a "temporary" lull before we start to engineer Earth/Moon/Mars/Asteroid belts - you'd think all that activity might sort of be detectable.

A medium stage Type 1 civilisation would show a lot of potential technosignatures given its energy usage, hard to hide the effects of all that output. Type 2 - I guess it depends. One the one hand, they could all be hiding in Dyson spheres. On the other, you'd think any civilisation able to engineer its solar system, would be detectable by its impacts on it.
 
golden_blunder said:
We’re very arrogant to believe that there or no other life forms out there
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I'm sure there is. It would be bizarre if there wasn't. But I'm almost as sure that technologically advanced aliens haven't been visiting us in secret.
 
Wibble said:
I'm sure there is. It would be bizarre if there wasn't. But I'm almost as sure that technologically advanced aliens haven't been visiting us in secret.
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So you think Men in Black is BS then :lol:
 
That'sHernandez said:
There is either no other intelligent life, or we are the first to evolve to this stage.
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Only in the Milky Way on a temporal scale that overlaps with our civilisation. It is entirely possible that life is just about everywhere, but that technologically advanced life is so rare that it is either too far away to be detected or happens so rarely that we don't overlap on a timescale that allows detection.
 
nickm said:
I can see your point but I guess it depends on the level of advancement. Arguably we on earth are less visible in some ways (lower radio noise) than we were 40 years ago, but you could imagine that is a "temporary" lull before we start to engineer Earth/Moon/Mars/Asteroid belts - you'd think all that activity might sort of be detectable.

A medium stage Type 1 civilisation would show a lot of potential technosignatures given its energy usage, hard to hide the effects of all that output. Type 2 - I guess it depends. One the one hand, they could all be hiding in Dyson spheres. On the other, you'd think any civilisation able to engineer its solar system, would be detectable by its impacts on it.
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Sure, it would have to be a much more advanced civilization than us obviously that's been around for much longer. Or they could just be subterranean with a strong desire to never hang out with any other lifeforms. The list of reasons why we haven't been able to detect a potential alien civilization should be quite long.
 
Wibble said:
Only in the Milky Way on a temporal scale that overlaps with our civilisation. It is entirely possible that life is just about everywhere, but that technologically advanced life is so rare that it is either too far away to be detected or happens so rarely that we don't overlap on a timescale that allows detection.
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Or it could be they've perfected stealth technology, there's just a few too many seemingly unexplained things out there to me, it'd be pretty arrogant to think we're all there is out there as well
 
Red in STL said:
Or it could be they've perfected stealth technology, there's just a few too many seemingly unexplained things out there to me, it'd be pretty arrogant to think we're all there is out there as well
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It is possible, although I'm not sure why they would do something like that as it would be a far from trivial undertaking, even if the technology was possible. But it would be the end game of a very advanced civilisation that for the majority of it's existence was detectable. The vast majority of advanced civilisations would be detectable for most of their existence. So them being very rare in terms of time and space is still the most likely explanation.
 
Has anyone got a link to the vegas back yard video? I've seen the interviews but not the actual vid.
 
spwd said:
Has anyone got a link to the vegas back yard video? I've seen the interviews but not the actual vid.
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I believe the only video is from a distance and it looks like a flare. The people who reported it to the police and described big aliens in their backyard (or whatever) were apparently too busy talking to 911 to use their phones to film the aliens themselves. Seems legit.
 
Wibble said:
I believe the only video is from a distance and it looks like a flare. The people who reported it to the police and described big aliens in their backyard (or whatever) were apparently too busy talking to 911 to use their phones to film the aliens themselves. Seems legit.
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No there's the bodycam footage from the police who witnessed the thing falling to the ground and the coppers apparently sound scared and the video had been blurred out. It was on Reddit but it said its not available in the UK
Also if you think about how shit scared they'd be then I doubt he be thinking of filming unless he's the most chilled person ever.

I always used to look on dumbfounded when I saw videos of people just standing there watching as a truck or whatever was hurtling towards them and shouting "move you fecking idiots" until it happened to me and my gf at the time. We were at the drag racing and one of the cars carbon fibre bodies flew up in the air and eventually crashed and squashed flat onto the standard steel barriers about 6ft away and none of us watching moved an inch so to say it's weird that he didn't start filming while obviously in shock is pretty daft.
 
spwd said:
No there's the bodycam footage from the police who witnessed the thing falling to the ground and the coppers apparently sound scared and the video had been blurred out. It was on Reddit but it said its not available in the UK
Also if you think about how shit scared they'd be then I doubt he be thinking of filming unless he's the most chilled person ever.

I always used to look on dumbfounded when I saw videos of people just standing there watching as a truck or whatever was hurtling towards them and shouting "move you fecking idiots" until it happened to me and my gf at the time. We were at the drag racing and one of the cars carbon fibre bodies flew up in the air and eventually crashed and squashed flat onto the standard steel barriers about 6ft away and none of us watching moved an inch so to say it's weird that he didn't start filming while obviously in shock is pretty daft.
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I think the video I saw was the "body cam" footage (actually looked like handheld to me) and it wasn't blurred out but the quality was poor. It just looked like a flare coming down to me. Certainly nothing suggested it was anything more dramatic.

And this involved a conversation lasting some time. Not a fight or flight situation. People film stuff all the time especially when something dramatic is happening. Except when UFOs are involved of course.
 
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Wibble said:
I'm sure there is. It would be bizarre if there wasn't. But I'm almost as sure that technologically advanced aliens haven't been visiting us in secret.
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I don’t see why not? You’re assuming other life forms are as stupid as humans
 
golden_blunder said:
We’re very arrogant to believe that there or no other life forms out there
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If anybody believes that then yes. But also to believe our understanding of science, physics, life etc is complete enough to determine what a more advanced form of life can and cannot do in terms of traveling the universe.

I reckon we'll eventually make a discovery that'll make us realise that we know feck all in the grand scheme of that our laws of science in earth aren't applicable elsewhere.
 
Wibble said:
Only in the Milky Way on a temporal scale that overlaps with our civilisation. It is entirely possible that life is just about everywhere, but that technologically advanced life is so rare that it is either too far away to be detected or happens so rarely that we don't overlap on a timescale that allows detection.
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This is about where I'd stand on balance of probabilities. Prokaryotes abound.
 
What if all of the animals and insects, other than us, are all aliens that have visited us over the last billion or so years and decided to stay.
 
Wibble said:
I'd say that it is a very fair bet.
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What's the logic with that though? If there's other life out there the chances are it's been around millions or even billions of years before us

It only makes sense if you take the view point that we humans are so supreme being that nothing else could possibly touch us.
 
Wibble said:
Only in the Milky Way on a temporal scale that overlaps with our civilisation. It is entirely possible that life is just about everywhere, but that technologically advanced life is so rare that it is either too far away to be detected or happens so rarely that we don't overlap on a timescale that allows detection.
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I guess we wouldn't be that arrogant to think we're the only advanced life forms if our fundamental conception of the way things work are wrong, which looking at things at the smallest scale appears to indicate. At the quantum level things seem informational, not objective. Which could ultimately mean things are informational at a macro level as well, it's just we don't have a bigger picture yet. Or we're not willing to entertain that possibility with the seriousness it demands because a lot of careers and reputations are at stake.

If it's all virtual it's not that hard to have a universe full of "empty space." There is no improbability about a spinning globe surrounded by light years of "empty space" that is primarily there for the conscious entities on earth (including animals, not just humans). It would only have to render stars, and exoplanets and galaxies, and black holes, and quasars to the fidelity required by us when we're pointing telescopes. There's nothing wasteful or resource intensive or statistically implausible about the scenario if that's how it was intended, it's when the premise is the world view that science presently wishes to advance that it's really hard to reconcile being alone. If you really do have trillions of rocks flying around suns, and it proceeded with objective, materialistic continuity from a big bang then yes it's implausible to think all these conditions came together for life and only we arose out of it.
 
Smores said:
What's the logic with that though? If there's other life out there the chances are it's been around millions or even billions of years before us

It only makes sense if you take the view point that we humans are so supreme being that nothing else could possibly touch us.
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Biological beings are likely to be biological
 
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