Not sure why Ricky Sbragia is still getting stick, last year yeah, hell yeah, but this at least we actually look like a team, and certain players have come on leaps and bounds.
U23s - Wolves vs Manchester United
- Thread starter RedMachine03
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limerickcitykid
There once was a kid from Toronto...
Because we don't look like a team half the time and we still can't defend a cross for shit. We have a miles better side than our opposition in most games and are still struggling to put together a consistent cohesive attack. Any good bit of play is down to individual skill because the likes of Gomes and Chong are just miles better than any opposition.Not sure why Ricky Sbragia is still getting stick, last year yeah, hell yeah, but this at least we actually look like a team, and certain players have come on leaps and bounds.
Class of 63
Sourness
Because we don't look like a team half the time and we still can't defend a cross for shit. We have a miles better side than our opposition in most games and are still struggling to put together a consistent cohesive attack. Any good bit of play is down to individual skill because the likes of Gomes and Chong are just miles better than any opposition.
Maybe i'm just easier pleased then, as not one team this season has made us look second best as most teams did last, albeit at a slightly higher level.
londonredmaniac
I suffer delusions of grandeur
Not sure why Ricky Sbragia is still getting stick, last year yeah, hell yeah, but this at least we actually look like a team, and certain players have come on leaps and bounds.
The level we are playing at has something to do with it mate.
Class of 63
Sourness
The level we are playing at has something to do with it mate.
Could be though I don't think there's that much difference between the two Leagues on the technical side, but fitness wise maybe.
kundalini
Full Member
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Could be though I don't think there's that much difference between the two Leagues on the technical side, but fitness wise maybe.
If you look at the destinations of players when they leave their U23 squad, whether it be on loan, transfer, end of contract or internal promotion to the first team squad, there was a clear difference in the summer between the clubs now in the top division and those now in the lower division. I was shocked by the destinations of players in United's current League.
Not including United, 139 players left the 11 other teams currently in the lower U23 League in the summer 2018 transfer window. 41 without club. 12 Non-League (6 on loan). 13 National League (8 on loan). 5 went to other U23 squads. 3 to Ireland. 11 to 2nd or 3rd tier Leagues within Europe. 2 to the Scottish Championship, 18 to League Two (10 on loan). Of the more attractive destinations, 18 to League One (11 loans), 6 to Championship (5 internal promotions) 4 to Scottish Premiership and 6 to top tier Leagues within Europe (Eredivise/Belgium/Swiss League).
The top division sends fewer players to National (7) and Non-League (8) teams. The figure for players without a club is much lower (13). 25 players went to a Championship team (14 loans, 5 permanent moves and 6 internal promotions). 6 players joined teams in the Bundesliga. 6 in total to Ligue 1/Eredivisie/Serie A. 5 to Belgium top division. 3 to Scottish Premiership. 17 to League One (9 on loan). 15 to League Two (8 on loan).
For the full season 2017/8 as defined by Transfermarkt (summer 2017 and winter 2018 transfer windows) the figures for the lower U23 League are as follows: 179 departures (loan, end of contract, transfer, internal promotion to first team squad). 21 without club. 32 Non-League (13 permanent), 16 to National League (2 permanent), 7 to another U23 team, 6 to Ireland, 6 to Scottish Champ, 3 to US, 32 to League Two (6 permanent), 22 to League One (3 permanent, 1 internal, rest loans) 6 Scottish Prem (5 loans), 11 to Championship (8 internal promotions, 3 permanent transfers) 1 to PL (Tom Edwards of Stoke internal promotion). 5 to various lower tier Leagues in Europe. Similar number to Norway/Finland/Iceland top tier. 1 each to Brazil, India and Welsh Leagues.
Of course this reflects the past strength of U23 squads, not the present, and the picture is confused somewhat by some teams operating huge U23 squads with large numbers being sent out on loan to weird and wonderful destinations, sometimes following one loan with another, so that their U23 playing days belong in the distant past. It also says nothing about clubs that choose to give some first team squad players match practice in the U23 League.
Given all the above, I'm absolutely astonished that Ro-Shaun Williams, Regan Poole and to a lesser extent, Ethan Hamilton, are playing for the U23s, rather than out on loan. Sbragia has United near the top of the table due more to conceding the fewest number of goals, than to our 5th ranked attack. While I don't rate Williams, Poole or Hamilton, I suspect they contribute quite a lot towards our defensive record. From a development persepective, I can't see what they gain from playing at this level and it prevents Ercolani, Dunne, Callum Whelan and Sang from getting mins that would benefit them. Of course I don't know if it was Butt, Sbragia or the players themselves that made the decision to play U23s this autumn. Perhaps there simply weren't any offers. United do have a history of strengthening their U23/U21 team with slightly older players that don't appear to be considered potential first team players; Warren Joyce made use of several in some of his title winning sides.
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Class of 63
Sourness
If you look at the destinations of players when they leave their U23 squad, whether it be on loan, transfer, end of contract or internal promotion to the first team squad, there was a clear difference in the summer between the clubs now in the top division and those now in the lower division. I was shocked by the destinations of players in United's current League.
Not including United, 139 players left the 11 other teams currently in the lower U23 League in the summer 2018 transfer window. 41 without club. 12 Non-League (6 on loan). 13 National League (8 on loan). 5 went to other U23 squads. 3 to Ireland. 11 to 2nd or 3rd tier Leagues within Europe. 2 to the Scottish Championship, 18 to League Two (10 on loan). Of the more attractive destinations, 18 to League One (11 loans), 6 to Championship (5 internal promotions) 4 to Scottish Premiership and 6 to top tier Leagues within Europe (Eredivise/Belgium/Swiss League).
The top division sends fewer players to National (7) and Non-League (8) teams. The figure for players without a club is much lower (13). 25 players went to a Championship team (14 loans, 5 permanent moves and 6 internal promotions). 6 players joined teams in the Bundesliga. 6 in total to Ligue 1/Eredivisie/Serie A. 5 to Belgium top division. 3 to Scottish Premiership. 17 to League One (9 on loan). 15 to League Two (8 on loan).
For the full season 2017/8 as defined by Transfermarkt (summer 2017 and winter 2018 transfer windows) the figures for the lower U23 League are as follows: 179 departures (loan, end of contract, transfer, internal promotion to first team squad). 21 without club. 32 Non-League (13 permanent), 16 to National League (2 permanent), 7 to another U23 team, 6 to Ireland, 6 to Scottish Champ, 3 to US, 32 to League Two (6 permanent), 22 to League One (3 permanent, 1 internal, rest loans) 6 Scottish Prem (5 loans), 11 to Championship (8 internal promotions, 3 permanent transfers) 1 to PL (Tom Edwards of Stoke internal promotion). 5 to various lower tier Leagues in Europe. Similar number to Norway/Finland/Iceland top tier. 1 each to Brazil, India and Welsh Leagues.
Of course this reflects the past strength of U23 squads, not the present, and the picture is confused somewhat by some teams operating huge U23 squads with large numbers being sent out on loan to weird and wonderful destinations, sometimes following one loan with another, so that their U23 playing days belong in the distant past. It also says nothing about clubs that choose to give some first team squad players match practice in the U23 League.
Given all the above, I'm absolutely astonished that Ro-Shaun Williams, Regan Poole and to a lesser extent, Ethan Hamilton, are playing for the U23s, rather than out on loan. Sbragia has United near the top of the table due more to conceding the fewest number of goals, than to our 5th ranked attack. While I don't rate Williams, Poole or Hamilton, I suspect they contribute quite a lot towards our defensive record. From a development persepective, I can't see what they gain from playing at this level and it prevents Ercolani, Dunne, Callum Whelan and Sang from getting mins that would benefit them. Of course I don't know if it was Butt, Sbragia or the players themselves that made the decision to play U23s this autumn. Perhaps there simply weren't any offers. United do have a history of strengthening their U23/U21 team with slightly older players that don't appear to be considered potential first team players; Warren Joyce made use of several in some of his title winning sides.
Regan Poole and RSW are the two who i'd say have kicked on most this year, but put that more down to having better technical players in front of them than a dropping in standard of the League, whereas previous they had Devonte Redmond and Matty Willock front-screening they have James Garner and latterly Angel Gomes doing the job this year(no harm to Redmond and Willock but Garner and Gomes are far superior players)
Maybe it's just the confidence of playing regularly but Ro-Shaun who has always been all about pace and power has started passing the ball out from the back where previously he'd have given Chris Smalling a run for his money as the worst passer of all the centre-backs at the club.
And Regan who has always had a range of passing just looks more composed and stronger in possession, though his loan spell playing in various positions last season obviously helped him with that.
Hamilton apart from his first few appearances as a 17 year old when he looked promising has never impressed me for the 23s/reserves.
Wouldn't expect any of the three to still be at the club at the start of the 2019/20 season.
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