Mourinho was here when our U23 team were doing well too. I can't see how you can link this years performance of the u23s to Mourinho in resonable any way, unless you think that McTominay's presence would be winning them games.
U23s - Arsenal vs Manchester United
- Thread starter RedMachine03
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Seriously, when was that then ?
We won the Reserve League in 2009/10, 2011/12, 2012/13, 2014/15 and 2015/16, but since Mourinho arrived we only just escaped relegation by the skin of our teeth last season(his first season), and it's exactly the same again this season.
We were without 4 players that are pretty first choice in attack - Wilson, Kehinde, Gribbin and Dearnley. It always going to have some impact.
Other than deciding to loan some players out and moving some up to the seniors which have generally been the right decisions I don't see what relevance Mourinho being the first team manager has at all.
My mistake, for some reason I thought we did well last season. Regardless, he has nothing to do with the U23s so their poor performances are a result of their own defficiencies and no one elses.
Yeah lets blame Mourinho
Well silly me, I thought the Club Manager oversaw everything.
What do you think the u23 manager does?
Exactly, but he should, SAF, David Moyes and LvG before him watched the reserve side whenever they could which was motivational in itself for the players, and i'm sure unlike Mourinho, if the 23s were struggling all three would offer a few senior pros that weren't regulars in the first-team to give a helping hand.
But not Mourinho, if you're injured, or in the stiffs you don't exist, unless there's an injury crisis, and then he'll most likely go over the 23s Manager and ask Nicky Butt for recommendations - there's just no link between the first team and the reserves anymore and for Manchester United it's just wrong, I couldn't give two shits if it's the modern way, or what other clubs do.
Pull his hair out, that's obviously why Nicky Butt was overlooked for the position.
Aren't the U23 games on the same day or time as the first team games?
Jose cant catch a break, when we are winning he is responsible for U23's loosing!
Aren't the U23 games on the same day or time as the first team games?
Jose cant catch a break, when we are winning he is responsible for U23's loosing!
Rarely, maybe two or three times a season, though they did yesterday.
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.../manchester-united-vs-tottenham-live-13038155
He does ffs. Just as much as SAF and LvG did.
Well done mate, top of the class, you've managed to find the one match at the end of the season when he was looking to throw a few kids in for the Palace match to pad out his stats for using young players.
Bravo.
And the u23's are struggling because they're a weak group and we haven't adequately replaced Warren Joyce yet, who was a fantastic manager at that level. It's got bugger all to do with Mourinho. The u18's are doing fine, but I guess Mourinho's influence stops at the u23's.
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You can make that comment if you can find all the games SAF attended in his final 2 years at the club.
And that's not an extensive list of Mourinho's attendance, it's just the first hit on Google.
Rashford, Tuanzebe got promoted. Love, McNair, Blackett, CBJ got promoted under LVG and were deemed to be not good enough and sold (except CBJ)
Fletcher left on a free just before Jose arrived, Harrop left last season.
All this while the youth setiup was going through a bit of an overhaul..
The reserves dont have the quality we usually have. A number of things contributed to it. Jose wasnt going to Woody and asking for kids to be sold to save the wages.. It has little to do with him.
It'll be back to normal in a year or two.
Fletcher left on a free just before Jose arrived, Harrop left last season.
All this while the youth setiup was going through a bit of an overhaul..
The reserves dont have the quality we usually have. A number of things contributed to it. Jose wasnt going to Woody and asking for kids to be sold to save the wages.. It has little to do with him.
It'll be back to normal in a year or two.
He actually does go to a lot more games than gets reported on. The u23s also train close to the seniors and train with the seniors during every International break. Every member of the u23s and most of the under 18s have trained with the seniors at some point this season and last season and the ones who impressed Mourinho most in Pereira, Tuanzebe and McTominay stayed in and around the first team squad so to claim there's no link between the first team and reserves is wrong. It's not really a coincidence that the group of players who struggled hugely in their first year at u18s level 2 years ago finishing 2nd last in the league & going on a 13 game losing streak are now struggling in their first year at u23s. Most of the players are small physically so are having trouble adapting to playing against older or more developed players and a few of them just aren't up to the level required. When you add in the fact that Sbragia doesn't seem to have much idea of how to get the best out of a lot of the players and some of the better and more experienced players like Gribbin, Dearnley and Williams have missed quite a few games and we're generally using players who are very inexperienced even at this level it's not much of a surprise that we're struggling. Blaming Mourinho for these problems rather than the likes of Sbragia, Martin, Murtough and Butt makes very little sense though just as it wouldn't make sense to give him credit for the u18s doing well.
Jesus christ, our u23's go through a bad period, and it's Mourinho's fault. I swear some of ye just have the knives out for him no matter what. A lot of what would be our best players at that level are either in the first team, or out on loan getting proper game time. A lot of our other top underage talents are too young or just pushing into the u23's. But yeah it's all Mourinho's fault
Our U18s have been good, but i guess that’s because they’re the furthest away from Mourinho’s influence.
Sbragia needs to go. There's been too many games where we've had more talented players on the bench than some on the pitch.
U23's managers need to go now and get some up to date managers football is moving forward but Ricky and Tommy are still in the dark ages. They have some really good players in the 23's.
I've had MUTV for 10+ years now, and watch every game(most more than once), so i'm not just going off reports, and i'm not suggesting SAF was there at every reserve/u23/21 game because he wasn't, and less so towards the end, but there was always some first team representation, either Mike Phelan, Rene M or Carlos Q keeping their eyes on the players giving them encouragement that if they performed well it would be noted, similarly with LvG, if he wasn't there Albert Stuivenberg was - with Mourinho it's just not happening or doesn't appear too, though maybe the MUTV camera crew don't know who they are looking for, but I doubt it.
I remember a few years back where SAF in a post-match interview(we'd just won an important League match) on MUTV asked the reporter how the 'A' had got on that morning, and on hearing they'd lost he was absolutely gutted, you'd have thought somebody had just told him his dog had died, I just can't imagine Mourinho asking, or being bothered.
On the rare occasions the reserve team struggled SAF was always open to first-team squad players playing down a level to help out, even if it was only for a few games, yet now it just doesn't happen, there were times last season(under Warren Joyce)where it was obvious the team were short on confidence, just imagine the lift the players would've got if a few experienced players joined them, it didn't have to be long-term, just enough to get a few positive results, as it was Warren Joyce and the players just went through the motions, and it seems to have continued under Sbragia(a strange appointment)this season.
We've got the situation this year with Mkhitaryan and Lindelof(and there were others last season), both talented lads not playing at their best level, instead of leaving them on the outside to stew, why not stick them in the 23s for a couple of games to get their confidence back up, i'm sure the young lads would have benefited from having their experience on the pitch. It only needs a couple of wins, then the confidence is back, they're not the most talented bunch we've had but they are a lot better than the League position suggests.
I don't recall crediting Mourinho with the 18s doing well.
Just because Fergie had a certain way of doing things doesn't mean that it's the only way of doing things and just because Mourinho doesn't often speak about the youth in public doesn't mean he ignores them or doesn't pay them any attention, he sees them every day and even took some training sessions and gave speeches to the much younger age groups. He also has regular meetings with Butt and Murtough to discuss the academy. I know for a fact that Mourinho has been at a lot of the games so just because he's not picked up by the MUTV cameras doesn't mean he's not. The u23s already play so few games that a lot of lads struggle to get enough game time so I don't think it's all that fair to be bringing senior players down and restricting their game time even more and surely it's better for these lads development and mental strength to actually fight their own way out of trouble rather than relying on multi million pound players to come and bale them out and make it seem like the club don't think they're good enough to do it themselves. I never said you did credit Mourinho with the u18s success I said it would make as much sense to do that as it does to blame him for the u23s doing badly. If you have a problem with Mourinho's youth policies or record then fair enough but blaming him for our u23s doing badly just makes it look like you have an agenda and are looking for any excuse you can get to slate him.
Agreed. Anyway, who would have predicted that McTominay would be playing first team under Mou this season? Definitely not me.
A lot of credit to him for that. I realize Mctominay is probably not going to make it here with us. But he has been given decent amount of gametime. Little bit of a squad role which is where I think academy players are most valuable. The next step would for him to get more game time to give Matic a break.
Also think Mourinho should integrate Andreas, TFM and Tuanzebe full time into the squad rotation next year.
I don't know, maybe we're suffering currently because of a lack of investment at reserve team level over the last few years, the team has been crying out for a striker for 18 months now, if Wilson isn't available you can almost see the lads heads drop as soon as they get on the pitch because they know if they don't score first they are more than likely going to get beat - surely there must be some rough diamond playing at Championship level or lower than could be signed for say £2m who could fill in until somebody comes through the system to take up the role.
It doesn't really matter if they don't make it at United, we'll always get our money back anyway, different position, but we've done it before when we were short we brought De Laet and Veseli in to tide us over knowing fine well they were unlikely to develop into first team players for us but they served a purpose, there have been others as well.
The current 18s are as talented as we've had for many a year, but I fear for their development individually when moving up if things don't change, and drastically in the 23s
It's embarrassing to blame Mourinho for the u23 struggles. He is not Fergie type in his influence over the academy, we've Nicky Butt and Murtough who looks after the academy and underage teams. He's not the one who made the crap managerial appointment at that level.
Just when you think Mourinho is on a good run (results, transfers, contract extensions, etc.), he gets blamed for the poor U23 results. What else? U18 results? Tea lady not performing recently?
Poor poor Jose, he really can't catch a break.
Those with an anti-Mourinho agenda are truly an embarrassing lot.
Poor poor Jose, he really can't catch a break.
Those with an anti-Mourinho agenda are truly an embarrassing lot.
Jb is the man for united Youth and i would take what he says in regards to it very seriously.
Can't blame Mourinho for the under 23's, youth levels etc. He has no control over those areas, there are other people in charge of this.
I don't actually think Sbragia was a bad appointment. He did have a lot of success in his first spell.
I don't actually think Sbragia was a bad appointment. He did have a lot of success in his first spell.
I think they are a mixed bag with a few players of real potential.
I think Sbragia can be a bit of an oaf at times, valuing running around rather than intelligent play, but that is true if alot of british coaches.
I wouldn't blame Mourinho either, the team is at a transition starting to integrate the better u18's.
It's just a question of what to do with the older guys not good enough for the fringes of the first team. Loans with a view to selling might be best.
I think Sbragia can be a bit of an oaf at times, valuing running around rather than intelligent play, but that is true if alot of british coaches.
I wouldn't blame Mourinho either, the team is at a transition starting to integrate the better u18's.
It's just a question of what to do with the older guys not good enough for the fringes of the first team. Loans with a view to selling might be best.