U21s: United vs. West Ham

How's the game been and who have been our better players ?

Just tuning in..
 
Elliott said:
There's a slight difference in passing ability between our two center backs, isn't there?

Lingard, Thorpe and Vermijl had a decent half.
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Just a bit, Mcginty struggles technically to put it softly.

Passing went sloppy that last twenty minutes.
 
It's quite fluent but Powell's the more advanced of the two.
 
Good bit of play with Powell, Vermijl, Ekangemene and Cole.
 
Not been a great game since i tuned in tbh.

Sliightly better than the last one mind.
 
Januzaj already seems to be the "go to" man if something needs to be created.
 
Mcginty is a lower league player in the making if ever i've seen one.
 
Funny to think that West Ham are the club that once produced Carrick, Rio and other players of that nature looking at their u21s this season..
 
Fantastic finish from Powell. Christ he's a talent.
 
Powell scored again! 2-0 United, this one is wrapped up!

There was a huge clearance by Lingard, mucked by the defenders and allowed to bounce, Powell runs onto it, keeper comes out, is rounded and it's a goal.
 
Good finish by Powell. He is deceptively quick too.
 
Really good play from Powell. Poor defending and keeping, but great of him to chase it down and react to that after falling. Made the finish look a lot easier than it was, too.
 
It's games like that where I wish that Joyce was a bit more adventurous.

In the under 18's the players seem to express themselves a lot more. The under 21's invariably play with 6 or 7 defenders on the pitch... something that is completely alien to the senior team. It doesn't seem to me to be good preparation for the seniors...
 
samabachan said:
I think you maybe meant fluid more so than fluent?
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Considering they're synonyms, I meant both.

Powell took his second very well on his weaker foot. Put himself about admirably against the West Ham center halves but I prefer him deeper.
 
U21s: United 2 West Ham 0

United's Under-21s moved up to second in the Elite Group with a 2-0 victory against West Ham.

Warren Joyce's side collected a third consecutive clean sheet to maintain a push for the semi-finals of the competition as Nick Powell netted towards the start and end of the match.

The Reds made the perfect start when Larnell Cole fed Marnick Vermijl on the right and the full-back cut inside to shoot with his left foot. When Raphael Siegel could only push the ball out, Powell pounced to tuck home the rebound.

The visitors responded by creating some chances of their own with Paul McCallum causing problems but Dan Potts needed to be alert to head a long kick by Anders Lindegaard back to Spiegel. Cole then had a shot blocked after an incisive move with Jordan Spence clearing before Powell could profit.

Lindegaard watched a dipping attempt by Potts clear the bar and the defender, son of Steve Potts, escaped a with a clear handball inside the box at the other end. As United gained control, the impressive Powell cut a shot just wide after a neat one-two with Jesse Lingard and was unable to get his head to an accurate long ball by Tom Thorpe as half-time approached.

McCallum was rightly cautioned for elbowing Tyler Blackett after the interval as play became a little scrappy with the Hammers well drilled in their approach. Yet the hosts began to dominate as Powell was almost gifted a second goal by Spence but Spiegel was out quickly to deny the lone striker. Sean McGinty's header from a corner was then safely clutched by the Swiss keeper.

West Ham attempted to mount a late rally but failed to really trouble Lindegaard, thanks largely to the dominance of Thorpe and McGinty at the heart of the defence. Potts did hammer one shot over but was culpable at the other end when trying to head an up-and-under by Lingard back to Spiegel.

Powell won a challenge with the keeper and, despite the angle looking a little difficult, he confidently blasted into the unguarded net with his left foot to claim his fifth goal of the season at this level. Lindegaard was finally called into action deep into stoppage time to make a routine stop but this was a professional job by the Reds.

United: Lindegaard; Vermijl, Thorpe, McGinty, Blackett; Cole, Ekangaeme, Veseli, Januzaj (Lawrence 84), Lingard (James 89); Powell. Subs: Sutherland, van Velzen, Daehli.

http://www.manutd.com/en/Players-An...hester-united-v-west-ham-under-21-report.aspx
 
backofthenet said:
It's games like that where I wish that Joyce was a bit more adventurous.

In the under 18's the players seem to express themselves a lot more. The under 21's invariably play with 6 or 7 defenders on the pitch... something that is completely alien to the senior team. It doesn't seem to me to be good preparation for the seniors...
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We had five defenders playing today...basic reason is that all the forwards and midfielders are out on loan so very little in way of options in midfield. The maximum number of defenders we have played with this season is five.

So not sure what you mean by adventurous?
 
samabachan said:
Because he is not the only person in the squad. Others need their chance too, and we also have a game to win ultimately.
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We had a sub left, and the game was pretty much sew up in the 89th, but with 4 mins added he could have had a good 5 minutes, or at least someone could have.
 
gooDevil said:
We had a sub left, and the game was pretty much sew up in the 89th, but with 4 mins added he could have had a good 5 minutes, or at least someone could have.
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We are not Daehli FC though. Joyce picks a team such that the people who need to play get their chance and the team does what it has to do. Whether Daeli plays or not is really of minimal importance.
 
I suppose Joyce may have been thinking goal difference might be important, didn't want to give up a late goal?

I'm sure he had a reason, just seems odd to me, not knowing what that reason might be.
 
Mr. MUJAC said:
We had five defenders playing today...basic reason is that all the forwards and midfielders are out on loan so very little in way of options in midfield. The maximum number of defenders we have played with this season is five.

So not sure what you mean by adventurous?
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But we always seem to have a defender in the centre of midfield. Why not give an opportunity to Luke Hendrie, or play Cole in the centre and give Van Velzen a run out on the wing? It seems to me to be a very negative style. It's only a very exceptional situation where the seniors play like that, whereas it's the norm at U21 level. I struggle to see how that is good preparation for the senior team.

You look at the bench last night and there were forward thinking players available. Admittedely there have been some occasions where this has not been the case (although to my mind there is something to be said for U18's getting the chance to be on the bench in those circumstances - was great to see Daehli there) but when they are available, why put players on the pitch in the wrong positions.

Thorpe, for example did a decent job in centre midfield but has looked really classy when he's been moved back into central defence. Veseli has looked a little lost in central midfield the last couple of games.

What was more strange last night was that we were missing centre backs so had to pick a player that has been playing left back all season in McGinty, as a centre back. Why not play Veseli there?

It's my opinion that Joyce has a fundamentally more defensive outlook than either Mcguinness or Fergie and the swashbuckling style for which are known is less evident in his teams... which, again in my opinion, is less good preparation for the seniors than it could be. I believe that we should be playing with the same culture at all age groups, and to be more defensive at this age group, the one before the seniors, could stunt the development of the players at the last possible moment.
 
backofthenet said:
But we always seem to have a defender in the centre of midfield. Why not give an opportunity to Luke Hendrie, or play Cole in the centre and give Van Velzen a run out on the wing? It seems to me to be a very negative style. It's only a very exceptional situation where the seniors play like that, whereas it's the norm at U21 level. I struggle to see how that is good preparation for the senior team.

You look at the bench last night and there were forward thinking players available. Admittedely there have been some occasions where this has not been the case (although to my mind there is something to be said for U18's getting the chance to be on the bench in those circumstances - was great to see Daehli there) but when they are available, why put players on the pitch in the wrong positions.

Thorpe, for example did a decent job in centre midfield but has looked really classy when he's been moved back into central defence. Veseli has looked a little lost in central midfield the last couple of games.

What was more strange last night was that we were missing centre backs so had to pick a player that has been playing left back all season in McGinty, as a centre back. Why not play Veseli there?

It's my opinion that Joyce has a fundamentally more defensive outlook than either Mcguinness or Fergie and the swashbuckling style for which are known is less evident in his teams... which, again in my opinion, is less good preparation for the seniors than it could be. I believe that we should be playing with the same culture at all age groups, and to be more defensive at this age group, the one before the seniors, could stunt the development of the players at the last possible moment.
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You make a fair point about dropping a defender from midfield and playing a more attacking formation.

However, it's swings and roundabouts.

If he plays Cole as you suggest and gives Van Velzen a run then the defenders don't get games. Fornasier didn't play last night for instance.

If you look at the opposing line-ups with Liverpool a good example...they had loads of first team experience in that side. Van Velzen isn't strong enough to play against that sort of team. If he was then Joyce would play him. You also don't want to bring U/18's en masse into these games.

There is no point playing a weakened team which then means we are on the defensive for most of the game as that is not good preparation for the first team either.

The jump from U/18 to U/21 is quite a big step up which is why Hendrie, Lawrence, Van Velzen and Blackett haven't been getting much action. Next year will see them get more games.

Cole will never be a DM so playing him there out of position kind of contradicts your argument. McGinty came to us as a centre-half and was moved to left back so he can play either role. Most central defenders can play fullback these days so it's no big deal.

Many regulars feel that Thorpe looks a lot better in defence but the club rate him highly as a DM too...so understand why Joyce does that.

Veseli is the only player who is a defender and being played as a DM that raises an eyebrow...but we will never know what the lad can do until we try people out in different positions.

Januzaj is a good example of if a player is ready to be pushed on they will be.

I think we play an attacking game in the U/21's and have no issues with Warren Joyce's team selection in the main.
 
Mr. MUJAC said:
Cole will never be a DM so playing him there out of position kind of contradicts your argument. McGinty came to us as a centre-half and was moved to left back so he can play either role. Most central defenders can play fullback these days so it's no big deal.
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My argument is that I don't see the need for two defensive minded midfielders. We had Ekangamene on the pitch last night to do the defensive work so why not put Cole in there to pull the strings a bit more? He's certainly got the talent.

We don't play with two defensive midfielders at any other level (that I'm aware of... you see the U16's etc so will have more of an idea than I do) so I would prefer that we didn't at this level as it is not ideal preparation.

That said, Joyce is obviously getting results, and there is something to be said for getting the lads used to winning at this level.
 
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