The progress is clear. Them being any nearer to cementing a first team spot isn't. I'd be surprised if any of this team that started this final today are first team regulars over the next 3 seasons. Worth a tenner I suppose.
U21s Final: Chelsea vs. United
- Thread starter gooDevil
- Start date
It was actually Phil Neville on MUTV, sounded like Gary to me, even though I had heard it was going to be Phil.
Chelsea were quite good, we struggled to get any offense going as the game went on. Too willing to sit back at times, I think we gave them just a bit too much space.
Shame about Wilson and Rothwell, we especially needed Rothwell he's been the creative fulcrum in this run imho.
Shame about Wilson and Rothwell, we especially needed Rothwell he's been the creative fulcrum in this run imho.
Like the look of Pearson. It's lovely to see someone getting about in midfield with a bit of attitude. I've missed that.
Their #10 was a cnut. A play acting cnut.
To me it looked a pretty even game but the Chelsea team seemed more mature.
Don't hold too much hope for our kids if I'm really honest. I can see maybe one or 2 possibly going on to be useful squad players for us (which is a bonus in itself) but I didn't see any stars out there.
Their #10 was a cnut. A play acting cnut.
To me it looked a pretty even game but the Chelsea team seemed more mature.
Don't hold too much hope for our kids if I'm really honest. I can see maybe one or 2 possibly going on to be useful squad players for us (which is a bonus in itself) but I didn't see any stars out there.
Nathan Ake for chelsea looked like a player in the making yesterday
Yeah, I thought he looked like the most technically gifted player in the Chelsea team. Their number 10 who kept dropping deep was very good as well.
On Perreira, the Chelsea right back had him in his pocket the entire match. Having said that, he got precious little support from his fullback.
On Perreira, the Chelsea right back had him in his pocket the entire match. Having said that, he got precious little support from his fullback.
Love how people began to write off youngsters after a match when we're basically tactically outplayed and our only striker was unfit.
A.Pereira was disappointed this season but people need to remember he's only 18 and was playing out of position.
A.Pereira was disappointed this season but people need to remember he's only 18 and was playing out of position.
Was working when this was on, just watched it on record.
The result was the one I expected. Chelsea looked fitter, had a much bigger (and more balanced) pool of players to pick from, and had a significantly older average age despite the presence of a couple of young tyros like Musonda. Our CB partnership was scraped together at the last minute, comprising one player just back off loan and one from the U18s who had never played together before. And the only striker in our entire U21 squad was knackered from the start (again, as most knew he would be) and got injured early in the second half. And one half of our key CM duo was injured, which was not only a blow in itself but also gave Pearson much more to do. In general, you could see the tiredness and the injuries taking a toll throughout the United team.
So Chelsea won, and deserved their win. But you could still see more than enough to know that progress is continuing as hoped for. Pearson was exceptional, despite losing his regular CM partner. For the most part I thought Keane and McNair did a good job, and Chelsea didn't get too many openings - the vast majority of their efforts were shots from range or through bodies (including the excellent first goal). Lawrence and Wilson didn't get enough of the ball because of the dominance Chelsea won through the superb performances of Ake and Loftus-Cheek.
The only actual negative notes for United, in my opinion, were another unconvincing showing from Pereira - talent obvious, as ever, but unable to impose himself on the game - and some poor decision-making from Varela when he might otherwise have been one of our most dangerous attacking outlets.
Other than that, everything seems to be on track. No-one who actually knows anything about youth football would have expected United to win this, we were playing from the position of clear underdogs given the different approaches at the two clubs to managing young players. Our big achievement was in getting to the final in the first place after that scrappy start when we were trying to sort out loans for the older players.
And nice that we got a lovely goal too.
The result was the one I expected. Chelsea looked fitter, had a much bigger (and more balanced) pool of players to pick from, and had a significantly older average age despite the presence of a couple of young tyros like Musonda. Our CB partnership was scraped together at the last minute, comprising one player just back off loan and one from the U18s who had never played together before. And the only striker in our entire U21 squad was knackered from the start (again, as most knew he would be) and got injured early in the second half. And one half of our key CM duo was injured, which was not only a blow in itself but also gave Pearson much more to do. In general, you could see the tiredness and the injuries taking a toll throughout the United team.
So Chelsea won, and deserved their win. But you could still see more than enough to know that progress is continuing as hoped for. Pearson was exceptional, despite losing his regular CM partner. For the most part I thought Keane and McNair did a good job, and Chelsea didn't get too many openings - the vast majority of their efforts were shots from range or through bodies (including the excellent first goal). Lawrence and Wilson didn't get enough of the ball because of the dominance Chelsea won through the superb performances of Ake and Loftus-Cheek.
The only actual negative notes for United, in my opinion, were another unconvincing showing from Pereira - talent obvious, as ever, but unable to impose himself on the game - and some poor decision-making from Varela when he might otherwise have been one of our most dangerous attacking outlets.
Other than that, everything seems to be on track. No-one who actually knows anything about youth football would have expected United to win this, we were playing from the position of clear underdogs given the different approaches at the two clubs to managing young players. Our big achievement was in getting to the final in the first place after that scrappy start when we were trying to sort out loans for the older players.
And nice that we got a lovely goal too.
No way.Out of 13 players they used,they had 4 U17s (first-years scholars - Musonda,Aina,Colkett,Palmer),4 U18s (Feruz,Cheeks,Christensen,Ssenwankambo),4 U19s and 1 U20s(Blackman the GK).Lot of them already had good amount of experience at this level despite their tender age.I might not sound like a United fan here but rarely you can find a Chelsea side older than their opponents at any youth level.
One lost doesn't make us a poor side though.We'll have a laugh at some here when a good number of youngsters from this side make the grade which I'm confident they will.
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Yep, fed up of this myth that United always has the youngest underage teams. We had 24 year old Amos and 21 year old Varela and Michael Keane for starters, all of whom were older than the entire Chelsea side, we had Lawrence who is also the same age as Chelsea's oldest player, 1/3 of our team was foreign imports which is very similar to their team last night. We had less u18 scholars on the pitch than they had u17s, for crying out loud!
I bet if you tallied it up, their team had a good 18 months or more younger average age than ours did.
I bet if you tallied it up, their team had a good 18 months or more younger average age than ours did.
They're hardly the one to criticise when it comes to importing too much foreigners for the youth teams.It would be Manchester City and Arsenal for that matter.Their youth budget is much bigger than us though due to their sugar daddy nature.
Holding back older players has been a big criticism of mine. I think we should be more like Chelsea trying to push through more 17-18 year olds into the U21s. At 19-21 I don't think there is much left to offer from the U21 league. They need to be stepping up into senior football by then.
Chelsea won the U18 Youth Cup as well which just goes to show strong their youth set up is!
Oh come on you can't be serious. Please tell me you're not basing this post on just one match and you've seen more to be able to come to those conclusions.
I'm not a regular watcher of the reserves, no. I've seen them all a handful of times here and there. Not the hugest sample size.
Who do you think has what it takes to become a regular in our first team?
Well for me the exceptional standout talent is Wilson by far so I think he is about as much of a certainty as they come. Not for one minute suggesting that he "will" definitely become a first team played, more that I think he is the most likely.
I don't really know as much about Lawrence, but he seems to be rated quite highly and has been impressive on the ball when I've seen of him so has potential to possibly carve a career. Although maybe a premier league loan next year beckons for him.
Charni Ekagamene has become a recent personal favourite of mine and I think he's a natural centre back because he's such an excellent reader of the game. Likewise, I was a big fan of Michael Keane before he went on his loans and he has really impressed in the championship, he's definitely a premier league player and I can certainly see him having a future here. But then I can say the same about the likes of Thorpe, Varela.
But if you're looking for a potential superstar then Wilsons your man. Unless they have that special special something about them, it's not so easy to predict who makes it here or not until they get a chance in the first team. For example, Janko is a beast with power and pace but would he be so beastly if he was playing against people his own size or bigger than him?
I hope that some of these youngsters go on tour this summer, because it's obviously a lot easier to play well against other kids, it's a whole different ball game when they're playing against men.
I could name every single player in our u21s and find a reason why they could be good enough for the first team, but I don't have the access to see them in training with the first team so you don't really get the full picture. Take Pereira for example, has all the talent in the world but he doesn't dominate any matches, in fact recently I haven't been impressed with him at all but he has talent, how much does he apply himself in training? I don't know the answer to that one, if he works really hard then next year he could transform into a special talent, right now he seems to be trying too much and it's not working for him.
But yeah, in summary, Wilsons the superstar of the team and there is genuine quality amongst the rest of them, it just all depends on which one of them takes the chance when they get it.
I don't really know as much about Lawrence, but he seems to be rated quite highly and has been impressive on the ball when I've seen of him so has potential to possibly carve a career. Although maybe a premier league loan next year beckons for him.
Charni Ekagamene has become a recent personal favourite of mine and I think he's a natural centre back because he's such an excellent reader of the game. Likewise, I was a big fan of Michael Keane before he went on his loans and he has really impressed in the championship, he's definitely a premier league player and I can certainly see him having a future here. But then I can say the same about the likes of Thorpe, Varela.
But if you're looking for a potential superstar then Wilsons your man. Unless they have that special special something about them, it's not so easy to predict who makes it here or not until they get a chance in the first team. For example, Janko is a beast with power and pace but would he be so beastly if he was playing against people his own size or bigger than him?
I hope that some of these youngsters go on tour this summer, because it's obviously a lot easier to play well against other kids, it's a whole different ball game when they're playing against men.
I could name every single player in our u21s and find a reason why they could be good enough for the first team, but I don't have the access to see them in training with the first team so you don't really get the full picture. Take Pereira for example, has all the talent in the world but he doesn't dominate any matches, in fact recently I haven't been impressed with him at all but he has talent, how much does he apply himself in training? I don't know the answer to that one, if he works really hard then next year he could transform into a special talent, right now he seems to be trying too much and it's not working for him.
But yeah, in summary, Wilsons the superstar of the team and there is genuine quality amongst the rest of them, it just all depends on which one of them takes the chance when they get it.
See I don't think Wilson is good enough to be a striker for a club of our size and he isn't quick enough to perhaps take advantage of when some young players get chances in wide areas of the first team. I also don't think he's cute enough or subtle enough to play as the #10. With competition so hot in that area of the pitch for clubs like ours then you've gotta be a bit special unless your happy spending your career as 4th or 5th choice.
I actually forgot about Keane when I made that post. I like him. I think he lacks that little bit of extra to be a starter for us but I definitely see him having a future in the squad.
Lawrence? Nah. Tidy player but ultimately not good enough. I think he's 20 now isn't he?
My personal favourite is Pearson. I think he's got the best chance.
I actually forgot about Keane when I made that post. I like him. I think he lacks that little bit of extra to be a starter for us but I definitely see him having a future in the squad.
Lawrence? Nah. Tidy player but ultimately not good enough. I think he's 20 now isn't he?
My personal favourite is Pearson. I think he's got the best chance.
Are you talking about mental quickness with Wilson or something? You don't think Wilson is quick? Have you ever seen him before last night? Are you possibly thinking of Will Keane?
Obviously there are no guarantees with football but if Wilson hasn't shown enough at 18 to suggest he can progress to an acceptable level for a Senior United player then we might as well pack it in.
Doesn't look particularly quick to me. Granted he does have that Darren Fletcher running style which makes him look slower than he probably is but I don't think he's particularly quick at all.
Sorry no way, completely disagree with you on Wilson. He is very quick, and can beat players for fun when he goes on his blistering runs.
And I like Pearson, I tipped him to win academy player of the season last year but he's at least 2 years away from having a shot IMO. This year was a bit wasted for him because he didn't get so much playing time for the first half of the season and when he came into the side he wasn't the same Pearson IMO. I think next year he has a full year with the u21s before he's ready for a loan, maybe even first half of the season with the u21s and see how he progresses but he's at least 2 years away I reckon.
I think he's already ready for a loan.People think you have to be sort of tearing up the U21s league apart to be ready for that but in fact looks at Lawrence last season for example, you don't really have to.The key always is finding the right team.
I'd love us to send Rothwell and Pearson to a same team next season although it's very hard to find a team that has a need to replace both of their CMs.
Lawrence was disappointed last night but watching him a bit on loan, I'm sure we didn't see the best of him.
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Fair enough. I can guarantee you that he is not just fast but absurdly fast to the point that it seems almost ridiculous at points. Off the top of my head I can remember two goals this season where he has literally ran from the halfway line, with nobody managing to get anywhere near him, and scored goals such is his pace.
I don't mean to be rude but if you haven't watched a player enough to realise his prodigious pace, a fairly easy to spot attribute, then it would be wise not to pass judgement on how you see their career panning out.
You can't have seen much of him then. You've basically described everything he isn't. He is definitely quick, great to play on the shoulder of the last defender because he's likely to run off him when played through and when one on one with the keeper you'd bet on him scoring. He's an clever and unpredictable player too which makes him hard to defend against. He's certainly the most likely to make it into the first team barring injury affecting his development. Aside from him, from last night I really rate Micheal Keane and I hope he's in and around the first team next season. Same goes for Lawrence and Varela. Lingard obviously didn't play last night but I've watched a lot of him on his loans and hope he's part of the first team plans for next season as well.
Loftus-Cheek was amazing, he has it all. Chelsea have a prodigy on their hands there.
Baker impressed and so did Ake. Their no. 9 was shocking.
Perriera is a cm or a 10, he struggled to influence the game out wide, same as against Liverpool bar his wonder goal. Chelsea's youngsters were just better than ours. A shame that most of them most likely won't pay for the first team. But they have some real players on their hands. Janko reminds me of old school Tony V, the direct and powerful runner.
Baker impressed and so did Ake. Their no. 9 was shocking.
Perriera is a cm or a 10, he struggled to influence the game out wide, same as against Liverpool bar his wonder goal. Chelsea's youngsters were just better than ours. A shame that most of them most likely won't pay for the first team. But they have some real players on their hands. Janko reminds me of old school Tony V, the direct and powerful runner.
Actually I think McNair was better than M.Keane last night (of course only on the basis of that single match).What do you think of him?These kind of matches really suit him IMO.I think he'd likely to struggle against teams that use a lot of crosses and headers.
Yeh fair enough, like I said I haven't seen much more than a handful of games and with last night being the first I saw in person perhaps influenced me more.
Why not? At the end of the day you can only judge what you've watched. Like I said earlier on it's only a small sample of games but that's just how I've seen it so far.
I suspect Keane will be what with Rio and Vidic leaving. I certainly hope so anyway. With Varela I dunno, he still has a long way to go but thankfully his pace rescues his positioning most of the time.
Whoever told you that was very, very wrong.
Amos 24, Varela 21, McNair 19, M Keane 21, James 20, Janko 18, Ekangamene 20, Pearson 19, A Pereira 18, Lawrence 20, Wilson 18
Average age of 19.8 or 19.4 if you don't include your goalie.
Blackman 20, Ssewankambo 18, Aina 17, Christensen 18, Nditi 19, Loftus-Cheek 18, Baker 19, Ake 19, Swift 18, Feruz 18, C Musonda 17.
Average age of 18.2 including our goalie, who was also our only player over the age of 19.
And yes, I know none of our lot will ever set foot on the pitch at Stamford Bridge but that's another arguement, we didn't win last night because we were "significantly older" (we were actually significantly younger), it was because we were better.
I wasn't just basing my opinion on last nights game, more in general. Keane has a bit of Evans about him imo. Good playing out from the back and bringing the ball forward. McNair has been brilliant alongside Charni at CB this season, I don't know if it'll end up being his long term position though. The fact that we had the best defensive record in the league (I think?) with a CM and an AM playing at CB though is testament to how well they've done. Having Pearson in front of them helps too.
I'd tend to reserve judgement, personally. It's hard enough when you have actually seen them a fair bit to know how they'll develop let alone when you haven't.
It's hard to gauge McNair's potential due to the relative recentness of his physical and positional transformation, but I think he's starting to look a bit special. He's a quality footballer and he's twice the defender he was at beginning of the season.
I think it will be. He increasingly looks the part on a match to a match basis.
I said this about Varela at the start of the season, but you have to consider he was settling into a new team, getting used to his team mates, new style of play, language, country etc. I think he's been brilliant the last few months and his positioning has been excellent. Really seems to read the game well and loves to defend first imo. He isn't a fullback who just wants to bomb forward and neglect the actual defending.
Could well be. It'll be interesting to see how/where he is used next season.
I'm not convinced Chelsea are a better team from one game, they did have a lot of possession but didn't create a hat-full of chances.
I might count up how many points the team had after all the older players left and the U18s moved up, to go from 7th to 3rd probably means we collected more points in that time than any other team.
But we don't have great depth, we need a healthy Wilson and Rothwell, among many others, to win against another top team.
Personally I've never rated Michael Keane that highly and I thought Charni and McNair look to be a much stronger pairing. But obviously injury was the main reason for the switch.
We looked much better against Liverpool.
I might count up how many points the team had after all the older players left and the U18s moved up, to go from 7th to 3rd probably means we collected more points in that time than any other team.
But we don't have great depth, we need a healthy Wilson and Rothwell, among many others, to win against another top team.
Personally I've never rated Michael Keane that highly and I thought Charni and McNair look to be a much stronger pairing. But obviously injury was the main reason for the switch.
We looked much better against Liverpool.
I don't know if any of you guys read what Joyce said, but one of the reasons for Lawrence's poor showing was that he was carrying a knock for much of the game along with Wilson. No wonder both weren't that effective on the attack, and this explains why Lawrence didn't do that well for much of the match.
Barclays U21 Premier League final
Old Trafford, 14 May
MANCHESTER UNITED 1
(Lawrence 12)
CHELSEA 2
(Musonda 22, Baker 79)
Attendance: 13,203
14/05/2014 21:30, Report by Adam Marshall
1 of 2Next
U21s: United 1 Chelsea 2
Manchester United missed out on retaining the Barclays Under-21 Premier League trophy as Chelsea came from behind to triumph 2-1 in the final in front of over 13,000 fans at Old Trafford.
Tom Lawrence put the holders in front with a well-worked strike but Charly Musonda equalised and Lewis Baker hit the winner in the closing stages.
The visitors, who topped the league, began brightly with Baker's raking drive bringing a flying save out of Ben Amos within five minutes. The highly-rated midfielder then produced another effort but, again, Amos was equal to the task.
James Wilson had United's first attempt, only for it to strike Lawrence, but the two combined to great effect soon afterwards. Saidy Janko sprinted down the right to supply a precise centre that was touched off instantly by Wilson for his fellow first-team debutant against Hull City, Lawrence, who showed superb skill to set up a curling shot beyond Jamal Blackman.
The lead lasted only 10 minutes however, as Musonda cut in from the left to bury a low drive after being afforded too much space. The goalscorer provided a pass for John Swift to prod wide while the Reds' brightest moment before the interval came when Paddy McNair had a shout for a penalty following a challenge by Ola Aina.
Chelsea came out of the traps with a purpose from the restart but Amos caught a bouncing effort by Aina. Ruben Loftus-Cheek teed up Baker for a great chance, only for the no.10 to sky it high over the bar. With the chances continuing to come at Amos' end, the keeper made a fine stop with his legs to deny Loftus-Cheek after he glided through unchecked.
Wilson made way for James Weir, clearly hobbling, and the Reds struggled to test Blackman. Islam Feruz and a deflected Isak Ssweankambo shot threatened for the Londoners before the game turned on a critical minute. Ben Pearson won the ball expertly to advance through and shot too close to Blackman and, seconds later, Charni Ekangamene's touch fell
into the path of Baker, who guided a clinical finish into the corner of the net.
Michael Keane headed over the bar as Warren Joyce's youngsters tried to rally with Amos going up for a corner that ended in Weir having a snap-shot saved by Blackman. Substitute Tyler Blackett had one final attempt that forced a great save out of Blackman deep into stoppage time. However, there was no way past a well-organised defence as United relinquished the trophy, but not without a splendid effort all season.
United: Amos; Varela, McNair, M.Keane, James (Blackett 82); Janko, Ekangamene, Pearson, Lawrence (Harrop 86), A.Pereira; Wilson (Weir 68). Subs not used: J.Pereira, Willock.
Old Trafford, 14 May
MANCHESTER UNITED 1
(Lawrence 12)
CHELSEA 2
(Musonda 22, Baker 79)
Attendance: 13,203
14/05/2014 21:30, Report by Adam Marshall
1 of 2Next
U21s: United 1 Chelsea 2
Manchester United missed out on retaining the Barclays Under-21 Premier League trophy as Chelsea came from behind to triumph 2-1 in the final in front of over 13,000 fans at Old Trafford.
Tom Lawrence put the holders in front with a well-worked strike but Charly Musonda equalised and Lewis Baker hit the winner in the closing stages.
The visitors, who topped the league, began brightly with Baker's raking drive bringing a flying save out of Ben Amos within five minutes. The highly-rated midfielder then produced another effort but, again, Amos was equal to the task.
James Wilson had United's first attempt, only for it to strike Lawrence, but the two combined to great effect soon afterwards. Saidy Janko sprinted down the right to supply a precise centre that was touched off instantly by Wilson for his fellow first-team debutant against Hull City, Lawrence, who showed superb skill to set up a curling shot beyond Jamal Blackman.
The lead lasted only 10 minutes however, as Musonda cut in from the left to bury a low drive after being afforded too much space. The goalscorer provided a pass for John Swift to prod wide while the Reds' brightest moment before the interval came when Paddy McNair had a shout for a penalty following a challenge by Ola Aina.
Chelsea came out of the traps with a purpose from the restart but Amos caught a bouncing effort by Aina. Ruben Loftus-Cheek teed up Baker for a great chance, only for the no.10 to sky it high over the bar. With the chances continuing to come at Amos' end, the keeper made a fine stop with his legs to deny Loftus-Cheek after he glided through unchecked.
Wilson made way for James Weir, clearly hobbling, and the Reds struggled to test Blackman. Islam Feruz and a deflected Isak Ssweankambo shot threatened for the Londoners before the game turned on a critical minute. Ben Pearson won the ball expertly to advance through and shot too close to Blackman and, seconds later, Charni Ekangamene's touch fell
into the path of Baker, who guided a clinical finish into the corner of the net.
Michael Keane headed over the bar as Warren Joyce's youngsters tried to rally with Amos going up for a corner that ended in Weir having a snap-shot saved by Blackman. Substitute Tyler Blackett had one final attempt that forced a great save out of Blackman deep into stoppage time. However, there was no way past a well-organised defence as United relinquished the trophy, but not without a splendid effort all season.
United: Amos; Varela, McNair, M.Keane, James (Blackett 82); Janko, Ekangamene, Pearson, Lawrence (Harrop 86), A.Pereira; Wilson (Weir 68). Subs not used: J.Pereira, Willock.