Tyler Dibling

Ali Dia said:
My biggest worry with these signings is that we turn into Spurs or Brighton. Better run than we've been for sure but is it a winning approach? I'm afraid we will get stuck challenging for top 4 for the next decade which isn't really much better than finishing 2nd/3rd and then 8th or whatever. I just hope we have enough clout and know how to find the real game changing players too when they come on the market and then the combination of all of that and hopefully being able to hold onto our best players may see us eventually challenging again. To be fair the main challenge here is to finally get some value for money. We already spend enough to be a very serious CL club but we are playing catch up now to even the likes of Villa Forest Newcastle etc etc. We need to be smart and build something sustainable and I think we may be in for another rough few years
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Newcastle are 7th and I can't see either of them getting near their side. If we start buying players like Dibbling and Delap then I can't see us ever getting top 4 again. We need to be signing players like Victor Osimhen.
 
dubplate warrior said:
Disagree. He's clearly good enough for the premier league. Makes no sense for him to spend another two seasons in the championship.
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I disagree. I think his time in the Championship really brought the likes of Grealish along and think it could be the same for Dibling. I think he'd also develop his confidence and the lower level would hopefully get him scoring and assisting which has been really missing from his game.
 
Bojan Djordjic said:
I disagree. I think his time in the Championship really brought the likes of Grealish along and think it could be the same for Dibling. I think he'd also develop his confidence and the lower level would hopefully get him scoring and assisting which has been really missing from his game.
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Did Grealish have a season of premier league experience? Whilst Southampton are terrible, he's been their best player.

He's looked good against teams in the top 6 multiple times. I can't see why a spell back in the Championship would be beneficial for his development.
 
dubplate warrior said:
Did Grealish have a season of premier league experience? Whilst Southampton are terrible, he's been their best player.

He's looked good against teams in the top 6 multiple times. I can't see why a spell back in the Championship would be beneficial for his development.
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Who Grealish? He had three seasons where he played minutes in the PL before they were relegated to the Championship and Grealish really kicked off.

He looks good because he's a brilliant dribbler but there's other sides of his game that he really needs to refine so he can get that end product. I think at a value of £35mn (which I wasn't aware of when I posted), he's far more likely to move to another PL team but I think it wouldn't have done him a bit of harm to spend a season in the Champo.
 
Ali Dia said:
My biggest worry with these signings is that we turn into Spurs or Brighton. Better run than we've been for sure but is it a winning approach? I'm afraid we will get stuck challenging for top 4 for the next decade which isn't really much better than finishing 2nd/3rd and then 8th or whatever. I just hope we have enough clout and know how to find the real game changing players too when they come on the market and then the combination of all of that and hopefully being able to hold onto our best players may see us eventually challenging again. To be fair the main challenge here is to finally get some value for money. We already spend enough to be a very serious CL club but we are playing catch up now to even the likes of Villa Forest Newcastle etc etc. We need to be smart and build something sustainable and I think we may be in for another rough few years
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Well there's already talk of us being in for Cunha, who I think is a game changer in our front line. What I think we want us a young pacy winger/dribbler who can rotate on the right sided 10 and the RWB with Amad. For that, Dibling makes a lot of sense.
 
Probably has been mentioned but for what it's worth I heard an interview with their former manager Russell Martin and he was saying Dibling is the most talented player he's ever seen. Thought it was interesting someone that's worked first hand with him day in day out
 
Cutch said:
Probably has been mentioned but for what it's worth I heard an interview with their former manager Russell Martin and he was saying Dibling is the most talented player he's ever seen. Thought it was interesting someone that's worked first hand with him day in day out
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I think he’s a talented player. Presumably Martin is talking from a personal perspective, and I don’t imagine he has had the opportunity to work with too many talented players.
 
Ali Dia said:
My biggest worry with these signings is that we turn into Spurs or Brighton. Better run than we've been for sure but is it a winning approach? I'm afraid we will get stuck challenging for top 4 for the next decade which isn't really much better than finishing 2nd/3rd and then 8th or whatever. I just hope we have enough clout and know how to find the real game changing players too when they come on the market and then the combination of all of that and hopefully being able to hold onto our best players may see us eventually challenging again. To be fair the main challenge here is to finally get some value for money. We already spend enough to be a very serious CL club but we are playing catch up now to even the likes of Villa Forest Newcastle etc etc. We need to be smart and build something sustainable and I think we may be in for another rough few years
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I understand your sentiment. But he's attainable player for a good value in his breakthrough, pre-breakthrough season. Player profile is also very good, can play out wide and has a good frame to play through the middle. Is direct and can carry the ball well, we don't have player of this ilk now. Sure he's not guaranteed to deliver now, but we have seen flop like Sancho and Antony who were not able to get. He's also one of the Soton's best players getting valuable experience each game. He's not an academy graduate to play his first senior minutes. He's already a senior player.
 
Poborsky's hair said:
I understand your sentiment. But he's attainable player for a good value in his breakthrough, pre-breakthrough season. Player profile is also very good, can play out wide and has a good frame to play through the middle. Is direct and can carry the ball well, we don't have player of this ilk now. Sure he's not guaranteed to deliver now, but we have seen flop like Sancho and Antony who were not able to get. He's also one of the Soton's best players getting valuable experience each game. He's not an academy graduate to play his first senior minutes. He's already a senior player.
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He definitely cannot play in our wide positions, not close to athletic enough.

It's really 50/50 if he will be good enough.
 
L1nk said:
Well there's already talk of us being in for Cunha, who I think is a game changer in our front line. What I think we want us a young pacy winger/dribbler who can rotate on the right sided 10 and the RWB with Amad. For that, Dibling makes a lot of sense.
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He's not pacy though.
 
We should not be signing players like this to be main players with main responsibilities. He needs development time so signing and loaning out is preferable, not signing and expecting them to start every game.

It wouldn't be long before all here are voicing concerns over his ability and consistency and requesting he be sold. No top club splashes big money on unproven youngsters and just expects them to do so much.
 
dubplate warrior said:
Is he? I'm pretty sure Garnacho can't beat a man or pass like Dibling. What exactly is it that he's better than him at?
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Yeah I get a sense here that you're judging Garnacho at his worst, and Dibling at his best. Garnacho is very good at beating his man, he has a good work rate and stamina, he is very competent with both feet and when on form (hes obvioulsy in a poor spell) he has shown some real quality. His experience to date also has to count for something. In any case, Im not directly comparing them, my concern is that if a talent like Garnacho cant be coached into this 10 role, then why should we expect that Dibling can? I havent seen much of Dibling that points to him being a naturally better fit there than for example Garnacho. If its going to be another case of a talented player who we have to keep saying his better as a true wide player, then there's no point in signing him.
 
SER19 said:
Yeah I get a sense here that you're judging Garnacho at his worst, and Dibling at his best. Garnacho is very good at beating his man, he has a good work rate and stamina, he is very competent with both feet and when on form (hes obvioulsy in a poor spell) he has shown some real quality. His experience to date also has to count for something. In any case, Im not directly comparing them, my concern is that if a talent like Garnacho cant be coached into this 10 role, then why should we expect that Dibling can? I havent seen much of Dibling that points to him being a naturally better fit there than for example Garnacho. If its going to be another case of a talented player who we have to keep saying his better as a true wide player, then there's no point in signing him.
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Statistically Garnacho is terrible at beating his man. When did he show what you have written?
 
Hammondo said:
Statistically Garnacho is terrible at beating his man. When did he show what you have written?
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Very often before this new role, which very clearly doesn't given the same scope to beat a man as a conventional wide player. He's got great pace and beating a man isnt just about dribbling, which he can do, but also about running in behind and essentially just getting away from your man. Team style has a huge impact on stats like dribbing - as always stats can be so so limiting. I think it's very clear Garnacho can beat a man, albeit hes in a poor run of form and struggling in this new tighter role. My point is I have no reason to think Dibling will suddenly excel there as he too seems like a player at his best in a wide role.
 
SER19 said:
Very often before this new role, which very clearly doesn't given the same scope to beat a man as a conventional wide player. He's got great pace and beating a man isnt just about dribbling, which he can do, but also about running in behind and essentially just getting away from your man. Team style has a huge impact on stats like dribbing - as always stats can be so so limiting. I think it's very clear Garnacho can beat a man, albeit hes in a poor run of form and struggling in this new tighter role. My point is I have no reason to think Dibling will suddenly excel there as he too seems like a player at his best in a wide role.
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He wasn't doing it before Amorim came. His stats last season were not good for it.
 
Hammondo said:
He wasn't doing it before Amorim came. His stats last season were not good for it.
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He had the most successful dribbles at United last season, at 48, one less than Saka at arsenal. Extremely narrow to compare him to players at other clubs on the basis of one stat as dribbling is either encouraged or not. Youre placing too much emphasis on stats in my opinion, I suspect if he played at forest like elanga, the number of dribbles would go way up. This is the last time I'll say it as I find it really tiresome, but stats are a useful part of a much more complicated picture when discussing football. The stats that are undeniably significant are goals for strikers for example. Other stuff simply has too many variables to be droned on about. But since you brought up stats, he had more dribbles than any teammate last season.
 
SER19 said:
He had the most successful dribbles at United last season, at 48, one less than Saka at arsenal. Extremely narrow to compare him to players at other clubs on the basis of one stat as dribbling is either encouraged or not. Youre placing too much emphasis on stats in my opinion, I suspect if he played at forest like elanga, the number of dribbles would go way up. This is the last time I'll say it as I find it really tiresome, but stats are a useful part of a much more complicated picture when discussing football. The stats that are undeniably significant are goals for strikers for example. Other stuff simply has too many variables to be droned on about. But since you brought up stats, he had more dribbles than any teammate last season.
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That stat tells us nothing without knowing the number of attempts.

I struggle to think of any players last season who were at all good at dribbling.
 
Hammondo said:
That stat tells us nothing without knowing the number of attempts.

I struggle to think of any players last season who were at all good at dribbling.
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Well that's handy as I think stats dont tell much at all in any case. I wrote about him beating a man in direct reply to a poster who brought up that part of his game, and in the context of other parts of his game. I cannot tell you how boring I find getting into it about stats. Im happy to agree to disagree and stand by my reply to the other poster.
 
SER19 said:
He had the most successful dribbles at United last season, at 48, one less than Saka at arsenal. Extremely narrow to compare him to players at other clubs on the basis of one stat as dribbling is either encouraged or not. Youre placing too much emphasis on stats in my opinion, I suspect if he played at forest like elanga, the number of dribbles would go way up. This is the last time I'll say it as I find it really tiresome, but stats are a useful part of a much more complicated picture when discussing football. The stats that are undeniably significant are goals for strikers for example. Other stuff simply has too many variables to be droned on about. But since you brought up stats, he had more dribbles than any teammate last season.
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Here are his stats:
https://www.statmuse.com/fc/player/alejandro-garnacho-6980/career-stats

Best season is about 40% success, dibling this season over 50.
 
Hammondo said:
Here are his stats:
https://www.statmuse.com/fc/player/alejandro-garnacho-6980/career-stats

Best season is about 40% success, dibling this season over 50.
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You're surely winding me up now? Not only did i never say garnacho was a better dribbler than dibling but I've repeatedly said how limited stats are, (wan bissaka ranked 26th best in league in dribbles this season) and lastly my initial post was about beating one's man not just dribbling.

No offence but it feels like im engaging with a machine here who can't make a sentence that doesn't have the word stat in it. Ive genuinely said all i can say on this to you in the last few posts
 
SER19 said:
You're surely winding me up now? Not only did i never say garnacho was a better dribbler than dibling but I've repeatedly said how limited stats are, (wan bissaka ranked 26th best in league in dribbles this season) and lastly my initial post was about beating one's man not just dribbling.

No offence but it feels like im engaging with a machine here who can't make a sentence that doesn't have the word stat in it. Ive genuinely said all i can say on this to you in the last few posts
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Alright, fine. My point is that imo hes never been good at dribbling, he is neither that fast or that skillful.
 
Hammondo said:
Alright, fine. My point is that imo hes never been good at dribbling, he is neither that fast or that skillful.
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I just disagree on that. On current form i certainly don't, but i still think hes a really promising young player, in a mess of United. 10 goals this season too is a decent return. One thing that's different to stats is speed - im sure garnacho got clocked at 5th highest speed in league a couple of seasons ago. He's fast, that's clear to see. If where hes at now is his level then obviously sell him, I just think he has more to him
 
SER19 said:
I just disagree on that. On current form i certainly don't, but i still think hes a really promising young player, in a mess of United. 10 goals this season too is a decent return. One thing that's different to stats is speed - im sure garnacho got clocked at 5th highest speed in league a couple of seasons ago. He's fast, that's clear to see. If where hes at now is his level then obviously sell him, I just think he has more to him
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10 goals in 50 games, when a bunch came in the EFL Cup vs dire competition.

I am not saying he wont be good, and I am not saying he will, but this belief, this overrating, it annoys me. He is pretty fast, far from lightning, and he has some sharpness but has not shown the skill to make use of it. This is not unique.
 
SER19 said:
I just disagree on that. On current form i certainly don't, but i still think hes a really promising young player, in a mess of United. 10 goals this season too is a decent return. One thing that's different to stats is speed - im sure garnacho got clocked at 5th highest speed in league a couple of seasons ago. He's fast, that's clear to see. If where hes at now is his level then obviously sell him, I just think he has more to him
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He’s fast, but not Valencia fast, nor particularly strong. He’s surely faster than Saka, for instance. However, when he’s off form or low on confidence, you start doubting yourself and then even speed can look worse. People assume everyone is running at full pelt all the time. Timing is so important.

I remember when Nani obliterated Clichy for pace; nobody saw it coming, but then after Nani went all electric and became much more direct.
 
SER19 said:
You're surely winding me up now? Not only did i never say garnacho was a better dribbler than dibling but I've repeatedly said how limited stats are, (wan bissaka ranked 26th best in league in dribbles this season) and lastly my initial post was about beating one's man not just dribbling.

No offence but it feels like im engaging with a machine here who can't make a sentence that doesn't have the word stat in it. Ive genuinely said all i can say on this to you in the last few posts
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Problem with the stats argument is that you have to use your eyes and I've seen way too many crap games from Garnacho.

He's not very good at beating his man and that's why he often struggles to get a shot off.
 
With the prices being quoted, we should go for cherki, striker will take major.chunk of our budget
 
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