Trump/Russia/SDNY investigation

Raoul said:
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This is interesting. According to this video, Torshin claims he dined together with Don Jr at the event.

Don Jr's lawyer said something different in a statement, so one of them is lying.

In a statement, Alan Futerfas, an attorney representing Trump Jr., downplayed the significance of the encounter. He says Trump Jr. "was attending an NRA convention and having dinner when an acquaintance asked him to say hello to Torshin and made an introduction. Futerfas said, "They made small talk for a few minutes and went back to their separate meals."
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https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-jr-met-with-man-with-close-ties-to-kremlin/
 
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You have to ask why is Mueller flipping him? He already has Manafort, now it looks like he's flipped Flynn. This has to go right to the centre of the Trump administration - either to the man himself or at the very, very least his family.
 
Oscie said:
You have to ask why is Mueller flipping him? He already has Manafort, now it looks like he's flipped Flynn. This has to go right to the centre of the Trump administration - either to the man himself or at the very, very least his family.
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The more key players he flips the more ammo he has to hit Trump from different angles. For example, if Trump was in any way aware of overtures with Russians during the campaign, or even more insidiously, if he was actively coordinating or approving interactions , then Manafort and Flynn would be the two people who could verify this. That’s why it’s critical that they are pressured to flip so that they can provide independent accounts on what actually happened. If both Flynn and Manafort say the same things then that is a very powerful piece of evidence that can b used to compound other testimony and create a broad case against Trump himself.
 
Flynn offered his testimony in exchange for immunity so obviously he's done something seriously wrong and he's willing to talk about it.

Doesn't surprise me that he might've flipped but it's a proper bonus if he has.
 
Taking one for his kid I expect. They did say Mueller was going after Flynn Jr to try and put pressure on Sr.
 
Raoul said:
Yep. Easiest way to get to the flip candidate is threatening to indict their kids.
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I think it was a Dutch MDMA pioneer who’s son went down for a long time for his involvement in his crimes after they tried to use him in a similar way. He said something along the lines of “I can have more sons, I can’t have another life.”

I can imagine Trump using similar logic.
 
sglowrider said:
The first thing Mueller would have done was to subpoena Trump's tax returns.
That would be a treasure trove in itself.
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It would seem logical. In fact, I'd imagine Mueller has most of the answers to all of this right now and is just selectively using information to go after the lower hanging fruit (Pappadopolous, Gates, Flynn Jr.) mid level fruit (Manafort, Flynn Sr.) before going after Trump's own family members (Kushner, Don Jr.) before actually getting to Trump.

He likely knows that going after Kushner or Don Jr now would result in Trump trying to shut everything down.
 
If Mueller does already have enough to go on that could end up bringing down the president of the united states. An event which would have pretty monumental implications around the world, not just the US... I can't even begin to imagine how careful he has to be with the information he holds and who else knows what.
 
Raoul said:
It would seem logical. In fact, I'd imagine Mueller has most of the answers to all of this right now and is just selectively using information to go after the lower hanging fruit (Pappadopolous, Gates, Flynn Jr.) mid level fruit (Manafort, Flynn Sr.) before going after Trump's own family members (Kushner, Don Jr.) before actually getting to Trump.

He likely knows that going after Kushner or Don Jr now would result in Trump trying to shut everything down.
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Agreed, I think by the time he reaches the family circle and we're actually hearing about it, he will already have an enormous amount of evidence and sealed indictments at state level so even if Trump does decide to fire him it won't make a blind bit of difference because it'll be somewhat out of the special counsels hands and The State vs x... y... and z... with evidence all submitted at this point.
 
Simbo said:
If Mueller does already have enough to go on that could end up bringing down the president of the united states. An event which would have pretty monumental implications around the world, not just the US... I can't even begin to imagine how careful he has to be with the information he holds and who else knows what.
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Mueller likely has 3 or 4 lines of inquiry for his prosecution

- Conspiracy : Did Trump and/or his associates conspire to collude with a foreign government to create a quid pro quo to advance Trump's Presidential campaign

- Obstruction of Justice: Did Trump fire Comey to avoid him looking into Flynn

- Financial Crimes: Did the Trump organization participate in money laundering, bribery etc with any Russian or ethno-Russian entities in the years leading up to the Presidential campaign that would've made Trump beholden to foreign interests.

- Perjury : Did Trump or his assosciates lie when questioned about any of these things


It is very likely that Trump and/or those directly below him are guilty not of just one of the above (which would be sufficient for impeachment) but all of the above.
 
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Raoul said:
Mueller likely has 3 or 4 lines of inquiry for his prosecution

- Conspiracy : Did Trump and/or his associates conspire to collude with a foreign government to create a quid pro quo to advance Trump's Presidential campaign

- Obstruction of Justice: Did Trump

- Financial Crimes: Did the Trump organization participate in money laundering, bribery etc with any Russian or ethno-Russian entities in the years leading up to the Presidential campaign that would've made Trump beholden to foreign interests.

- Perjury : Did Trump or his assosciates lie when questioned about any of these things


It is very likely that Trump and/or those directly below him are guilty not of just one of the above (which would be sufficient for impeachment) but all of the above.
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I am pretty sure its all of the above. Let's see if the self-proclaimed world's greatest negotiator can worm his way out of this. Liars and con-artists like Trump must never be able to get away with the crap he has pulled or there is no hope for the future of the republic.
 
sglowrider said:
I am pretty sure its all of the above. Let's see if the self-proclaimed world's greatest negotiator can worm his way out of this. Liars and con-artists like Trump must never be able to get away with the crap he has pulled or there is no hope for the future of the republic.
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Unfortunately many have been getting away with it since the beginning of time. Some get caught but many slip through the net. I just hope Trump isn't one that gets away. Half, if not more of his arrogance is down to getting away with things all his life. He really does think he is untouchable. The question is, is Mueller Trump's Elliot Ness?
 
langster said:
Unfortunately many have been getting away with it since the beginning of time. Some get caught but many slip through the net. I just hope Trump isn't one that gets away. Half, if not more of his arrogance is down to getting away with things all his life. He really does think he is untouchable. The question is, is Mueller Trump's Elliot Ness?
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Going to watch that movie again today to give me hope.
 
shabadu84 said:
Wasn't it already known he'd been speaking to Mueller? Surely Trump & Co would know/suspect if he had been flipped, right?
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I'm guessing so, although one never knows. Woolsey is a former CIA director and would probably be smart enough to know he would be frisked before getting near Trump.
 
Raoul said:
I'm guessing so, although one never knows. Woolsey is a former CIA director and would probably be smart enough to know he would be frisked before getting near Trump.
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If I wanted to bug Trump, I'd buy him a mirror that says "Best President Ever"

Kentonio said:
Trump do something stupid? Surely not.. ;)
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Haha I think we'll still end up all being amazed at just how stupid they've all been when everything comes out
 
Raoul said:
I'm guessing so, although one never knows. Woolsey is a former CIA director and would probably be smart enough to know he would be frisked before getting near Trump.
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Good luck finding a “wire” these days. Could be behind a tooth, under a “bruised” fingernail (who’s going to inspect an old man’s gammy nail?), a shirt button, in his watch, in his wedding ring or in his glasses.
 
Pexbo said:
Good luck finding a “wire” these days. Could be behind a tooth, under a “bruised” fingernail (who’s going to inspect an old man’s gammy nail?), a shirt button, in his watch, in his wedding ring or in his glasses.
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You'd be surprised the electronic scrutiny people have to go through to get close to the President.
 
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