True Stories: Kurt Cobain

I try not to let a musicians personal life or personality affect my interest in their music.

It's common knowledge that the majority of famous musicians are dickheads. I think it'd be easier to make a list of the nice musicians.

If i were to believe every bad myth or view about a musician i would miss out on some fantastic music.

Anyway i'm a big fan of Nirvanas music & Cobain and the fact that Cobain comes across as a bit of a knob isn't a huge shock.
 
Nirvana we're easily the most important thing to happen to the music industry when Nevermind was released. It interesting to note that most of the people commenting on how shit Nirvana are or were arent old enough to remember the state the music industry was in in the mid to eighties to early 90's.

As for what he was like as a person,,, who gives a shit? It always amazes me that people wait to hear the musicians they like say something profound, they're songwriters, listen to their music and enjoy it (or not) what else do you want from them? Take Bono for example, he never shuts up and is quite clearly a dickhead...

The need people feel for their favorite rockstars, sports people, actors to be people they'd like to have a pint with me has always seemed a little sad...

As for the inconsistencies in what Kurt Cobain said in relation to what he felt was right or wrong, or good or bad, well I could easily justify that by pointing out that he was quite clearly severely emotionally damaged, seeking refuge in copious amounts of heroin and ultimately blowing his head off as a result... but then, I dont really give a shit what he was like as a person, Nirvana were an awesome band, and he was an awesome song writer, thats enough for me.
 
Eyepopper said:
Nirvana we're easily the most important thing to happen to the music industry when Nevermind was released. It interesting to note that most of the people commenting on how shit Nirvana are or were arent old enough to remember the state the music industry was in in the mid to eighties to early 90's.

As for what he was like as a person,,, who gives a shit? It always amazes me that people wait to hear the musicians they like say something profound, they're songwriters, listen to their music and enjoy it (or not) what else do you want from them? Take Bono for example, he never shuts up and is quite clearly a dickhead...

The need people feel for their favorite rockstars, sports people, actors to be people they'd like to have a pint with me has always seemed a little sad...

As for the inconsistencies in what Kurt Cobain said in relation to what he felt was right or wrong, or good or bad, well I could easily justify that by pointing out that he was quite clearly severely emotionally damaged, seeking refuge in copious amounts of heroin and ultimately blowing his head off as a result... but then, I dont really give a shit what he was like as a person, Nirvana were an awesome band, and he was an awesome song writer, thats enough for me.
Click to expand...

Very well said.
 
No, it really isn't. You were spot on when you said that Nirvana was good for the music industry, that is right. But unfortunately the industry is everything that is wrong with music.
I am 28 years old, so I can remember what it was like when musicians were actually good on their respective instruments. Nirvana changed all that with their careless use of distortion and effectively stating that it is ok to sound like shit as long as you look good.
 
thats complete bullshit.. Dave Grohl is one of the best drummers of his generation.... and distortion and effects can only go so far, if the under lyng chord strcuture and melody isnt up to scratch it wont do much...

 
oh and how nirvana looked when they broke through was totally contrary to the mainstream at the time... it was the pre nirvana hair metal bands like whitesnake, poison, and a million others that got away with shit music and looking "good"... bands like that died off after nirvana
 
Eyepopper said:
Nirvana we're easily the most important thing to happen to the music industry when Nevermind was released. It interesting to note that most of the people commenting on how shit Nirvana are or were arent old enough to remember the state the music industry was in in the mid to eighties to early 90's.

As for what he was like as a person,,, who gives a shit? It always amazes me that people wait to hear the musicians they like say something profound, they're songwriters, listen to their music and enjoy it (or not) what else do you want from them? Take Bono for example, he never shuts up and is quite clearly a dickhead...

The need people feel for their favorite rockstars, sports people, actors to be people they'd like to have a pint with me has always seemed a little sad...

As for the inconsistencies in what Kurt Cobain said in relation to what he felt was right or wrong, or good or bad, well I could easily justify that by pointing out that he was quite clearly severely emotionally damaged, seeking refuge in copious amounts of heroin and ultimately blowing his head off as a result... but then, I dont really give a shit what he was like as a person, Nirvana were an awesome band, and he was an awesome song writer, thats enough for me.
Click to expand...


Pops, I love you now more than ever.
 
Eyepopper said:
oh and how nirvana looked when they broke through was totally contrary to the mainstream at the time... it was the pre nirvana hair metal bands like whitesnake, poison, and a million others that got away with shit music and looking "good"... bands like that died off after nirvana
Click to expand...

The reason they got away with looking like junkies, was because people were tired of the mainstream at the time. Glam rock was burnt out and embarrasing, and people were so sick of the shit that was surfacing, like New Kids On The Block, that they bought whatever was opposite that just to make a statement and distance themselves from it. And all that was fine, because it's natural selection. Good things, and bad, are supposed to make way for new and different things... only in this case, Cobain died before Nirvana could fade out like they were supposed to. What we were left with was nothing to build on, even though there were better bands out there, and even in Seattle were better bands like Soundgarden and even Pearl Jam, but people were too busy mourning their Messiah, that nothing that was released caught on enough to be considered the next step. (I know those two bands didn't follow Nirvana, but it's for the Seattle reference).

I don't disagree that Nirvana's Nevermind was a breath of fresh air at the time, and that Cobain was a great songwriter. My point is that Cobains death stopped music dead in it's track. The Jonas Brothers and High School Musical is the unfortunate aftermath, to name just two.
 
interesting the reaction the show brought on here.

i think it was apparant how naive he was to the nature of media. and of course the internet (which has softened the power, greatly, of other media mediums) hadn't hit in music yet.

in fact, emo didn't exist yet, and emo wasn't even a term.

i guess what i'm trying to say is that when we judge, and criticize things retrospectively, we MUST remember that their social relevance will not apply to us as it did to their surroundings at the time.

Nirvana, culturally and musically, were a reaction to their surroundings and the musical climate of the time.

they are not a reaction to our's.

the only thing that should be revisited, in my opinion, is the music.

imagine if any of us were recorded talking for hours on end...

and then the world gets to listen back to you 17 YEARS LATER!

i think it's safe to say we'd all look back and cringe at comments.
 
Maroon Lucifer said:
The reason they got away with looking like junkies, was because people were tired of the mainstream at the time.

Got away with? Huh?

Glam rock was burnt out and embarrasing,

About 15 years before Nirvana

there were better bands out there, and even in Seattle were better bands like Soundgarden and even Pearl Jam
Click to expand...

Both excellent but not a patch on Nirvana, and I'm not even a massive fan.
 
Maroon Lucifer said:
I don't disagree that Nirvana's Nevermind was a breath of fresh air at the time, and that Cobain was a great songwriter. My point is that Cobains death stopped music dead in it's track. The Jonas Brothers and High School Musical is the unfortunate aftermath, to name just two.
Click to expand...

Are you mad? The truth is the total opposite.. The fact that Nirvana had commercial success opened the doors for loads of other band (some completely shit btw) to get record deals and promotion that they wouldn't have before... bands like sonic youth, dinosaur jnr and so on, even now although the mainstream music industry is a total and sickening business, record companies are prepared to give bands like The White Stripes, Kings of Leon, more time and resources than they would've gotten before bands like Nirvana broke through.

Soundgarden and Pearl Jam (albeit Pearl Jam as Motherlovebone) we're signed to major labels before Nirvana... If anything the fact that Nirvana were so big gave those bands MORE power to do what they wanted separate from music execs influence, take Pearl Jam deciding now to make any videos and take on Ticketmaster in the courts... any other band would've been dropped like a hot stone for that sort of stuff..
 
Eyepopper said:
get record deals and promotion that they wouldn't have before... bands like sonic youth, dinosaur jnr and so on
Click to expand...

actually, Sonic Youth were signed to a major label (Geffen) a year before Nirvana. in fact, it was them who got Nirvana signed to Geffen!

and Dinosaur Jr's major label debut came out 6 months before Nirvana's.

so really, Nirvana joined a group of bands who were moving in the same direction. they weren't pioneers, at all, when it came to going from an Indie to a Major.

their success, however, DID completely smash open the gates. so ultimately, i agree with your sentiments.
 
Eyepopper said:
Nirvana we're easily the most important thing to happen to the music industry when Nevermind was released. It interesting to note that most of the people commenting on how shit Nirvana are or were arent old enough to remember the state the music industry was in in the mid to eighties to early 90's.

As for what he was like as a person,,, who gives a shit? It always amazes me that people wait to hear the musicians they like say something profound, they're songwriters, listen to their music and enjoy it (or not) what else do you want from them? Take Bono for example, he never shuts up and is quite clearly a dickhead...

The need people feel for their favorite rockstars, sports people, actors to be people they'd like to have a pint with me has always seemed a little sad...

As for the inconsistencies in what Kurt Cobain said in relation to what he felt was right or wrong, or good or bad, well I could easily justify that by pointing out that he was quite clearly severely emotionally damaged, seeking refuge in copious amounts of heroin and ultimately blowing his head off as a result... but then, I dont really give a shit what he was like as a person, Nirvana were an awesome band, and he was an awesome song writer, thats enough for me.
Click to expand...

Why was he severely emotionally damaged?
 
who knows... family spilt up when he was young, abandonment issues with his father, isolation issues living in a small town... who knows..
 
redwhiteblack said:
actually, Sonic Youth were signed to a major label (Geffen) a year before Nirvana. in fact, it was them who got Nirvana signed to Geffen!

and Dinosaur Jr's major label debut came out 6 months before Nirvana's.

so really, Nirvana joined a group of bands who were moving in the same direction. they weren't pioneers, at all, when it came to going from an Indie to a Major.

their success, however, DID completely smash open the gates. so ultimately, i agree with your sentiments.
Click to expand...

Yeah I realise sonic youth and dinosaur jnr were signed before Nirvana but the success of Nirvana gave them greater bargaining power with the labels and a freer reign to do what they wanted rather than what they were told to
 
SmashedHombre said:
Why was he severely emotionally damaged?
Click to expand...

A shit childhood, his parents divorcing, getting knocked about a bit. His only real refuge was with his grandparents who lived on a trailer park.

As for his heroin addiction, more a result of crippling stomach pain that heroin was the only thing to take him away from it.
 
Eyepopper said:
who knows... family spilt up when he was young, abandonment issues with his father, isolation issues living in a small town... who knows..
Click to expand...

Seems a bit of a lame excuse leave serverely emotionally damaged. I never really like dhim to be honest, always felt a lot of it was an act and that he was an attention seeker
 
SmashedHombre said:
Seems a bit of a lame excuse leave serverely emotionally damaged. I never really like dhim to be honest, always felt a lot of it was an act and that he was an attention seeker
Click to expand...

Most attention seekers crave it because the lacked it in childhood.

If you're ever going to read a bio, Charles R. Cross' bio of Kurt is superb. Really gives an insight into the lads life.
 
Saints RL MUFC said:
Most attention seekers crave it because the lacked it in childhood.

If you're ever going to read a bio, Charles R. Cross' bio of Kurt is superb. Really gives an insight into the lads life.
Click to expand...
I second this. Cracking read.
 
Most people in bands are just regular guys,... it must be hard to handle the spotlight... I write songs and gig etc, if some day suddenly the entire world wanted to know my thoughts on everything I'm not sure how I'd react... famous musicians are no different to the rest of us...

This thread reminds me of a guy at a Neil Young concert once... Neil was onstage playing a blinding gig with Crazy Horse and one of the guys I was with was moaning about "why doesnt he ever talk to the crowd between songs???" I was just amazed to know 1) what he wanted a man thats written some of the best music over the past 30 years to say and 2) why he wouldnt just be content to hear some of the best music of the last 30 years live...
 
Heavier Than Heaven is a really good one, yeah.

Come As You Are by Michael Azzarad is another good one. and there are a few by Everett True worth reading.
 
Much as I respect all that Nirvana did, I just can't seem to see in them what everyone else does. That's not to say I think they're bad, because I don't, but when I listen to them I don't hear something special I don't get elsewhere. If nothing else, I don't think Cobain can actually sing that well.

And I appear to have the complete opposite opinion of Eyepopper here -- I do care what musicians and people are like outside of their work, because I look at people as a whole before I make a judgement. There are those who think I am in the wrong because it's his music that matters, but there are also those who agree with me. That he was so fake and phoney in all he did almost means his lyrics have less poignancy. He doesn't mean them; how do we know he didn't just write them for effect and as an act like he was himself?
 
Count Duckula said:
Much as I respect all that Nirvana did, I just can't seem to see in them what everyone else does. That's not to say I think they're bad, because I don't, but when I listen to them I don't hear something special I don't get elsewhere. If nothing else, I don't think Cobain can actually sing that well.

And I appear to have the complete opposite opinion of Eyepopper here -- I do care what musicians and people are like outside of their work, because I look at people as a whole before I make a judgement. There are those who think I am in the wrong because it's his music that matters, but there are also those who agree with me. That he was so fake and phoney in all he did almost means his lyrics have less poignancy. He doesn't mean them; how do we know he didn't just write them for effect and as an act like he was himself?
Click to expand...

You're right about us having opposite opinions.. thats the most clueless post I've seen in this thread....
 
I think it does matter what an artist says within his work and what he feels in everyday life.
I think it sometimes is a heavy burden for artist's to be sincere.. and Kurt was very young and troubled, so maybe we could cut him some slack.
Shame we never got to see him grow and develop as an artist and a man.
I recently saw Eddie vedder on his Into the wild solo tour, and its amazing how much hes changed from the early 92 pearl jam days.
And it made me think about Kurt.. and love him or hate him, we surley must agree his death was a loss to music.
 
Count Duckula said:
That he was so fake and phoney in all he did almost means his lyrics have less poignancy. He doesn't mean them; how do we know he didn't just write them for effect and as an act like he was himself?
Click to expand...

Surely his lyrics were his lyrics no matter what and mean the same no matter what he was like?

Or did they?

There is, or was, a poet. His name was Lallafa, and he wrote what are widely regarded throughout the Galaxy as being the finest poems in existence, the Songs of the Long Land.

They are/were unspeakably wonderful. That is to say, you couldn't speak very much of them at once without being so overcome with emotion, truth and a sense of wholeness and oneness of things that you wouldn't pretty soon need a brisk walk round the block, possibly pausing at a bar on the way back for a quick glass of perspective and soda. They were that good.

Lallafa had lived in the forests of the Long Lands of Effa. He lived there, and he wrote his poems there. He wrote them on pages made of dried habra leaves, without the benefit of education or correcting fluid. He wrote about the light in the forest and what he thought about that. He wrote about the darkness in the forest, and what he thought about that. He wrote about the girl who had left him and precisely what he thought about that.

Long after his death his poems were found and wondered over. News of them spread like morning sunlight. For centuries they illuminated and watered the lives of many people whose lives might otherwise have been darker and drier.

Then, shortly after the invention of time travel, some major correcting fluid manufacturers wondered whether his poems might have been better still if he had had access to some high-quality correcting fluid, and whether he might be persuaded to say a few words on that effect.

They travelled the time waves, they found him, they explained the situation – with some difficulty – to him, and did indeed persuade him. In fact they persuaded him to such an effect that he became extremely rich at their hands, and the girl about whom he was otherwise destined to write which such precision never got around to leaving him, and in fact they moved out of the forest to a rather nice pad in town and he frequently commuted to the future to do chat shows, on which he sparkled wittily.

He never got around to writing the poems, of course, which was a problem, but an easily solved one. The manufacturers of correcting fluid simply packed him off for a week somewhere with a copy of a later edition of his book and a stack of dried habra leaves to copy them out on to, making the odd deliberate mistake and correction on the way.

Many people now say that the poems are suddenly worthless. Others argue that they are exactly the same as they always were, so what's changed? The first people say that that isn't the point. They aren't quite sure what the point is, but they are quite sure that that isn't it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.