Transfers: Where do you stand?

We need to look at our scouting a lot and improve it. How come the likes of Benfica can keep finding gems like nunez. Also look at what Klopp did when he started and Liverpool where were we are now. TH built a cheap team at Ajax and we have more money than them so we should be able to build a starting team without having to chase £80 mill + players, especially as we have multiple positions to address. 3-4 £30-50 mill players will be a better fit than 2 £80 mill+ imo. We were about a dozen points off top 4. Im sure with proper coaching some decent signings we can make those points up.
 
charlenefan said:
Pay whatever it takes to get who the club wants even if it means paying over the odds

or

Refuse to dragged into bidding wars or paying over the odds and happy to walk away and move onto more affordable targets

I mean it's not our money either way but what stance would you prefer the club take?
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It depends on how important we think a player is. We spent big on some players under SAF while with other players we looked for more affordable options. It's the same now with Pool, Madrid traditionally and almost any club that has been super successful over a longer period of time. If you always back down from competing for top talents you end up with a mediocre squad.
 
Used to stand in front of the TV refreshing teletext over the summer to see if any updated news came through.

Now, I just sit in work and occasionally hit F5 to see if anything new has happened.
 
Paying shed loads of money for players is all well and good, and one of the biggest problems we face in the market is that as soon as it becomes known we are interested in a player his fee goes through the roof. Too many of the players we bought over the last 8 years simply didnt want to play for us but we kept upping their wages and perks etc and so they signed; thats something we need to stop doing, if a player says he isnt interested we should call his bluff, if bluff it be, and look at others who actually want to sign. No more poseurs earning mega bucks and taking us all for a ride.
 
3-4 £40m - £50m players easily.

A single £80m player doesn't make a team - look at Lukaku, Pogba, Maguire and Sancho.

Look at what Liverpool did - they signed the likes of Fabinho, Mane, Salah etc for £40m a pop before signing the one off best in class players. We keep signing an £80m player and a £30m defender every summer and wonder why were so shit.

As they say, it's a team sport.
 
I don't really care about the money as you say it's not ours. I do think huge fees and wages negatively impact players attitudes.

We don't need players who think they've made it off the back of such a big move. If the player has a fire for football like Rooney then pay whatever but we do have to be careful with some.
 
The key part for us (and something we have been largely ignoring ever since SAF retired) is - let's call it - player profiling.

SAF wouldn't have gone anywhere near a number of players we have signed (for big money) in recent years. Not based on talent or quality as such - but based on personality/suitability.

To answer the OP's question - if, hypothetically, we have a realistic chance of landing a player, in what is deemed a key position, who is perfect for us (in terms of the total package - which has to include personality, etc.), then yes - it could be worth it to sacrifice something in terms of objectively overpaying for him: insisting on not moving an inch beyond a set figure could be just as foolish as pissing away money Woodward style.
 
Hire somebody well versed in game theory and complex corporate negotiations and give them a free hand to get who we want. And then sack them if they don't do a good job.
(Spoilers - nobody on this thread is getting the job)
 
I think the main philosophy always should be to refuse to be dragged into bidding wars or paying over the odds. If you pay over the odds time and time again you get a reputation as an easily exploitable club. Most of the time there should be at least a couple of options available, and if a selling club is trying to exploit you, you move on to the next option.

Saying that, you should be able to make exceptions for truly special players. Those exceptions to the main philosophy should be few and far between though. If they become too frequent, not overpaying stops being the main philosophy.
 
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marktan said:
3-4 £40m - £50m players easily.

A single £80m player doesn't make a team - look at Lukaku, Pogba, Maguire and Sancho.

Look at what Liverpool did - they signed the likes of Fabinho, Mane, Salah etc for £40m a pop before signing the one off best in class players. We keep signing an £80m player and a £30m defender every summer and wonder why were so shit.

As they say, it's a team sport.
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Salah joined Liverpool for a fee that will rise to about £43m (if it hasn't already) in 2017. Mane joined in 2016 for £34m, Fabinho £39m in 2018. Players, like all things, were somewhat cheaper five years ago so I don't see those aa great examples. Also, I believe, at least two of those involved Liverpool breaking their transfer record - Salah certainly did
 
Von Mistelroum said:
I think it's ultimately irrelevant. We have a very small budget for a club of our size and far more so considering the amount of players we need. We can't compete (for example) with Liverpool for someone like Nunez because they have more money to spend and crucially not as many holes in their squad to spread it between.

We have 4-6 first team players we should be looking to add at least, and that's just for starters really. Our budget is reportedly £120m so we can't go buying a Nunez for £70-80m because we (much more) urgently need Central midfielders and full backs... And a CB if at all possible. We also need at least one winger and possibly a GK if DDG can't adapt. Realistically we might be able to buy 2-3 of these third window IF we can make some very shrewd deals. This rules out trying to compete with other big clubs for signings.
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De Jong and Antony and our budget is gone. We need to sell players if we are to bring others here this window.
 
Pay over the odds for De Jong, then young hungry players for less everywhere else. There seems to be LBs available for decent prices (Raum, Malacia) but an LCB will probably cost decent money.

I think we have the attacking talent apart from a RW, but we have young talent there so maybe could save money by signing an older player or someone who's not in crazy demand like Juve got with Kulusevski. Sarabia went on loan last year from PSG and is in the Spain team. Maybe we could get him for cheap as he's 30. Malcolm is still in Russia and he's a good player.

So yeah, spend big on De Jong and an LCB, small on 2 other spots and hope the current attackers and some of the players like Fred, Dalot and Varane can play the football they're capable of under Ten Hag.

Our 11 looks a lot better with Bruno and Sancho wide and VDB-Fred-DeJong as the midfield. Add Cristiano up top for one more year and that's solid, though we'd need another defensive midfielder and one of Rashford or Martial to come to life under Ten Hag too. Defense I'm less hopeful for, so ideally we can make some cheaper buys there, and I do think there are fullbacks available.
 
Players directly fitting ETH's desired system should help and majority of them could be taxing on the budget heavily.

If we find someone for reasonable price that will be huge success, it's gonna require some work, analysis and communication, but it needs to start happening at some point. Our main goal source is a legend, but he's an effect of scouting from SAF era, 20 years ago..................

We'll probably spend heavy, not necessarily because we want to, but simply from temporary inability to raid upcoming ballers for peanuts.
 
Von Mistelroum said:
I think it's ultimately irrelevant. We have a very small budget for a club of our size and far more so considering the amount of players we need. We can't compete (for example) with Liverpool for someone like Nunez because they have more money to spend and crucially not as many holes in their squad to spread it between.

We have 4-6 first team players we should be looking to add at least, and that's just for starters really. Our budget is reportedly £120m so we can't go buying a Nunez for £70-80m because we (much more) urgently need Central midfielders and full backs... And a CB if at all possible. We also need at least one winger and possibly a GK if DDG can't adapt. Realistically we might be able to buy 2-3 of these third window IF we can make some very shrewd deals. This rules out trying to compete with other big clubs for signings.
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How many midfielders do we need, personally would say 2 excluding De Jong which would be Matic type DM and rotation type AM for Bruno like Eriksen.
 
NoPace said:
Pay over the odds for De Jong, then young hungry players for less everywhere else. There seems to be LBs available for decent prices (Raum, Malacia) but an LCB will probably cost decent money.

I think we have the attacking talent apart from a RW, but we have young talent there so maybe could save money by signing an older player or someone who's not in crazy demand like Juve got with Kulusevski. Sarabia went on loan last year from PSG and is in the Spain team. Maybe we could get him for cheap as he's 30. Malcolm is still in Russia and he's a good player.

So yeah, spend big on De Jong and an LCB, small on 2 other spots and hope the current attackers and some of the players like Fred, Dalot and Varane can play the football they're capable of under Ten Hag.

Our 11 looks a lot better with Bruno and Sancho wide and VDB-Fred-DeJong as the midfield. Add Cristiano up top for one more year and that's solid, though we'd need another defensive midfielder and one of Rashford or Martial to come to life under Ten Hag too. Defense I'm less hopeful for, so ideally we can make some cheaper buys there, and I do think there are fullbacks available.
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Who would you say fits the bill best for LCB
 
sullydnl said:
It's context dependent.

If you're a side like City or Liverpool, you have the luxury of being able to overspend to secure your prime targets as there are a limited number of positions you're actually looking to improve at any given time. Value matters less.

If you're a side like us now or Liverpool at the start of their rebuild, you need to be more efficient with your spending in order to expedite the rebuild process. Because the amount you overspend could be the difference between upgrading another key position in your starting eleven or not. And when you're starting from a low base you get quicker improvement overall by hitting those multiple positions.

That doesn't mean you don't spend big money on certain key players. Liverpool broke the transfer record for both a goalkeeper and a defender for example, which we would likely have described as overspend. But they should be exceptions rather than the rule and you have to absolutely nail those signings.

In our case FDJ is the only player we've been linked with I'd be comfortable spending massive money on. Because aside from being an obviously talented player in an area we're weak, he comes with the added security of his past experience with ETH. For someone like Nunez on the other hand, I'd sooner let Liverpool overpay for him while we try to get the absolute most we can from our resources this summer. He's not the sort of big money risk we should be taking right now.
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I couldn’t have put it better myself. Exactly how I see it
 
I think we need to spend sensible, but there is a risk we buy 4-5 average players that do not improve us.

I rather have 2-3 top players. With that said the big money signings we gone for have mostly failed for us.
 
croadyman said:
Who would you say fits the bill best for LCB
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Torres is the obvious one. He's genuinely calm with the ball which we need to play Ten Hag's ball. I wouldn't be completely shocked if we tried to play Shaw and Timber either side of Varane and Maguire which is basically how Ajax play this year except their middle CB is tiny and quick rather than old and slow. But my guess is Ten Hag will try to play 4 at the back to start if only because it's easier and he did it first with Ajax before switching to the hybrid way they played this year.

A name nobody has mentioned that's interesting is Hermoso from Atletico Madrid. He's apparently had a terrible year and been replaced by Reinildo so they're looking to sell and he's very good on the ball. If we can't get Torres, Gvardiol (who I haven't seen much of but people talk like he's gonna be Maldini) or Bastoni and we spend 90% of the budget on De Jong, a DM, a fullback (or 2) and a winger or 9 then I could see Ten Hag fixing his career as he's the opposite of Simeone as a coach. He was very good last season when I saw him, just not this past one.

Maguire looked more comfortable on the right against Italy today, so I think an LCB might be even more important than we thought since Maguire and Varane competing at RCB might bring out the best in one of them, and even if not, the latter always has injury issues and we could bench Maguire in games where his pace is an issue and we don't need an aerial presence at much.

There are others like Botman (but Ten Hag didn't seem to love him at Ajax), Badiashile (I was always watching Tchouameni so didn't focus on him) and probably some others.

There's so much unknown because I think the entire team setup will be dictated by if we get Frenkie De Jong or not, and also have zero idea if Ten Hag is trying to make his Ajax 2018 team, his Ajax 2022 team or something else entirely. We haven't hire Conte, for whom you know it's 3 at the back and you could probably pencil in Luke Shaw at LCB, Varane and Maguire to his right, Dalot or even Elanga at RWB, a new left-back who can attack and a new CM next to either McTominay or Fred with Bruno behind Cristiano and Rashford and Sancho sold in January to I dunno Spurs in this alternate universe.
 
It is a weird situation. United is a buisness, it’s owners want it to make money. So when buying players we can’t be reckless with the funds and need to get the best value for money. So we haggle for the best possible price.

Now given how much reinforcement the team needs the sensible thing would be to try and make your money go as far as possible use free agents and get cheaper alternatives that maybe aren’t the ones you really wanted but can improve your team and stabilise it whilst you continue to rebuild slowly.

Make no mistakes our priority is to currently establish ourselves as a mainstay in the top 4. That allows us to bring in more marquee signings.

However, when you’ve got a chance at signing someone the profile of DeJong how do you pass that up. Seems like one of those things you have to blow the budget on.

Our biggest problem for years has been going after the wrong profile of player for us. This needs to change and there are good players out there for 30 mil and so on we just never seem to think of them as such and are unwilling to take the risk on unproven players.
 
I don't think they should go all in spending over the top with a coach, who still has to prove himself, especially with other big clubs involved. Let's take FDJ. I get it, that you want to get players for the coach, but why are Barca so eager to get rid of him and get Lewandowski. For years United have bought older players, now that there is a Ballon d'Or level player available, you hear nothing, especially if you take into account, this guy is never inured, is a health nut and super professional. Then i read FDJ is good offensively and weak at pressing. Man , do i wish for a coach to be successful with technically good attacking football? Yes, Yes, Yes, but clearly the trend is not going in that direction, Liverpool play with 4 defenders and three defensive midfielders, it's defence masked as attack. Is then 38yo Ronaldo really going to be the main attacker next season? I have no hopes, that this club gets it right, it's all bet on ETH being a top coach.
 
If we are tight for cash this Noah Beck guy is pulling off better cross field passes than McTominay or Fred could ever dream.
 
Maik2022 said:
I don't think they should go all in spending over the top with a coach, who still has to prove himself, especially with other big clubs involved. Let's take FDJ. I get it, that you want to get players for the coach, but why are Barca so eager to get rid of him and get Lewandowski. For years United have bought older players, now that there is a Ballon d'Or level player available, you hear nothing, especially if you take into account, this guy is never inured, is a health nut and super professional. Then i read FDJ is good offensively and weak at pressing. Man , do i wish for a coach to be successful with technically good attacking football? Yes, Yes, Yes, but clearly the trend is not going in that direction, Liverpool play with 4 defenders and three defensive midfielders, it's defence masked as attack. Is then 38yo Ronaldo really going to be the main attacker next season? I have no hopes, that this club gets it right, it's all bet on ETH being a top coach.
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As to why Barca will sell, it's quite simple. Barca have two younger players on lower wages who can play in de Jong's position. Where they need reinforcement in midfield is a back up for Busquets and they can't register Kessie amongst other players until they make some sales. Given all of the above and his pricetag Frenkie is the ideal choice for them to sell.

As for why we aren't in for Lewandowski, you're having a laugh if you think there's any chance he'd consider going to a club that doesn't have Champions League football next year. As you say, he's a potential Ballon d'Or winner and has arguably been overlooked a couple of times. At 33, he may not have long left at the very top so I can't see him even considering it.
 
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reddyornot said:
Lets look in the lower leagues and find a Bruce or Pallister.
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Bruce was Norwich and Pallister Middlesboro and if I remember right both teams were in the first division the equivalent of the Premier league, at the time.
 
Some of you should be ashamed you really should.

War in Ukraine, thousands made refugees, others in the UK having to make the choice to heat or to eat… the world is in crisis and all some of you want is for the club to throw around money here, there and everywhere.

Makes me sick.
 
charlenefan said:
Pay whatever it takes to get who the club wants even if it means paying over the odds

or

Refuse to dragged into bidding wars or paying over the odds and happy to walk away and move onto more affordable targets

I mean it's not our money either way but what stance would you prefer the club take?
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We have already tried the first scenario since Sir Alex left and look at we are now. The decision making in the club regarding transfer targets has been abysmal and honestly until proven the contrary I don't see why it shouldn't be the same from now on.
We should identify the desired players as soon as possible and pay what they are worth now not what we hope they will be worth if they become super stars.
We have been one of the biggest spenders in world football for the past decade or so and we have to show 0 titles, 1 EL, 1 League Cup and 1 FA Cup. We should be more careful with money if we don't want to end up like Barcelona.
 
A bidding war will only work if the player has no 1st choice option.

For United if we look at the Numez deal to Liverpool sure we could have outbid them but as much as it hurts to say for a player they have so much more upside than us.

I would take it on a deal by deal basis if we are sure the player is the one that makes a difference and wants to come I'd be quick to make a deal work regardless, if the player is one of many targets and there isn't the desire to make the deal I'd be looking at other options
 
Scout better. Juve paid Leverkusen 10m for Vidal. Liverpool Paid Southampton 34m for Mane. There are a lot of transfers like this we could've and should've made.
Coach better. Players like James should come to us and improve.
Pay what's required for a player that is needed to complete the squad. Someone like FDJ now, we need him, we should get him.
Pay what's required to get a potential generational talent. Camavinga. If we can save money by scouting and coaching better, we could afford a few signings like these.

In that order.
 
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charlenefan said:
Pay whatever it takes to get who the club wants even if it means paying over the odds

or

Refuse to dragged into bidding wars or paying over the odds and happy to walk away and move onto more affordable targets

I mean it's not our money either way but what stance would you prefer the club take?
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That's a false choice. There's going to be a finite amount of transfer funds. If you pay over the odds, that simply means less money for other targets. It all comes down what you think a certain player is worth, for us. Measured against other needs. There's no general answer to the question of whether or not to pay over the odds.
 
I don't think we will be ready personally, we have a 2/3 month window where we need to buy players that EtH wants. None of them have been acquired, with Nunez going to Liverpool. Yes FDJ should be coming to us but is taking longer than it should. We haven't sold anyone that we can sell to fund more buys, yes players have left that were out of contract but that was a given. I just hope this new regime is really working hard in the background otherwise we're in for more pain next season.
 
Gavinb33 said:
A bidding war will only work if the player has no 1st choice option.

For United if we look at the Numez deal to Liverpool sure we could have outbid them but as much as it hurts to say for a player they have so much more upside than us.

I would take it on a deal by deal basis if we are sure the player is the one that makes a difference and wants to come I'd be quick to make a deal work regardless, if the player is one of many targets and there isn't the desire to make the deal I'd be looking at other options
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Spot on. Go to Liverpool to play under one of the great managers of this era, replace Sadio Mane and compete to win the PL and the ECL? Or go to United to sit behind Cristiano Ronaldo on the depth chart, play in the Europa League and maybe compete for a top 4 spot, if the new manager can pull the club out of its current nosedive? That must have been a real tough choice.
 
The club doesn’t have a bottomless pit of money so we can’t simply “pay what it takes” if we over pay for certian targets it would mean a compromise in the players we sign in other areas.
But equally we don’t want to end up just signing players who arn’t the one we want. So it’s a balancing act. One we have rarely got right in the last decade.
 
wolvored said:
We need to look at our scouting a lot and improve it. How come the likes of Benfica can keep finding gems like nunez. Also look at what Klopp did when he started and Liverpool where were we are now. TH built a cheap team at Ajax and we have more money than them so we should be able to build a starting team without having to chase £80 mill + players, especially as we have multiple positions to address. 3-4 £30-50 mill players will be a better fit than 2 £80 mill+ imo. We were about a dozen points off top 4. Im sure with proper coaching some decent signings we can make those points up.
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Benfica paid 25 mill for Nunez, hardly an undercover gem.
 
Irrespective of whether there is a 'Utd tax' my issue has always been that we buy the incorrect player for the team, formation or tactics. If the players we've paid over the odds for had been a success, no one would mention the transfer fee!

That said, the jokers that were in charge of our negotiating were beyond pathetic so a bit wishful thinking, but hopefully that's not the case now!
 
charlenefan said:
Pay whatever it takes to get who the club wants even if it means paying over the odds

or

Refuse to dragged into bidding wars or paying over the odds and happy to walk away and move onto more affordable targets

I mean it's not our money either way but what stance would you prefer the club take?
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Refuse to be dragged into bidding wars. Paying over the odds never seems to work, does it?
 
AaronRedDevil said:
You’d have to be an idiot to pay 80m for Nunez. There will always be cheaper and better options. They just have to know where to look. Unfortunately our scouts suck. It’s stupid to pay 80m for “potential”. It rarely works out.
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That kid is gonna burn us on multiple occasions in the coming years, mark my words. Annoyed we didn't land him.
 
Is it me? Or are these journalist drip fed information from clubs that make things sound really good, such as making a bid, preparing a bid negotiating? Let’s look at the business done by rivals all of which knew they were going this season. Nunez and haaland knew they were going even pogba has not said where he is going or lingard. Now I’m not saying we’re amazing at transfers, but I think there has got to be something said about the ripple effect. We want fdj Barcelona need the money, the last thing Barca need at the minute is clubs knowing they have money? I think the de jong thing is done with, signed ages ago. Same as Ajax they’ve lost their manager and need to find replacement players for gravenbach their right back and now we’re going after their centre back and right winger. Would it be logical for Ajax even if deals were done to ask for United to delay for a few weeks whilst they get their deals done? I’m frustrated like the next person, but I don’t believe this bs about negotiating preparing a bid etc, I think what’s done is already negotiated and done. Three players will be timber de jong and Anthony. Possibly one more if players are moved on
 
Work with what we have, trim the deadweight, improve the quality ones, bring through the kids and save our transfer money for a couple of years. Then drop it all on the market in one year and we're good
 
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