Top 5 Premier League players ever

giorno said:
Ultimately yeah, but damn it's not an easy call
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I think it’s a hard pick when you include Figos time at Barcelona. You could argue Figo was the better player in La Liga overall, he was incredible from 96-99 before he even joined Madrid.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
That's debatable.

I would say that Ronaldo was a more devastating attacking threat than anything we've seen in the PL when he was at his absolute peak for United.

In order to have Salah above him, we'll have to define "peak" in a way that favours the latter (which is possible, granted). But in terms of absolute peak, no.
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Yeah it's debatable but I would say Salah edges it.

Also I disagree on "than anything we've seen in PL" part, for me Henry's peak was something else, not just goals, assists and numbers. In terms of total package his peak was just brilliant and would put him at #1.
 
KeanoMagicHat said:
Did you read the first post? Highest peaks and he was second in Ballon d'Or and Premier League player of the year.
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Highest non obvious player peaks is a fun one.

  • Michu
  • Darren Bent
  • Januzaj
  • Santa Cruz
  • That Sunderland striker who was unbelievable and then randomly went Saudi years ago
 
I have tried to group the players into their respective positions, based on 'prime' and 'peak ability', as per the OP (i.e Giggs and Scholes would have been rated higher in a career version). This draft is only my first attempt, so I don't want to debate why I 'have Bertrand over Baines', there may be noticeable omissions:

Goalkeepers
Peter Schmeichel
Alisson Becker
Petr Cech
Edwin van der Sar
Ederson
David de Gea
Jens Lehmann
Thibaut Courtois
Pepe Reina
David Seaman

Honourable mentions: Kasper Schmeichel, Brad Friedel, Nigel Martyn, Hugo Lloris, Carlo Cudicini


Centrebacks
Virgil van Dijk
Nemanja Vidic
Jaap Stam
Rio Ferdinand
Ricardo Carvalho
John Terry
Marcel Desailly
Tony Adams
Sol Campbell
Ruben Dias

Honourable mentions: Paul McGrath, Vincent Kompany, John Stones, Sami Hyypia, Toby Alderweireld, Steve Bruce, Kolo Toure, William Gallas, Jan Vertonghen


Right backs
Kyle Walker
Trent Alexander-Arnold
Reece James
Kieran Trippier
Branislav Ivanovic
Cesar Azpilicueta
Pablo Zabaleta
Lauren
Gary Neville
Steve Finnan

Honourable mentions: Bacary Sagna, Dan Petrescu, Lee Dixon, Gary Kelly, Paulo Ferreira, Emmanuel Eboue, Seamus Coleman, Rob Jones, Stephen Carr


Left backs
Ashley Cole
Andy Robertson
Denis Irwin
Joao Cancelo
Patrice Evra
Luke Shaw
Ryan Bertrand
Ben Chilwell
Leighton Baines
Gaël Clichy

Honourable mentions: Nigel Winterburn, John Arne Riise, Ian Harte, Wayne Bridge, Aleksandar Kolarov, Celestine Babayaro, Marcos Alonso, Graeme Le Saux


Defensive or box-to-box midfielders
Roy Keane
Patrick Vieira
N’Golo Kante
Rodri
Claude Makelele
Michael Carrick
Michael Essien
Xabi Alonso
Fabinho
Fernandinho

Honourable mention: Gilberto Silva, Javier Mascherano, Nemanja Matic, Emmanuel Petit, Jordan Henderson, Georginio Wijnaldum, Paul Ince, Gary Speed, Dietmar Hamann, Darren Fletcher


Central or attacking midfielders
Kevin De Bruyne
Steven Gerrard
Frank Lampard
Yaya Toure
Paul Scholes
David Silva
Bernardo Silva
Cesc Fabregas
Ilkay Gundogan
Luka Modric

Honourable mention: Michael Ballack, Phil Foden, Mousa Dembele, Gary McAllister, Christian Eriksen, Mesut Özil, Bruno Fernandes, Tomas Rosicky, Santi Cazorla, Juninho, Steed Malbranque


Left wingers, including left wingforwards
Eden Hazard
Sadio Mane
Son Heung-Min
Robert Pires
Ryan Giggs
Alexis Sánchez
Marc Overmars
Arjen Robben
Willian
David Ginola

Honourable mention: Jack Grealish, Philippe Coutinho, Damien Duff, Florent Malouda, Marcus Rashford, Samir Nasri, Harry Kewell


Right wingers, including right wingforwards
Cristiano Ronaldo
Mohamed Salah
Gareth Bale
David Beckham
Riyad Mahrez
Raheem Sterling
Nani
Juan Mata
Freddie Ljungberg
Steve McManaman

Honourable mention: Joe Cole, Andrei Kanchelskis, Nolberto Solano, Yossi Benayoun, Darren Anderton, Jesús Navas, Dirk Kuyt, Chris Waddle, Nick Barmby


Secondary or supporting strikers, including complete forwards
Thierry Henry
Luis Suarez
Wayne Rooney
Eric Cantona
Harry Kane
Dennis Bergkamp
Robin van Persie
Carlos Tevez
Roberto Firmino
Dwight Yorke

Honourable mention: Gianfranco Zola, Dimitar Berbatov, Matt Le Tissier, Teddy Sheringham, Eidur Gudjohnsen, Peter Beardsley, Paolo Di Canio


Strikers and poachers
Alan Shearer
Erling Haaland
Sergio Aguero
Ruud van Nistelrooy
Didier Drogba
Fernando Torres
Andy Cole
Robbie Fowler
Ian Wright
Michael Owen

Honourable mention: Jamie Vardy, Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink, Les Ferdinand, Nicolas Anelka



Top 5 Overall

  • Cristiano Ronaldo '06-09 (66 goals, 10 assists). Was in the 'best player in the world' discussion, the best peak we've witnessed in the Premier League era. Ballon d'Or. FIFA World Player of the Year. 2 x Player of the Season. Golden Boot. 3 x Premier League titles. European Golden Shoe
  • Thierry Henry '02-05 (79 goals, 40 assists). The Premier League's most complete attacker, and the best player to watch as a neutral. Ballon d'Or runner-up, but deserving winner. Premier League title. 2 x FWA Footballer of the Year. 2 x Golden Boot. Most assists. 2 x PFA Players' Player of the Year. 2 x European Golden Shoe
  • Luis Suarez '11-14 (65 goals, 20 assists). The best striker prime, Suarez's goals nearly won Liverpool the league title. European Golden Shoe. FWA Footballer of the Year. Player of the Season. Golden Boot. PFA Players' Player of the Year.
  • Mohamed Salah '17-20 (73 goals, 28 assists). The player with the most impressive sustained high level, instrumental in Liverpool's success. Premier League title. FWA Footballer of the Year. 2 x Golden Boot. Onze d'Argent. PFA Players' Player of the Year. Player of the Season.
  • Kevin De Bruyne '19-22 (34 goals, 40 assists). The best midfielder in the world, combines all the qualities of the great midfielders in the league's history: elite passer, game-winner, match-engine, playmaker and leader. 2 x Player of the Season. 2 x PFA Players' Player of the Year. 3 x Premier League. Playmaker of the Season. 3 X PFA Team of the Year. Ballon d'Or 3rd place.
 
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tomaldinho1 said:
Highest non obvious player peaks is a fun one.

  • Michu
  • Darren Bent
  • Januzaj
  • Santa Cruz
  • That Sunderland striker who was unbelievable and then randomly went Saudi years ago
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Asamoah Gyan?

Also Tony Yeboah scoring worldies, Amir Zaki for a while. Papiss Cissé for half a season when he scored that stunner. Anderson and Cleverley for the first 7 or 8 games of 2011/12 before the 6-1 City game. Rashford last season from post-World Cup until about March.
 
The Corinthian said:
There’s no way van Dijk should feature at all in this thread.
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I’ll be honest I can’t stand the guy and he loses points on longevity but if we’re talking about peaks I don’t think another defender had as high of a peak as him in the PL. The competition is pretty much Rio in 07/08 and Vidic in 2010/11 for me.

VVD was so good in 18/19 that he looked like a glitch, it’s one of the best seasons I’ve ever seen from a defender.
 
El Jefe said:
I’ll be honest I can’t stand the guy and he loses points on longevity but if we’re talking about peaks I don’t think another defender had as high of a peak as him in the PL. The competition is pretty much Rio in 07/08 and Vidic in 2010/11 for me.

VVD was so good in 18/19 that he looked like a glitch, it’s one of the best seasons I’ve ever seen from a defender.
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Shh, you're not allowed to give Van Dijk or TAA any credit whatsoever on RedCafe.
 
roonster09 said:
In terms of total package his peak was just brilliant and would put him at #1.
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Well, it's not like it's a huge gap between 'em - it's pretty close all things said and done.

But for me, Ronaldo was more impressive. He was unplayable, just a sheer attacking force, culminating with the CL win in 2008.

With Ronaldo, it has never been about the "completeness" of his game, forget about that. I've said this before, but he was - historically - much less impressive when he was more "complete" (as a winger, as a dribbler, as a creator or as a more aesthetically pleasing player).

He's nothing compared to a number of players in that regard.

It was when he turned into an immense goal threat (from all sorts of angles) that he entered the GOAT discussion.

Anyway, I don't feel like debating Henry vs Ronaldo, to be honest. I don't have any genuine love for either of them, and ultimately I don't like talking at length about players I don't really fancy. Let's just say that both should be be in a top 5 of "peak" PL players (I would say that's obvious), and that there isn't much between 'em in terms of absolute peak.
 
BIG DUNK said:
I have tried to group the players into their respective positions, based on 'prime' and 'peak ability', as per the OP (i.e Giggs and Scholes would have been rated higher in a career version). This draft is only my first attempt, so I don't want to debate why I 'have Bertrand over Baines', there may be noticeable omissions:

Goalkeepers
Peter Schmeichel
Alisson Becker
Petr Cech
Edwin van der Sar
Ederson
David de Gea
Jens Lehmann
Thibaut Courtois
Pepe Reina
David Seaman

Centrebacks
Virgil van Dijk
Nemanja Vidic
Jaap Stam
Rio Ferdinand
Ricardo Carvalho
John Terry
Marcel Desailly
Tony Adams
Sol Campbell
Ruben Dias

Honourable mention: Paul McGrath, Vincent Kompany, John Stones, Sami Hyypia


Right backs
Kyle Walker
Trent Alexander-Arnold
Reece James
Kieran Trippier
Branislav Ivanovic
Cesar Azpilicueta
Pablo Zabaleta
Lauren
Gary Neville
Steve Finnan

Left backs
Ashley Cole
Andy Robertson
Denis Irwin
Joao Cancelo
Patrice Evra
Luke Shaw
Ryan Bertrand
Ben Chilwell
Leighton Baines
Gaël Clichy

Defensive or box-to-box midfielders
Roy Keane
Patrick Vieira
N’Golo Kante
Rodri
Claude Makelele
Michael Carrick
Michael Essien
Xabi Alonso
Fabinho
Fernandinho

Honourable mention: Gilberto Silva


Central or attacking midfielders
Kevin De Bruyne
Steven Gerrard
Frank Lampard
Yaya Toure
Paul Scholes
David Silva
Bernardo Silva
Cesc Fabregas
Ilkay Gundogan
Luka Modric

Honourable mention: Michael Ballack, Phil Foden


Left wingers, including left wingforwards
Eden Hazard
Sadio Mane
Son Heung-Min
Robert Pires
Ryan Giggs
Alexis Sánchez
Marc Overmars
Arjen Robben
Willian
David Ginola

Honourable mention: Jack Grealish, Philippe Coutinho, Damien Duff, Florent Malouda, Marcus Rashford


Right wingers, including right wingforwards
Cristiano Ronaldo
Mohamed Salah
Gareth Bale
David Beckham
Riyad Mahrez
Raheem Sterling
Nani
Juan Mata
Freddie Ljungberg
Steve McManaman

Honourable mention: Joe Cole, Andrei Kanchelskis


Secondary or supporting strikers, including complete forwards
Thierry Henry
Wayne Rooney
Eric Cantona
Harry Kane
Dennis Bergkamp
Robin van Persie
Carlos Tevez
Roberto Firmino
Dwight Yorke
Gianfranco Zola

Honourable mention: Dimitar Berbatov, Matt Le Tissier, Teddy Sheringham, Eidur Gudjohnsen


Strikers and poachers
Luis Suarez
Alan Shearer
Erling Haaland
Sergio Aguero
Ruud van Nistelrooy
Didier Drogba
Fernando Torres
Andy Cole
Robbie Fowler
Ian Wright

Honourable mention: Michael Owen, Jamie Vardy, Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink, Les Ferdinand, Nicolas Anelka



Top 5 Overall

  • Cristiano Ronaldo '06-09 (66 goals, 10 assists). Was in the 'best player in the world' discussion, the best peak we've witnessed in the Premier League era. Ballon d'Or. FIFA World Player of the Year. 2 x Player of the Season. Golden Boot. 3 x Premier League titles. European Golden Shoe
  • Thierry Henry '02-05 (79 goals, 40 assists). The Premier League's most complete attacker, and the best player to watch as a neutral. Ballon d'Or runner-up, but deserving winner. Premier League title. 2 x FWA Footballer of the Year. 2 x Golden Boot. Most assists. 2 x PFA Players' Player of the Year. 2 x European Golden Shoe
  • Luis Suarez '11-14 (65 goals, 20 assists). The best striker prime, Suarez's goals nearly won Liverpool the league title. European Golden Shoe. FWA Footballer of the Year. Player of the Season. Golden Boot. PFA Players' Player of the Year.
  • Mohamed Salah '17-20 (73 goals, 28 assists). The player with the most impressive sustained high level, instrumental in Liverpool's success. Premier League title. FWA Footballer of the Year. 2 x Golden Boot. Onze d'Argent. PFA Players' Player of the Year. Player of the Season.
  • Kevin De Bruyne '19-22 (34 goals, 40 assists). The best midfielder in the world, combines all the qualities of the great midfielders in the league's history: elite passer, game-winner, match-engine, playmaker and leader. 2 x Player of the Season. 2 x PFA Players' Player of the Year. 3 x Premier League. Playmaker of the Season. 3 X PFA Team of the Year. Ballon d'Or 3rd place.
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Amazing post!
 
roonster09 said:
Yeah it's debatable but I would say Salah edges it.

Also I disagree on "than anything we've seen in PL" part, for me Henry's peak was something else, not just goals, assists and numbers. In terms of total package his peak was just brilliant and would put him at #1.
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Agreed. There was just an aura around Henry, he played at such a high level above anyone in the league, the only time I felt something close to that was Suarez in 13/14. As great as Ronaldo was in 07/08, Torres was pretty fecking amazing and not too far off him in my opinion.

Henry had the stats, titles and just jaw dropping bits of skill and goals. He treated the PL like his playground with some of the stuff he used to pull off.

He could never quite replicate this outside of the PL but in the PL he’s still the standard.
 
BIG DUNK said:
I have tried to group the players into their respective positions, based on 'prime' and 'peak ability', as per the OP (i.e Giggs and Scholes would have been rated higher in a career version). This draft is only my first attempt, so I don't want to debate why I 'have Bertrand over Baines', there may be noticeable omissions:

Secondary or supporting strikers, including complete forwards
Thierry Henry
Wayne Rooney
Eric Cantona
Harry Kane
Dennis Bergkamp
Robin van Persie
Carlos Tevez
Roberto Firmino
Dwight Yorke
Gianfranco Zola

Honourable mention: Dimitar Berbatov, Matt Le Tissier, Teddy Sheringham, Eidur Gudjohnsen


Strikers and poachers
Luis Suarez
Alan Shearer
Erling Haaland
Sergio Aguero
Ruud van Nistelrooy
Didier Drogba
Fernando Torres
Andy Cole
Robbie Fowler
Ian Wright

Honourable mention: Michael Owen, Jamie Vardy, Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink, Les Ferdinand, Nicolas Anelka
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Good post, my only quibble would be Luis Suarez being considered Striker and poachers, while Henry is considered secondary or support striker. You caveat with 'complete forward' but Suarez was very much that at Liverpool. I would have said Suarez was a souped up support striker - Daniel Sturridge was the striker/poacher - whereas you couldn't say Henry was the secondary striker really - that was Dennis Bergkamp, although you could say complete forward.

There's an argument that both Henry and Bergkamp were playing as non-traditional strikers but if so, I believe you have to apply that to Suarez, who had 12 assists that season, 2.8 dribbles per game (2nd in the league after Hazard) and 2.7 key passes per game (third after Ozil and Silva) - that's complete forward or secondary striker role/skills.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
Highest non obvious player peaks is a fun one.

  • Michu
  • Darren Bent
  • Januzaj
  • Santa Cruz
  • That Sunderland striker who was unbelievable and then randomly went Saudi years ago
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Kanchelskis mid-90s is another one. he had become one of the very best 4-4-2 side-midfielder open play goalscorers, with 29 goals over his last two full PL seasons.Then his corrupt agents fecked it up.
 
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