Top 4 Race 19/20 | duffer: "We [Chelsea] are getting 3rd. Despite what the lunatics in here think, Man United are not all that."

So are we all thinking that Norwich will get that confirmed relegation bounce tonight vs Chelsea? :p
 
As i see it, we'll probably win the next two with LCFC drawing or losing their next two. We'll be at least 4th before even playing them.

It was dissapointing, but people need to chill here.
 
crossy1686 said:
Norwich playing with no pressure now, won’t be as easy as Chelsea expect it to be
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You would expect that. But they have lost all games post the restart and scored 1 goal in that period (6 games!). I don't have any hopes from Norwich. Liverpool on the other hand represent a chance for us.

Whatever it is, the final day of the PL is a guaranteed nail-biter. A win yesterday might've brought on the remote possibility that we would be confirmed top 4 by then. Not anymore though. Will just be happy to scrape through by whatever means.
 
If Norwich put in the sort of defence display they did against us in the cup they could easily come away with something. I'm not putting much faith in that happening though.
 
We looked tired last night. A consequence of naming an unchanged side for 5 games in a row. We don't have sufficient quality to be able to change the team though.

We are going to have to play the same team again against Palace as the 3 pts is vital. We are going to need to make wholesale changes in the FA Cup. It's a chance for Ole's first trophy but i'd much rather we prioritize the PL & EL. If we go out of the FA Cup so be it.

Palace, West Ham & Leicester are games we should win on paper. You can guarantee though that they will all raise their games against us.
 
Win the next 2 and top 4 will be wrapped up by the time we play Lecister
 
Samid said:
Sounds about right. Bookies take everything into consideration. Form, fixtures, injuries etc. Unlike the doom and gloomers on here who lose their minds after one poor result.


United
  • Top of the form table.
  • Palace. Rock bottom on form table with five losses on the bounce. Pretty much on the beach.
  • West Ham. Yes they 'need points'. But Brighton, Bournemouth, Villa also 'needed points' yet we dispatched them quite comfortably.
  • Leicester. No form. Most likely missing 3/4 of their first choice defence. Their creative force (Maddison) is a doubt.

Leicester
  • Have barely won a game since Christmas.
  • Pereira, Soy confirmed out. Chilwell, Maddison serious doubts. That's half of the core missing.
  • Sheffield. Rejuvenated in the last few games. Key defenders are back from injuries/suspension. They're 7th and Europa is in their hands (I've ruled out Arsenal winning the FA cup).
  • Spurs. Have improved defensively. Also still in Europa contention. Mourinho has a history of screwing over Brenton.
  • United. How will their makeshift defence cope with the most in form attack in the league? We made light work of Sheffield's makeshift defence recently.

Chelsea
  • Defensively they're all over the place.
  • Norwich. The easiest game any team could hope for at this stage. This will be a walk in the park.
  • Liverpool. Three important factors here. 1) This is the trophy lifting game so they'll be motivated. 2) They need 3 wins to break the points record. They need 7 points to reach the century and equal City's record. 3) They'll remind you that they're unbeaten at home for god knows how many games.
  • Wolves. They're a dark horse in this top 4 race. No one's really talking about them but in my opinion they're a bigger threat to Chelsea than Leicester are. If they beat Burnley and Palace they will be on 61 points. Assuming Chelsea win tonight and lose at Anfield they'll be on 63 points. A hungry wolf pack against a dodgy Chelsea defence and a potentially a CL spot on the line could be a really tasty proposition.

We should have won last night and ideally should have had top 4 secured before the final day. But shit happens. Nonetheless we're in the best position when you take everything into consideration.
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It does look very doable when you break it down like this. I've lost a lot of my positivity in the post-SAF circus but we've set us up very well for the run in, both Leicester and Chelsea would give an arm and a leg to swap their form and schedule with ours. So we should make top 4 without too much trouble.. Right?.... :nervous:
 
Samid said:
Sounds about right. Bookies take everything into consideration. Form, fixtures, injuries etc. Unlike the doom and gloomers on here who lose their minds after one poor result.


United
  • Top of the form table.
  • Palace. Rock bottom on form table with five losses on the bounce. Pretty much on the beach.
  • West Ham. Yes they 'need points'. But Brighton, Bournemouth, Villa also 'needed points' yet we dispatched them quite comfortably.
  • Leicester. No form. Most likely missing 3/4 of their first choice defence. Their creative force (Maddison) is a doubt.

Leicester
  • Have barely won a game since Christmas.
  • Pereira, Soy confirmed out. Chilwell, Maddison serious doubts. That's half of the core missing.
  • Sheffield. Rejuvenated in the last few games. Key defenders are back from injuries/suspension. They're 7th and Europa is in their hands (I've ruled out Arsenal winning the FA cup).
  • Spurs. Have improved defensively. Also still in Europa contention. Mourinho has a history of screwing over Brenton.
  • United. How will their makeshift defence cope with the most in form attack in the league? We made light work of Sheffield's makeshift defence recently.

Chelsea
  • Defensively they're all over the place.
  • Norwich. The easiest game any team could hope for at this stage. This will be a walk in the park.
  • Liverpool. Three important factors here. 1) This is the trophy lifting game so they'll be motivated. 2) They need 3 wins to break the points record. They need 7 points to reach the century and equal City's record. 3) They'll remind you that they're unbeaten at home for god knows how many games.
  • Wolves. They're a dark horse in this top 4 race. No one's really talking about them but in my opinion they're a bigger threat to Chelsea than Leicester are. If they beat Burnley and Palace they will be on 61 points. Assuming Chelsea win tonight and lose at Anfield they'll be on 63 points. A hungry wolf pack against a dodgy Chelsea defence and a potentially a CL spot on the line could be a really tasty proposition.

We should have won last night and ideally should have had top 4 secured before the final day. But shit happens. Nonetheless we're in the best position when you take everything into consideration.
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One thing which is key in United and Chelsea's run is the amount of rest. Both United and Chelsea will be playing their last 2 fixtures against teams who would have had a full weeks recovery period. Yesterday we saw the role fatigue could play. We need to be on our A-game against both CP and WHU early on to avoid jitters.
 
Zlaatan said:
It does look very doable when you break it down like this. I've lost a lot of my positivity in the post-SAF circus but we've set us up very well for the run in, both Leicester and Chelsea would give an arm and a leg to swap their form and schedule with ours. So we should make top 4 without too much trouble.. Right?.... :nervous:
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No one can answer that for you buddy. It's squeaky bum time.
 
passing-wind said:
Palace absolutely outplayed us start of the season, they have a combative spirit in what world can you be absolutely confident ? They are just as much a bogey team as Southampton. West Ham have been in weird form so I fancy a decent result.
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just on the basis of current form and squad. Palace doesn’t have a slightest chance, especially after such a result against Southampton yesterday - our players will destroy them (by many goals).

And it’s strange to refer to first half of the season - we had another team with different system and poor form.

Also, there is one more thing: if we seriously doubt our ability to destroy Palace, we don’t need CL. This is a nothing team, and it simply can not be a problem for us, should we aim to achieve anything
 
Chelsea will destroy Norwich.

The best we can hope from Chelsea now is a slip up against Liverpool but given Liverpool will know it's helping our cause I suspect they won't be bothered with doing us any favours.

In my opinion, the chance was lost to get above Chelsea last night, we're fighting it out with Leicester for fourth spot. Given their fixtures, you'd expect us to be going into the final game with an advantage but after watching how fragile we looked last night I wouldn't count my chickens. Palace away is huge.
 
At this point, Utd, Chelsea and Leicester are running on fumes with the games theyve had since the season resumed.

Leicester look really shot and them having a total meltdown to Bournemouth is worrying for them. From an objective point of view and at this moment in time, they look like they’ll be the ones wholl be 5th. Their season is the polar opposite of Utd, where they were awesome in the first half of it and mediocre in the second half.

Chelsea and Utd have the experience, individual quality and squad size to get over the line for 3rd or 4th, and who finishes where is anyones guess.
 
Our squad is big,granted,but it's not big on quality. Past the first 11 ,it really is bottom table stuff.
 
FrankDrebin said:
Our squad is big,granted,but it's not big on quality. Past the first 11 ,it really is bottom table stuff.
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From an outside looking in i think this will be your biggest issue.
Youve named an unchanged line up 5 games in a row iirc ? And they are now showing tiredness. Whilst on paper palace and west ham are easier games than the likes of what we or leicester have that only goes for your first 11.
If youre forced to rest some of your first 11 and bring the likes of lingaard perriera etc they go back to being games you struggled with like you did early on.
 
The holy trinity 68 said:
They signed Pulisic before the ban but he was still allowed to join.

We sold Lukaku and were relying on hope that Rashford and Martial would step up. No one knew that they would. Pogba was wanting out and Matic was on his last legs. No one knew if AWB would live up to expectations and Dan James was an unproven Championship player.

Kante, Jorginho, Kovacic, Azpilicueta, Alonso, Willian and Pedro would have been in or there abouts for Uniteds starting 11 at the start of the season if we did a combined 11.

People talking like Chelsea had a bad team without Hazard. It just so happens that Lampard is having a woeful time organising that defence.

Chelsea are 17th for goals conceded and 19th for away clean sheets kept. They have had 1 away clean sheet this season. This isn’t because Chelsea are such a terrible team, they have good players, but it’s because in my opinion the manager (Lampard) is not good enough.

No way if Conte was manager would you have such a terrible defensive record.
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Why are you acting like Rashford and Martial are young kids or new signings with doubts about turning up? Both have been highly rated for a while. If anything Pulisic was the one who should have had doubts about stepping up in a new league.

It seems your downplaying United's squad compared to Chelsea's. Talking about Pedro, Giroud, Alonso etc as some great players who get into or close to a combined 11 but there are doubts over Pogba, Rashford and Martial?

I love how you compared the best players previously and mentioned Giroud, Alonso and Pedro yet missed out DDG, Shaw, Mata and Bailly who would start/be there and abouts as well.
 
Open Goal said:
The cockiness here about steamrolling through 3rd and possibly even overtaking Manchester City for second was on the same level as that deluded Chelsea fan thinking Chelsea would make Sheff United lay down and lose like they're a nothing club.
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As below par as we were though, we could have easily come out of that match 2-1 if we didn't suffer a crisis at left back in the dying minutes. I'd be more worried about your lot and Leicester being spanked.
 
I think we may be overestimating the effect of fatigue here on our players. We strolled in large parts of the games against Brighton, Bournemouth and Villa. Southampton just have an incredible work ethic and we couldn't keep pace for 90 minutes. Add to the fact that for the last 6/7 minutes we were stretched with 10 men.

And if we are showing signs of fatigue, then it must be so much worse for the likes of Leicester and Chelsea. Ask any player, when you're playing well and getting results it just puts you in a different mindset. Leicester look like they might not pick up another point this season given the injuries and suspensions to key players.

Crystal Palace and West Ham should be a bit more like the Villa and Brighton games in terms of the control we should have on the game. Southampton don't let you get a foothold in the game, that's what they do. I don't think it's a reflection on our squad lack of fitness, moreso a reflection of quality and well drilled opposition in good form.

We're in good shape (bar LB) and good form, let's have a little faith. The key will be how we treat the FA Cup game.
 
Open Goal said:
The cockiness here about steamrolling through 3rd and possibly even overtaking Manchester City for second was on the same level as that deluded Chelsea fan thinking Chelsea would make Sheff United lay down and lose like they're a nothing club.
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If you thought the former was serious then I really question how you view things... City were on 66/69 Points when someone jokingly said this. United's maximum was 70. Come on. Let's get real and not even bring that silly remark into a conversation, If you're going to use that as grounds for starting a discussion then there is very little point in posting a message in the first place.

A lot of United fans thought Southampton would be a tough game and indeed it was. We got a bit unlucky, but my personal opinion is that the vast majority of people are overreacting and not just Manchester United fans. It was a blow to not cement third place and have that position in our hands, but third or fourth makes no difference and we're still in a very strong position to do it.

I would still be more worried as a Chelsea fan than I am as a Man Utd fan right now. I assume Chelsea will defeat Norwich but I really think you need a 3+ goal victory to feel better about things. I'll be amazed if you beat Liverpool, they've won 24/25 home games and despite being on the beach somewhat, they'll want to put in a good performance for the last home game of the season where I assume there will still be some kind of trophy presentation. Draw at best IMO. If Wolves win their two (very winnable) games before playing Chelsea, it's highly likely that if they beat you on the last day, they take the Champion's League place from you.

Leicester seem done for, but stranger things have of course happened. I'll be surprised if they get wins against both Sheffield United & Spurs at the moment (Spurs have one defeat since the restart and look more solid defensively while Sheffield United have also turned it around somewhat with big victories). If they suddenly switch it on and finish in the top four then all credit to them, but they have to beat three teams who are in much better form than they are.

As for Man Utd, I still think we're favourites for third place. This isn't being arrogant, I think it's quite realistic. Again, if Chelsea get 9/9 from the remaining games then fair enough, you deserve it. But just because Manchester United drew 2-2 with an in-form Southampton side and are 1 point behind Chelsea doesn't mean it's suddenly all over. We're the best team since the restart playing one of the worst since the restart and a West Ham side that might not even need the points by then. If we don't beat them both then again, I'll take it on the chin and be massively disappointed but I haven't seen anything in the recent weeks to suggest we will not do that. I have seen more fragility in Chelsea & Leicester and they have significantly more difficult fixtures.

As it stands, I'm saying:

3) Man Utd
4) Chelsea/Wolves
5) Chelsea/Leicester
6) Leicester/Wolves

I can see Leicester getting as few as 63 Points unless they find that spark and more importantly, some consistence. If Wolves win their next two, they'll be on 61 with the chance to get to 64 by beating Chelsea. If Chelsea lost to Liverpool they'd miss out with a loss to Wolves in this scenario. Even if Chelsea got a draw at Anfield, it's possible they could still miss out on goal difference to Wolves depending on the margin of victory if they lose (this is why I think punishing Norwich with a battering could be key). I still expect Man Utd to beat Palace & West Ham, so should be on 65 come the final day. I think only a loss to Leicester means we miss out, but that still requires them to get points against Sheffield United & Spurs (or beat one of them) to be able to overthrow United.

The last day is so key... I can even imagine a scenario where United & Chelsea both miss out if we have a loss against Palace/West Ham & Liverpool respectively and then lose on the last day. Imagine if the top four ended up being Liverpool, City, Leicester, and Wolves... :lol:
 
I don't think Wolves will beat Burnley, for what it's worth. It has a 1-1 draw written all over it.
 
Open Goal said:
Truth is, youve not lost in 18, but youve crumbled every chance to overtake us. It's a mental block at this point when it becomes a habit.

All 3 teams have problems. Yes, I am worried but so should you. There is a high chance Crystal Palace and West Ham wont just sit there and take a loss. You could very well be on the last game needing a win and Leicester only needing a Draw. I can see them holding out for a draw at home.

No team should feel comfortable, we are all on the fine line. United just as much as Chelsea. Yes, Leicester seems the most worrying but they can very well turn it around with big performances.
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We are not unbeaten in 18 in league. It's overall and we don't get points for cup games.

Also this is the first time we had chance to overtake Chelsea IIRC
 
As long as Leicester continue the way they are there is still the possibility that if we win our next 2 our game with them won’t matter. It’s massive for us that they fail to beat Sheffield United, because if we then beat Palace and West Ham they would have to win away to Spurs to save any hope of catching us.

Thursday night is massive for us. If we can’t win or if they win (or the nightmare scenario of they win and we don’t) then it’s all on us getting a result on the final day which has West Ham away 15/16 written all over it.

We win our last 3 and we 100% finish third and we’re the most likely out of the 3 teams to win our final games. We also have the Europa as back up if it all goes tits up. There are no excuses for Ole if we aren’t in the CL next season.
 
The race for the top four is very interesting. I think United will end up with the trophy.
 
dwd said:
Nah I think Wolves will win that, then it really becomes interesting.
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It's possible, sure, but away to Burnley who are only 5 points behind Wolves, the same distance between Chelsea and Wolves, it's an extremely tough game.
 
Chelsea will beat Norwich at home comfortably after losing last time and we all know Liverpool will bend over to them so it's Leicester imo we need to overtake. It's still not over but we really missed a huge chance last night.
 
We, as United fans, need to relax a little bit. The manner of the dropped points was very disappointing last night but for match day 35 we gained 1 point whilst Chelsea and Leicester gained 0. We still have the easiest run-in of the 3 of us. Yesterday was a combination of individual errors and bad luck. Rashford was close to scoring 2 more. Losing both left backs to injuries and not being able to use our last sub was bad luck & clearly disorganised things - ok the players on the pitch should have sorted themselves out to see the game to bed but these things happen.

Finally, the officials let us down massively. Hasenhuttl said after the game how the Southampton system only works if every single player presses & that their system falls down if just one person fails to press, as it did for 15 minutes in the first half. Well guess what? Their entire system should have been in tatters after 40 minutes but once again the amateur officiating in this country dropped the ball and missed a blatant, game-changing red card.

Look, under Fergie we'd be feeling sorry for Palace because we'd know they were about to feel our wrath. Let's hope Ole can prove himself here and inspire such a response from our players on the back of disappointment.
 
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Premier League Table Predictor

Does anybody want to do the predictions for United, Chelsea, Leicester and Wolves on the link above and let me know what you get for 3rd-6th place?

I have:

3rd: Man United - 66 points
4th: Chelsea - 66 points
5th: Leicester - 64 points
6th: Wolves - 61 points

Matchweek 37 is huge to our chances. Leicester away to Spurs. Chelsea away to Liverpool and United at home to West Ham.
 
MichaelRed said:
We, as United fans, need to relax a little bit. The manner of the defeat was very disappointing last night but for match day 35 we gained 1 point whilst Chelsea and Leicester gained 0. We still have the easiest run-in of the 3 of us. Yesterday was a combination of individual errors and bad luck. Rashford was close to scoring 2 more. Losing both left backs to injuries and not being able to use our last sub was bad luck & clearly disorganised things - ok the players on the pitch should have sorted themselves out to see the game to bed but these things happen.

Finally, the officials let us down massively. Hasenhuttl said after the game how the Southampton system only works if every single player presses & that their system falls down if just one person fails to press, as it did for 15 minutes in the first half. Well guess what? Their entire system should have been in tatters after 40 minutes but once again the amateur officiating in this country dropped the ball and missed a blatant, game-changing red card.

Look, under Fergie we'd be feeling sorry for Palace because we'd know they were about to feel our wrath. Let's hope Ole can prove himself here and inspire such a response from our players on the back of disappointment.
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I feel that we have the players to trash palace but right now fatigue has kicked in. We can still trash them though fingers crossed
 
Open Goal said:
Truth is, youve not lost in 18, but youve crumbled every chance to overtake us. It's a mental block at this point when it becomes a habit.

All 3 teams have problems. Yes, I am worried but so should you. There is a high chance Crystal Palace and West Ham wont just sit there and take a loss. You could very well be on the last game needing a win and Leicester only needing a Draw. I can see them holding out for a draw at home.

No team should feel comfortable, we are all on the fine line. United just as much as Chelsea. Yes, Leicester seems the most worrying but they can very well turn it around with big performances.
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No one can relax, every single team needs to be targeting 7 Points minimum from the last three games, although I think Leicester and Wolves are more likely to need all 9.

My main point overall since before the Southampton game was that I believe Man Utd needed 7-8 Points from the final four games. We're still very much on track to be able to achieve that. Anything can happen, it's football. But if you said to me beat Palace & West Ham with (probably) nothing to play for and don't lose to Leicester a few weeks ago, to get top 4, I'd have taken it all day long and I'm sure all of Chelsea, Wolves, Sheffield United, Spurs, Arsenal, Everton etc would have all bit your hand off to be in that scenario.

Obviously, slightly different for Chelsea as you have that extra point on the board, but Liverpool & Wolves are two hard games to have massive pressure on.
 
Open Goal said:
The cockiness here about steamrolling through 3rd and possibly even overtaking Manchester City for second was on the same level as that deluded Chelsea fan thinking Chelsea would make Sheff United lay down and lose like they're a nothing club.
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Not a single person expected us to overtake City for second for feck sake. We were enjoying the run we were/are on and having fun.
 
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