Top 4 Race 19/20 | duffer: "We [Chelsea] are getting 3rd. Despite what the lunatics in here think, Man United are not all that."

The fact is that everyone outside the top 2 is utterly atrocious. Of the teams that were heralded to break into the top 6 only Leicester seem to be improving. The standard is so poor & results unpredictable that we could see the top 6 being exactly the same as last year. We could also see 4 new teams making up 3rd to 6th.
 
charlenefan said:
There's no difference, everyone of the clubs I mentioned has their own issues which will ultimately see all 4 sides finish roughly around the same place as one another. Spurs dont play good football at all, have a squad that has gone stale and a manager who has done likewise. They seem to be finishing 3rd in most people's predictions by default rather than anything else. Arsenal dont play good football either, they have strikers that take the chances they create but in midfield and defence they're poor. Chelsea yeah ok this season thus far they've played some nice stuff but they dont have the quality to put the finish touches to it and defensively they're also a mess
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I think we can all agree no one is catching City and Liverpool.

If I had to put money on it I would still have Spurs for 3rd. But so many factors this early in the season that can influence the final placings. Some teams will go a lot deeper into European competition than others, and have to contend with all the extra matches and travel times. Injuries can pile up in key areas teams don't have a lot of cover for, etc etc.
 
charlenefan said:
There's no difference, everyone of the clubs I mentioned has their own issues which will ultimately see all 4 sides finish roughly around the same place as one another. Spurs dont play good football at all, have a squad that has gone stale and a manager who has done likewise. They seem to be finishing 3rd in most people's predictions by default rather than anything else. Arsenal dont play good football either, they have strikers that take the chances they create but in midfield and defence they're poor. Chelsea yeah ok this season thus far they've played some nice stuff but they dont have the quality to put the finish touches to it and defensively they're also a mess
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At the moment, it appears as though as all 4 teams are figuring things out. Chelsea certainly have had several key players missing that would alter how the team looks dramatically - I'm interested to see how Chelsea perform with Rudiger, Kante, Hudson-Odoi back in the team.

I've personally been pleasantly surprised by how the team has performed with what is essentially make-shift line-up whilst dealing with losing Hazard and the transfer ban.
 
So how are Wolves and Everton looking for their top 4 challenge?
 
I think it'll be Spurs in 3rd, they've too much quality in their side to not be in the top 4 regardless of current form. United often started seasons slow and then went on to win the league.

I think it'll be Chelsea in 4th. Their team is actually pretty good, the youngsters have injected some freshness to the squad.

Arsenal if they didn't have such a poor defence would be up there, but I just can't see it currently.

I can see one or two of the likes of Leceister etc pushing into the top 6 at either ours or Arsenal's expense.
 
Leicester might get top 4 to be honest along with Chelsea/Spurs. Arsenal don't seem to be playing that well, and they were pretty lucky against Villa. United just look woeful and can't score enough goals. Spurs are pretty inconsistent, but should hit a good run of form. Chelsea are playing well under Lampard in the league but not all that convincing.
 
marktan said:
I think it'll be Spurs in 3rd, they've too much quality in their side to not be in the top 4 regardless of current form. United often started seasons slow and then went on to win the league.

I think it'll be Chelsea in 4th. Their team is actually pretty good, the youngsters have injected some freshness to the squad.

Arsenal if they didn't have such a poor defence would be up there, but I just can't see it currently.

I can see one or two of the likes of Leceister etc pushing into the top 6 at either ours or Arsenal's expense.
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I really dont see leicester or any of the pretenders to make up 15 points on arsenal/united. Both were inconsistent last season and finished way above them. Arsenal and Leicester have same points now. One is getting a lot of praise while the other one is looking poor. Leicester has only Vardy. They dont even have second striker on the bench and their first attacking sub usually i Allbrighton.

Wolves dont gave the depth and were lucky with injuries last season and Everton dont have one consistent goalscorer. As flawed as Arsenal are they have Auba and Lacazette. That will get them.points
 
Man United, Spurs and Arsenal will slug it out for third and fourth places. I don't see Chelsea doing well this season.

Spurs and Arsenal are our competition.
 
Think Leicester will be challenging for a CL spot. Could West Ham get an EL spot?
 
Watching tonight's game gives me a lot of optimism for the top 4. I didn't really have any designs on the top 4 before the season started, but I'm starting to think that was misplaced pessimism.
 
We're all as shit as each other IMO. Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea, United, Leicester... possibly West ham but they never keep it up. All 6 teams around the same level like it was for the majority of those last season. Who gets in the top 4 will be a toss up based on timing of injuries and form probably.
 
I'm confident it will be Liverpool, City, Chelsea, Spurs, probably in that order. Their squads are comfortably better than the rest.
 
Leftback99 said:
I'm confident it will be Liverpool, City, Chelsea, Spurs, probably in that order. Their squads are comfortably better than the rest.
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The Chelsea squad isn't better than United's or Arsenal's, never mind comfortably better. Their manager definitely is better though.
 
Mogget said:
The Chelsea squad isn't better than United's or Arsenal's, never mind comfortably better. Their manager definitely is better though.
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Our squad is easily better than United's. As for Arsenal, you guys probably have a slightly better first XI, but we have superior depth and aren't seriel bottlers like you are.
 
Orc said:
Our squad is easily better than United's. As for Arsenal, you guys probably have a slightly better first XI, but we have superior depth and aren't seriel bottlers like you are.
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No it's not. Whilst the feeling may well be mutual there's only one Chelsea player I'd have at United
 
charlenefan said:
No it's not. Whilst the feeling may well be mutual there's only one Chelsea player I'd have at United
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That's madness to me. I'd have two United players in our XI, Maguire and Pogba. That's it.

I think we're massively superior currently in midfield and we create and score goals for fun in attack so I'd have our attackers at the moment as well.
 
Orc said:
That's madness to me. I'd have two United players in our XI, Maguire and Pogba. That's it.

I think we're massively superior currently in midfield and we create and score goals for fun in attack so I'd have our attackers at the moment as well.
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And that's where we differ

Ask me which side is currently in the better form the answer is obviously Chelsea. Ask me whether I'd want any of your players for the long term and Kante aside it's a resounding no
 
Orc said:
Our squad is easily better than United's. As for Arsenal, you guys probably have a slightly better first XI, but we have superior depth and aren't seriel bottlers like you are.
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Arsenal look just as poor as Utd. Two awful teams.
 
charlenefan said:
And that's where we differ

Ask me which side is currently in the better form the answer is obviously Chelsea. Ask me whether I'd want any of your players for the long term and Kante aside it's a resounding no
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I mean, fair enough if that's your opinion. But if I were in your position watching the likes of Rashford, Lingard, Ashley Young, etc I'd kill for players like Mount, CHO, Jorginho, and Tammy.

But anyways, as for the Top 4 race, I think if we can get and keep Kante and Rüdiger fit we should definitely have enough to squeak in there. We'd have great balance and play a nice brand of football that should keep us very competitive.
 
Best starting XI is debatable on paper but our squad is comfortably better than Utd's IMO, we've got so much more depth in midfield and attack. Utd's bench options are severely lacking.
 
It’s like the Scottish league. Top two (City & Liverpool being the Old Firm) are a million miles ahead of the rest.

Anyone could finish 3rd, 4th. Leicester look a very good shout this early on
 
Liverpool and City are the obvious ones. Chelsea IMO will be there too, they just have the fresh players and faces with an attacking game, which will be enough to make it. It works.

The 4th position will be interesting though. Spurs, United and Arsenal are all bad this season so far, just not convincing. Leicester could make it as well. I think it will be between Spurs and Arsenal. I dont see us in the top 6 anyway.
 
bosnian_red said:
We're all as shit as each other IMO. Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea, United, Leicester... possibly West ham but they never keep it up. All 6 teams around the same level like it was for the majority of those last season. Who gets in the top 4 will be a toss up based on timing of injuries and form probably.
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Goal power of those teams is all better than Man. United imo. Since Chelsea you've played six league games and not scored more than one goal in any of them. Haven't even scored more than once in the europa game or v Rochdale.

Certainly Arsenal and Chelsea have their flaws at the back but they are more likely to win games 3-2 as they've shown already in last few weeks.
 
FootballHQ said:
Goal power of those teams is all better than Man. United imo. Since Chelsea you've played six league games and not scored more than one goal in any of them. Haven't even scored more than once in the europa game or v Rochdale.

Certainly Arsenal and Chelsea have their flaws at the back but they are more likely to win games 3-2 as they've shown already in last few weeks.
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For us we easily have the best defence which is what will carry us, but yeah we need goals. We'll rely on Martial and Pogba staying fit over the season (or until January), which they haven't managed to so far. Still isn't amazing, but I have big hopes for Martial this year so we'll see.
 
bosnian_red said:
For us we easily have the best defence which is what will carry us, but yeah we need goals. We'll rely on Martial and Pogba staying fit over the season (or until January), which they haven't managed to so far. Still isn't amazing, but I have big hopes for Martial this year so we'll see.
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Some good players there but still a struggle to keep clean sheets (although seems everyone below top 2 can't really keep clean sheets).

Think Man. United will eventually put together 3 or 4 match winning run but also plenty more 1-1s and low scoring defeats before January aswell.
 
Can't see us getting top 6 nevermind top 4. First 11 not good enough, no threat or creativity. Too easy to set up against. Our squad is too light also, and as utd always is top of injury lists than was a naive move not to add few more players in summer. Then with EL in mix ,we will be really stretched. Then ole comes into the discussion, love ole but don't think he going to work out as manager,doesnt seen tactically up to it and maybe too nice a guy.Clearly pool city spurs are better than us. Arsenal and Chelsea have stronger squads imo and are more dangerous going forward. Then Leicester wolves and west ham are probably about our current level. I foresee a very disappointing season unfortunately.but I suppose the upward curve starts somewhere. Ddg signed, awb maguire and James are all improvements. Hopefully greenwood/gomes can get enough mins to use this season as a launching pad for them at utd. And hopefully Scott can keep improving. Rest of squad I couldn't care less about, they all should be fighting for their utd careers.
 
If United keep their current form going 9 points from 7 games we are looking at 45 to 50 points. Good news is we should avoid relegation but the bad news is we will not be within an ass's roar to 4th.
 
Almost felt like a Chelsea win tonight watching that game, absolutely hopeless from both teams.

I've always liked Ole as a player and man so I feel a bit bad for saying this but my word he's a terrible manager.
 
Top two aren't even debatable. Chelsea, Spurs, and to some extent Arsenal are better equipped than us. We have a slight advantage in defence and goalies (if we could get old DDG back) but since we don't create enough scoring chances and wasteful when we get them. CL is beyond us.
 
Given how things are going for most big teams, expect the busiest winter transfer window? Many big money signings.

This could be one season where 55-60pts could be good enough for the 4th spot...
 
Orc said:
I mean, fair enough if that's your opinion. But if I were in your position watching the likes of Rashford, Lingard, Ashley Young, etc I'd kill for players like Mount, CHO, Jorginho, and Tammy.

But anyways, as for the Top 4 race, I think if we can get and keep Kante and Rüdiger fit we should definitely have enough to squeak in there. We'd have great balance and play a nice brand of football that should keep us very competitive.
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It can all change very quickly though, certainly before the start of the season and after the first game no one was saying they'd rather have Tammy Abraham over Rashford and like I said longer term players like Abraham and Mount aren't going win anyone PL titles which is surely the aspirations of both United and Chelsea
 
Other than the top 2, this is the easiest year to get top 4 since top 6 became a thing.
1) Spurs in free fall.
2) Chelsea lost their best player, transfer ban, 3-4 youngsters playing every match, rookie coach.
3) Arsenal are Arsenal.
4) United in free fall.
I think West Ham, Leicester, etc. will unlikely have a better chance to get top 4 than this year.
 
It’s looking like United would only need to finish above one of Arsenal and Chelsea to get top four and we are going to struggle to do that.
 
A lot depends on how much we suffer through injuries.

At this point the europa seems a much easier route into the champions league than a top 4 finish
 
Thought it would be interesting to see how the Top 4 contenders results this season compare to last

Arsenal
Newcastle (a) 1-2/0-1
Burnley (h) 3-1/2-1
Liverpool (a) 5-1/3-1
Spurs (h) 4-2/2-2
Watford (a) 0-1/2-2
Aston Villa (h) 4-1/3-2 (using Fulham as an equivalent)
Man Utd (a) 2-2/1-1

16/12 - Arsenal are 4 points down on last season

Chelsea
Man Utd (a) 1-1/4-0
Leicester (h) 0-1/1-1
Norwich (a) 1-2/2-3 (using Cardiff as an equivalent)
Sheffield United (h) 5-0/2-2 (using Huddersfield as an equivalent)
Wolves (a) 2-1/2-5
Liverpool (h) 1-1/1-2
Brighton (h) 3-0/2-0

11/11 - Chelsea have got the exact same number of points as last season

Spurs
Aston Villa (h) 3-1/3-1 (again using Fulham as an equivalent)
Man City (a) 1-0/2-2
Newcastle (h) 1-0/0-1
Arsenal (a) 4-2/2-2
Palace (h) 2-0/4-0
Leicester (a) 0-2/2-1
Southampton (h) 3-1/2-1
Brighton (a) 1-2/3-0

18/11 - unsurprisingly Spurs are 7 points worse off this season

Man Utd
Chelsea (h) 1-1/4-0
Wolves (a) 2-1/1-1
Palace (h) 0-0/1-2
Southampton (a) 2-2/1-1
Leicester (h) 2-1/1-0
West Ham (a) 3-1/2-0
Arsenal (h) 2-2/1-1

7/9 - curtesy of the opening day win against Chelsea we're still actually 2 points better off than last season (could all change tomorrow though)

Ergo we're the only side doing better, Chelsea are doing the same, Arsenal are slightly worse off, Spurs are doing the worst
 
charlenefan said:
Thought it would be interesting to see how the Top 4 contenders results this season compare to last

Arsenal
Newcastle (a) 1-2/0-1
Burnley (h) 3-1/2-1
Liverpool (a) 5-1/3-1
Spurs (h) 4-2/2-2
Watford (a) 0-1/2-2
Aston Villa (h) 4-1/3-2 (using Fulham as an equivalent)
Man Utd (a) 2-2/1-1

16/12 - Arsenal are 4 points down on last season

Chelsea
Man Utd (a) 1-1/4-0
Leicester (h) 0-1/1-1
Norwich (a) 1-2/2-3 (using Cardiff as an equivalent)
Sheffield United (h) 5-0/2-2 (using Huddersfield as an equivalent)
Wolves (a) 2-1/2-5
Liverpool (h) 1-1/1-2
Brighton (h) 3-0/2-0

11/11 - Chelsea have got the exact same number of points as last season

Spurs
Aston Villa (h) 3-1/3-1 (again using Fulham as an equivalent)
Man City (a) 1-0/2-2
Newcastle (h) 1-0/0-1
Arsenal (a) 4-2/2-2
Palace (h) 2-0/4-0
Leicester (a) 0-2/2-1
Southampton (h) 3-1/2-1
Brighton (a) 1-2/3-0

18/11 - unsurprisingly Spurs are 7 points worse off this season

Man Utd
Chelsea (h) 1-1/4-0
Wolves (a) 2-1/1-1
Palace (h) 0-0/1-2
Southampton (a) 2-2/1-1
Leicester (h) 2-1/1-0
West Ham (a) 3-1/2-0
Arsenal (h) 2-2/1-1

7/9 - curtesy of the opening day win against Chelsea we're still actually 2 points better off than last season (could all change tomorrow though)

Ergo we're the only side doing better, Chelsea are doing the same, Arsenal are slightly worse off, Spurs are doing the worst
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Context matters. Chelsea performing to the same level as last season with a rookie manager, having lost Hazard and serving a transfer ban is incredibly commendable.

Also, as a general exercise, comparing results to the same teams last season ignoring the context those games were played in is pretty flawed.
 
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