Toni Kroos | Madridista

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Madrid, Chelsea, City, Arsenal, Liverpool and PSG are licking their juicy lips. United will have to do with second rate talent this summer or we have to unearth a few young up and coming sapphires.

In the past the biggest problem we had when going up against those clubs for a player was geographical and money. Now we've also got no CL football to offer. Not going to happen unless none of the above are interested in signing a world class midfielder. Lolz.
 
It's just Bayern sending a message to him. I doubt it'll come down to actually selling him unless he pushes for a move.
 
datura said:
Players move for all kinds of reasons - money, location, manager, club they supported, chance of trophies, exciting project etc. Not being in Europe for one season doesn't mean a lot unless it's a senior player like RvP who has little time left to win a trophy.
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You've just mentioned all the reasons why we won't stand a chance when the likes of PSG, Madrid, Barca, Chelsea, Arsenal and City come calling.

The only chance we will have is when all of the above don't come and compete with us for said players.
 
datura said:
Players move for all kinds of reasons - money, location, manager, club they supported, chance of trophies, exciting project etc. Not being in Europe for one season doesn't mean a lot unless it's a senior player like RvP who has little time left to win a trophy.
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Very much true.

People are exaggerating the impact of finishing outside the top 4 for one season.
 
akash02 said:
Very much true.

People are exaggerating the impact of finishing outside the top 4 for one season.
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It would have to be one season though, two tops, but we'd be fine if we concentrated on the league and used the second string for the EL if that's where we end up.I expect we'd be up there no probs assuming we buy well and keep the important players
 
datura said:
Players move for all kinds of reasons - money, location, manager, club they supported, chance of trophies, exciting project etc. Not being in Europe for one season doesn't mean a lot unless it's a senior player like RvP who has little time left to win a trophy.
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I agree that players move for all sorts of reasons, but how do you know we will only be out of the UCL for one season. Liverpool, Everton and Spurs are all improving at a fast rate.
Being in the Champions League is a good way of attracting the best players, some players would choose City, Arsenal or Chelsea, maybe even Liverpool over us if it meant Champions League football.
 
Getsme said:
I agree that players move for all sorts of reasons, but how do you know we will only be out of the UCL for one season. Liverpool, Everton and Spurs are all improving at a fast rate.
Being in the Champions League is a good way of attracting the best players, some players would choose City, Arsenal or Chelsea, maybe even Liverpool over us if it meant Champions League football.
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How do you know Arsenal will be in the CL for the season after? You are only 'guaranteed' one season of CL football at any club you join. I wouldn't say Spurs are improving that much and Everton will always be restricted by their budget and will probably finish in the same position as they did under Moyes.
 
datura said:
How do you know Arsenal will be in the CL for the season after?
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I don't, that's my point. Just like there's no guarantee we will.
datura said:
You are only 'guaranteed' one season of CL football at any club you join.
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Indeed, but once you're out of the top 4 it's hard to get back in, Liverpool are a good example of that. No matter what way you put it, clubs that play in the UCL have a bigger pull to players than clubs that don't. It's not the be all and end all but it's big enough that it could make the difference on where a player decides to go.
datura said:
. I wouldn't say Spurs are improving that much and Everton will always be restricted by their budget and will probably finish in the same position as they did under Moyes.
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Spurs, they've not had a great season but they are getting better. It's going to take time for all their new players to settle, losing Bale was a massive blow to them but they will be there or thereabouts next season.
If Everton get in the UCL they won't have those restrictions, there is nothing to suggest that they have no chance of qualifying. Clubs have the added bonus of TV revenue, so the smaller clubs will only get stronger.
 
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Set of Bayern's published earnings. Allegedly why Kroos is so open to a move, his lack or parity with others in the squad. Juventus are apparently also interested, even though they already have about eighteen top class midfielders.
 
Most reports have Götze on 8 with additional bonus payments, not on 12 and Ribery on 10.5. Bild stated in that report that those numbers are guessed. They might have included sign-on payments, which has nothing to do with the wage bill. Kroos will end up on the same level as Müller, Thiago, if that's not enough for him, he probably has to leave. Doubt we agree on a deal that puts him on the same level as Schweinsteiger, Lahm, Ribery and above Müller and Robben.
 
Balu said:
Most reports have Götze on 8 with additional bonus payments, not on 12 and Ribery on 10.5. Bild stated in that report that those numbers are guessed. They might have included sign-on payments, which has nothing to do with the wage bill. Kroos will end up on the same level as Müller, Thiago, if that's not enough for him, he probably has to leave. Doubt we agree on a deal that puts him on the same level as Schweinsteiger, Lahm, Ribery and above Müller and Robben.
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A few clubs will be prepared to go that high for him I reckon, so you could be in trouble.
 
KiD MoYeS said:
A few clubs will be prepared to go that high for him I reckon, so you could be in trouble.
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Pretty sure most of our players had significantly higher offers in the last years, Götze and Lewandowski certainly did. If he wants to leave to earn more money, fair enough, his choice. Even in our treble winning season last year we still had a lower wage bill as for example United, let alone City, Chelsea, PSG, Real or Barca, despite huge bonus payments. We can't match all offers to our players and we need a working wage structure at the club.
 
I know. I was paying close attention to Götze and Kroos last night during game against Hamburg.

Those players are unreal

Just watch Kroos assist to Robben for the goal and Götze's assist to Mandzukic goal.
 
Suedesi said:
I know. I was paying close attention to Götze and Kroos last night during game against Hamburg.

Those players are unreal

Just watch Kroos assist to Robben for the goal and Götze's assist to Mandzukic goal.
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I was doing the same in the break of our game. Kroos assist was absolutely ridiculous.

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That was lovely, and fortunately we do have players like Rooney and Mata that can accomplish this too. You just need a winger with an actual ability to make a forward run and a high defensive line, and hey presto you have a beautiful goal. Not to take anything away from Kroos though, and having another player who can do that in the locker is all the merrier.
 
Red Shorts said:
That was lovely, and fortunately we do have players like Rooney and Mata that can accomplish this too. You just need a winger with an actual ability to make a forward run and a high defensive line, and hey presto you have a beautiful goal. Not to take anything away from Kroos though, and having another player who can do that in the locker is all the merrier.
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exactly....

the defending was pretty poor too - defender turned like a number 32 bus
 
Red Shorts said:
That was lovely, and fortunately we do have players like Rooney and Mata that can accomplish this too. You just need a winger with an actual ability to make a forward run and a high defensive line, and hey presto you have a beautiful goal. Not to take anything away from Kroos though, and having another player who can do that in the locker is all the merrier.
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The issue is the run from Robben. Not one of our lot would make such an aggressive run in behind. The only runs in behind they make is out wide to be played into space to cross. You won't get any goals out there. This is why I would love a wide man like Pedro, who is effectively a centre-forward out wide. His running is threatening.
 
Red Shorts said:
That was lovely, and fortunately we do have players like Rooney and Mata that can accomplish this too. You just need a winger with an actual ability to make a forward run and a high defensive line, and hey presto you have a beautiful goal. Not to take anything away from Kroos though, and having another player who can do that in the locker is all the merrier.
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Was about to write this. We can have 20 playmakers in the team but there'll be no use of them if our off-ball movement will be as poor as it currently is.
 
Rozay said:
The issue is the run from Robben. Not one of our lot would make such an aggressive run in behind. The only runs in behind they make is out wide to be played into space to cross. You won't get any goals out there. This is why I would love a wide man like Pedro, who is effectively a centre-forward out wide. His running is threatening.
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Yeah that's what I was trying to highlight. Having Kroos in the middle would be brilliant for balls like this, but I see his threat outside the box as the greatest new weapon we would have offensively, as our wing play is simply not able to accommodate exquisite balls like this. We are capable of producing fine through balls like this (van Persie's volley vs Villa courtesy of Rooney anyone?), but Moyes' setup and tactics does not allow us to create such opportunities anymore.

I would like Di Maria as a player who could also make those sort of threatening runs, and a dream for the likes of Kags, Mata and Rooney.
 
I don't get the hype around that goal either. We score goals like that quite often and it's clearly part of our tactics. Müller scored a comparable goal in each game against City and both times Dante gave the assist. Almost all our players make those runs and almost all our players in the deeper positions can play that pass, the fullbacks, centerbacks, midfielders. It might look more elegant when it's Kroos to Robben, but that's really the main difference. It's clearly coached into all of them, that's the secret. Of course we have players with brilliant off the ball movement and they would move without the manager telling them to do (Müller the prime example), but at the moment it's clearly visible that everyone does it. You don't need to buy Pedro for it, who actually wasn't really impressive in the last 2 years (maybe another sign that Guardiola's coaching was a huge part of his runs?), you can tell the players you have to move, but that's the job of the manager.

Here are Müller's goals against City:

 
Anderson18 said:
I was doing the same in the break of our game. Kroos assist was absolutely ridiculous.

robben_003_medium.gif
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To be fair, that's a good pass and a great run by Robben as well. He had a lot to do after the pass, he timed his run perfectly, controlled well and finished nicely. I thought it was all about Robben, but it was a good pass by Kroos
 
Not that comparing anyone to Robben is fair, but contrast the way Robben runs centrally to where Valencia would be in that situation. Tony V would be way out at the touchline, standing static and waiting for Rooney's long ball.

We need Nani back.
 
fishfingers15 said:
To be fair, that's a good pass and a great run by Robben as well. He had a lot to do after the pass, he timed his run perfectly, controlled well and finished nicely. I thought it was all about Robben, but it was a good pass by Kroos
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A good pass? He sees Robben starting with great vision and plays the ball with perfect height and weight. How Robben converts it is world class too but as a deep lying play maker, that's a text book pass.
 
Anderson18 said:
For me it sounded like he tried to say that it was just a good pass, not anything special that you'll see in any match. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
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To be fair, it is a standard pass at Bayern; like Balu showed above they did it twice against City, they're just so goddamn good at it!
 
Red Shorts said:
To be fair, it is a standard pass at Bayern; like Balu showed above they did it twice against City, they're just so goddamn good at it!
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That's why they are one of the greatest sides to ever play this game. Because world class actions happen like a common thing there. If Cleverley or Carrick made that pass, we'd be talking about it for months.
 
Anderson18 said:
That's why they are one of the greatest sides to ever play this game. Because world class actions happen like a common thing there. If Cleverley or Carrick made that pass, we'd be talking about it for months.
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Can't argue here.
 
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