His positioning as a CM is pretty bad, especially if he needs to be at the base of a 4-2-3-1. His positioning is better in a midfield 3 but that's only because the role allows him to drift a lot more.
Tom Cleverley | 2012-14 Performances
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His positioning as a CM is pretty bad, especially if he needs to be at the base of a 4-2-3-1. His positioning is better in a midfield 3 but that's only because the role allows him to drift a lot more.
Yeah easily. Remember the start of last season???
Decent talent, nothing more or less.
I remember it not lasting long.
Same applies to Anderson and hes in the first team for a hell of a lot longer...
A lot of people have said this but the difference is that Carrick defended well, often covering Scholes as well, so you had the balance between Scholes directing the team and Carrick keeping it solid, Clev is passive and positionally suspect. I think he can improve though but this is why it's all the more impreitive that we get in someone else who can do Carrick's role because of if Carrick gets injured/needs a rest and also for games like this where we might be better of with two solid midfielders.
They're two ok/decent midfielders, I rate them about the same level.
Fitness was superb today. Definately improving by the game. Very tidy and efficient today. But as usual, who wouldn't want to see him become more of a goal threat.
I also remember him playing in many other matches in the previous two seasons where he was just ok. Since he came back from his Wigan loan to now, there hasn't that much improvement in his game in all honesty. He's still young so patience is needed.
Yep and its his positioning at the base of 4-2-3-1 that is the big worry as we rarely set up in a 4-3-3 nowadays so to be of any use consistently he needs to learn that position better.
Made Shelvey look better than he is today, too easy to glide past in a 2 man midfield.
His learning process takes place at the highest level. Carrick's in comparison was done with West Ham. He'll be an important player for us over the coming years.
Would I be wrong in saying that this was his worst game in a United shirt? He looked completely useless to me today, bad positioning, no creativity at all and surprisingly made a lot of mistakes in basic passes. I hope that is is because he played 3 games in a week and for some players this could be too much in the beginning of the season where the fitness levels aren't at best. But truly I have been disappointed with him in both our matches. Probably Ando should start next week.
I guess we all see things differently. I dont think that was his worst performance. He had some bad stray passes in the first half but was fine after that. I thought he was very good in the CS. One thing people sometimes dont think about with how players are performing is the issue of how and why they are playing a certain way. Sometimes they are playing deep because thats where the coach has asked them to etc etc.
Yes. He was decent, if not at his best. Slightly hindered, as a possession player, by the fact that our game plan was clearly to allow them to keep possession in harmless areas.
Worst game? I think that is going a bit too far. Wasn't bad, but didnt really do anything impressive either.
Nowhere near his worst game. As someone mentioned above, his fitness levels certainly looked good. He had games towards the end of last season where he virtually died after 60 mins. It was one of his least spectacular games, but it was a very average game rather than a particularly poor one.
I knew that you'll respond here, you're the wr8_utd of Cleverley (just kidding
). I don't think that he was near at his best (assuming that his best was at the beginning of 2011-2012 and the first half of last season). He looked to me today like how Buttner usually looks as a left back, absolutely clueless on what he was doing. And as I said he misplaced some easy passes which was unnatural for him. His creativity was non-existent but that happens at times. Didn't liked him at all today, and never understood how Moyes waited 85 minutes before he replaced him.I can't really think what his worst game is.
Thought he was pants today. Not too worried, though, seen enough to still have high hopes.
The good news is that Anderson is looking good so far and if one has a bad game or drops form then we have a good replacement. Right now it feels a bit like a win win with those two for me.
I knew that you'll respond here, you're the wr8_utd of Cleverley (just kidding
I agree he wasn't at his best, but he certainly wasn't 'clueless'. He and Carrick did a pretty good job. They let Swansea have Rodgers-esque possession (passing it between their CMs and CBs) but piled on the pressure when they got into our half. After that first 20 minutes, the vast majority of their chances came from crosses, because they hadn't had much luck cutting through the middle.
Obviously he'll do better in games where we look to dominate possession, because that's the type of player he is. But having him in there prevents us from getting pushed too far back or having too little of the ball. When we're playing that game plan, Anderson tends to panic and try and find a killer pass as soon as the ball gets to him, and we struggle to keep the ball. Cleverley always knows how to find that couple of seconds extra to keep us on the ball, and I think that was important today.
You call me the wr8 of Cleverley, but as far as I can tell his overeager detractors are just like those who used to say Carrick was shit: they get an idea about him in their heads, and utterly fail to see the subtle but crucial things he does for the team. We almost always play worse football without him than with him. I'm all for getting a Fabregas of Gundogan in, but until then he's definitely our best option there.
He's a decent player. I expect him to be a good squad player for a long time but we need some top quality players in CM as starters.
Funny how at the start of last season people thought he was the new Zidane
Funny how at the start of last season people thought he was the new Zidane
No-one has ever said that except the voices in your head.
I disagree that he's better than a fit Ando, but I don't expect that we'll ever agree here. The comparisons with Carrick are ridiculous, Cleverley hasn't ever been as good as Carrick (not this Carrick, I am talking about the Carrick of 2010-2011 when while still not that good was a better player than Cleverley has ever shown).
Anyway, looking at your post you say that without him we struggle to keep the ball. To be fair, we struggled a lot at it today (especially before we scored those goals against the run of the game), I don't see how he helped us to keep the ball, when we didn't keep it that much. And I think that even his easy passes today weren't good. At least in two occasions he made poor passes when he was without any kind of pressure and the player he wanted to pass was less that 10m away. He usually is good at basics but not today. Hopefully he'll improve (or not start) for the Chelsea game or we'll be in deep trouble.
There were some big exaggerations that he's amazing but no-one has said that he's the next Zidane/Xavi/Scholes. The majority of people here thought that he's a good squad player with potential to be a competent first team player and knowing our limited options there, our second best midfielder. Not wrong in those opinions, IMO.
Bingo. I had a suspicion you might be thinking that. Possession does not equal a good performance. Our game plan today was clearly to allow them to knock it about in less dangerous areas, and only press once they actually tried to attack. We didn't struggle to dominate possession, we just never tried to do it. Ever since superBarca people don't seem to be able to wrap their head around this idea.
You're right though, we're clearly never going to agree, so there's not much point arguing about it.
It's Tom's awareness when not in possession that troubles me....he signs up for too much ball-watching. He just doesn't seem to be able to track his runners from midfield and it is something he has still not got to grips with. If he can sort that then he will be a fine midfielder for United.
You're sure that we didn't want to keep possession today? If so why? We were the third team in Europe that had the higher possession stat last season (or at-least during the first 4-5 months) and I doubt that Moyes said to team, to let Swansea keep the ball forever as long as it wasn't nearer than 30 yards from our goal.
He's really not cut out to play alongside Carrick. He is unable to control the midfield. We need to sign someone urgently.
what games are you watching?????
I hate to piss on the parade, but as much as I had great hopes for Tom, I don't see him being the player we all thought he would be & that he's way too over-rated by us & Roy Hodgson also.
That Community Shield performance of his against City, when we were 2nil down at half-time a couple of seasons ago & ended up winnin 3-2, I thought Cleverly was superb & was what we were craving for. Full of energy, neat & tidy, great in tight situations & a great inter-linker etc.. - Iniesta-esque in many ways.
I don't think that now though. He wont make it at United until he can even hit a barn-door. His shootin is woeful at best & now that he's been a regular for quite a while in first-teams - he hasn't improved at all, in fact he's gone backwards in some respects. His decision-makin is poor & passin of slow hospital balls is increasing with every game.
He's no Scholesy that's for sure, but that's the type of player we need & I think Adnan & Kagawa is much closer to that type than Tom is & they should be given a chance to play that role asap.
More to the point, Adnan's game is more deserved of first-team play at the moment than Toms. If you're good enough - you're old enough, and that lad can pick a pass out without even thinkin about it - Tom cant!
That Community Shield performance of his against City, when we were 2nil down at half-time a couple of seasons ago & ended up winnin 3-2, I thought Cleverly was superb & was what we were craving for. Full of energy, neat & tidy, great in tight situations & a great inter-linker etc.. - Iniesta-esque in many ways.
I don't think that now though. He wont make it at United until he can even hit a barn-door. His shootin is woeful at best & now that he's been a regular for quite a while in first-teams - he hasn't improved at all, in fact he's gone backwards in some respects. His decision-makin is poor & passin of slow hospital balls is increasing with every game.
He's no Scholesy that's for sure, but that's the type of player we need & I think Adnan & Kagawa is much closer to that type than Tom is & they should be given a chance to play that role asap.
More to the point, Adnan's game is more deserved of first-team play at the moment than Toms. If you're good enough - you're old enough, and that lad can pick a pass out without even thinkin about it - Tom cant!
what games are you watching?????
Same games as me. Tom's not the type of player that's gonna push us on. I find Toms game extremely boring if i'm being brutally honest. If he could actually shoot at goal with any purpose to score, then maybe that would alter my opinion more, but he cant & his game is very much similar to what we've seen with Andersons his time here - promising, but no progression!
We haven't even seen Spuds, Chelsea or City yet this season, but on paper - their central mid-field shits all over ours in many peoples eyes!
Its no coincidence we were after Cesc & Thiago. If one of those were signed, then Tom wouldn't be a starter that's for sure!
According toThiago we never tried to sign him.
Hasn't been the same since the injury.
He was the answer before the injury but something has changed.
That's true man, but I, like most United & football fans in general, find it strange that the day after Thiago agrees to sign for Bayern - we put a bid in for Cesc?!
Shit thing is, if we weren't in for Thiago - then why the feck not?! That dude is exactly what we friggin need, plus one other of the same ilk & a defensive midfielder too, because Tom & Anderson aren't up to it.
As much as I love Giggsy, we cant rely on an almost 40yr old to bail us out this season. He cant play every game & should be kept on ice for the biggies, which today was in many respects, aswell as the Community Shield - given the importance to win those games for Moyesy's sake.
Yeah, there's something wrong alright man or maybe the Prem's got better from then. Maybe he's had no competition to push him also. With Kagawa preferred in a forward role, there's only Anderson & I wouldn't be keen on playin him ahead of Tom to be honest, regardless of how I feel about Tom not being up to it. Kagawa flew back from Japan on Thursday, so maybe he was jet-lagged or carryin a knock, so that's why he was on the subs bench too.
Midfielders get noticed if they have a scoring threat & if they lack that, then they get scrutinised about their other game. Carrick isnt a goal threat, but his all-round game is consistently superb (albeit today Carrick wasn't exceptional, but most of them weren't either) & has to be to carry the likes of Tom. Gary Neville could hit a ball better than Tom to be honest man & that's sayin something!
There's no doubt he hasn't been the same player since his injury. But there is no reason he can't turn it round though. He hasn't even started 30 league games for us. The injury knocked his confidence and doesn't look to be playing with the same verve now but what's to say that wont come back? He's definitely worth persisting with, who knows this might be the season that it all comes together for him.
Maybe. But I think he's been a completely different player since that shithead took him down from behind.
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