Tom Cleverley | 2012-14 Performances

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shivab said:
yes hes been bad last season, like all of our midfielders. so why single him out? if you take any of our CMs they would pale in comparison to the best in the world. that doesnt mean we sell them all. cleverley is still young and still has a lot to offer as a squad player. he can only imrpove under a coach like van gaal. the so called fans here need to learn how to be patient. we arent going to assemble a world XI overnight and we need squad players esp ones who are loyal to the club.
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I don't know how you can think song and illaramendi are not better than Cleverley, they have shown more at a higher level and they face much tougher competition to get into the team. Cleverley can't nail down a place when the competition is pretty poor, what chance would he have against xavi, busquets, modric,di Maria etc? And how ill he cope with more co petition at utd?

I am not singling him out but this is the Cleverley thread and he has disappointed for the majority of the appearances he has made in the first team, he has to prove he is good enough because he is lucky to still be in the squad. I think LVG will bring in another player who will be first choice with Herrera maybe even one more so it leaves carrick, fellaini, fletcher and Cleverley competing to be squad players so at least one has to go and over the next couple of seasons think all 4 should probably go.
 
Revan said:
Yes, and I think that they are both better than Cleverley.

I think that the ideal solution is to have Carrick, Herrera, new CM, a youngster (be it Pearson, Rothfuss or even Powell) and a squad player. For the last spot there are Cleverley, Fellaini and Fletcher but I don't think that neither of them is good enough for it. If Fletcher can go near the form and fitness he had before than he would have been excellent but if not, then for me it doesn't matter who get that post.

I also don't think that you should keep players in order for them to be squad players. FOr squad players the ideal solution IMO is to keep promising youngsters who have potential to become one day first team players. If Rothfuss, Pearson, Powell (and then Pereira) impress then better to give that post to them.
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well i dont think they are better than cleverley. in fact a lot of people are talking about mobility, and then talking about illaramnedi and song should know that these players are more immobile than cleverley.

we've always had a methodolgy of promoting youth. we dont do it ahead of time because we dont want them to burn out early in their careers. so when you mention pearson etc. i think you are getting ahead of yourself. Powell shouldnt even be at united next season, he should be on loan to a premier league team. the backup have to be fellaini and cleverley. we need a new CM but its to replace carrick who is 33. carrick, herrera, fellaini, cleverley and a new world class CM would be able to play 60 odd games together. we do not need to sell cleverley.
 
In Rainbows said:
The reason why people think Illaramendi and Song are better is because they have had a season in the past much better than anything Cleverley has produced. Yes they had bad seasons, but that doesn't change the fact they have done more than Cleverley.
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this is Illaramendis first season at a big club. he wasnt great at socieadad and hes been very very avg at madrid as well. they have overpaid for him, anyone who watches footbal knows this. song had one good season at arsenal after many average seasons and then got signed by barca where hes been very poor ever since. so when you say theyve had multiple good seasons i dont know what you are talking about.
 
shivab said:
well i dont think they are better than cleverley. in fact a lot of people are talking about mobility, and then talking about illaramnedi and song should know that these players are more immobile than cleverley.

we've always had a methodolgy of promoting youth. we dont do it ahead of time because we dont want them to burn out early in their careers. so when you mention pearson etc. i think you are getting ahead of yourself. Powell shouldnt even be at united next season, he should be on loan to a premier league team. the backup have to be fellaini and cleverley. we need a new CM but its to replace carrick who is 33. carrick, herrera, fellaini, cleverley and a new world class CM would be able to play 60 odd games together. we do not need to sell cleverley.
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We won't have 60 games next season, there will be 45 or so. So if we sign a midfielder (especially if it is a world class one that wants to start every game) I don't think that we need both of Fellaini and Cleverley. Would prefer to keep Cleverley instead of Fellaini but that isn't saying much.
 
Roboc7 said:
I don't know how you can think song and illaramendi are not better than Cleverley, they have shown more at a higher level and they face much tougher competition to get into the team. Cleverley can't nail down a place when the competition is pretty poor, what chance would he have against xavi, busquets, modric,di Maria etc? And how ill he cope with more co petition at utd?

I am not singling him out but this is the Cleverley thread and he has disappointed for the majority of the appearances he has made in the first team, he has to prove he is good enough because he is lucky to still be in the squad. I think LVG will bring in another player who will be first choice with Herrera maybe even one more so it leaves carrick, fellaini, fletcher and Cleverley competing to be squad players so at least one has to go and over the next couple of seasons think all 4 should probably go.
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these players play next to the best in the world and still look average. its not like cleverley plays next to them so they mke him look better than he is. he plays next to carrick who doesnt suit cleverleys style of play anyway. I think we should leave it to the new coach instead of making judgements according to our preconceived notions. cleverley isnt a world class player but hes a much better player than what we have seen lately.
 
shivab said:
this is Illaramendis first season at a big club. he wasnt great at socieadad and hes been very very avg at madrid as well. they have overpaid for him, anyone who watches footbal knows this. song had one good season at arsenal after many average seasons and then got signed by barca where hes been very poor ever since. so when you say theyve had multiple good seasons i dont know what you are talking about.
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Illarramendi didn't had a bad season IMO. He wasn't great but he was decent, what I think is a good enough backup. Obviously they overpayed for him, he is probably a 15m or so player. Song was poor at Barca, but everyone who isn't excellent at passing will look poor there.
 
shivab said:
this is Illaramendis first season at a big club. he wasnt great at socieadad and hes been very very avg at madrid as well. they have overpaid for him, anyone who watches footbal knows this. song had one good season at arsenal after many average seasons and then got signed by barca where hes been very poor ever since. so when you say theyve had multiple good seasons i dont know what you are talking about.
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Song less mobile than Cleverley, that must be a joke? Neither had a great season I agree but they would both be ahead of Cleverley if they were at utd and he would be in the b team at barca or real.
 
Revan said:
We won't have 60 games next season, there will be 45 or so. So if we sign a midfielder (especially if it is a world class one that wants to start every game) I don't think that we need both of Fellaini and Cleverley. Would prefer to keep Cleverley instead of Fellaini but that isn't saying much.
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off to watch the game...we still need cleverley for the next season espcially when it seems that LVG style of play would suit him more than carrick since hes more mobile than him. he isnt as bad as what ppl here are making him out to be and definitely needs more chances to prove himself. with the season we've had we cant make a definite judgement about most of our players since all of them were terrible. best is to wait and watch what the new coach does.
 
Roboc7 said:
Song less mobile than Cleverley, that must be a joke? Neither had a great season I agree but they would both be ahead of Cleverley if they were at utd and he would be in the b team at barca or real.
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its not a joke. maybe u shud watch him play for barca
 
Roboc7 said:
Song less mobile than Cleverley, that must be a joke? Neither had a great season I agree but they would both be ahead of Cleverley if they were at utd and he would be in the b team at barca or real.
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Cleverley isn't technically good enough to be in the B team for those clubs either.
 
Roboc7 said:
Fact you think that just backs up my argument and shows how blinkered you are in regards to Cleverley.
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or maybe it shows that you havent watched him play and are just biased. cleverley will be at the club for this season at least and i dont think you're lopsided view is going to change that.
 
Saying Cleverley is not mobile is a new low for this thread.

Everything about his game screams mobility. His first instinct after he passes the ball is move and he does that better than anyone in our squad. Darron Gibson lacked mobility not Tom Cleverley.
 
shivab said:
or maybe it shows that you havent watched him play and are just biased. cleverley will be at the club for this season at least and i dont think you're lopsided view is going to change that.
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I think most people who have watched Cleverley play will be underwhelmed and would agree he is at best average in a utd shirt, he has benefitted from a weak midfield because with more competition he won't get a look in unless he improves dramatically.

If Cleverley starts playing well you will have a point but until then you need to accept he has not been good enough and his performances back my argument. He might last another season but see him ending up as a squad player at Everton or playing regularly at a team like villa or Sunderland perhaps.
 
shivab said:
this is Illaramendis first season at a big club. he wasnt great at socieadad and hes been very very avg at madrid as well. they have overpaid for him, anyone who watches footbal knows this. song had one good season at arsenal after many average seasons and then got signed by barca where hes been very poor ever since. so when you say theyve had multiple good seasons i dont know what you are talking about.
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He helped Sociedad get into the CL with his performances, and his absence showed how key he was in the start of last season. He's also labeled as the heir to Xabi in Spain. You must be joking if you don't think his season wasn't better than any of Cleverley's. The fact that Cleverley hasn't done better than Song or Illaramendi speaks volumes on how bad Cleverley has been because those two are certainly not world class, nor have they approached world class.

You're right that he wasn't good last season. Illaramendi suffered from having much better competition in front of him, and he at times played with Xabi which made his role redundant.
 
Illaramendi is a defensive mid cleverley is not. so to compare the two was anyway a bad idea (initiated by someone at some point in this thread). He has been underwhelming in his first season with Real and theres no doubt about it. He might be the heir to Alonso but hes nowhere near that quality, it must be their common history of playing for scoiedad that hev forced the comparison. Cleverley and none of united's central mids have done themselves justice last season. so if you compare carrick or fletcher or fellaini to song and illaramendi you will get the same response. it says a lot about our TEAM and their performance not just one player.

Cleverley like Illaramendi should be a squad player. thats his level. but cleverley also needs to play along side quality players to show his own quality. i think he deserves more chances and in a better midfield set up, even if its as a back up/bench player.
 
mic.m said:
Michael Carrick has a great passing range and his positioning is excellent which makes up for his lack of mobility.
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What on earth are you on about? Passing range makes up for lack of mobility?...
OneUnited24 said:
Exactly and i still believe putting Cleverley in a midfield 3 would really bring the best out of him - hell if you even put him in a two with another box to boxer i think that could work too, just not someone who sits really deep
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Moyes fell into the trap of thinking that Carrick had any dynamism to his game. Because Carrick is a senior player and experienced he was expected to be the one to be called upon to do the business. I don't think in the last few seasons that Carrick has had a better than solid game against a big team or a team with fast pressing midfielders. Moyes got Carrick's role completely wrong. Played him in an uncomfortable deep sweeping midfield role and paid the price when Cleverley/Fellaini/Fletch didn't have the defensive ability to compliment that. Play Carrick further forward in front of the defense and he's a totally different player. Able to pull strings and leaving more room for his CB's to defend for him.

It's not the player, it's the way he plays. He just doesn't show for an outlet pass after he's distributed the ball. It's just the way he's always been. If you put a player next to Cleverley who passes, moves and then shows for the outlet pass then you'll instantly see a dramatic increase in his ability. Hence why people keep saying that he played well with Anderson and this season with Jones. It's not something to be dismissed because it labelled effectively the context to which his game is viable.

But nah, "That was years ago m8! He's rubbish now!"
 
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Roboc7 said:
I think most people who have watched Cleverley play will be underwhelmed and would agree he is at best average in a utd shirt, he has benefitted from a weak midfield because with more competition he won't get a look in unless he improves dramatically.

If Cleverley starts playing well you will have a point but until then you need to accept he has not been good enough and his performances back my argument. He might last another season but see him ending up as a squad player at Everton or playing regularly at a team like villa or Sunderland perhaps.
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At his best, he and Carrick bossed the City's midfield that had Yaya, Barry and Silva in it. Cleverley is a smart and technical player which I think is suitable in 3 CM system.
 
When you look at what Winaldum is doing as a CM for LVG right now, you can see easily see Cleverley excelling in a similar role, although Herrera will be first in line for the 8 position here.

The dude slagging off Illaramendi is an idiot. He wasn't great for Madrid this year, but in 3 years we'll have wish we paid 30 million for him before Madrid. He's really clever, moves well, has a nice range of passing and is alright defensively. I think he'll become a better version of Carrick.
 
NoPace said:
When you look at what Winaldum is doing as a CM for LVG right now, you can see easily see Cleverley excelling in a similar role, although Herrera will be first in line for the 8 position here.
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I agree. Herrera comes in as first choice in that role no doubt but Cleverley is a more than adequate back up. No reason why he can't play a role in a 3 man midfield over the season.
 
Isotope said:
At his best, he and Carrick bossed the City's midfield that had Yaya, Barry and Silva in it. Cleverley is a smart and technical player which I think is suitable in 3 CM system.
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I am not arguing about the type of player he is but simply that he is not good enough, I said he lacks mobility and his passing range isn’t good enough because in comparison to other players at this level it isn’t. Put him in a side lower down the league and his mobility and passing range won’t be a problem but at Utd it is and he is exposed as a weak link on a regular basis (he isn’t the only one of course). He looked at his best when he first came into the team, which young players often do but I think he has been found out now and teams know that if they put pressure on him he lacks the ability to deal with it.

He is an academy player and I wanted him to be given a chance but how many good games has he actually had? A few with Anderson which were decent but nothing special and a few others here and there but that’s it. Any player can look good on odd occasions or for short spells what sets players apart is performing consistently at a high level and that is something he has never done and he is nearly 25.
 
Bwuk said:
This season will be do or die time for Cleverley.
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agreed, if he doesn't perform this season then we should sell him, he's shown some good potential at times but he's not that young anymore and he can't have games where he does very little or misplaces a lot of passes if he want's to be in our midfield.
 
Eric'sCollar said:
I agree. Herrera comes in as first choice in that role no doubt but Cleverley is a more than adequate back up. No reason why he can't play a role in a 3 man midfield over the season.
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Currently, I don't think that he's an adequate backup at all. Adequate means acceptable, which is not a word that I'd associate with Cleverly's performances of late.
 
LoiusVanGaal said:
agreed, if he doesn't perform this season then we should sell him, he's shown some good potential at times but he's not that young anymore and he can't have games where he does very little or misplaces a lot of passes if he want's to be in our midfield.
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It's not even that. Cleverley I'd argue is one of our most technically proficient footballers.

He just lacks bottle completely. His control of the ball is great.
 
Shark said:
Currently, I don't think that he's an adequate backup at all. Adequate means acceptable, which is not a word that I'd associate with Cleverly's performances of late.
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Many had very poor seasons last season. He was a player coming along nicely under Ferguson and was completley shot under Moyes. I think given his status, he is worth a spot in the squad under van Gaal fr this season.
 
Great bump that, mate, really worthwhile.

It's Nathan Cleverly, the Welsh boxer.
 
m1y2 said:
"Cleverley is 'a plastic champ'"
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we bought one box to box already, more attacking herrera, di maria is even worse defensively definitely so im not sure if it worked out for us but certainly we wouldnt suffer from legs in midfield, maybe we could press much more.. anyway di maria is real quality of Manutd standart


That was your post yesterday on Di Maria.:lol:
 
Becknaldolencia said:
we bought one box to box already, more attacking herrera, di maria is even worse defensively definitely so im not sure if it worked out for us but certainly we wouldnt suffer from legs in midfield, maybe we could press much more.. anyway di maria is real quality of Manutd standart


That was your post yesterday on Di Maria.:lol:
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yeah, what does it have to do with cleverley?
 
Becknaldolencia said:
Your understanding of a box to box midfielder.
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but its a cleverley thread innit?

I didn´t answer because I thought it wasn't worthy. Yes di María is a winger I know the difference between box to box and winger, I played box to box player myself. Haven't watched the thread from the bigenning but somehow meda up idea that people on caf would like to see him in a more central role which he played for real and was brilliant there lately and which is still our no1 problem.. we can always "cover" wings with Welbeck, Januzaj, Valencia, Mata, Rooney, Zaha, Lingard - not great standards for manutd wingplay I know but still better than carrick, fletcher, fellaini, cleverley in CM which is arguably the most important spot in the team and play-style decider position.. so that's why I reacted ike I reacted .-)
 
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These are the kind of balls I want to see Cleverley playing, because he has it in his locker, but never has the confidence to try anything out of the ordinary, unfortunately.
 
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