Tom Cleverley | 2012-14 Performances

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JefferiesTube said:
“I watch Spanish football a lot,” Cleverley says. “If they pass the ball sideways but keep possession, the fans clap them.

“Their attitude is that as long as you have got the ball, the other team can’t hurt you.

“I know the mentality is different here and that is what makes our game the best in the world because it is so intense.

“But sometimes I have got to not listen and play my game because I feel I’m doing the best thing for the team.”


If you have the ball, the opposition cannot hurt you, that is true. What is also true is that if you have possession of the ball but do nothing with it, you are not hurting the opposition either. Simply having possession of the ball is not enough. The Spanish players keep possession and whilst in possession they are creative and hurt the opposition by having possession. Cleverley can keep possession by passing backwards and sideways but he doesn't hurt the opposition, he doesn't do anything productive with the possession. That is the massive difference. Cleverley believes that simply keeping possession is doing a good job for the team. He needs to change his mentality and want to do MORE for the team. "keeping possession" is not good enough. He should want to hurt the opposition as much as possible
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In a team without much movement, huge distances between teammates, and a single, simple approach to the attacks, what can Cleverley do to hurt the opposition?

In a static, rigid 4-4-2 that we played under Moyes, all Cleverley could do was play a long pass out wide or forward to try to hurt the opposition. Carrying the ball doesn't work because no one comes near for the link-ups. Any time a midfielder received the ball, our forwards just went as far ahead as possible, and our wide men went as wide as they could. Most midfielders wouldn't do well in this setup as the movement's almost nonexistent.

Cleverley's approach and style doesn't work at all in a rigid, static setup. In Sir Alex's last season, there was at least some movement in our team, and players made themselves available in some way. Plus, Cleverley was key to us keeping the ball in midfield at that time as he always made himself available for the ball. Under Moyes, players were too static, which was why Cleverley wasn't that good. Even Mata wasn't that good in his first couple of games as we were set up too rigidly for him.
 
He deserves a clean slate like everyone else after last year. No one could excel in Moyes' system apart from our goalkeeper, says a lot. A man of Van Gaal's experience will be far quicker to recognise talent when he sees it and implement a plan to get the best out of the players.
 
Keenst said:
He deserves a clean slate like everyone else after last year. No one could excel in Moyes' system apart from our goalkeeper, says a lot. A man of Van Gaal's experience will be far quicker to recognise talent when he sees it and implement a plan to get the best out of the players.
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Moyes came in and gave everyone a clean slate! Anderson Cleverley Nani Young Valencia Butner I hope LVG with the advice of Giggs learns from this and gets rid of the deadwood above except from Valencia. Fletcher and Hernandez for different reasons can also be added to that list.
 
Lawman said:
Moyes came in and gave everyone a clean slate! Anderson Cleverley Nani Young Valencia Butner I hope LVG with the advice of Giggs learns from this and gets rid of the deadwood above except from Valencia. Fletcher and Hernandez for different reasons can also be added to that list.
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Moyes did give everyone a clean slate but the difference is he couldn't figure out who to play and in what system in all his time here. How many different starting 11s did we see in a row? It was absurd, he actually hadn't a clue what he was doing.

I'd imagine after the pre season sessions (or before) LVG will have a clear picture in his head of who is and is not up to it and whether or not they'll be able to contribute to the type of football he wants played. I'd say he could bring out the best in Cleverley, all though I do think he'll only ever be a squad player at best for us.
 
He is trending right now on Twitter but rather tragically it's the wrong spelling of his name
 
He was decent in safs last season, dire last season, deserves a chance under lvg although not as first choice IMO
 
Sparky_Hughes said:
He was decent in safs last season, dire last season, deserves a chance under lvg although not as first choice IMO
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He wasn't even dire. He played well for us during December but got way over used in that month and his form dipped as he got fatigued. You can't expect a player to have barely played to come into the team and play 10 odd games in a row within a short space of time.

The blame should be at Daves door for continually picking the guy despite looking exhausted 15mins into a game.
 
RedSky said:
He wasn't even dire. He played well for us during December but got way over used in that month and his form dipped as he got fatigued. You can't expect a player to have barely played to come into the team and play 10 odd games in a row within a short space of time.

The blame should be at Daves door for continually picking the guy despite looking exhausted 15mins into a game.
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I'm struggling to remember anything impressive about him last season, but to be fair that May be entirely down to me wanting to block the whole nightmare season out :)
 
He was poor, but showed an improvement to the defensive side of his game. Still well behind the other midfielders at other clubs doing the same job.
 
I'd like to see him leave. I don't even think he was very good in SAF's last season, lower end of average I'd say. A passenger who contributed very little, luckily for him the team was winning so he got away with it.
 
The media treatment of Tom Cleverley is absolutely embarrassing. He should completely boycott these media outlets.

I can't wait for van Gaal to address these journalists. Absolutely embarrassing stuff this last season from the media. The sad thing is it clouded the opinions of our own fans too.
 
soap said:
I'd like to see him leave. I don't even think he was very good in SAF's last season, lower end of average I'd say. A passenger who contributed very little, luckily for him the team was winning so he got away with it.
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For those who believe he wasn't good in Fergies' last season.
As of April 2013, he was the player with highest win percentage(87%) when he started for his club in the history of Premier League according to OPTA.

Link: http://m.worldsoccertalk.com/worlds...a27f5d9d0fc0cde/media/3,bestwinpercentagesepl
 
Becknaldolencia said:
The media treatment of Tom Cleverley is absolutely embarrassing. He should completely boycott these media outlets.

I can't wait for van Gaal to address these journalists. Absolutely embarrassing stuff this last season from the media. The sad thing is it clouded the opinions of our own fans too.
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Why would the media give a shit about Tom Cleverley? The reason he gets criticised is because he was rubbish last season and has so far shown very little to suggest he has the talent to be an important player for United or England. If that changes then the reaction to him will change but I really wouldn't be fussed if he left. To me he's just another example of why this team has regressed from pretty much the best in Europe to a side that isn't one of the top 4 in a poorer Premier League over the last 4 or 5 years.
 
RORY65 said:
Why would the media give a shit about Tom Cleverley? The reason he gets criticised is because he was rubbish last season and has so far shown very little to suggest he has the talent to be an important player for United or England. If that changes then the reaction to him will change but I really wouldn't be fussed if he left. To me he's just another example of why this team has regressed from pretty much the best in Europe to a side that isn't one of the top 4 in a poorer Premier League over the last 4 or 5 years.
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Wasn't Kagawa rubbish last season? add Carrick and few others to that list.

The article posted above about arsenal fans taking it to twitter, absolutely no need to report that thing in the media at all. Twitter has always been and will always be full of attention seeking teenagers.

There was no need to make the fuss out of that petition thing too which media did sadly. He hasn't been as poor as some of the other players still playing at the top teams have been over the years. I can't stand the media picking one of our players and treating him like crap every week.
 
I don't think us giving Arsenal Cleverley benefits any party involved.
 
Becknaldolencia said:
Wasn't Kagawa rubbish last season? add Carrick and few others to that list.

The article posted above about arsenal fans taking it to twitter, absolutely no need to report that thing in the media at all. Twitter has always been and will always be full of attention seeking teenagers.

There was no need to make the fuss out of that petition thing too which media did sadly. He hasn't been as poor as some of the other players still playing at the top teams have been over the years. I can't stand the media picking one of our players and treating him like crap every week.
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Carrick and Kagawa were pretty bad too albeit not quite as bad and there's more evidence in their careers that they could be better. Your point is fair but it's because he's at United and thus had the profile to get in the England team. If he'd been at Villa he'd probably never have played internationally and the reaction to rumours linking him to Arsenal would be of bemusement but with less hostility.
 
RORY65 said:
Carrick and Kagawa were pretty bad too albeit not quite as bad and there's more evidence in their careers that they could be better. Your point is fair but it's because he's at United and thus had the profile to get in the England team. If he'd been at Villa he'd probably never have played internationally and the reaction to rumours linking him to Arsenal would be of bemusement but with less hostility.
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Glen Johnson was linked with Real Madrid by a good number of papers in March but where was the hostility then?

Cleverley had a good season under Fergie the season before last and the one before that before getting injured. He deserves a chance atleast.
 
He has ability, but he is low on confidence and he doesn't have any direction in terms of his role on the pitch. Under the right manager (Wenger/LVG) he could be a good player.
 
Assuming that van Gaal plans to play a 4-3-3 formation I think we'll see Cleverley play as the middle man in the middle 3, with a defensive minded player behind him and someone like Kagawa or Mata as the most attacking player of the three, and I really think he'll thrive.
 
Sparky_Hughes said:
I'm struggling to remember anything impressive about him last season, but to be fair that May be entirely down to me wanting to block the whole nightmare season out :)
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From memory, the Caf continually moaned that he wasn't passing the ball forward enough. Despite us now knowing that it was Daves tactics telling our CM's to pass the ball wide. Which is exactly what I said at the time, but everyone kept moaning about his lack of balls, despite him doing exactly what the manager wanted...

He was decent until the end of December/January when he started to get fatigued due to Dave using him was too much. I seem to recall we had a few injuries around that time.
 
City away 2 seasons ago he was excellent. That season he was very good and gave us all hope. He has regressed since then but let's hope it was down to the moyes factor.
 
Becknaldolencia said:
For those who believe he wasn't good in Fergies' last season.
As of April 2013, he was the player with highest win percentage(87%) when he started for his club in the history of Premier League according to OPTA.

Link: http://m.worldsoccertalk.com/worlds...a27f5d9d0fc0cde/media/3,bestwinpercentagesepl
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I watched him play in every game and he was not impressive at all, stats like this don't prove anything really. Like I said he was pretty much definition of passenger - if you wanna use stats then his assist/goals/key passes should be considered too I think. He was much better then than last season though aye.
 
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I'd be pissed off if we sold him to Arsenal. Hope those Arsenal twitter twats trying to convince Wenger not to sign him get what they want.
 
I suspect that Cleverley is one of the players that will flourish under LVG. He would do well in a midfield three in a 4-3-3 as well.
 
RedSky said:
From memory, the Caf continually moaned that he wasn't passing the ball forward enough. Despite us now knowing that it was Daves tactics telling our CM's to pass the ball wide. Which is exactly what I said at the time, but everyone kept moaning about his lack of balls, despite him doing exactly what the manager wanted...

He was decent until the end of December/January when he started to get fatigued due to Dave using him was too much. I seem to recall we had a few injuries around that time.
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I'll take your word for it . I know I moaned like hell about him but I'd have quite cheerfully sold everybody and shot the manager last season
 
RedDevilCanuck said:
City away 2 seasons ago he was excellent. That season he was very good and gave us all hope. He has regressed since then but let's hope it was down to the moyes factor.
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Agree with this really. He isn't poor, but there is no denying that he was poor last season. As you say here, in 2012/13 I thought he was playing pretty well, certainly well enough to give us hope that there are foundations there to work with. With Carrick controlling things from deep he was allowed to get forward a bit more and influence things higher up the pitch. I don't see him as someone who will sit deep and control the tempo of a game. I see him as a player who needs to be given that licence to get forward a bit more and link up in more advanced areas.

I hope he kicks on next season, I really do. The celebrations at Villa Park when he scored last season were brilliant. Give the lad the freedom to get forward and play that high tempo game he appears to enjoy and I'm sure we'll see a decent player.
 
RedSky said:
He wasn't even dire. He played well for us during December but got way over used in that month and his form dipped as he got fatigued. You can't expect a player to have barely played to come into the team and play 10 odd games in a row within a short space of time.

The blame should be at Daves door for continually picking the guy despite looking exhausted 15mins into a game.
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The blame lies with Cleverley being poor no one else. He was worse than Young last season and that takes some doing.
 
saivet said:
I don't think us giving Arsenal Cleverley benefits any party involved.
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I think it benefits us two ways :

1) We have more space and need to bring in a quality midfielder, something we've been suspisciously relucatant to do.

2) Arsenal bring an average midfielder in, instead of adding real quality
 
Becknaldolencia said:
For those who believe he wasn't good in Fergies' last season.
As of April 2013, he was the player with highest win percentage(87%) when he started for his club in the history of Premier League according to OPTA.

Link: http://m.worldsoccertalk.com/worlds...a27f5d9d0fc0cde/media/3,bestwinpercentagesepl
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Its widely accepted that winning the league that season was Sir Alex's biggest triumph and I'm not sure anyone is a better example of that than Cleverley. Yes we did really well with him in the team, that doesn't mean he's a very good player. It means he didnt get in the way so much that we couldnt be successful. Carrick was very good and Cleverley didnt get in the way of that.
 
Lawman said:
The blame lies with Cleverley being poor no one else. He was worse than Young last season and that takes some doing.
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Well that in my opinion is scapegoating bollocks. He was overused during the Christmas Period and was barely seen after the Sunderland game. We all agree that the start of the season was better than the end of the season and Tom played regular football at the start of the Season. This is the breakdown of his Christmas Schedule:

7/8 PL Games: 603mins out of 720mins.
1/1 CL Game: 27mins out of 90mins.
1/1 FA Cup Game: 90mins out of 90mins.
2/2 League Cup Games: 164mins out of 180mins.

So in a Month of football he played 11 games, playing 884mins out of 1080mins. That's too much football, his last 3 games in that run were all loses and I remember in particular the Sunderland game he was awful. He looked exhausted after 15mins and pretty much everyone said he should have not played. It was bad squad rotation, by a manager who was useless at squad rotation. He did precisely the same thing to Januzaj at the same period and he was exhausted in the Sunderland game too. Both disappeared from match lineups after that game.

The majority of the complaints against Tom last season was his lack of balls and attacking football. Well we know that all our CM's were being restricted attacking wise down to Dave and his "tactics". They were told to pass the ball wide rather than going forward. I do agree that he lacks the ability to insert himself in a game of football, but he's not a bad player by any means and has all of the ability to become a very good midfielder (which Van Gaal imo will recognise).
 
I don't think he's as bad as people make him out to be, he's a good player and I like him, I think there's something that can be squeezed out of him.
 
Clevz is good enough to be a squad man for us to deal with minor opponents, but we need to reach far above his level to get the squad into proper shape.
 
I've made some pretty bold statements in this thread, but watch 2 years from now and the Euro midfield partnership will be Cleverley and Henderson.
 
RedSky said:
Well that in my opinion is scapegoating bollocks. He was overused during the Christmas Period and was barely seen after the Sunderland game. We all agree that the start of the season was better than the end of the season and Tom played regular football at the start of the Season. This is the breakdown of his Christmas Schedule:

7/8 PL Games: 603mins out of 720mins.
1/1 CL Game: 27mins out of 90mins.
1/1 FA Cup Game: 90mins out of 90mins.
2/2 League Cup Games: 164mins out of 180mins.

So in a Month of football he played 11 games, playing 884mins out of 1080mins. That's too much football, his last 3 games in that run were all loses and I remember in particular the Sunderland game he was awful. He looked exhausted after 15mins and pretty much everyone said he should have not played. It was bad squad rotation, by a manager who was useless at squad rotation. He did precisely the same thing to Januzaj at the same period and he was exhausted in the Sunderland game too. Both disappeared from match lineups after that game.

The majority of the complaints against Tom last season was his lack of balls and attacking football. Well we know that all our CM's were being restricted attacking wise down to Dave and his "tactics". They were told to pass the ball wide rather than going forward. I do agree that he lacks the ability to insert himself in a game of football, but he's not a bad player by any means and has all of the ability to become a very good midfielder (which Van Gaal imo will recognise).
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Open your eyes he's an average footballer who is struggling to make it here.
 
He's had a difficult couple of seasons. His first year through and I thought he looked very good. Then his second year under Fergie he struggled somewhat and was hit and miss. Second season syndrome maybe. Growing pains. Last year he was abject under Moyes but the whole team was. I am more than willing to give him a pass for that.

When he and Welbeck broke through together, I thought they linked up very well indeed. Quick passing and movement. That linkage was broken with the signing of Van Persie (which I am not lamenting). But I saw enough from him to know that he has a good level of talent and is a very tidy player with quick feet. I am excited to see how he develops under Van Gaal's tutelage. I hope he is a part of our squad next year. I think he has the right attitude and has had to shoulder far too much abuse from the "fans". Just like Fletcher had to do.
 
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