Tom Cleverley | 2012-14 Performances

Status
Not open for further replies.
marjen said:
It's simple.

He moved up and down the pitch. Passed the ball, at times forward, without dallying. And moved again.
Click to expand...


This.

Say what you want, but he added mobility and helped United up the tempo. For me, he's played his way into the starting line up with his cameo today. It says something about the sad state of our midfield that a performance in such circumstances catapults you back into first choice contention.
 
pocco said:
Yeah, that and the fact that City had completely sat back, preserving themselves for their next game. He wouldn't have fared much better if he'd have started, I don't think.
Click to expand...

Did fine last season at the Etihad when we took a positive approach and actually came away with the 3 points.
 
Drainy said:
probably the best thing to happen for Cleverley's stock to rise would be for us to sign a new midfielder and them keep him out of the team for a bit. 15 minutes of us not having the ball with the other team looking dominant and whoever the next scapegoat is will get the blame.
Click to expand...


Terrible fixture and result for it to happen in, but it's already starting to happen a bit
 
When people are moaning about how slowly we play and a lack of movement, its obvious Cleverley will crop up because he increases our tempo, passes the ball quickly and immediately moves into space ready to receive it back again so his teammates don't have to stand still for ages wondering who to pass to.
 
LR7 said:
When people are moaning about how slowly we play and a lack of movement, its obvious Cleverley will crop up because he increases our tempo, passes the ball quickly and immediately moves into space ready to receive it back again so his teammates don't have to stand still for ages wondering who to pass to.
Click to expand...

We'll need to adress the winger issue of we want rid of our static attacking play.

He's not an ideal solution, but he's the most suited for us at the time being since we've chosen to ignore our needs in CM in yet another transfer window.
 
marjen said:
We'll need to adress the winger issue of we want rid of our static attacking play.
Click to expand...

The wingers are used to balls being pinged out to them in space, by Scholesy. We lack that a bit imo.
But regardless I don't think Young is good enough, and wouldn't be surprised if Valencia (and a few others) were tired today after playing continuous games. We need to utilise the squad.
 
Some decisions were quite baffling today (like neither Nani or Kagawa playing), but I don't think anyone would have started Cleverley for this. Looking back, you can say it probably would've been better had he started over Fellaini. We had a similar lineup last season away to City, but with Cleverley there (and obviously Van persie and Rafael who were huge losses) and I remember Cleverley had a great game. He'll definitely play against Liverpool because I think Fellaini is cup tied, so that's a good thing. Hope he takes his chance.
We still need to buy a proper playmaker in the middle though, which would probably lessen Cleverley's chances but it has to be done.
 
From what we saw of Cleverley today and his last sub outing he's really starting to show us the Cleverley that we know he's capable of being. I've been saying since last season for Cleverley to be effective he has to really display his confidence and be the go to guy, the man that makes things happen.

He's able to be that man if he improves on today and not play so safe as he's been doing for quite some time. No more of this continued sideways/backwards passing that he's grown accustomed to, he needs to be more of a risk taker and play football like he's capable. Hopefully this spell on the sidelines has given him the kick up the backside he's needed.
 
Genius Me! said:
From what we saw of Cleverley today and his last sub outing he's really starting to show us the Cleverley that we know he's capable of being. I've been saying since last season for Cleverley to be effective he has to really display his confidence and be the go to guy, the man that makes things happen.

He's able to be that man if he improves on today and not play so safe as he's been doing for quite some time. No more of this continued sideways/backwards passing that he's grown accustomed to, he needs to be more of a risk taker and play football like he's capable. Hopefully this spell on the sidelines has given him the kick up the backside he's needed.
Click to expand...

I think the arrive of Fellaini will boost Tom into this next level. He will work hard to get his spot back on the team.

Also, if we could play the diamond midfield more often would be great for Tom.
 
Devil may care said:
Hard to really judge because City were on autopilot by the time he came on as the game was won.
Click to expand...


That hasn't stopped our other players to continue playing like they were before "City turning to autopilot".
 
Feed Me said:
This.

Say what you want, but he added mobility and helped United up the tempo. For me, he's played his way into the starting line up with his cameo today. It says something about the sad state of our midfield that a performance in such circumstances catapults you back into first choice contention.
Click to expand...

I've seen performances off him where he deserves to be catapulted right out the team for ever.
 
Amar__ said:
That hasn't stopped our other players to continue playing like they were before "City turning to autopilot".
Click to expand...

The rest of our team bar Rooney continuing to play shit really doesn't come into it, being better than a bunch of players who are having some of the worst performances they are likely to have in a United shirt doesn't alter the fact Cleverley is getting praise for adding a big of urgency in a game against a team who'd took their foot off the gas before he even came on, as if he should suddenly leapfrog the two CM's we started with.
 
Devil may care said:
The rest of our team bar Rooney continuing to play shit really doesn't come into it, being better than a bunch of players who are having some of the worst performances they are likely to have in a United shirt doesn't alter the fact Cleverley is getting praise for adding a big of urgency in a game against a team who'd took their foot off the gas before he even came on, as if he should suddenly leapfrog the two CM's we started with.
Click to expand...


Yes, it actually does, since no one would expect from such a young player to become best player by mile after being introduced in second half. He was much better than any of our player(except Rooney) in last 30 minutes, and you cannot take away that from him.
 
Amar__ said:
Yes, it actually does, since no one would expect from such a young player to become best player by mile after being introduced in second half. He was much better than any of our player(except Rooney) in last 30 minutes, and you cannot take away that from him.
Click to expand...

So after 2 games we should take our £27M CM and drop him or drop our best CM of the last 2 seasons, because a fresh Cleverley came on and played reasonably well for 30 minutes against a team that had already shut down? I'm not taking anything away from him but a bit of perspective when it comes to the context of the performance wouldn't hurt.
 
Devil may care said:
So after 2 games we should take our £27M CM and drop him or drop our best CM of the last 2 seasons, because a fresh Cleverley came on and played reasonably well for 30 minutes against a team that had already shut down? I'm not taking anything away from him but a bit of perspective when it comes to the context of the performance wouldn't hurt.
Click to expand...
So we're going to start fellaini because of how much we paid for him? That was the problem with his price tag. He should never have been anything more than a rotation option like cleverley is as you can't really say he's better then cleverley as a central midfielder.
 
bosnian_red said:
So we're going to start fellaini because of how much we paid for him? That was the problem with his price tag. He should never have been anything more than a rotation option like cleverley is as you can't really say he's better then cleverley as a central midfielder.
Click to expand...

He is better than Cleverley at the moment. Cleverley has a lot of improving to do if he wants to ever nail down a first team spot here. I think todays performance is making you forget this.
 
pocco said:
He is better than Cleverley at the moment. Cleverley has a lot of improving to do if he wants to ever nail down a first team spot here. I think todays performance is making you forget this.
Click to expand...
Not really. I don't think cleverley can ever become a starter for united, but I don't think fellaini is good enough for that either. Never rated him and didn't want us to sign him.
 
Devil may care said:
So after 2 games we should take our £27M CM and drop him or drop our best CM of the last 2 seasons, because a fresh Cleverley came on and played reasonably well for 30 minutes against a team that had already shut down? I'm not taking anything away from him but a bit of perspective when it comes to the context of the performance wouldn't hurt.
Click to expand...

Who said anything about dropping Fellaini, I just stated that Cleverley played really good in last 30 minutes. :wenger:


pocco said:
I remember him really struggling against Yaya at times in the past. Besides, today was a different game and City played really well. He wouldn't have made a difference as our midfield was starved of the ball anyway.
Click to expand...

He played just two times against City, first time in Community Shield where he was introduced in second half and dominated City's midfield in second half turning the game in our favour, and second time was his first start against City in league game at Etihad, where we also won, and he had a very good game.
 
bosnian_red said:
So we're going to start fellaini because of how much we paid for him? That was the problem with his price tag. He should never have been anything more than a rotation option like cleverley is as you can't really say he's better then cleverley as a central midfielder.
Click to expand...

There were few on here more against the Fellaini signing than I was, I stated numerous times that I didn't see him as an upgrade on Cleverley, but yes, because we paid such a ridiculous fee for him I think we have to give him at least half a dozen starts before we drop him.

Amar__ said:
Who said anything about dropping Fellaini, I just stated that Cleverley played really good in last 30 minutes. :wenger:
Click to expand...

And I'm saying that it was against a team that had switched off and it's getting blown out of proportion.
 
Freak said:
The reason why he was good when he came on was because he passed and moved quickly, something that no one else bar Rooney was doing. Everyone else were just standing around like bloody zombies.
Click to expand...

This is an overlooked part of Cleverley's game. We are crying out or good movement from our players and that is Cleverley's strength. He gives us a good tempo which then makes it harder for the opposition to bully us off the ball because it's being released too quickly. When we're sluggishly dawdling on the ball for ages looking for a pass, then turning and looking elsewhere its easy to be robbed of the ball.
 
I thought he was good when he came one, one of the few players that seemed to actually move about in midfield. Carrick and Fellaini are a fairly stationary partnership, and cleverley added some much needed movement to the center of the park. Based on today I think he should start against liverpool at least.
 
NoArroJusBeta said:
I've seen performances off him where he deserves to be catapulted right out the team for ever.
Click to expand...


You could say that about every United midfielder, even Carrick.

We need to call it as it is - Cleverley came on yesterday and gave United mobility and a greater tempo. It was only one game, but he looked a better option for us than Fellaini. It's up to Fellaini to prove himself, as far as I'm concerned.
 
Im not convinced that Cleverly was that good a substitution. I think we have better options, perhaps we set our stall out in a particular way and we were afraid to change it up.
 
I think yesterday's performance is being blown slightly out of proportion. Yes, Cleverley was good, but to be honest, City didn't look too bothered at that stage as they knew well the game was well and truly over. Nevertheless, he was good when he came on and I'm hoping that Fellaini's arrival will give him the kick up the arse that he has badly needed for a long time. He has put in plenty of mediocre / poor performances over the past 12 months and has still been nearly always guaranteed to be a starter. Lack of competition is detrimental to players as some clearly don't feel they need to step-it-up if they are guaranteed games, no matter what.

Cleverley was good yesterday and was good / very good against Chelsea, but he badly needs to show that kind of form on a far more regular basis.
 
Devil may care said:
There were few on here more against the Fellaini signing than I was, I stated numerous times that I didn't see him as an upgrade on Cleverley, but yes, because we paid such a ridiculous fee for him I think we have to give him at least half a dozen starts before we drop him.



And I'm saying that it was against a team that had switched off and it's getting blown out of proportion.
Click to expand...

And I already beat that argument, so please don't quote me anymore if you're gonna repeat the same things.
 
Am I crazy for wanting to see Anderson and Cleverley behind Kagawa against Liverpool, with Nani on the left wing and Valencia on the right and Rooney as number ten? Imagine how mobile and quick movements we could get. All players are also very good at short passing and finding space (arguably bar Valencia who is still a decent passer and good at getting into positions due to his insane pace).

I thought Cleverley looked quite good yesterday, but I found it utterly bizarre that Kagawa didn't feature.
 
Rossa said:
Am I crazy for wanting to see Anderson and Cleverley behind Kagawa against Liverpool, with Nani on the left wing and Valencia on the right and Rooney as number ten? Imagine how mobile and quick movements we could get. All players are also very good at short passing and finding space (arguably bar Valencia who is still a decent passer and good at getting into positions due to his insane pace).

I thought Cleverley looked quite good yesterday, but I found it utterly bizarre that Kagawa didn't feature.
Click to expand...

4-6-0 ?
 
Rossa said:
Am I crazy for wanting to see Anderson and Cleverley behind Kagawa against Liverpool, with Nani on the left wing and Valencia on the right and Rooney as number ten? Imagine how mobile and quick movements we could get. All players are also very good at short passing and finding space (arguably bar Valencia who is still a decent passer and good at getting into positions due to his insane pace).

I thought Cleverley looked quite good yesterday, but I found it utterly bizarre that Kagawa didn't feature.
Click to expand...
I like seeing Anderson and Cleverley too. However, I don't know if Kagawa sitting in front of them would be ideal. Maybe on the left but not involved in that '3'. Going forward it would be great but I think it would leave a lot of space. I remember when Cleverley and Ando had that run of game, going forward they were great but teams just cruised through the middle.
 
Eric'sCollar said:
I like seeing Anderson and Cleverley too. However, I don't know if Kagawa sitting in front of them would be ideal. Maybe on the left but not involved in that '3'. Going forward it would be great but I think it would leave a lot of space. I remember when Cleverley and Ando had that run of game, going forward they were great but teams just cruised through the middle.
Click to expand...


That is very true, and probably having Fellaini behind them would improve the defensive aspect. Kagawa on the left wing is a liability for Evra though as Kagawa isn't good at tracking a winger. He's very good at pressing high up the pitch with those quick feet of his, but he's not an out and out winger. I would rather have Nani on the left who is in fact quite decent at defending.

I think that Cleverley has improved his defending though. I would have either Smalling or Jones in defense as we need someone with pace to allow our back four to sit higher up the pitch. Rio and Vidic are too slow for that these days.
 
Love it...if Tom Cleverley has a poor game (in people's opinions) then he is a shit player. If he has a good game then it's because the opposition 'allowed' him to play.

Still can't work that one out at all? Particularly as Fellaini and others were still poor even if city did sit back....using the same theory everyone should have been much better...but they weren't!

Way too convenient for me.

He offers a number of things to the team...high workrate, retaining possession and high tempo.

He's been made a scapegoat by many for way too long.
 
Devil may care said:
You didn't "beat" anything, you simply ignored facts and kept on going.
Click to expand...


I was the one who ignored facts? :lol: e

When I asked you why our other players except Cleverley didn't stood up more after "City slowed down", this was your answer:

Devil may care said:
So after 2 games we should take our £27M CM and drop him or drop our best CM of the last 2 seasons, because a fresh Cleverley came on and played reasonably well for 30 minutes against a team that had already shut down? I'm not taking anything away from him but a bit of perspective when it comes to the context of the performance wouldn't hurt.
Click to expand...


Completely random thing to say, since I never mentioned Fellaini should be dropped or something like that, which means you ignored what I asked you in first place.


And as I see, Mr. Mujac and few others came with same point as me, so if you don't have better answer to my question, don't bother with quoting my post.
 
Mr. MUJAC said:
Love it...if Tom Cleverley has a poor game (in people's opinions) then he is a shit player. If he has a good game then it's because the opposition 'allowed' him to play.

Still can't work that one out at all? Particularly as Fellaini and others were still poor even if city did sit back....using the same theory everyone should have been much better...but they weren't!

Way too convenient for me.

He offers a number of things to the team...high workrate, retaining possession and high tempo.

He's been made a scapegoat by many for way too long.
Click to expand...

This.

Even if I do agree that he's been playing within himself since the 2nd leg of the Madrid tie last season. Yesterday was the first time Cleverley played like we know he can for months.
 
Amar__ said:
I was the one who ignored facts? :lol: e

When I asked you why our other players except Cleverley didn't stood up more after "City slowed down", this was your answer:




Completely random thing to say, since I never mentioned Fellaini should be dropped or something like that, which means you ignored what I asked you in first place.


And as I see, Mr. Mujac and few others came with same point as me, so if you don't have better answer to my question, don't bother with quoting my post.
Click to expand...

Yes you ignored the fact that City had took their foot off the pedal and as for why he played better than Fellaini? Well he hadn't been on 60 minutes already and hadn't played in midweek and was operating in a 3 which gave him the freedom neither Fellaini or Carrick had, there ya go. :)
 
Cleverley is a bit here nor there, for me. We don't need to judge him on a 30 minute cameo against a team that had switched off, we know all about him already. Mr Mujac is wrong, too. We looked better all over the park when City decided to shut up shop, it wasn't just Cleverley.
 
pocco said:
Cleverley is a bit here nor there, for me. We don't need to judge him on a 30 minute cameo against a team that had switched off, we know all about him already. Mr Mujac is wrong, too. We looked better all over the park when City decided to shut up shop, it wasn't just Cleverley.
Click to expand...


Exactly.Cleverley did ok but nothing more than that.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.