Tom Brady v Peyton Manning

Noy yo Fdart said:
Without a doubt the top two quarterbacks in the league. BOTH will make the Hall of Fame.

Manning does have the better stats and probably can out-throw Brady. But he DEFINITELY has always had the better receivers, and in general the better offense around him. The Colts are built around their offense, the Pats around their defense, yet Brady still manages to make the game about him.

DE, who gives a feck about draft picks? First round picks are always hyped up the arse and never really make as big an impact as all the pundits think. Don't go putting certain players on pedestals because of when they were drafted. Brady didn't go until one of the later rounds himself.

And as for the point about Manning running the offense generally on the fly (ie no-huddle, constant audibles and reading of the defense's formation), Brady can revert to that mode just as well and can succeed; it's all about pace and Brady is able to play at whatever it requires. The Colts can be devastating when they drive down the field the way they can; three 20 yard passes and they're in the red zone; it's very impressive and often effective, but if they are thrown off of their groove a little, they really fall flat. I seem to recall them being first and goal on the one yard line in the last seconds of a game against the pats a few years back; one td and they would win, yet they were turned down four plays in a row, and at home, quite pathetic. They have no running game either. Yes, I know they just beat us but I still value Brady at anytime. Manning is certainly capable of getting a ring though. The team around him is not quite as solid; ignoring their passing game, there isn't much EXCEPTIONAL about them. Manning is also sort of an uglier Beckham of the NFL; he has about 5000 new adverts a season, announcers and pundits are always looking to give him 2959439 compliments a game. If the media circus around him settled down, then maybe he wouldn't choke at every big game. The two times he's beaten the Pats have NOT been big games at all, despite the hype they received.

Brady is definitely my man. You can't argue with winning. Put it in football (english football that is) terms. If a side as talented as the Colts led by a player exceptional as Manning were never to win a damn thing, who would give a twat? Not I. Brady's got three rings and he's young and ready for more. Despite being a good-looking man with a nice hollywood girlfriend, he's really quite private and doesn't make any headlines except for his football. Manning's stats are exceptional, but most of this IS due to the team built around him, catered exactly to his talents. Keep in mind that game plans are drawn specifically to get him good stats. The Patriots rarely focus their strategy on giving Brady the chance to throw for a lot of yards and scores. They only do when the team they are playing can be exposed greatly by his game. This happened against the Vikings two weeks back (a poor pass defense was absolutely slaughtered by Brady and his no-name receiver squadron, despite us being able to attack them with an excellent one-two punch of running backs). The Colts would also destroy the Vikings, but they have no other weapons to turn to. Brady is the only big name on a rather unimpressive looking (keyword LOOKING) offense, yet he still wins constantly. Championships are championships; we can get back to this discussion when Manning's been to a Super Bowl (if he ever does get there) and then I'll re-consider. otherwise, feck him (and the colts, no other team in football that hasn't won shit gets such a good cock-sucking from the media).


1st. The pats are balanced offensively and defensively. One might be slightly more superior but they win the game on both sides of the ball. The Colts have no defense, especially no run defense. Their current average yards per run is the second worst in HISTORY.

2nd. Your point about hype is bullshit. Brady has been the posterboy of the NFL up untill a couple years ago. Mannning as only recently emerged as a likable guy when before he was being portrayed as some sort of football machine. Something like Bradys image now. Funny when the shoe is on the other foot.

3rd. With your comparisions to football here is mine. Manning is gerrard at liverpool whereas Brady is frank lampard/terry. With respect to league titles lampard/terry wins hands down. But without gerrard liverpool would be mediocre whereas without thoe two at chelsea they would probably still win the league.
 
Desert Eagle said:
1st. The pats are balanced offensively and defensively. One might be slightly more superior but they win the game on both sides of the ball. The Colts have no defense, especially no run defense. Their current average yards per run is the second worst in HISTORY.

2nd. Your point about hype is bullshit. Brady has been the posterboy of the NFL up untill a couple years ago. Mannning as only recently emerged as a likable guy when before he was being portrayed as some sort of football machine. Something like Bradys image now. Funny when the shoe is on the other foot.

3rd. With your comparisions to football here is mine. Manning is gerrard at liverpool whereas Brady is frank lampard/terry. With respect to league titles lampard/terry wins hands down. But without gerrard liverpool would be mediocre whereas without thoe two at chelsea they would probably still win the league.

1. Agreed. What that has to do with manning vs. brady debate, i'm not sure. my post was rambling in nature.

2. Well, then brady's won rings with any pair of shoes on or whatever the feck you're talking about. did you hear madden last sunday? all he could do was guzzle more of manning's semen with every comment. brady's posterboy reputation comes from winning. he still doesn't feck around with commercials like manning. i didn't even mention the manning family factor; whoop de doo, his father was a quarterback and his brother is one too. let's talk about it 24/7.

3. well gerrard has won the champions league among other trophies so that comparison is wank since as stated five zillion times manning has won feck all. the pats would not win a super bowl without brady.

This isn't going to be resolved.
My logic winds down to:
winning>stats
brady>manning
manning = fecker
 
RedCanadian said:
Noy = Closet Yankees Fan :lol:

yeah you caught me. I'm a closet yankees fan in the sense that I'm waiting in Steinbrenner's closet with a knife.
 
Noy yo Fdart said:
This isn't going to be resolved.
My logic winds down to:
winning>stats
brady>manning
manning = fecker

Fair enough.
My logic winds down to:
more wins>less wins
stats>superbowl rings
carrying a team on one players back> another cog in the patriot machine albeit an important one
Winning with a average head coach and lack of special teams> winning with a genius coach and the most clutch kicker ever.
 
RedCanadian said:
Hey Redyank, our little debate has taken on epic proportions it seems! :D



:lol:



And Desert Eagle- you lost me with your 1.2.3 points above. By lost I mean "what the feck?" lost. Not "whoosh above my head" lost.
 
Desert Eagle said:
Fair enough.
My logic winds down to:
more wins>less wins
stats>superbowl rings
carrying a team on one players back> another cog in the patriot machine albeit an important one
Winning with a average head coach and lack of special teams> winning with a genius coach and the most clutch kicker ever.

I don't see how stats are better than rings. Otherwise I suppose I can agree. This doesn't change my mind; it's really impossible to tell, they're horses of a different color really.
 
I think stats can be used when just examining the qualities that can be measured between two individuals. Manning has very large statistical advantage, but what can't be measured with stats is leadership. If you're looking for a QB who will be a leader on your team, you take Brady. If you're looking for the best QB possible, regardless of his leadership qualities, you take Manning. Some teams definitely need a QB that will lead their team, some teams need pure talent to put points up on the board. So the question of who is better really depends on what you need for your team.
 
redyank said:
:lol:



And Desert Eagle- you lost me with your 1.2.3 points above. By lost I mean "what the feck?" lost. Not "whoosh above my head" lost.

My 1st point showed that while the patriots have a great TEAM consisting of a good offense, a great D, great Special teams and a Hall of fame coach the colts have a great offense, a terrible defense, poor special teams till this season and a good coach. I think its easier to succeed in the firt team as a QB.

2nd point was that hype is irrelevant. The media switches. Brady was their man for many years but now a lot of those same people have jumped on Mannings bandwagon. It doesn't factor into who is the better QB.

Finally. the third point was an analogy to english football concerning league titles. Surely if gerrard never wins a league title its a reflection on those around him not that he himself is crap.
 
Desert Eagle said:
My 1st point showed that while the patriots have a great TEAM consisting of a good offense, a great D, great Special teams and a Hall of fame coach the colts have a great offense, a terrible defense, poor special teams till this season and a good coach. I think its easier to succeed in the firt team as a QB.

2nd point was that hype is irrelevant. The media switches. Brady was their man for many years but now a lot of those same people have jumped on Mannings bandwagon. It doesn't factor into who is the better QB.

Finally. the third point was an analogy to english football concerning league titles. Surely if gerrard never wins a league title its a reflection on those around him not that he himself is crap.


1. as for Brady's Pats vs Manning's Colts- I referenced the draft picks earlier to show how Manning has clearly had more talent on offense around him throughout his career. Enough in fact that if he had played better in his post-season games that he should have a Super Bowl trophy- regardless of how bad you claim his defense to be. Plus, as good a QB as he is, he should recognize the weakness in his D and plan on longer, more sustained drives? It isn't his system of course, but the adaptability of Brady is what adds to his leadership IMO



2. You're absolutely right about hype being irrelevant. But you were the one who brought it up. I don't think Brady is the better QB because of the media. Hype could be defined as exaggerated media adoration. 3 rings doesn't fit that description.


3. Not one post on here by anyone says Manning is crap though. Along your Gerrard analogy: while he scores more goals than Keane did, who is the better player when you look at influence on his club and trophies?
 
redyank said:
1. as for Brady's Pats vs Manning's Colts- I referenced the draft picks earlier to show how Manning has clearly had more talent on offense around him throughout his career. Enough in fact that if he had played better in his post-season games that he should have a Super Bowl trophy- regardless of how bad you claim his defense to be. Plus, as good a QB as he is, he should recognize the weakness in his D and plan on longer, more sustained drives? It isn't his system of course, but the adaptability of Brady is what adds to his leadership IMO



2. You're absolutely right about hype being irrelevant. But you were the one who brought it up. I don't think Brady is the better QB because of the media. Hype could be defined as exaggerated media adoration. 3 rings doesn't fit that description.


3. Not one post on here by anyone says Manning is crap though. Along your Gerrard analogy: while he scores more goals than Keane did, who is the better player when you look at influence on his club and trophies?


1. Which team with no defense has ever won a superbowl? Even the Rams led by Faulk had a great secondary.

2. Hype was brought up by Noy yo fdart.

3. If you read my earlier posts it was in comparision to terry or lampard.
 
Desert Eagle said:
1. Which team with no defense has ever won a superbowl? Even the Rams led by Faulk had a great secondary.

2. Hype was brought up by Noy yo fdart.

3. If you read my earlier posts it was in comparision to terry or lampard.




1. Manning has had Pro-Bowl players on his defense- Cato June LB Dwight Freeney DE and Bob Sanders at CB.
So has Brady, but the point isn't about player for player comparisons on Defense. The fact is that Manning has had capable players on defense and not some rag-tag group of high-school players you make them out to be.

2. my mistake


3. Your comparison is still based on the assumption of a claim that Manning is crap- which is wrong.

Take other players on their respective teams out of the equation for a minute and look at another factor.
Manning plays his home games indoors on astroturf. Brady plays in New Enlgand, outdoors. It isn't surprising that a QB of Mannings talent is throwing for the yards and TDs he has when he doesn't have to face the elements in December and January when at home. Brady has to contend with wind, snow, etc when at home during those games. Yet, he still wins more than his share.
 
1. It may be players or a bad D co-ordinator or whatever. The fact remains the Colts D is crap. and there is nothing manning can do about it. His failure to win a Superbowl can be attributed to this fact. If he had all the pieces in place and still didn't win a superbowl then your argument concerning rings comes into play.

2. Indoors and outdoors is a very fragile argument. Give me some numbers to back up your claim that brady plays worse during november/december at home.
 
Desert Eagle said:
1. It may be players or a bad D co-ordinator or whatever. The fact remains the Colts D is crap. and there is nothing manning can do about it. His failure to win a Superbowl can be attributed to this fact. If he had all the pieces in place and still didn't win a superbowl then your argument concerning rings comes into play.

2. Indoors and outdoors is a very fragile argument. Give me some numbers to back up your claim that brady plays worse during november/december at home.




1. Manning's failure to win a Superbowl has more to do with his 15 TD to 8 INT ratio. His defense doesn't throw the picks. What I am saying is that Manning DOES have the pieces in place and he has for a few years now. Looking at playoff games, his defense has given up an average of 25pts per game. His offense scores more than that in almost every regular season game.

2. I didn't claim that Brady plays worse during certain games/weather, etc. My point was that it is much easier to complete a pass indoors with no wind or rain or snow than it is outdoors in December.
Playoff examples:

1999 Colts 16 Titans 19 Colts defense did a good job that day
2000 Colts 17 Dolphins 23
2002 Jets 41 Colts 0 played outdoors*
2003 Pats 24 Colts 14 played outdoors* snowy conditions
2004 Pats 20 Colts 3 played outdoors* snowy conditions
2005 Steelers 21 Colts 18 18 points at home