Toaster Toes Timo Werner | Tottenham Player

hasanejaz88 said:
Would really be interesting to see whether they bring in Lukaku (don't think Haaland is a realistic option given Dortmund have qualified for the UCL), as it has been reported. He's the complete antithesis of Werner and would drastically change Tuchel's tactics.
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Really can't imagine that. Tuchel has never played a striker like that. At Dortmund he played Aubameyang, at PSG Mbappe and at Chelsea Werner/Havertz. All fast, all good on the ball and ablr to beat a player and all make many runs in behind, at times even drifting to the wings.

I think people heavily underrate how important Werner's work rate is. We see so many high possession teams unable to unlock defenses and Werner causes havoc for 90 minutes. There aren't many attackers who have the energy, pace and intelligence to make so many dangerous runs a game. There's no way Tuchel is giving up on that.

I believe long term, they'll be switching back to 4 at the back and bring in another attacker in the starting formation. Pulisic would make the squad more regularly then and Sancho would be the perfect upgrade on him. Would be exciting to see him under Tuchel given he's the closest thing to Neymar right now but with much, much better work ethic.
 
Hansinity said:
Maybe clinical was exaggerated. But I mean that his finishing this season is not his standard level of finishing.
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Perhaps the most remarkable stat I’ve seen this season is that Werner is in the bottom 1% for finishing in Europe’s top 5 leagues this season. Looking at goals - xG he’s in the bottom 2% but when you factor non penalty goals - npgxG he’s in the bottom 1%. It‘s pretty incredible that he’s just lifted the Champion League trophy. It’s the kind of finishing performance you’d expect from a hapless striker at the bottom of the French league.

Comparing to Sterling this season as posters often cite similarities in their poor finishing: Sterling in probably his worst season ever is in the 32nd percentile for goals - xG but fares better for non penalty goals - npgxG in the 58th percentile. Sterling’s performance is terrible for a striker at a top club but it further highlights how incredibly bad Werner has been in front of goal this season. It’s likely unprecedented.

Fair to say that the only way is up from here for his finishing - quite literally.

https://fbref.com/en/players/49fe9070/scout/365_euro/Timo-Werner-Scouting-Report

https://fbref.com/en/players/b400bde0/scout/365_euro/Raheem-Sterling-Scouting-Report

Of course all this means that if England face Germany in the Euros he’ll score a hat trick from 3 shots, spanking one into the top corner from 30 yards.
 
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I think he might explode next season, he makes the right runs he's just shot for confidence.
 
Zehner said:
Really can't imagine that. Tuchel has never played a striker like that. At Dortmund he played Aubameyang, at PSG Mbappe and at Chelsea Werner/Havertz. All fast, all good on the ball and ablr to beat a player and all make many runs in behind, at times even drifting to the wings.

I think people heavily underrate how important Werner's work rate is. We see so many high possession teams unable to unlock defenses and Werner causes havoc for 90 minutes. There aren't many attackers who have the energy, pace and intelligence to make so many dangerous runs a game. There's no way Tuchel is giving up on that.

I believe long term, they'll be switching back to 4 at the back and bring in another attacker in the starting formation. Pulisic would make the squad more regularly then and Sancho would be the perfect upgrade on him. Would be exciting to see him under Tuchel given he's the closest thing to Neymar right now but with much, much better work ethic.
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Sancho going to Chelsea would make your fecking year wouldn't it :lol:
 
Zehner said:
Really can't imagine that. Tuchel has never played a striker like that. At Dortmund he played Aubameyang, at PSG Mbappe and at Chelsea Werner/Havertz. All fast, all good on the ball and ablr to beat a player and all make many runs in behind, at times even drifting to the wings.

I think people heavily underrate how important Werner's work rate is. We see so many high possession teams unable to unlock defenses and Werner causes havoc for 90 minutes. There aren't many attackers who have the energy, pace and intelligence to make so many dangerous runs a game. There's no way Tuchel is giving up on that.

I believe long term, they'll be switching back to 4 at the back and bring in another attacker in the starting formation. Pulisic would make the squad more regularly then and Sancho would be the perfect upgrade on him. Would be exciting to see him under Tuchel given he's the closest thing to Neymar right now but with much, much better work ethic.
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I was about to say the same thing in my post but then remembered Szalai played during Tuchel's first few seasons at Mainz, and he was pretty decent as well. But yea since then he's always had a mobile striker, didn't prefer to play Icardi during his time at PSG as well.
 
Honestly the popular opinion on here is that he is going to explode into a top player next season. I’ll make my own prediction, he will continue to be shite next season.
 
Harry Harries said:
Sancho going to Chelsea would make your fecking year wouldn't it :lol:
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Among the young players right now, Sancho is my favourite to watch so naturally I want to do him well. I think he would be excellent at Chelsea but it doesn't really matter to me where he ends up as long as the clubs gets the best out of him and that's primarily dependent on the coach. I'd also like to see him under Klopp or Guardiola, mind.

hasanejaz88 said:
I was about to say the same thing in my post but then remembered Szalai played during Tuchel's first few seasons at Mainz, and he was pretty decent as well. But yea since then he's always had a mobile striker, didn't prefer to play Icardi during his time at PSG as well.
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Yeah, Szalai also crossed my mind but I think rhe Mainz time is hard to compare. Dortmund, PSG and Chelsea are at least somewhat comparable in terms of options while at Mainz he always had to make due.
 
Zehner said:
Yeah, I'm sure Chelsea is devastated right now. And who is Tuchel to disagree with you?

Anyway, I think Chelsea is well advised to not bring in a immobile striker. It's a matter of time until Werner finds his composure again and Havertz just had a brillant game as a false 9. Bringing in a striker might significantly mess with their chance creation. Especially since Tuchel's strikers in general are very mobile and fast sou it would be hard to find a more fitting option than Werner or Havertz. Can only repeat myself, if I were them I would go all in on Sancho. They don't need anyone so they should just secure the most likely best player of the upcoming decade while they have the opportunity to do it. No brainer for me.
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Your posting style is very abrasive.
 
Mount's Goatieson said:
The last few posts by the usual suspects have been borderline hilarious! Yeah Chelsea and the fans must be crying after spending 47m on him and only the CL to show for it.
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But he could have easily been the reason you lost it. Imagine City scoring after Teemu fluffed all those chances?
 
What's with the Vardy comparisons?

Vardy has been one of the Premier League best strikers since 2015.

Werner is not as good? No shit but then again hardly anyone else has been either.
 
For the price tag and reputation far more was expected of him. Yes he's contributing but that was not a sufficient season IMO and knowing how ruthless Chelsea are as a club I wouldn't be totally surprised if he was moved on in the summer.
 
GifLord said:
Does it even matter if said striker then doesn't finish them?
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No, but the point was, if he is essentially one of the only players that can get that separation from the City CB's, then you can't blame him too much, as no one else would've been in the position to miss in the first place.
 
Judas said:
He'll double his goal tally next season, I've no doubt.



It's quite exhausting. I don't get why you'd be on here and be so weirdly aggressive when making every single point :lol:
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I can be a nuisance at times (although I'm usually on the wind up when so) but yeah literally everything he posts is in a condescending, passive aggressive tone.

Not sure why
 
Dave Smith said:
No, but the point was, if he is essentially one of the only players that can get that separation from the City CB's, then you can't blame him too much, as no one else would've been in the position to miss in the first place.
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Do you think Werner's skillset is unique? I'm sure for 50m you can find plenty of hard working players who make intelligent runs, especially if goal scoring is strictly optional.
 
do.ob said:
Do you think Werner's skillset is unique? I'm sure for 50m you can find plenty of hard working players who make intelligent runs, especially if goal scoring is strictly optional.
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I think the unique thing is his consistency doing it. There are surely a lot of players who can make these intelligent runs, but I am not sure there are a lot who do it that often every game.
 
do.ob said:
Do you think Werner's skillset is unique? I'm sure for 50m you can find plenty of hard working players who make intelligent runs, especially if goal scoring is strictly optional.
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Don't see anyone else in the Chelsea squad doing it, maybe Pulisic. However, Werner's rate at doing it is pretty high level as he is consistently making such chances throughout a game. Other players may do it a few times in a game.
 
Tore the best defense in the premier league apart last night time and again. He'll never put up Kane like numbers but he won't need to, neither did Drogba and he accomplished a bit.

15 or so league goals and that level of performance most weeks and he'll be a beast.
 
padr81 said:
Tore the best defense in the premier league apart last night time and again. He'll never put up Kane like numbers but he won't need to, neither did Drogba and he accomplished a bit.

15 or so league goals and that level of performance most weeks and he'll be a beast.
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Still baffled that Pep didn't put Fernandinho to mark him. Pep even talked in a Interview about Werner and he rarely mention names.
 
Dave Smith said:
Don't see anyone else in the Chelsea squad doing it, maybe Pulisic. However, Werner's rate at doing it is pretty high level as he is consistently making such chances throughout a game. Other players may do it a few times in a game.
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I mean obviously no one in the Chelsea squad does that to the same extend, otherwise Tuchel wouldn't play him every game. But that doesn't necessarily justify the price tag.
 
Hulksmash said:
Still baffled that Pep didn't put Fernandinho to mark him. Pep even talked in a Interview about Werner and he rarely mention names.
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Classic Pep thinking I can't keep them out so play another attacker and try to outscore them. If you look at the job Kante did on Kdb you'd wonder why pep is so reluctant to focus on the opposition. I nearly cracked when I read the team sheet pre-game. Alas a moan I need to make in a different thread.
 
He's a good player and fits Chelsea's system to a tee.

But I remember the first couple of times I watched him for Germany, my first impressions were that his finishing wasn't that good. Struck me more as a wide forward, a bit of a Welbeck type player. Welbecks finishing never really did improve which is a shame since he had everything else.
 
stefan92 said:
I think the unique thing is his consistency doing it. There are surely a lot of players who can make these intelligent runs, but I am not sure there are a lot who do it that often every game.
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He led all forwards in sprints this season by a significant margin - on par with peak Vardy from a few years ago. There are definitely others who can make the same types of runs, but finding players to do it as incessantly is quite difficult, and especially twice a week.
 
Judas said:
He'll double his goal tally next season, I've no doubt.



It's quite exhausting. I don't get why you'd be on here and be so weirdly aggressive when making every single point :lol:
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That's nonsense unless you only read the Sancho and Werner threads. And it's easy to see why the tone is a bit more aggressive when dealing with the hypocrisy and ignorance displayed in those threads :)
 
padr81 said:
Tore the best defense in the premier league apart last night time and again. He'll never put up Kane like numbers but he won't need to, neither did Drogba and he accomplished a bit.

15 or so league goals and that level of performance most weeks and he'll be a beast.
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This, yeah. He massively underperformed in front of goal this season, if that changes that's what he will be

Chelsea would still need a goalscorer to partner with him though
 
giorno said:
This, yeah. He massively underperformed in front of goal this season, if that changes that's what he will be

Chelsea would still need a goalscorer to partner with him though
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I think if Havertz could chip in with 15 or so league goals too thats leave them needing maybe 40 from everywhere else which with Mount/Pulisic/Ziyech/Giroud/Abraham and their midfield/defenders. Given their threat from set pieces alone I'd say they'll be good. They're so good at the back they likely wouldn't have to score 80 or 90 goals to win the title. That said you put a Kane or Halaand in there and have something like
---------------------------Mendy--------------------------
---------------Azpi-----Silva----Rudiger-------------
James-----------------------------------------Chilwell
-----------------Jorginho-Kante-----------------------
------------------------Mount------------------------------
---------------Haaland------Werner------------------

Thats quite a scary first XI with Havertz, Ziyech, Kovacic, Christansen etc.. all rotating in and out. Kinda frightening actually. That big spend were were laughing about 6 months ago looks pretty damn good now.
 
Thing about Werner is he is SO critical to how we play. There’s few players in word football currently who can unbalance defenses by sheer pace. If he can spend the summer learning to hit the barn door we only need a back up striker.
 
SirReginald said:
Thing about Werner is he is SO critical to how we play. There’s few players in word football currently who can unbalance defenses by sheer pace. If he can spend the summer learning to hit the barn door we only need a back up striker.
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Wouldn't a slower player but a better player be better for you? If all his pace leads him down mostly dead ends then what use is it? You arent even that good going forward, its your weakest area imo
 
padr81 said:
I think if Havertz could chip in with 15 or so league goals too thats leave them needing maybe 40 from everywhere else which with Mount/Pulisic/Ziyech/Giroud/Abraham and their midfield/defenders. Given their threat from set pieces alone I'd say they'll be good. They're so good at the back they likely wouldn't have to score 80 or 90 goals to win the title. That said you put a Kane or Halaand in there and have something like
---------------------------Mendy--------------------------
---------------Azpi-----Silva----Rudiger-------------
James-----------------------------------------Chilwell
-----------------Jorginho-Kante-----------------------
------------------------Mount------------------------------
---------------Haaland------Werner------------------

Thats quite a scary first XI with Havertz, Ziyech, Kovacic, Christansen etc.. all rotating in and out. Kinda frightening actually. That big spend were were laughing about 6 months ago looks pretty damn good now.
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I don't think Haaland really fits this team. And I'd also be surprised of they play three at the back next season. Up until now Tuchel preferred different formations if given the choice. He never really played a ten plus two strikers either.

Werner by the way matched Haaland's goal record this season just a year ago without having players of Sancho or Reus quality feeding him. I'm sure Tuchel will keep on switching between formationsbut it would highly surprise me if he suddenly includes a target man type of striker. As good as Haaland is, he's not really suited to fluid attacking play,is he?
 
Zehner said:
I don't think Haaland really fits this team. And I'd also be surprised of they play three at the back next season. Up until now Tuchel preferred different formations if given the choice. He never really played a ten plus two strikers either.

Werner by the way matched Haaland's goal record this season just a year ago without having players of Sancho or Reus quality feeding him. I'm sure Tuchel will keep on switching between formationsbut it would highly surprise me if he suddenly includes a target man type of striker. As good as Haaland is, he's not really suited to fluid attacking play,is he?
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You think Werner is better than Haaland at fluid attacking play?
 
If Chelsea have enough goals in them from the rest of the team then he will be great for them to have in the team. He's a pest, in the nicest possible way.
 
cyberman said:
Wouldn't a slower player but a better player be better for you? If all his pace leads him down mostly dead ends then what use is it? You arent even that good going forward, its your weakest area imo
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What makes it handy is the space it creates for others. Yesterday was the most blatant example of it, where when Werner made a run out wide, he created space by spitting the central defenders. He didn’t touch the ball, but he was vital in making it happen. It’s especially noticeable when he’s playing in tandem with someone like Havertz, who has that Muller like ability to both notice and exploit space.

He absolutely needs to add more goals considering the positions he gets into, but he’s also very vital for Chelsea, and they’re play is noticeable worse off when he’s not playing. Speed isn’t the end all when it comes to attributes, but having someone who is rapid and has intelligent movement means he’ll always be a headache for opposition back lines, someone who can disrupt and create space.
 
VorZakone said:
You think Werner is better than Haaland at fluid attacking play?
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Haaland is obviously the better player but yes, he's not suited to fluid attacking play. When Werner plays striker, he makes many runs to drag defenders out of their position, for instance on the wings. That leaves typical striker areas unoccupied and Havertz - who is very comfortable in these positions - can then attack those areas. Haaland always occupies these areas himself. He's a target man and has improved massively with his back to the goal but he's rarely interchanging positions. His skill set limits him to the striker position.

I also think that this fluid attacking play is very succesful at the moment and hard to defend. We had two teams with false nines in the CL final this season and in the past years, many teams had strikers that leave their typical aread occasionally. Benzema - Cristiano, Suarez - Messi, Firmino - Salah and now Werner - Havertz. I'm not sure Haaland is suited for that style of play and I don't see why Chelsea should change their system after winning the CL etc.
 
bsCallout said:
If Chelsea have enough goals in them from the rest of the team then he will be great for them to have in the team. He's a pest, in the nicest possible way.
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I habe to agree. His finishing has been comical this season but his runs on and off the ball are a real asset
 
cyberman said:
Wouldn't a slower player but a better player be better for you? If all his pace leads him down mostly dead ends then what use is it? You arent even that good going forward, its your weakest area imo
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Issue is he couldn't hit the broad side of a barn this season. His pace didn't lead down dead ends, it was very effective, he just couldn't make it matter often enough...so that something that might change on its own next season

Chelsea do struggle when they don't have space in behind, yeah, which is why a pure CF is very much needed. A couple dribblers on the wings wouldn't hurt either

It's a weird team, because their best XI right now is absolute murder against great sides that give them space - and werner has routinely blown up defences sometimes without even playing well in those situations - but it doesn't quite work that reliably against weaker sides that park the bus. But on the other hand they do have most of the pieces for that too on their bench, they just lack a great presence in the box
 
giorno said:
Issue is he couldn't hit the broad side of a barn this season. His pace didn't lead down dead ends, it was very effective, he just couldn't make it matter often enough...so that something that might change on its own next season

Chelsea do struggle when they don't have space in behind, yeah, which is why a pure CF is very much needed. A couple dribblers on the wings wouldn't hurt either

It's a weird team, because their best XI right now is absolute murder against great sides that give them space - and werner has routinely blown up defences sometimes without even playing well in those situations - but it doesn't quite work that reliably against weaker sides that park the bus. But on the other hand they do have most of the pieces for that too on their bench, they just lack a great presence in the box
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Pulisic fits that bill. Bit of a stop start season but he can be very effective at beating his marker, still young as well so I think there's more to come from him. I agree with what you've said, it'll be interesting to see how Chelsea approach this transfer window, I think they're potentially going to challenge next season.
 
It says it all about Chelsea that they've still come top 4 and won the Champions league despite their attackers being fairly poor / injured all season, and barely ever fielding their strongest front 4 all season.

Imagine if they actually had them firing for a decent length of time.
 
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