Time to stand by Rangnick

fergiewherearethou said:
I think you are mostly right.

Ralf made very little improvement over Ole results wise, if you compare what Ole did after Mourinho left, that is night and day difference.
Also we do not know who the new manager will be and how well he will cooperate with Ralf. How can we know that the new manager will take into consideration Ralf's recommendations ? It's now like there coming from a legendary manager of footballing figure.

I would of preferred a quick fix, someone capable of turning this around fast, immediately and saving our current season, because we were still in 2 cups and top 4 battle when Ralf arrived. Now we are out of every achievable goal, sure mathematically 4th is still possible, but in reality we all know we will be playing on Thursdays next season.
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We were 6th when Mou got sacked and we finish 6th with Ole that season, with no win in the last 5 matches, losing 4-0 to Everton and 2-0 to feckin' Cardiff. If we had competent board, his contract should be terminated after the season ended. Imagine United without Maguire and AWB, we can only dream
 
AR87 said:
Think the best thing he's done is not protect the players at every turn. He's not thrown them under the bus either, but he hasn't minced words.

There's too many bluffers and players more interested in being comfortable rather than being held accountable for performances and fighting for minutes.

Are players like Fred or McTominay the caliber we need to win titles in the starting XI? Probably not, but they're not BS artists. give you everything they have when they're on the pitch and have qualities useful in a squad.

Players like Pogba and this current version of Rashford, who have all the talent in the world, but not the commitment are much bigger problems. I think Ralf recognizes that mentality as much as talent identification to suit a unified vision in recruitment in the transfer market is a massive issue at the club. Cleaning up this mess isn't going to be bloodless, and Ralf doesn't seem afraid to get his hands dirty. It's up to the board to let him get on with it in the summer and shape the direction of the club with player recruitment and appointing a manager.
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Do you even watch us play?
 
lawliet354 said:
We were 6th when Mou got sacked and we finish 6th with Ole that season, with no win in the last 5 matches, losing 4-0 to Everton and 2-0 to feckin' Cardiff. If we had competent board, his contract should be terminated after the season ended. Imagine United without Maguire and AWB, we can only dream
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Maybe I did not make myself clear to what I was referring to, what I meant was the immediate impact on sacking Mourinho and bringing Ole was, not the way we finished that season. Ole won something like 12 from first 15 games, which was a massive and unexpected achievement at the time.

Also the board rushed to renew his contract before our slump began, maybe if the good run never happened he wouldn't of stayed for that long. It would of made them look like amateurs (which they were anyway) if they terminated his contract 3 months after offering him a permanent job. Our board should have waited for the season to end before offering Ole a permanent job, it's not like the top clubs would of been all over him.
 
Shouldn’t this be in the Rangnick thread?

Not a fan of Ralf. He’s a nice guy, a tactical innovator, but has failed to produce the desired results. Yet another poor choice by the board, the Glazers and the CEO.
 
We can't be chopping an changing managers without a DOF in place. I doubt what we have is a DOF in its true sense. Right now, I'd like to see this bloke have a go at it for an extra year and then hand it over to Enrique next year.
 
DSG said:
Shouldn’t this be in the Rangnick thread?

Not a fan of Ralf. He’s a nice guy, a tactical innovator, but has failed to produce the desired results. Yet another poor choice by the board, the Glazers and the CEO.
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You can't employ a manager with the technical coaching of rangnick and expect results in 6 months with no signings, inheriting a clusterfeck. It even took Klopp longer than that.
 
If the right candidate isn’t available this summer then I have no trouble sticking with Ralf for another season. If we do get an Enrique, Poch or Ten Hag then hopefully Ralf stays on upstairs and tries to sort out the club.

I think as well he tried to implement the pressing as soon as he came in then quickly realised we just don’t have the players for it so had to change what he intended to bring and what he is best known for. I think what he has probably learned over the last few months will be invaluable to the next person if they are willing to listen to what Ralf has to say.

Whoever comes in next really has to take a hard line and get rid of some of the players as I’d rather have a good team than a bunch of lazy stat padders. Heck I’d bet a team of 11 Fred’s would destroy the first team United 11.
 
Not really done anything/ much to gain my trust except some good interviews or treating of players.

The One thing im looking forward to though is Rangnick hopefully acting like a manager that is always there so we can have some flow going from manager A to manager B and then manager B to manager C; trying to constantly build our team rather than having to break it and rebuild it every 2 and a half years.
 
I agree with Neville and Keane about him.

He's just really trying his best to pick up results and make it to top 4 by the end of the season.

But Manchester United players have clearly shown mentality problems and there seems to be issues at the club again that are out of his control.

This season is a write-off. He's an interim. Nobody was expecting a manager to come in and get top 4. They were expected to "try". I don't know why suddenly he is blamed for not making Top 4 with a team that lost 4 - 1 against fecking Watford and clearly show no desire or commitment.

Under Ole, we were in free-fall. Any interim coming in to any club usually has the goal of stabilizing results, and trying to provide a fresh start. That was what we needed.
Has Rangnick stabilized the club? You could say that yes, he has.

What Rangnick should be judged on, is what happens when the new manager comes and beyond. Can we behave and act like a football club again, rather than a business that deals in hype more than actual success on the pitch.
There is a clear problem of mentality in that squad. Whoever the new manager is needs to be fully aware of what they're walking into and how to revitalize and remove the bad influences.

However, on this season, it is not fair to judge or criticize him, given the antics that have occurred throughout the season.
 
Fluctuation0161 said:
You can't employ a manager with the technical coaching of rangnick and expect results in 6 months with no signings, inheriting a clusterfeck. It even took Klopp longer than that.
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Xavi and Tuchel seemed to do just fine. Rangnick has literally won nothing, isn’t even that highly regarded in Germany, I believe. Klopp won major trophies before arriving at Liverpool and made a CL final.

Ralf was tasked with making the top 4 and fixing our defense. Neither has happened. Bringing in a very inexperienced Chris Armas to run training was another mistake. We’ll see if he can pull us into 4th, but we are already out of the FA and CL. To me, he’s been a disappointment.
 
DSG said:
Xavi and Tuchel seemed to do just fine. Rangnick has literally won nothing, isn’t even that highly regarded in Germany, I believe. Klopp won major trophies before arriving at Liverpool and made a CL final.

Ralf was tasked with making the top 4 and fixing our defense. Neither has happened. Bringing in a very inexperienced Chris Armas to run training was another mistake. We’ll see if he can pull us into 4th, but we are already out of the FA and CL. To me, he’s been a disappointment.
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Those managers didn't inherit the clusterfeck created by our boards decade long lack of planning and poor squad building. Not to mention 3 months of zero coaching from Ole going to the most technical of coaching from Ralf.

I'm almost agreeing with you in that, Ralf should not be hired for only 6 months as a manager, he is a long term results manager. With a technical and difficult style of play to learn for the players, our players who have no experience of this at united. Once again the board have made the wrong move. Ralf is not a short term results guy. He is a much longer term man.
 
Fluctuation0161 said:
Those managers didn't inherit the clusterfeck created by our boards decade long lack of planning and poor squad building. Not to mention 3 months of zero coaching from Ole going to the most technical of coaching from Ralf.

I'm almost agreeing with you in that, Ralf should not be hired for only 6 months as a manager, he is a long term results manager. With a technical and difficult style of play to learn for the players, our players who have no experience of this at united. Once again the board have made the wrong move. Ralf is not a short term results guy. He is a much longer term man.
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Barca was in pretty bad shape, same with Chelsea. There was talent, but we have talent on paper too.

I’m not a huge Ralf fan. I see him as a tactical innovator, but not necessarily a good coach or a good manager. I don’t think he’s particularly good at man management or training the squad. I do think he’s good at talent evaluation and roster building. He was probably the wrong choice for interim if we wanted to win a trophy or make top 4.
 
Bumping this thread because I saw it coming. Ralf is getting it from both fans and pundits. For example I saw Rio saying Ralf is being over critical so he shifts the blame and not ruin his own reputation. Ralf has said already he wasn't involved in interviewing the new manager. He seems left out from the top level. Fans are turning on him because of the results, because of the dressing room etc. Its fkg disgusting. I knew this was coming and I think we are done if Ralf is sacked and thats what its looking like to me. Well and truly done. Forget if he is a top manager. Forget even if he is a good person to be in an advisory role or whatever role he should have next. Forget the leaks. Forget what Lingard said. Its all secondary to the real problem. It doesn't matter. What matters is we have a bunch of players that downs tools and refuses to play and then on top it what's worse is they have the power to get rid of the manager. They have the power to get a bigger contract. They control United. Does anyone even see this. The players are arguing, downing tools and refusing to listen to the manager! How is this possible! And its not like its the first manager they have done this to. Its all 5 of them to some degree or other.

WE CAN NOT HAVE THIS. Even if Ralf is sht. We can not allow the players to go above the manager. If we do we are done as a football club. If Ralf is sacked and Ten Haag comes in nothing will change. Sure there might be a boost. Maybe top 4. But its just a plaster on a pus filled infected wound.

Ralf could have come in. Been all nicey nicey. Oh extra days off. Dont worry you dont have to run. Not saying anything negative in the press and just lasted 6 months and have everyone love him. Maybe bring in a few biscuits and cookies every now and again. But he risked his reputation built up over 30 plus years to stand up and speak the truth about this bunch of useless bunch of arseholes. Not just the players but the whole club. He has said everything needs to change, open heart surgery. He has said recruitment is not right. And on and on. Its a death wish like insulting Putin but he did it anyway for the good of the club. And he hasn't been an arse about it. He just spoke honestly and truthfully.

We cant have it both ways. Either we want to get back to being a proper football club or we dont. If we do we need to go through the pain. We will loose points. The dressing room will be a shambles. Players will need to be chucked out. Staff need to be chucked out like recruitment team. But none of this can happen if the fans, the pundits and the board turn on the person trying to bring about change.

I said it before and I say it again. Stick by Rangnick. IF Ten Haag has any chance whatsoever he needs someone that is not afraid to speak the truth and stand up for what is right.
 
Embarrassing thread. Ralf is the manager. He has won 40 % of his games. That is unacceptable. Shows how far the standards have fallen when there are fans who want to stand by a bum who is totally out of his depth.
 
Ralf has all the authority of a substitute teacher. We all remember at school whenever your teacher was off everyone would play up. This has been no different.

Interim managers just don't work for me. We should have offered Ajax treble or even quadruple the buyout fee and got him in sooner.
 
Nou_Camp99 said:
Ralf has all the authority of a substitute teacher. We all remember at school whenever your teacher was off everyone would play up. This has been no different.

Interim managers just don't work for me. We should have offered Ajax treble or even quadruple the buyout fee and got him in sooner.
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Post of the year. Bang on.
 
Absolutely this. Our fans make way too many excuses for players and the manager always pays the price for it. Time to realise it’s the players and not the manager costing us competitive at the highest level
 
Ragnick is and was always going to be interim. Did I hope things would be better? yes, am I surprised how it turned out? NO. The main draw to RR for me was for his consultancy period, I gave up on the season since November. I lay the blame entirely on the players and management (coaching and upper level) before, and I'm glad he's turning the heat on them. I think even Pep and Klopp would struggle in this shower of filth that has been created, at least in the earlies. RR doesn't have the luxury of time.
 
Prodigal7 said:
Absolutely this. Our fans make way too many excuses for players and the manager always pays the price for it. Time to realise it’s the players and not the manager costing us competitive at the highest level
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Nobody is absolving the players of blame.

But rangnick has been a disaster. In such a short span of time he has lost the team completely. None of his ideas worked and he hasn't a clue how to fix it.

All he is doing now is throwing people under the bus with each press conference, because he knows he has lost everyone at the club and has nothing to lose.

A complete fraud of a "manager".

We were 3 points off fourth place when he took over ffs. In hindsight Carrick would have probably done far better.
 
Samid said:
Embarrassing thread. Ralf is the manager. He has won 40 % of his games. That is unacceptable. Shows how far the standards have fallen when there are fans who want to stand by a bum who is totally out of his depth.
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Nonsense. No manager could win with these bunch of overinflated, self obsessed, infant minded players who are not Man United players. You can run through another 4 or 5 managers but the results will be the same until we do major heart surgery to this squad, kick loads out and bring loads in. Rangnick is spot on
 
Everyone needs to stop being so dramatic. Ralf isn’t getting sacked. He’s also failed as manager according the results, there’s nothing wrong with admitting that as a fan.

I’m not really sure anyone has gained at all from him being so open in public. I understand that he feels he can due to him not being the long term manager, but there’s a reason managers never do it. I can’t see that the board wants him to piss everyone off so much that they miss out on top four and want to leave.
 
DevilRed said:
Nobody is absolving the players of blame.

But rangnick has been a disaster. In such a short span of time he has lost the team completely. None of his ideas worked and he hasn't a clue how to fix it.

All he is doing now is throwing people under the bus with each press conference, because he knows he has lost everyone at the club and has nothing to lose.

A complete fraud of a "manager".

We were 3 points off fourth place when he took over ffs. In hindsight Carrick would have probably done far better.
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“He’s lost the players” is my least favourite phrase. Maybe the players lost him by acting in the way they did and not listening to his instructions.
But no let’s pander to these players that can’t succeed under any manager and throw all their managers under the bus. Rangnick is just reacting to the way they are behaving.
Notice how none of our former players are blaming Rangnick and they’re all blaming the players. We’re a very joined up club in that sense so it’s no coincidence
 
Chelsea have used interim managers in the past like hiddink, di matteo and benitez to great effect, even ole was OK as interim as he lifted the dark cloud off the club but the board did the dumb thing of handing a full time contract.

There are no excuses for ragnick, he has failed in every area, he has played it safe, he has been tactless with his words, has created an even worse atmosphere in the dressing room than mourinho, no style of play, awful results when he had very favourable schedule fixture up until this month.

Our fans never learn time and time again, they will make excuse after excuse and lower standards when it is clear our managers post fergie are not improving us but will be quick enough to do mental gymnastics to slate other managers like klopp, potchettino, conte, tuchel etc.. to make our underwhelming managers not look as bad despite those rival managers mentioned doing better than our failure of managers.
 
As a manager he is not a success. What he has done is brilliant in telling as it is. Otherwise if Pok had come all this would be swept under the carpet and after a couple of years it's going to surface again.
 
The players are dog shit. We have like 4-5 players total that are worth something. The rest have pitiful mentality while others just lack the ability. Rangnick carries some of the blame, but the bulk lies with the likes of Pogba, Rashford, Greenwood, Maguire and such.

Besides, his manager tenure is irrelevant for his next job, which I hope he gets within the club. Just like great footballers often make dreadful managers. One has nothing to do with the other.
 
Prodigal7 said:
“He’s lost the players” is my least favourite phrase. Maybe the players lost him by acting in the way they did and not listening to his instructions.
But no let’s pander to these players that can’t succeed under any manager and throw all their managers under the bus. Rangnick is just reacting to the way they are behaving.
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I'd love to hear the players side of things though.

We've heard some grumblings about his staff being ted lassoesque.

Its a shit situation all around. He was the wrong appointment in hindsight. Conte would probably have suited this team far more.

Hindsight and all that. The players are cnuts (most of them). I don't absolve them of blame.

But any semblance of organisation/motivation would have got us fourth place. Baffling how a team with all these talented players can play like strangers every week.
 
Well, probably not the right appointment for a short-term stint like this. He’s a system manager, with a very specific way of playing. We don’t have the players for that, so it all fell apart before it even began.

Still think overall he was a good appointment. Maybe he doesn’t have the authority to make the changes he’s identified, but the club will listen to what he’s saying. The fact that Murtough looks up to Rangnick as a DOF type figure before appointment him would indicate that.
 
DevilRed said:
Nobody is absolving the players of blame.

But rangnick has been a disaster. In such a short span of time he has lost the team completely. None of his ideas worked and he hasn't a clue how to fix it.

All he is doing now is throwing people under the bus with each press conference, because he knows he has lost everyone at the club and has nothing to lose.

A complete fraud of a "manager".

We were 3 points off fourth place when he took over ffs. In hindsight Carrick would have probably done far better.
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Yeah but that's not the point.

If any manager "loses the players" while they're close to top4 and trying to save their season, I'm sorry, it's on them, not on him. If you need a likeable or top manager to ask you to do the most decent fecking things in this sport, which are running, positioning and first touch, then you don't belong here anyway.

I really hope people realize what the problem with this squad is. It's not down to having genius tactics like Pep or Klopp, it's down to the players putting the effort in and we now know the answer to that.
To me, that's the best thing that happened to this club in the last 10 years, knowing which players are either shit or either not bothered.

Again, we don't need ETH, Klopp or Guardiola, we need to fecking send 15 out of 30 players on their way.
 
youmeletsfly said:
Yeah but that's not the point.

If any manager "loses the players" while they're close to top4 and trying to save their season, I'm sorry, it's on them, not on him. If you need a likeable or top manager to ask you to do the most decent fecking things in this sport, which are running, positioning and first touch, then you don't belong here anyway.

I really hope people realize what the problem with this squad is. It's not down to having genius tactics like Pep or Klopp, it's down to the players putting the effort in and we now know the answer to that.
To me, that's the best thing that happened to this club in the last 10 years, knowing which players are either shit or either not bothered.

Again, we don't need ETH, Klopp or Guardiola, we need to fecking send 15 out of 30 players on their way.
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100% this. I bet most people that disagree with this have never managed a team before in any environment
 
Quite clear he's playing the bad guy in this and he's hear to get rid of all the deadwood so the new guy has a better chance,
the players aren't listening because half are leaving and the other half is upset their easy ride is gone.
If it takes 1 bad season to get rid of these losers then so be it.
Ralf can bin the lot of them and start a fresh.
 
Samid said:
Embarrassing thread. Ralf is the manager. He has won 40 % of his games. That is unacceptable. Shows how far the standards have fallen when there are fans who want to stand by a bum who is totally out of his depth.
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Nou_Camp99 said:
Ralf has all the authority of a substitute teacher. We all remember at school whenever your teacher was off everyone would play up. This has been no different.

Interim managers just don't work for me. We should have offered Ajax treble or even quadruple the buyout fee and got him in sooner.
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Exactly my point. You are complaining about the walls when the house is burning to the ground. Lets say Ralf is the worst manager in history. Lets say interim managers are a joke. Lets say he's a fkn arse and has been all mean to the poor players. Worse than Mourinho. Maybe he comes in and shouts at the tea lady. I disagree but the whole point is so what. That does not give the players the excuse to down tools disrespect the manager and refuse to play. None whatsoever. They could have complained to the board or had a few words to Sir Alex. Asked the Captain to do something. Whatever. But then they go into training and then into the match and give everything they have. Full stop. Once they took the other path then the board should have no other choice than to stick by the manager. You cannot have any footballers in any club down tools because they dont like the manager. None. What reason can you give me that this is acceptable? Please tell me one because I cant see it. This is not a debate about if Ralf is a good or bad manager. He's leaving in 5 games for fks sake and he has only been here 5 months. Go to the other threads to discuss his management. Its about who do we stick by. Lets say Ten Haag comes in and ruffles a few feathers and wins 40 percent of his first games. Then what? What exactly do you want to do from here? Sack Rangnick and placate the players. Give them all new contracts and promise to play them? What? What's your plan? Because all I see is one path that gets us out of this sht and thats to stick by Ralf and get rid of the cancer in the dressing room.
 
Samid said:
Embarrassing thread. Ralf is the manager. He has won 40 % of his games. That is unacceptable. Shows how far the standards have fallen when there are fans who want to stand by a bum who is totally out of his depth.
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Is it feck, when will fans like you stop making excuses for these cnuts that play for United, things need to change at this club and that starts with the players and trying to make out it’s the managers fault just gives this lot the fuel for their bullshit fire.
 
Nou_Camp99 said:
Ralf has all the authority of a substitute teacher. We all remember at school whenever your teacher was off everyone would play up. This has been no different.

Interim managers just don't work for me. We should have offered Ajax treble or even quadruple the buyout fee and got him in sooner.
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This mostly makes the point that Ralf isn’t the problem and that some in the squad are disruptive infants that need to be booted out.
 
Prodigal7 said:
This mostly makes the point that Ralf isn’t the problem and that some in the squad are disruptive infants that need to be booted out.
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Or that it was inevitable when once again our board wasn't prepared for sacking Ole. Clearly they didn't want to but felt like it had to be done. No plan again has cost us CL football
 
100% behind him. Get rid of the downers. Exactly what the club needs. Players leaching off the club for years, while every rival club goes further into the distance. If we fail to stand behind him, we'll look at at least another 10 years of mediocrity and failed transfer strategy, direction, results and trophy cabinet while we go through managers like prime Madrid/Chelsea.
 
Oh, why you look so sad?
Tears are in your eyes
Come on and come to me now
Don't be ashamed to cry
Let me see you through
'Cause I've seen the dark side too
When the night falls on you
You don't know what to do
Nothing you confess
Could make me love you less
I'll stand by you
I'll stand by you
Won't let nobody hurt you
I'll stand by you
 
Jose lost the dressing room and now so has Ralph, hmm, I wonder why.

As the poster above rightly pointed out, RR is a system manager and it takes at least 6 months to get his system going, just like it did with Klopp and Pep (who both made changes to the squad immediately by the way unlike RR). They both also brought in their own preferred coaches, something RR wasn't able to do.

He probably wasn't the best appointment from a short term pov but if we follow his recommendations then the short term pain of missing out on top 4 will be worth it long term.

I think he did sacrifice himself somewhat by not bringing in players in January in case they weren't suitable for the new manager coming in, so hats off to him for that. Every other manager we have had since Fergie spent millions stockpiling deadwood before getting sacked but not RR.

Lastly I think the Greenwood things has cost us top 4, so many dropped points such and Wolves, Watford and Leicester at home where a goal from MG would have made the difference.
 
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