Thomas Tuchel | England Manager

Personally not a fan of his or him but I think he could work with England.

For me, England is in the top 3 or 4 in the world, based on players in the team. Tuchel will carve out the deadwood with ease and hopefully have a hungry dedicated team.

England has to win one of the next two tournaments. This squad is unbelievable on paper. The best striker in Kane, one the the best CAMs in Bellingham (and will only ever get better), Cold Palmer, Foden, Rice, Mainoo, Trent, Walker, Madison ... the list goes on. That depth is unreal. You don't need 11 world class players to win a tournament, you need 1 or 2, lots of depth of good quality hungry players. I think this is where Tuchel will excel.

Let's see.
 
AfonsoAlves said:
When did southgate win 4 league titles and a champions league?
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Well 3* League Titles... all at PSG and Bayern who were on mega streaks when he joined, and both those streaks ended in seasons that he started as manager, the Bundesliga title he has is the biggest gifted trophy in history too.

He should in theory do better then Southgate because he is a better club manager at least... but it'd be almost impossible to get the luck of the draw Southgate has had, which was always going to work against anyone following him for me.
 
The Firestarter said:
I don't know what is more cringe, the headline or the caption above saying it's sport newspaper of the year.
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I don't know. Dave and Mark, sitting in their white van, Daily Mail perched on the dashboard alongside four empty Greggs coffee cups and a dozen paper bags. A light pebbling of sputum on the window to echo back to their previous conversation about their thrilling endeavours to get their missus Caitlyn (they've both got girlfriends called Caitlyn) to finally take it up the arse, and how the wokerati won't even let them be propa English white men in their own faking coun-FACKING ELL LOOK AT THE TITS ON THAT FACKING DAYS- cos they're letting anyone in nowadays innit.

Barely able to spell their names, let alone write "Joiner/Sparky" on the side of their white van, Dave and Mark take solace in the confines of the Mail each day between 10am and 3:30pm on their regular lunch break.
 
Good move for England I think and pleased he’s off the table for United, as I don’t think he’d work here. Looking forward to seeing how he gets on with England’s cheat code squad.
 
pocco said:
I might have missed it, but has anything been said that makes us think he's not/wasn't our number one choice, or is this our way of coping?

The story in the press has been that he is our number one choice, and that we tried to get him in the summer. The only idea that went against that was that he wanted control over transfers and that's why it didn't happen, but everything since points to that being unlikely. He apparently didn't want that at Chelsea, and now he is taking over the England job, where he will have to work with what is available. So, if you read between the lines, the most likely reality is that he turned us down.
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The story in the press was that Southgate was Jim's first choice, I don't think any of us believe that.

It is possible Tuchel turned us down for the England job, but given the reports that we got as far as discussing financials, and considering he's halving his salary from Bayern with England, we can't have been offering him very much.

Seems fairly clear to me that we were a long way from all in on him, and saw him as the best of what was available rather than the man.
 
Kwabs said:
I feel similarly, actually. The Champions League that he flukily won with Chelsea does a LOT of heavy lifting in his resume. Otherwise it's mostly domestic stuff with teams that always win, like PSG and Bayern.
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Saying that win was a fluke is one of the worst takes I've ever seen.
 
Zen said:
Well 3* League Titles... all at PSG and Bayern who were on mega streaks when he joined, and both those streaks ended in seasons that he started as manager, the Bundesliga title he has is the biggest gifted trophy in history too.

He should in theory do better then Southgate because he is a better club manager at least... but it'd be almost impossible to get the luck of the draw Southgate has had, which was always going to work against anyone following him for me.
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PSGs "mega streak" of one season.
 
Tuchel's record in cup football is very impressive and to the extent that anything at club level is likely to be predictive of international management, its cup football much more than league results. At one point he was on a run with PSG/Chelsea where he made the final in seven out of nine cup competitions, including the CL final twice. He is also hugely respected by other top managers as a tactician. It's another case where it pays to actually listen to what the top people in the game say about a player or manager, rather than just cooking up your own half cocked opinion to suit whatever agenda.

Tuchel also has the standing in the game and the faith in his own abilities to drop anybody who he believes needs dropping. He will pick a maximum of two out of Bellingham/Foden/Palmer - maybe even only one of them at times - rather than trying to shoehorn all three into the side. He has a good relationship with Kane but he'll drop him for Watkins if he feels that he needs a striker who can run the channels to win a match. Everybody will need to earn their place and that's how it should be.

He's the best appointment England could have realistically made if they're trying to maximize their odds of actually winning something. Southgate had golden luck with draws but his sides always looked badly second best whenever they actually ran across a good opponent. Tuchel will not have that problem. You need a lot of luck to win a tournament so he might fall short. But he'll have his side prepared to compete with anybody.
 
Analysing his club record is meaningless, Tuchel's CV is much better than most int'l managers including his predecessor. He's more effective than Martinez, Deschamps, Mancini, etc at club level, but it may not transfer over seamlessly to int'l football due to time constraints. The issue is his prickly character and man management, him & Conte's handshake scuffle is a good example and in their statements to the FA Tuchel admitted he was the one who didn't let go of Conte because he was upset Conte didn't look him in the eye. It takes very little to set him off (IIRC he once made Emre Mor bearcrawl around the pitch as punishment), if he feels you've disrespected him it's a long way back.

The FA presumably know about his prickly personality because they gave Tuchel a ban for the scuffle but not Conte, and they've presumably spoken to those at Chelsea who've worked with him. Wonder if Kane was consulted on his opinions of Tuchel at Bayern, it would be a wise move to select someone the captain regards highly of but who knows how the English FA works.

Ultimately there's no candidate who's perfect in every aspect and so long as Tuchel is hungry and motivated to be one of the rare few who've won both a CL and WC/EC, it's worthwhile appointment. He has a point to prove post-Bayern and he cannot fail, he knows that.
 
Isn't it a bit hypocriticalist to hire a german to defeat german in the final?
 
tenpoless said:
Isn't it a bit hypocriticalist to hire a german to defeat german in the final?
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He's one of those who's snarky to other Germans because he thinks he's smarter or better. He's actually nicer to the English press than the German media because he's in a foreign country he likes and feels the need to be polite, let's see how he reacts if the Daily Mail and other gutter rags start sifting through his trashbin for gossip content :lol:
 
lexisonfire said:
Analysing his club record is meaningless, Tuchel's CV is much better than most int'l managers including his predecessor. He's more effective than Martinez, Deschamps, Mancini, etc at club level, but it may not transfer over seamlessly to int'l football
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Deschamps has a very decent club record, reaching the CL final with that bang average Monaco side is more impressive than winning it with Chelsea in 21
 
Mr Pigeon said:
I don't know. Dave and Mark, sitting in their white van, Daily Mail perched on the dashboard alongside four empty Greggs coffee cups and a dozen paper bags. A light pebbling of sputum on the window to echo back to their previous conversation about their thrilling endeavours to get their missus Caitlyn (they've both got girlfriends called Caitlyn) to finally take it up the arse, and how the wokerati won't even let them be propa English white men in their own faking coun-FACKING ELL LOOK AT THE TITS ON THAT FACKING DAYS- cos they're letting anyone in nowadays innit.

Barely able to spell their names, let alone write "Joiner/Sparky" on the side of their white van, Dave and Mark take solace in the confines of the Mail each day between 10am and 3:30pm on their regular lunch break.
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:lol:
 
The Daily rag came up with some unbelievable articles.

Here's a sample from columnist:
How can a foreigner urge Englishmen to do or die on football's battlefield? Could a Swede, an Italian or a German have roused the troops like King Henry V when he implored his men: ‘On, on unto the breach dear friends or let close the wall up with our English dead.’ Sometimes when all else fails, only passion can save the day.
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And of course, the dog whistle:
‘Little Englander’ I hear the merchants of woke cry. No, this is how is should be for every country in the world, that’s why we call them national teams.

Not only the manager and players but everybody involved, right down to the kit man, should be English. So it should be with every football nation, large or small.
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Kwabs said:
I feel similarly, actually. The Champions League that he flukily won with Chelsea does a LOT of heavy lifting in his resume. Otherwise it's mostly domestic stuff with teams that always win, like PSG and Bayern.
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Wouldn’t say they flukily beat city in the final. He outsmarted pep and won.
 
Kwabs said:
I feel similarly, actually. The Champions League that he flukily won with Chelsea does a LOT of heavy lifting in his resume. Otherwise it's mostly domestic stuff with teams that always win, like PSG and Bayern.
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He managed Mainz to the best season in their history, he got a points total with Dortmund that would have won 49 out of the previous 52 Bundesliga seasons, they were just against Pep’s Bayern. So there is a reason why he got those jobs.
 
I have to say that my initial reaction on hearing this was one of disappointment. Not for England, but for United.

Tuchel is one of a few elite coaches available at the moment and he is significantly better than Ten Hag, that is certain.
So United has missed out on him again.

But for England, he will be be quite different to Southgate and time will tell if he is the right appointment.
 
As much as it is a great appointment, I do find it strange that a big footballing nation like England can't muster up a good enough English manager.

Sucks for United too
 
Is a very familiar damning indictment of English football that we can’t find an English coach is able to take this group of players on. For me, that’s the point of international football, it’s ones players, coaches, etc vs another.

However, I do understand the appointment from the FA. They perceive this crop of players as one that has the potential to compete for the biggest honours in the international game and want someone with the clout to take them there, which the likes of Howe, Potter and the likes don’t while Tuchel clearly does.
 
Mr Pigeon said:
I don't know. Dave and Mark, sitting in their white van, Daily Mail perched on the dashboard alongside four empty Greggs coffee cups and a dozen paper bags. A light pebbling of sputum on the window to echo back to their previous conversation about their thrilling endeavours to get their missus Caitlyn (they've both got girlfriends called Caitlyn) to finally take it up the arse, and how the wokerati won't even let them be propa English white men in their own faking coun-FACKING ELL LOOK AT THE TITS ON THAT FACKING DAYS- cos they're letting anyone in nowadays innit.

Barely able to spell their names, let alone write "Joiner/Sparky" on the side of their white van, Dave and Mark take solace in the confines of the Mail each day between 10am and 3:30pm on their regular lunch break.
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Have you been bugging my conversations?
 
siw2007 said:
Is a very familiar damning indictment of English football that we can’t find an English coach is able to take this group of players on. For me, that’s the point of international football, it’s ones players, coaches, etc vs another.

However, I do understand the appointment from the FA. They perceive this crop of players as one that has the potential to compete for the biggest honours in the international game and want someone with the clout to take them there, which the likes of Howe, Potter and the likes don’t while Tuchel clearly does.
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Howe and Potter could do a good job for England, and both are better than Southgate. Tuchel is the best appointment we could have made, but even great tournament coaches like him could lose to a bad decision, an offside goal or whatever, so I don't see the point in going so big on the coach. Look at Nagelsmann; he is doing a great job with Germany, but they were out of the Euros fast.
Buster15 said:
Definitely.
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From Erik, who cannot set up a team properly, to Tuchel, who is only second to Pep on that front, I'd have been quite sure of getting in the top four, even after this start, with Tuchel as coach. I do not see the benefit of taking another year out of the UCL while we wait for 'the ideal candidate' to emerge.

What's the worst that could happen with Tuchel? I'd say the worst would be this and next season, both with UCL, but a probable fall-out by Summer 2026. I'd bite his hand off for that!
 
Dancfc said:
Saying that win was a fluke is one of the worst takes I've ever seen.
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Absolutely. Fluking a win would imply we had lots of luck on our side but we were comfortably the better side in each and every game of that UCL campaign all the way from the group stages (under Lampard) to the final.

And it's not like our team only performed in Europe either, because from the day Tuchel got appointed till the end of the 20/21 season we gained the 2nd most points in the EPL after only Man City, and had hands down the best defensive record in the league over that period of time as well.
 
duffer said:
The Daily Mail being utter cnuts? Who would have thought it.
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Über* cnuts. Get with the times, boy.
Dancfc said:
Saying that win was a fluke is one of the worst takes I've ever seen.
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Yes well you would say that wouldn't you.
DJ_21 said:
Wouldn’t say they flukily beat city in the final. He outsmarted pep and won.
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He was quite lucky to come across a Pep who was still in his "I have to outsmart myself and then try to outsmart that guy who outsmarted me" phase, while at the same time being entirely moronic in repeating the same issues within a few weeks.
 
A German managing England. That's going to go over with the old guard like a turd in a punchbowl.
 
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