I think the uncertainty of what has been happening with Chelsea has kind of scuppered their season towards the end, I expect Tuchel and Chelsea to be better in the league next season, hopefully not, but think the new owners will make some investment and they'll be back fighting
Thomas Tuchel | Gone to & from Bayern (In Summer)
- Thread starter Bastian
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Poch took over PSG a point behind Lille with 21 games to go. He finished the season a point behind Lille. You can't spin that to absolve the love of your life. He had 21 games to overcome a 1 point deficit to a far inferior team and failed.
We've lost key players for significant time and had an unprecedented crisis upstairs.
You may say excuse but one of those teams so far ahead (your words) only had to deal with one of those issues last season and instantly fell to our current level.
Compare the point between tuchel and the point between poch and if tuchel had better results then you are right
. No spinning, it is just fact. The blame lies mostly on tuchel because poch was just getting into the job and getting acclimated to the environment. Not sure what is so hard to understand about such an easy conceptsCompare the point between tuchel and the point between poch and if tuchel had better results then you are right
Ah, okay. I see your game. You want to add context and excuses to absolve your guy, but throw all nuance out of the window when you're talking about Tuchel or [insert other managers].
I think the crisis and the effect on the team is overblown. Most teams will also lose key players over the course of the season. Chelsea have a sizeable squad and I think they should have dealt with it better and have had a number of poor results over the course of the season.
That Liverpool season was one of those things that we won’t see for another 3 years
A cycle, if you will.If he is getting top 4 and constantly in the hunt for cups, I don’t think Chelsea will mind at all to be honest, but I can’t see him bridging that gap. I just don’t think he is on the level of the other two and there are plenty of games over the last 18 months that would suggest certain limitations.
I think the crisis and the effect on the team is overblown. Most teams will also lose key players over the course of the season. Chelsea have a sizeable squad and I think they should have dealt with it better and have had a number of poor results over the course of the season.
That Liverpool season was one of those things that we won’t see for another 3 years
If he is getting top 4 and constantly in the hunt for cups, I don’t think Chelsea will mind at all to be honest, but I can’t see him bridging that gap. I just don’t think he is on the level of the other two and there are plenty of games over the last 18 months that would suggest certain limitations.
As far as am concern he is at the same level with them. Having a sizable squad is totally different from having a good squad that implements your plan; case is in point Man Utd. The Pep and Klopp had been working with their squad for yrs and had time to weed out those that doesn't fit with their philosophy.
The way people speak about him you would be thinking he has been at Chelsea for yrs when this was actually his proper first season with this group and you can actually see how frustrated he is with a lot of them that he is speaking of players that were out on loan. He will be making a lot of changes to this team next season if allowed.
Thommy Tuchel, tinkers sometimes a bit too much.
But possible he can adapt.
Pep Guardiola was NOT capable of winning the Premier League in his first full season.
Tuchel had 2.06 ppg in Ligue 1 with PSG
They had a slow start into the season because disappointment from the UCL final and some players not available for pre season (Covid and so on). yeah excuses ofcourse.
Pochettino had 2.24 ppg in Ligue 1 with PSG in that season.
The highest Pochettino had with PSG in Ligue 1 is 2.26ppg
The highest Tuchel had in Ligue 1 with PSG is 2.52 ppg
Tuchel has also a significant higher win ratio in Champions League.
And Poch has an absurd bad win ratio away from home against top6 in PREM.
So Tuchel is a category above Poch. Until POCH proves anything else.
But possible he can adapt.
Pep Guardiola was NOT capable of winning the Premier League in his first full season.
Tuchel had 2.06 ppg in Ligue 1 with PSG
They had a slow start into the season because disappointment from the UCL final and some players not available for pre season (Covid and so on). yeah excuses ofcourse.
Pochettino had 2.24 ppg in Ligue 1 with PSG in that season.
The highest Pochettino had with PSG in Ligue 1 is 2.26ppg
The highest Tuchel had in Ligue 1 with PSG is 2.52 ppg
Tuchel has also a significant higher win ratio in Champions League.
And Poch has an absurd bad win ratio away from home against top6 in PREM.
So Tuchel is a category above Poch. Until POCH proves anything else.
Thing is he’s dropping points due to idiotic rotating and team selections. He’s stopping the team from building momentum.
Chelsea have no rhythm because of this.
And I mean, what’s he rotating for…? Does anyone REALLY think this Chelsea side are going to beat Liverpool in a cup final!?
It’s ludicrous. He’s becoming a bit of a joke.
This guy genuinely seems to be a massive idiot. Have a quality baller like James who has been central to the best games they've had this season going forward and one of the few who can create build up play and he's busy shifting him as a centre back. They had zero build up play today and just kept playing it long.
Early season form will save them for top 4 as since then they've been largely garbage.
Early season form will save them for top 4 as since then they've been largely garbage.
In what multiverse was that?
Said it many times.
Overrated manager.
Overrated manager.
A few more Lukakus hopefully
Their squad is definitely capable of performing in the big games, the consistency is the problem.
If he finds a way to have his attack firing on all cylinders there would be a massive improvement instantly.
If he finds a way to have his attack firing on all cylinders there would be a massive improvement instantly.
First task for the new incoming owners will be replacing this fella.
That‘s the spirit!
I mean, it's a one off game and we've pretty much made a good account of ourselves everytime we've faced Liverpool in recent years.
Consistency wise they're clearly better but we are good match for them on head to heads.
The the idea that Chelsea have no chance of beating Liverpool is what's a joke here to be honest.
It's almost as if people forget we won the UCL less than two months after Allardyce slapped 5 past us.
I still think it’s harsh to judge him too much based on this season given all the circumstances. Let’s see what happens next year.
Yeah I mean I understand Liverpool are clearly favourites but come on, let's not go overboard with this stuff.
The issue over the ownership is a very convenient get out of jail card, it's not like that was happening when they were out of the title race before Christmas
Well thats on you for thinking Chelsea could win the league this season.
We were 6 points off top with 20 games to play on Xmas day.
If you think 6 points behind with less than half the season played is ""out of the race" then ok.
We are good at what we did with our squad. Objectively speaking in stead of talking hyperbole our subs were not the level we required for our style of play especially wingbacks and central midfield.
Kante and kovasic injuries in December January period with COVID too hit them we just not able to sustain the momentum we created. Let alone wingback positions hit by long term injuries around that time.
COVID hit almost our entire team one after another in that period too from attackers to defenders. Thank God we won some 5 games on the trot around March period otherwise we could be in real mud.
We are thankful to tt for this position and we know how bad we could be when he took over and struggled at 9th. He won cl despite this squad not because of the squad.
Compare the point between tuchel and the point between poch and if tuchel had better results then you are right
I already went through this with you on the other thread. Poch lost to teams who finished 16th and 17th and that's why he lost the league. It's got nothing to do with Tuchel.
I already went through this with you before and compare tuchel result and poch result, and you would notice in that season poch did better when he took over from that season. Coming into a different environment as well. And now it is being highlighted at Chelsea how poor tuchel is in the league, which makes it more evident to why psg lost the league under him. Tuchel is a cup manager and as expected, he is doing well in cups. But his league form has been put on the spotlight again. 1 point behind Arsenal is not a good look for tuchel. If it wasn't for his good cup form, I am quite sure if abrahomovic was there, he would be thinking about other managers who could potentially replace him. If he has a season like this again next season, no doubt I see him getting sacked under abrahamovic. Not sure how their new owner is like though.
Where has this cup manager thing even come from? He did fantastic work at Dortmund but was up against a European juggernaut. Won the league in his time in France, as expected, and has been at Chelsea just 1 full season.
That's like Rodgers winning the SPL with Celtic. Winning the CL with Chelsea and reaching all the other finals was a better accomplishment.
I know that, I'm just saying he was hardly expected to win the league with Dortmund and he's been at Chelsea just 1 season, so where has this cup manager thing come from?
He has won more cups than leagues and his teams often performed very well in the biggest games (which is something you need to win cups of course).
I think there is nothing wrong in acknowledging this, as these results have in many seasons been more impressive than the league performances.
I guess a cup manager sort of subtly hints at being a poor league manager. I mean some in here are outright saying he's a poor league manager. Maybe I'm just overly sensitive to this and need to put my phone away
A huge part of their problem must simply be a lack of quality up front? Lukaku is Lukaku, Werner is extremely wasteful, Havertz still really young, Pulisic, CHO and Ziyech too inconsistent. They are missing those genuinely world class forward players that both Liverpool and City have in the likes of Salah, Mane, De Bruyne, Mahrez, etc. Even Spurs have Kane and Son, and we have Ronaldo.
Having said that, they still should be closer to the top than they currently are, but a lot of it is down to their big bets in attack now paying off.
Having said that, they still should be closer to the top than they currently are, but a lot of it is down to their big bets in attack now paying off.
He has a 50% better title success rate than 2 of his 3 predecessors and his successor.
Funny how quite a few on this board would have been quite happy to have him as Utd manager not 6 weeks ago. some fans are very fickle
MaybeI guess a cup manager sort of subtly hints at being a poor league manager. I mean some in here are outright saying he's a poor league manager. Maybe I'm just overly sensitive to this and need to put my phone away
I don't think everyone sees it the same way, if it is criticism or praise to call someone a cup manager.
For me it is a bit mixed, let's just say to win the PL I'd sign Pep, but to win the CL I'd prefer Tuchel.
Same as Alex Ferguson, Guardiola, and Mourinho.
I can't think of many top managers who have more leagues than cups.
That is just highly probable statistically as there are more cup than league competitions.
But for example Pep’s shortcomings in the CL have been discussed to great lengths recently, while essentially no one would discuss this for Tuchel, who has never really disappointed in that competition.