Television Tho Prop Grops Throps

In Jericho's book (the second one), he praises Rock for about a page non-stop, so he can't be all bad. I suppose it'd be fairer to say that I don't like how Rock is used by the WWE writers.

As for Undertaker, I think this Wrestlemania match needs to be somebody big. I can't see him being able to do another one, so one final match to make it 20-0, and then retirement. I say 20 because I think he'll retire undefeated at Wrestlemania.
 
Can we all focus on the 2 most important thing from the PPV here please;

Sin Cara, botch or work?
Big Show delivery an arm drag AND an elbow drop from the top rope.
 
I don't think the Sin Cara thing was a work, the whole "sin cara has been disqualified" basically screamed "get on with the match without him you pricks" to the other wrestlers.
 
Wow ok, just watched it all and read through the comments here.

I rate Ziggler highly and hope he drops the USC to Ryder so that he can march in the Heavyweight title picture.

I agree with Cena needing to turn heel. He's really just pissing me off at the moment with his constant pandering to the crowd even though he gets booed night in night out. They should've done it yesterday but they wouldn't dream of burying The Rock so I really hope they do it tonight on Raw.

Also... Rock has a foul mouth if you can lip read! There was a lot of 'punk ass bitch' talk which I thought was quite funny and he actually cut a very non-PG promo after the cameras went out. Rocky does need new material, his promos haven't been the same, but if Cena turns heel hopefully he'll have some ammo.

I was actually impressed with Rock's in-ring work. Only one slight botch with one of the leg takedowns but other than that he looked sharp.
 
FreakyJim said:
I didn't know they mean the nonsense they spout. Always thought it's rather tongue in cheek and they're sticking to a scripted story line.
But I guess The Rock really is a dick. Shame.
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Someone like The Rock is generally free to say whatever he likes, I'd like to think his promos aren't scripted because if they are the person scripting them should be fired instantly.

Zen said:
Actually the smarks are all pretty much tired of it already and have been since he made it abundantly clear he doesn't really have a great deal of material from like third promo months ago.

But still a tired and one track Rock.....is still kind of entertaining, whereas nothing else seems to be, I watched a Raw repeat earlier today and it's a shame they've already killed off what steam CM Punk had built up.

The Rock might be a dick, I don't know....but in the wrestling industry, he's far from it, he's put everyone he needed to over and more(no doubt he'll let Cena beat him clean at WM, not that Cena needs it.), he's never hogged the title or got stroppy when he had to drop it, one of the very few true top tier elite wrestlers to have stayed clean or at least not juiced to the heavens to the point where he's beating up his spouse and shit. And almost everyone praises his work ethic and how easy he is to work with.

Vince just needs to milk him as much as he can while he's doing this little run until WM.
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It sure didn't seem that way in MSG last night.

Those things about the Rock might be true but he's still an egotistical dick and it shines through, through all of his pompous promos.
Basically I think The Rock thinks he's that much better than everyone and he isn't.

A few months ago he said one of the worse things I've ever heard.
When having a go at Cena (who was having a go at him for going Hollywood) he suggested that he paved the way for Wrestlers to become Actors as if that's how it should be, like it's some sort of stepping stone.
Like WWE is Bradford and being a Hollywood actor is Barcelona, it was all very appalling to hear from someone who at first is supposed to be a Wrestler and who claims to love the business.
Yet he thinks being a Hollywood actor is a greater privilege than being a Wrestler, now outside the Wrestling world that may be the case but inside? feck no.
 
101 said:
Oh and Sin Cara's out for 6-9 months, he ruptured a tendon in the patella.

Two matches all but confirmed for TLC:
Big Show vs. Mark Henry
HHH vs. Kevin Nash
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There's also one more that one of the local commercials in Baltimore managed to spoil last week while advertising the TLC event for ticket purchases, though it's now obvious due to certain clauses.

Del Rio gets his rematch for the WWE title.

Also do we really have to ask if Sin Cara's was a botch or not? It's Sin Cara.
 
gormless said:
Y2J. And theres still vague talk of Brock or even Batista
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Y2J's said a few days ago that he'll never wrestle for the WWE again, Brock Lesnar is highly unlikely, Jim Ross basically said that won't be happening, and Batista, not sure how much they could build that up given that he already lost in 2007. At the moment I'd say HHH again is most likely.
Minkaro said:
As for Undertaker, I think this Wrestlemania match needs to be somebody big. I can't see him being able to do another one, so one final match to make it 20-0, and then retirement. I say 20 because I think he'll retire undefeated at Wrestlemania.
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If it's his last one though, there's no real reason to keep him undefeated. This year, last year, the year before, it was good for business to keep him undefeated because then you can hype up the next one, but when it's his last one? Wouldn't surprise me if someone else went over him.
 
Leroy The Red said:
Someone like The Rock is generally free to say whatever he likes, I'd like to think his promos aren't scripted because if they are the person scripting them should be fired instantly.



It sure didn't seem that way in MSG last night.

Those things about the Rock might be true but he's still an egotistical dick and it shines through, through all of his pompous promos.
Basically I think The Rock thinks he's that much better than everyone and he isn't.

A few months ago he said one of the worse things I've ever heard.
When having a go at Cena (who was having a go at him for going Hollywood) he suggested that he paved the way for Wrestlers to become Actors as if that's how it should be, like it's some sort of stepping stone.
Like WWE is Bradford and being a Hollywood actor is Barcelona, it was all very appalling to hear from someone who at first is supposed to be a Wrestler and who claims to love the business.
Yet he thinks being a Hollywood actor is a greater privilege than being a Wrestler, now outside the Wrestling world that may be the case but inside? feck no.
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You are taking the Rock's character way to seriously. He's talking trash to sell a main event fued FFS. He's not being himself. He playing his chracter and gimmick.

Next you will be wondering if the Taker really is undead.
 
101 said:
Ole'sbodyguard, I'm liking your posts but I can't take it anymore, it's feud!

Also how about Kane vs. Undertaker?
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I believe Taker said he'd have liked Kane to take the streak if anyone was ever going to, but I think the impact of that has petered out too much now. Probably be a big name with Taker going over.
 
IMO, with the way Kane was acting before he was put out, with the whole 'I'm feeling human and less like a machine' they should show a segment with him refitting the mask on his face with something along the lines of 'I'm back.' Have him turn heel. Then set it up perfectly against Taker for WM.
 
Ole'sbodyguard said:
You are taking the Rock's character way to seriously. He's talking trash to sell a main event fued FFS. He's not being himself. He playing his chracter and gimmick.

Next you will be wondering if the Taker really is undead.
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If he really was that big of an asshole, I don't know how long he would've been with the company. By most accounts a lot of the top guys during the Attitude Era were standup guys backstage (Stone Cold, Undertaker, etc) and Dwayne Johnson was no exception.

But I think Leroy is right that his character is definitely sticking out, especially in a PG era and especially while WWE is doing it's little Don't Be a Bully Be a Star campaign. It's borderline uncomfortable at this stage watching Rock bully Cena around, regardless of how you feel about Cena. If they're trying to make Rocky the heel, it's not working. Cena isn't Eugene, and pitying him isn't going to put him over. This is just going to make us sick of both of them if they keep going with this route.
 
jveezy said:
If he really was that big of an asshole, I don't know how long he would've been with the company. By most accounts a lot of the top guys during the Attitude Era were standup guys backstage (Stone Cold, Undertaker, etc) and Dwayne Johnson was no exception.

But I think Leroy is right that his character is definitely sticking out, especially in a PG era and especially while WWE is doing it's little Don't Be a Bully Be a Star campaign. It's borderline uncomfortable at this stage watching Rock bully Cena around, regardless of how you feel about Cena. If they're trying to make Rocky the heel, it's not working. Cena isn't Eugene, and pitying him isn't going to put him over. This is just going to make us sick of both of them if they keep going with this route.
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This. I'm a massive Rock fan, and downloaded Survivor Series solely to watch that match, and whilst I was enjoying the match itself, the ending was just cringe. I'm no fan of Cena, but I felt genuinely sorry for the bloke. From being the forefront of the WWE for a number of years, to be mocked like that, must be quite painful for the man to stomach - even if they do let him win at WrestleMania. The Rock's character has always had that arrogant streak, but never to the extent to which it reared itself tonight. It's not a good look for a face character IMO, even if we are talking about The Rock here.
 
Stone Cold isn't that much of a "standup guy".....Wouldn't hand the title over easily, and rarely put over talent, in fact he just didn't show up when he was asked to put over Eddie once on Raw, and Vince rightfully crushed live on TV which was a genius move, albeit it was at a time when Austin was near his peak, so obviously didn't seem like it.

Rock and Taker are pretty rare for being from the 90's and before and actually being good all round workers backstage and in the ring, maybe throw in Sting too and Mick Foley, but he was never truly a top tier guy.
 
kietotheworld said:
Y2J's said a few days ago that he'll never wrestle for the WWE again, Brock Lesnar is highly unlikely, Jim Ross basically said that won't be happening, and Batista, not sure how much they could build that up given that he already lost in 2007. At the moment I'd say HHH again is most likely.
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I think Jericho saying that was tongue in cheek, as he ended the tweet with, "and in the world of dancing..." Still think he'll be back
 
101 said:
Ole'sbodyguard, I'm liking your posts but I can't take it anymore, it's feud!

Also how about Kane vs. Undertaker?
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It's been done before and not a big enough match now. Taker's match at mania have been MOTY contenders for the last three years.

The most likely match for Taker is a HHH rematch and he will win that one as well.

Taker's reward for being the leader of the locker room and loyal to the company for over 20 years is being the headline act every Wrestlemania. He's never going to lose that streak. It's his legacy. He's not won as many titles as some, he's arguably never been the biggest draw in the company and there's probably always been a better wrestler than him in the company but he's going to be remain undefeated at WM for the entirety of his career.
 
Just finished watching last nights PPV... so I can finally get into this thread!

Survivour Series was the perfect example of an decent show being made into a good one... there was nothing overly bad on the card (the fantastic top-rope Glam Slam saved the women's match, and the Big Show/Henry match had some decent spots), the booking was generally solid (Barrett/Rhodes over Orton, Punk title change to give him back his summer momentum) and all in all it had some decent wrestling, with excellent crowd reactions... though at the same time, none of the matches were anything 'Great'. Think the Elimination match was probably the most disappointing, but then I'm never a huge fan of traditional SS tag matches anyway.

As for Rock and Cena... well, incredibly for what is a Cena fued, I think John is actually starting to look a bit weak... Seems as if the Rock consistantly bests him/one-ups him, and on a night where The Rock was clearly going to have the majority of the audience behind him, I think it would have been a good move to have Cena get the last laugh... still, Cena will (and probably should) win at Mania, so I can't complain too hard.

Finally... it's great that their seemingly giving Barrett a big push... him and Sheamus need to have a long fued very soon.
 
Back onto the discussion about Cena and the Rock.

My thoughts on this angle are as follows. I don't understand why everyone suddenly feels sorry for John Cena because he was booked to look weak last night. Survivor Series had a hot crowd and was a ratings draw simply because the Rock was back in a WWE ring about seven years. It was booked the way the majority of the buyers wanted it. The Rock going over Truth/Miz and also being dominant over Cena. Cena's held multiple titles over the last six years and has as good a PPV win record as anyone on the roster. He's not suddenly been reduced to the status of the Brooklyn Brawler because the Rock was booked strong in SS.

I think they are setting him up for a heel turn which will breathe fresh life into his character and that you will see him come back strong over the next few weeks and months. It's what naturally should happen when the crowd are not buying him as a face. I have a measure of sympathy for Cena's character having to continue with a face run when he attracts more heat than most heels. It's time to turn him. The Rock is going to stay face and Cena is going to continue to attract the same reactions in every venue.

The angle is being booked with the Rock talking trash about all the problems Cena has had over the last 4 years. If Cena turns, and let's face it, it is long overdue, it's perfect. The Rock's promo on Cena about men not liking him and the people not liking him was vintage Rock. There's no one better on the Mic and Punk is the only current superstar who is close.

The Rock might be cutting none PG promos but seriously how do you expect the Rock to be booked? He's a major draw because he was the one of the unique and leading characters of the attitude era and is a completely different to Cena. If they brought him back diluted it would be pointless. I want him on the mike talking trash and taking the piss. His character has always had a measure of arrogance and mocking. That's what makes him a good character and why he could switch from heel to face with ease in his day like Jericho and Christian good. Classic Tweeners.

The WWE have to have some kind of rivarly between Rock and Cena and they also have to convince the audience that they don't like each other. All the Wrestlemania stuff and promos is just a glider into what we see now and that means eventually one of them has to take a pounding. It was Cena's turn last night. How boring would it have been if they had finished the PPV with a face/face handshake. We actually want this angle to mean something and not be a stereotype of what has gone before.

The WWE now have to build Cena back up as a threat to the Rock and that's why I'd guess he will have a measure of revenge tonight. Cena's still not to badly damaged, you don't win as often on PPVS as he has to suddenly become weak just because he got his ass handed to him on a PPV. He's hardly going to be booked as a whipping boy for the mania main event. If they keep him a face though he will continue to be panned by the crowd.
 
Ole'sbodyguard said:
Back onto the discussion about Cena and the Rock.

My thoughts on this angle are as follows. I don't understand why everyone suddenly feels sorry for John Cena because he was booked to look weak last night. Survivor Series had a hot crowd and was a ratings draw simply because the Rock was back in a WWE ring about seven years. It was booked the way the majority of the buyers wanted it. The Rock going over Truth/Miz and also being dominant over Cena. Cena's held multiple titles over the last six years and has as good a PPV win record as anyone on the roster. He's not suddenly been reduced to the status of the Brooklyn Brawler because the Rock was booked strong in SS.

I think they are setting him up for a heel turn which will breathe fresh life into his character and that you will see him come back strong over the next few weeks and months. It's what naturally should happen when the crowd are not buying him as a face. I have a measure of sympathy for Cena's character having to continue with a face run when he attracts more heat than most heels. It's time to turn him. The Rock is going to stay face and Cena is going to continue to attract the same reactions in every venue.

The angle is being booked with the Rock talking trash about all the problems Cena has had over the last 4 years. If Cena turns, and let's face it, it is long overdue, it's perfect. The Rock's promo on Cena about men not liking him and the people not liking him was vintage Rock. There's no one better on the Mic and Punk is the only current superstar who is close.

The Rock might be cutting none PG promos but seriously how do you expect the Rock to be booked? He's a major draw because he was the one of the unique and leading characters of the attitude era and is a completely different to Cena. If they brought him back diluted it would be pointless. I want him on the mike talking trash and taking the piss. His character has always had a measure of arrogance and mocking. That's what makes him a good character and why he could switch from heel to face with ease in his day like Jericho and Christian good. Classic Tweeners.

The WWE have to have some kind of rivarly between Rock and Cena and they also have to convince the audience that they don't like each other. All the Wrestlemania stuff and promos is just a glider into what we see now and that means eventually one of them has to take a pounding. It was Cena's turn last night. How boring would it have been if they had finished the PPV with a face/face handshake. We actually want this angle to mean something and not be a stereotype of what has gone before.

The WWE now have to build Cena back up as a threat to the Rock and that's why I'd guess he will have a measure of revenge tonight. Cena's still not to badly damaged, you don't win as often on PPVS as he has to suddenly become weak just because he got his ass handed to him on a PPV. He's hardly going to be booked as a whipping boy for the mania main event. If they keep him a face though he will continue to be panned by the crowd.
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Well all is forgiven from me if the turn happens soon. I think a lot of us were expecting it last night, but it didn't happen. It isn't that he was booked to look weak. It's that he was booked to look awful, and we're not dumb enough to believe that he's all of a sudden awful since he's been destroying Miz and Truth on his own without The Rock the last couple weeks (also a failure in booking). They've kind of painted themselves into a corner with the way Cena's been booked the last couple of years, because they've turned him into Superman and made it so any significant downgrade from Superman is no longer believable.

In the buildup to the last Wrestlemania they did a perfectly decent job of booking Rock and Cena against each other without making it completely one-sided. Rock going non-PG is just fine. That's not a big deal. Cena being allowed to fire back and hold his own made it so. This time around having Cena look like a chump makes Rock look like a bigger bully than a tweener would be. It just seems like overkill.
 
Ole'sbodyguard said:
You are taking the Rock's character way to seriously. He's talking trash to sell a main event fued FFS. He's not being himself. He playing his chracter and gimmick.

Next you will be wondering if the Taker really is undead.
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Nah not really.

jveezy said:
If he really was that big of an asshole, I don't know how long he would've been with the company. By most accounts a lot of the top guys during the Attitude Era were standup guys backstage (Stone Cold, Undertaker, etc) and Dwayne Johnson was no exception.

But I think Leroy is right that his character is definitely sticking out, especially in a PG era and especially while WWE is doing it's little Don't Be a Bully Be a Star campaign. It's borderline uncomfortable at this stage watching Rock bully Cena around, regardless of how you feel about Cena. If they're trying to make Rocky the heel, it's not working. Cena isn't Eugene, and pitying him isn't going to put him over. This is just going to make us sick of both of them if they keep going with this route.
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That's just it, during the attitude era, back then, with guys like Austin, Taker and Triple H, The Rock couldn't bring this "I'm better than all of you" attitude.
He wasn't a Hollywood actor back then so I wouldn't have expected him to stroll around the dressing room like some god.

CM Punk said this about Dwayne "He's not around. It doesn't help morale when the guy goes right from his limo to the dressing room to the dressing room to the ring. He's very bourgeois Hollywood."

Hollywood has changed him, it's turned him into an arsehole and Ole you can defend him to high heaven about how he's "in character" but with certain guys even in character the true personality shines through.
CM Punk, Randy Orton and John Cena play characters but from what we hear on the "inside" these characters are exactly how these individuals are in real life.
The Rock isn't on Hogan or Kurt Angle levels of extreme arrogance and obnoxiousness but he's closing in.
 
I think the 2012 promo, and the Kane promo are actually meant to be separate.
 
Leroy The Red said:
That's just it, during the attitude era, back then, with guys like Austin, Taker and Triple H, The Rock couldn't bring this "I'm better than all of you" attitude.
He wasn't a Hollywood actor back then so I wouldn't have expected him to stroll around the dressing room like some god.

CM Punk said this about Dwayne "He's not around. It doesn't help morale when the guy goes right from his limo to the dressing room to the dressing room to the ring. He's very bourgeois Hollywood."

Hollywood has changed him, it's turned him into an arsehole and Ole you can defend him to high heaven about how he's "in character" but with certain guys even in character the true personality shines through.
CM Punk, Randy Orton and John Cena play characters but from what we hear on the "inside" these characters are exactly how these individuals are in real life.
The Rock isn't on Hogan or Kurt Angle levels of extreme arrogance and obnoxiousness but he's closing in.
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I just read CM Punk's comments on The Rock... intersting stuff. You always get the impression from interviews/ talk shows etc. that The Rock is a good guy... so this flies in the face of that a fair bit.

Still, I wonder if it's a situation in which The Rock couldn't win... Say for instance, everytime he showed up he was overly friendly with everyone in the locker room, would Punk then be saying "He comes back here once every blue moon and pretends like he's everyone's best friend... clearly he has a high opinion of himself" or something to that effect.

Obviously he should say hi to these guys in the halls and have some interaction with them backstage, but yeah... wonder if he'd get criticised whatever he did?
 
R truth has been suspended for 30 days.

That explains the end of Raw last night then.
 
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