I'm not overly criticizing him, dude went with what was thrown at him, and it's not like he was Roman-bad in the ring either, while he could also clearly promo. But I am criticizing the over push of him as an ultra babyface, and as proven by the past, I dunno, 10-15 years since that, it's been proven that that in fact was not was needed to attract and also, more importantly, retain viewers at all.
Television Tho Prop Grops Throps
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I'm not overly criticizing him, dude went with what was thrown at him, and it's not like he was Roman-bad in the ring either, while he could also clearly promo. But I am criticizing the over push of him as an ultra babyface, and as proven by the past, I dunno, 10-15 years since that, it's been proven that that in fact was not was needed to attract and also, more importantly, retain viewers at all.
Wouldv made a lot more sense had drew been the one tossing punk out rather than LP
I mean the world titles were never workrate titles. That's what the intercontinental and to an extent the US is/was for. Great example last year's mania night 2 main event was a classic, but not because of the wrestling work rate. Mankind winning the title is a massive moment, not because he put on a wrestling clinic before hand. Wrestling is a soap opera and it's a fantastic story, that's it. He's Jeff Hardy 2008 over right now with the crowd so he's getting the push.
If you want to see wrestlers put on good matches and nothing else, AEW is probably perfect for you, WWE is not.
It's different when you're a Hollywood actor though isn't it? Your schedule never really aligns, and if you get injured and can't work, you actually risk putting a lot of people out of a job. So I can easily see John Cena retiring fully, in ring. And also, his attire at his age is a little tragic.
Anywho, I hope Cena becomes a ruthless tweener (not quite heel, don't think they'd go that far) and faces Cody at mania. I hope at mania we get a double turn.
Thought the Bloodline hunter gimmick was a great idea to lead to something, but yeah maybe theyve overbooked themselves having all these top guys intertwined
Yeah I'm sure the company have analysts on who's hot over an extended period for merch and ticket sales and he's up there. He gets bums on seats, even if I have no idea how. I never liked the yeet thing. Don't even know what it means because it's used in so many different contexts
We'll see I guess. But given that I can't think of anyone off the top of my head, outside of serious health reasons* aside, sticking to their retirement in combat sports... the jurys out for me. But.... good lord, do I agree with that attire, last night was utterly horrific, dude came out looking like somewhat had to pick out clothes from the lost and found for a P.E/Gym class. What the hell, no colour co-ordination or anything... and that sock/trainer combo... good lord.
*=or ducking. I'm looking at you Lennox Lewis.
Couple points that I don't think beens discussed.
Bliss had one of the loudest pops I've ever heard, has there ever been louder for a woman? Think it beats Becky at summerslam, so unless Im missing one really obvious one?
Also, pentas feet touched the floor
Bliss had one of the loudest pops I've ever heard, has there ever been louder for a woman? Think it beats Becky at summerslam, so unless Im missing one really obvious one?
Also, pentas feet touched the floor
Think Batista is another who'll stay retired for similar reasons, but also he's taking acting really seriously. He's lost all his muscle mass in the hope it gets him different sort of roles.We'll see I guess. But given that I can't think of anyone off the top of my head, outside of serious health reasons* aside, sticking to their retirement in combat sports... the jurys out for me. But.... good lord, do I agree with that attire, last night was utterly horrific, dude came out looking like somewhat had to pick out clothes from the lost and found for a P.E/Gym class. What the hell, no colour co-ordination or anything... and that sock/trainer combo... good lord.
*=or ducking. I'm looking at you Lennox Lewis.
I clocked it last year, the hair, the bald spot. It's all very down with the kids, and he's probably very conscious and aware of the fact he looks ridiculous
Couple points that I don't think beens discussed.
Bliss had one of the loudest pops I've ever heard, has there ever been louder for a woman? Think it beats Becky at summerslam, so unless Im missing one really obvious one?
Also, pentas feet touched the floor
Yeah that pop was great. Camera fecked up by panning away when she was showing off the jacket.
The lack of replay for Penta's botch was the dead giveaway
I like Penta a lot so hopefully this doesn't hurt himIt’s one thing AEW do a lot is assume you know everything about a guy they’ve brought in, I knew nothing of Penta but they’ve showcased him as a star so far
Feel like everyone collectively has agreed to ignore that like it never happenedYeah that pop was great. Camera fecked up by panning away when she was showing off the jacket.
The lack of replay for Penta's botch was the dead giveaway
It was a pretty incredible popCouple points that I don't think beens discussed.
Bliss had one of the loudest pops I've ever heard, has there ever been louder for a woman? Think it beats Becky at summerslam, so unless Im missing one really obvious one?
Also, pentas feet touched the floor
You cannot agree with it but a lot of it is just stating facts. Not being harsh when I say some of the stuff you've said here is well wide of the mark.
WWE wanted to move away from the ruthless aggression era and wanted a more Pg product. That can’t be denied. This was reflective in the crowds they were drawing at live events. The fact there was a portion of the fanbase (mostly online) clamouring for the antihero bad guy doesn’t mean that’s what WWE was looking for from a business perspective. WWE was less bothered about ratings during this period and more concerned with sponsors, merch and how many tickets they were selling. Wrestling had past its boom period.
Im not sure how Punk was an antihero. What part of his gimmick was anti hero? He was literally straight edge. He might not have necessarily been in the Cena/Hogan type but he was way closer to them than Austin, NWO, Rock etc:
Go back and look at Punks reign as a major face. Yes he went up against authority but that doesn’t automatically make you a ‘good bad guy’.
You’re talking like the face of the company currently isn’t Cody Rhodes also (a massive Superman type figure)
That's one hell of a stretch that. CM Punk who didnt wrestle a match anywhere between 2013 and 2021 laid the groundwork for AEW forming in 2019 and the current interest in professional wrestling? Nah, I dont think so...
A lot of this is just wild, speculative and actually not the truth.
This site gives some fairly solid data analysis - https://wrestlenomics.com/tv-rating...f-wwf-wwe-monday-night-raw-ratings-1993-2024/
Pay attention to between 2005-2009 (Cenas boom period) and 2011-2013 (CM Punks period). None of what you've suggested here is reflecting in the figures. The 18-49 demographic that you're implying were driven away actually decreased in viewership numbers for the period after Punks pipe bomb and subsequent title reign which is why during that period Punk was relegated to not being in the main event.
Some further ratings data...
https://www.gerweck.net/tv-ratings/2009-ratings/
https://www.gerweck.net/tv-ratings/2012-tv-ratings/
Yeah this isn't a thing either. It's been up and down the last ten years post Cena. Peaked in 2019 but there's been periods during the last ten years were viewership was much lower than it was during Cena's era.
I think you're speaking for yourself here and others like you who obviously disliked the product massively during the Cena era but don't make go making the mistake of thinking that was a stance everybody took. There's a reason WWE stuck with Cena during that period and it certainly wasn't because he was "driving people away".
WWE is doing very well at the minute in terms of mainstream publicity but don't be fooled into thinking we're seeing ground breaking ratings/interest or something. Their gate receipts are record breaking because they're travelling the world more than ever and they're charging more than they've ever charged for tickets. They're promoting the product more than ever before and their social media output is better than it's ever been, largely due to how society consumes social media now.
The celebrity involvement (in particular celebs with a heavy social media footprint) is huge too.
Appreciate your effort, but .... ratings? Come on man. They an element of importance for the networks and viewing trends of people that still watch like that, but from an overall business sense. Obsolete. Glad we're almost at the point wrestling can genuinely get over them with moves to streaming, hopefully we won't be far off obsessive nitpicking over promoters being promoters and overselling any old number soon enough.
Nor do I get your argument for CM Punk being closer to Cena or Hogan than Rock or Austin. Maybe the past 3-4 years, where he's been in constant "hey, happy to be here" due to essentially returning 3 times in that period.
WWE are putting up a similar number shows than in the peak 99-01 era - despite spacing out their talent far more and giving them (slightly) better breaks, while not being far off a similar average attendance, your own source has it at 10700 average last year vs 11-12000 average for 99-00 with higher prices compared to the average wage... while also showing a steady and obvious decline for peak PG Cena 08-12 to as low as 6500, yes I know this kind of crosses over Punk's pipebomb run... then massively upping the shows from 240 to over 300, and showing consistency despite forcing Roman for another X amount of years... only for clear growth showing as he turns heel. But as you say in your final sentence, there's plenty more to this... but there is to it to ratings anyway.
I'll get back to you in a few years with regards to Cody... yes I appreciate he's booked the same as them now, but Cena and Roman went through 5+ years of this, while not being the same level of wrestler - which ain't saying much, I don't think Cody's overly great himself, and in Roman's case, dude couldn't even promo.
Nor do I get your argument for CM Punk being closer to Cena or Hogan than Rock or Austin. Maybe the past 3-4 years, where he's been in constant "hey, happy to be here" due to essentially returning 3 times in that period.
WWE are putting up a similar number shows than in the peak 99-01 era - despite spacing out their talent far more and giving them (slightly) better breaks, while not being far off a similar average attendance, your own source has it at 10700 average last year vs 11-12000 average for 99-00 with higher prices compared to the average wage... while also showing a steady and obvious decline for peak PG Cena 08-12 to as low as 6500, yes I know this kind of crosses over Punk's pipebomb run... then massively upping the shows from 240 to over 300, and showing consistency despite forcing Roman for another X amount of years... only for clear growth showing as he turns heel. But as you say in your final sentence, there's plenty more to this... but there is to it to ratings anyway.
I'll get back to you in a few years with regards to Cody... yes I appreciate he's booked the same as them now, but Cena and Roman went through 5+ years of this, while not being the same level of wrestler - which ain't saying much, I don't think Cody's overly great himself, and in Roman's case, dude couldn't even promo.