Television Tho Prop Grops Throps

Only just caught up on it. Ending was extremely good but it kind of had to be to save a fecking atrocious ppv. The women's rumble was the only other thing on it better than insultingly shite imo. The mens one is even worse in hindsight. The only genuine story Cosy has is his fued with Seth, and they could have had him win the rumble by eliminating Seth which would have been a great pay off/closure, but decided to chuck that away to Logan fecking Paul.

I'm also not sure what the point is in building Sami like they have just to have Codi vs Reigns at Mania. They will end up with fans turning on Cody due to trying to force feed him down their throats. They could work Sami into it, but that's going to be a bit of a mess at this point.

The whole point to building up a face is surely to get people to genuinely want them to win or get one over on the heel. Sami is that face right now and if you want to make good wrestling shows surely you go with that, rather than back yourself into corners by trying to force people over.

Reigns vs Cody will be a waste and is asking people to choose between a heel who's been champion forever, and whats bordering on a Homelander parodee.
 
Sylar said:
Haha but yeah completely agree.
Watching that again, wow, the reaction was immense
Lot of heels can learn from Reigns and his mannerisms and attitude
Fantastic heel who right now doesn't need to rely on cheap digs at hometown crowds

The pacing of the whole storyline has been great up until now.
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It's a fair point. People say MJF is the best heel in wrestling. Nah. People laugh and ironically cheer him for calling people fat, ugly, mocking local sports teams. He's like Bart Simpson, the "I didn't do it" kid. Say the lines, MJF.

Roman gets 50,000 people shouting "Feck you, Roman" and they erupt when he got hit with a chair because his character is a cnut.

Same with the mannerisms too. Effortlessly menacing.

 
The Sami Bloodline story has been the best thing that they have done in years, but I think they have totally wasted it. Surely the point of it was the elevate Sami into a monster face who would ultimately win his first title. But having him turn on the Bloodline now makes no sense. He will face Roman and get rolled over on which means it was a waste of a storyline. Everyone knows Cody is winning the title next. If anything this will get Cody booed as Sami is the most over character in WWE at the moment.
 
Name Changed said:
The Sami Bloodline story has been the best thing that they have done in years, but I think they have totally wasted it. Surely the point of it was the elevate Sami into a monster face who would ultimately win his first title. But having him turn on the Bloodline now makes no sense. He will face Roman and get rolled over on which means it was a waste of a storyline. Everyone knows Cody is winning the title next. If anything this will get Cody booed as Sami is the most over character in WWE at the moment.
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Can you imagine? :lol:

You'd have to feel for Cody if that was the case. It's not his fault that Sami became red hot in his absence. I guess if they have no intention of doing anything with Roman and Sami they really need to kill it dead and divert the storyline well before Wrestlemania.
 
noodlehair said:
Only just caught up on it. Ending was extremely good but it kind of had to be to save a fecking atrocious ppv. The women's rumble was the only other thing on it better than insultingly shite imo. The mens one is even worse in hindsight. The only genuine story Cosy has is his fued with Seth, and they could have had him win the rumble by eliminating Seth which would have been a great pay off/closure, but decided to chuck that away to Logan fecking Paul.

I'm also not sure what the point is in building Sami like they have just to have Codi vs Reigns at Mania. They will end up with fans turning on Cody due to trying to force feed him down their throats. They could work Sami into it, but that's going to be a bit of a mess at this point.

The whole point to building up a face is surely to get people to genuinely want them to win or get one over on the heel. Sami is that face right now and if you want to make good wrestling shows surely you go with that, rather than back yourself into corners by trying to force people over.

Reigns vs Cody will be a waste and is asking people to choose between a heel who's been champion forever, and whats bordering on a Homelander parodee.
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Agree with all of this.

As for the bit in bold it's exactly the same as it was in AEW and I think it will grate eventually but also be a massive waste if at some point they don't lean into that and his character doesn't become the heel who doesn't realises he is one. At the moment he's still massively over as a face but they need to tread carefully and get the strap on him before the crowd starts to turn (and they will). Would be really interesting if the WWE can convince him to do what AEW couldn't as I think it could prove to be quite a fresh take on the heel and very meta.
 
Name Changed said:
The Sami Bloodline story has been the best thing that they have done in years, but I think they have totally wasted it. Surely the point of it was the elevate Sami into a monster face who would ultimately win his first title. But having him turn on the Bloodline now makes no sense. He will face Roman and get rolled over on which means it was a waste of a storyline. Everyone knows Cody is winning the title next. If anything this will get Cody booed as Sami is the most over character in WWE at the moment.
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Sami vs. Reigns in Montreal is massive though - thats a huge main event that could well be as memorable as anything at Mania.

If they play it right (and I think they will) Reigns goes over Sami in Montreal via nafareous means - Owens comes out for the big save at the end. The two of them go for the tag titles at Mania (which is a big enough match to co-headline the non-Reigns night).

After that Sami and Reigns are still interlinked and you get the big title rematch at Summerslam.

The other alternative would have been Sami wins the rumble, Owens/Zayn go for the tag titles in Montreal and then Zayn goes for the title at Mania.
 
Just let Roman defend each title each night at Wrestlemania against Cody and Sami seperately, preferably dropping both and splitting them up again on each brand.
 
No way Roman is losing back to back nights.

Name Changed said:
The Sami Bloodline story has been the best thing that they have done in years, but I think they have totally wasted it. Surely the point of it was the elevate Sami into a monster face who would ultimately win his first title. But having him turn on the Bloodline now makes no sense. He will face Roman and get rolled over on which means it was a waste of a storyline. Everyone knows Cody is winning the title next. If anything this will get Cody booed as Sami is the most over character in WWE at the moment.
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I get where youre coming for. Sami has done a fantastic job and just look over.
It would be like how they were leaning towards HHH v Orton from the Evolution storyline, but Batista got so over they had to go with Batista and HHH (and I think they put Orton with Taker).
Also sorta like when CM Punk was red hot but they went with the planned Cena/Rock (and again... put Punk with Taker?)
:nervous:
 
CassiusClaymore said:
Agree with all of this.

As for the bit in bold it's exactly the same as it was in AEW and I think it will grate eventually but also be a massive waste if at some point they don't lean into that and his character doesn't become the heel who doesn't realises he is one. At the moment he's still massively over as a face but they need to tread carefully and get the strap on him before the crowd starts to turn (and they will). Would be really interesting if the WWE can convince him to do what AEW couldn't as I think it could prove to be quite a fresh take on the heel and very meta.
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The problem they have in the immediate term I think is that Sami has become extremely over and people genuinely route for him rather then just cheer him, so if they don't give him something worthwhile (and other than going for the title I'm not sure there is anything else, the fans will resent that, and that resentment could be directed at Cody. Similar to what happened with Batista and Bryan.

Yeah agree it's the same as Cody in AEW. WWE haven't helped themselves with these endless promotional Cody video packages imo. It is literally force feeding him to their audience and you'll never build up Amy genuine apathy or investment in a face character that way. Its treating your audience like they are stupid.

Thing is Cody was fine before his injury. The fans took to him, his fued with Seth was good...but since then a lot has happened and Sami has been the main person connecting with the audience and its stupid to just ignore that. It just shows that WWE don't really understand their audience at all. Either that or aren't interested because they think they can make more money going down other routes maybe?

I mean the Sami stuff at the end of the Rumble is what makes you want to watch Raw/Smackdown to see what happens next, and I think that's the only angle in either WWE or AEW at the moment where that's really the case.
 
Fans are loving Cody, you’re insane!
Sami and the Bloodline has never been about the titles.
 
He's been back 2 nights and I wouldn't say they loved him at the rumble. He didn't get a bad reaction but it didn't exactly take the roof off either. I'm only just watching Raw and to be fair to Cody he worked the opening segment very well.

If the thing with Sami isn't going to end up being about the title then what is it going to be about? How exactly does Sami get back at Roman without it being about his never ending title reign? What else do they do with Sami now that won't make the last 6 months a waste?
 
It's gonna be the tag titles. I'm expecting Sami/Roman at the chamber and jey to cost Sami, the beatdown and KO to save Sami.
They gotta make the fans want to really see ko/Sami dethrone usos.
That way Cody will be fine
 
noodlehair said:
He's been back 2 nights and I wouldn't say they loved him at the rumble. He didn't get a bad reaction but it didn't exactly take the roof off either. I'm only just watching Raw and to be fair to Cody he worked the opening segment very well.

If the thing with Sami isn't going to end up being about the title then what is it going to be about? How exactly does Sami get back at Roman without it being about his never ending title reign? What else do they do with Sami now that won't make the last 6 months a waste?
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Supposedly it was always meant to lead to Sami and Kevin Vs. Usos

I do think thats a waste though. As I said before, with Cody missing so much time this year theres no reason he couldnt have been held for next year and Sami got this year.
 
noodlehair said:
He's been back 2 nights and I wouldn't say they loved him at the rumble. He didn't get a bad reaction but it didn't exactly take the roof off either. I'm only just watching Raw and to be fair to Cody he worked the opening segment very well.

If the thing with Sami isn't going to end up being about the title then what is it going to be about? How exactly does Sami get back at Roman without it being about his never ending title reign? What else do they do with Sami now that won't make the last 6 months a waste?
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Apparently it was always about Jay and Sami. Which makes sense
 
feck if it wasn't for the fact there's endless titles in the Bloodline and a Wrestlemania coming up... this could be leading to a 3 vs 3 I'd guess. How does Sami/KO vs Usos work with the work you've done creating that relationship between Sami and Jey.

But I mean, I just don't generally see the point in anything other than Sami in the title scene though, what an absolute waste, he turned on Reigns specifically, not the Usos. At least when they took the title away from Jericho vs KO.... the people actually feuding were still there. But this company loves a forced title WM ME.
 
Zen said:
feck if it wasn't for the fact there's endless titles in the Bloodline and a Wrestlemania coming up... this could be leading to a 3 vs 3 I'd guess. How does Sami/KO vs Usos work with the work you've done creating that relationship between Sami and Jey.

But I mean, I just don't generally see the point in anything other than Sami in the title scene though, what an absolute waste, he turned on Reigns specifically, not the Usos. At least when they took the title away from Jericho vs KO.... the people actually feuding were still there. But this company loves a forced title WM ME.
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Sami will be in the title scene. But before mania it seems and that's most likely where jey will get involved and 'turn' on Sami.
Only thing that makes sense

But yeah Sami was the one for mania this year much like how they changed plans and had bryan win it
 
Ekeke said:
Supposedly it was always meant to lead to Sami and Kevin Vs. Usos

I do think thats a waste though. As I said before, with Cody missing so much time this year theres no reason he couldnt have been held for next year and Sami got this year.
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cyberman said:
Apparently it was always about Jay and Sami. Which makes sense
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I agree it makes sense but that's just a bit meh for something thats ended up as the main and most engaging theme in WWE for some months now.

Sami and KO as tag champions would tie two of the most entertaining individuals WWE has into a series of boring tag team matches and non fueds until they drop them to The Street Prophets or something and have their inevitable falling out. And if the Usos win the entire thing is rendered completely pointless.

I don't think this "it was always meant to be x" idea is really how best to go about things. It's effectively assuming you can control and dictate to your audience what they want and are interested in, and control all the circumstances around that...and in reality you just can't do that.

Maybe back in the early attitude era you could, but this is back when people would still be on tv a week after a paralysing neck injury, and back when the heels would be racists, or woman abusers, or would do things like force a pair of 70 year old women to wrestle The Dudley Boys, or lightning bolt a camera man on fire...where as now they're just slightly angrier versions of the faces, and sometimes end up getting cheered due to being more entertaining than the faces. There was no twitter or social media back then either which is a big part of everything now.

Just feels to me like a while back now they should have been thinking how to work Sami into the main event scene to capitalise on his popularity. It would have been tough on Cody but he's been injured for nearly 3/4 of a year so that's just how it goes. At the very least they could have not literally advertised to death that Cody was going to come back and win the rumble, and then put him in at 30 as if it was meant to be a surprise.

Thr other thing that I find ridiculously dumb is having matches to qualify for an elimination chamber where the prize is the US title. Why did they put and keep both the titles on Reigns if it was going to back them into nonsensical garbage like this?

Also Reigns with his complete inconsistent monster levels again. Crushes KO but needed an army of help to beat a youtube celebrity. Is he a monster or a cheat...make up your fecking minds.
 
Sylar said:
It's gonna be the tag titles. I'm expecting Sami/Roman at the chamber and jey to cost Sami, the beatdown and KO to save Sami.
They gotta make the fans want to really see ko/Sami dethrone usos.
That way Cody will be fine
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Jey to cost Sami would be a pretty massive betrayal of that storyline, IMO. Jey needs to split from Roman just about as much as Sami. Just re-booking it so that Sami and Jey are fighting each other at Mania, just to avoid having Sami take Cody's spot is a mistake.
 
noodlehair said:
I agree it makes sense but that's just a bit meh for something thats ended up as the main and most engaging theme in WWE for some months now.

Sami and KO as tag champions would tie two of the most entertaining individuals WWE has into a series of boring tag team matches and non fueds until they drop them to The Street Prophets or something and have their inevitable falling out. And if the Usos win the entire thing is rendered completely pointless.

I don't think this "it was always meant to be x" idea is really how best to go about things. It's effectively assuming you can control and dictate to your audience what they want and are interested in, and control all the circumstances around that...and in reality you just can't do that.

Maybe back in the early attitude era you could, but this is back when people would still be on tv a week after a paralysing neck injury, and back when the heels would be racists, or woman abusers, or would do things like force a pair of 70 year old women to wrestle The Dudley Boys, or lightning bolt a camera man on fire...where as now they're just slightly angrier versions of the faces, and sometimes end up getting cheered due to being more entertaining than the faces. There was no twitter or social media back then either which is a big part of everything now.

Just feels to me like a while back now they should have been thinking how to work Sami into the main event scene to capitalise on his popularity. It would have been tough on Cody but he's been injured for nearly 3/4 of a year so that's just how it goes. At the very least they could have not literally advertised to death that Cody was going to come back and win the rumble, and then put him in at 30 as if it was meant to be a surprise.

Thr other thing that I find ridiculously dumb is having matches to qualify for an elimination chamber where the prize is the US title. Why did they put and keep both the titles on Reigns if it was going to back them into nonsensical garbage like this?

Also Reigns with his complete inconsistent monster levels again. Crushes KO but needed an army of help to beat a youtube celebrity. Is he a monster or a cheat...make up your fecking minds.
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I think they’ve capitalised on Sami popularity enough! The show now has so much depth they could choose to go either way and still have fans accept it, they’ve just choosen this route.
Sami hasn’t been booked as a threat at all, it hasn’t been about winning or losing matches. They can still have Sami v Roman in Montreal and have their mania main event. It’s a win - win for everybody.
Suddenly having Sami challenge for the title at Mania would be too jarring imo.Cody was on fire before the injury and it won’t take much to get Him back to that point again as his promo on Raw proves, especially if he’s in a program with Roman
The great thing about this storyline is the depth it’s added down the roster.
The online base tried to will Cody being booed and the audience high jacking the Rumble for Sami into existence but it simply didn’t work.
 
chris123 said:
Jey to cost Sami would be a pretty massive betrayal of that storyline, IMO. Jey needs to split from Roman just about as much as Sami. Just re-booking it so that Sami and Jey are fighting each other at Mania, just to avoid having Sami take Cody's spot is a mistake.
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Why so? Good storytelling can lead to that so easily. Jey has to make a decision between his actual family (Roman/Jimmy) and his adopted family (Sami) , and goes with his actual family. He either goes all in and to be a full on heel again, or reluctant planting him splitting down the line.
Jimmy will play a role (of the jealous guy who had an initial bond with Sami, with theirhandshake and all, and then saw Jey/Sami getting closer hence him screaming 'im your brother, not him').
 
cyberman said:
Fans are loving Cody, you’re insane!
Sami and the Bloodline has never been about the titles.
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Cody was loved on Raw. May differ depending on where they are, and 60 days is a long time in wrestling.
But agree, he's had great reactions since his return
 
TheGame said:
Still one of the best segments I have seen and still makes me laugh.

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I still think the best thing about this segment is "I don't give a damn what the tribal chief says" .... from the huge reaction, to Roman's face, to the camera zoom... it's great.
 
TheGame said:
Still one of the best segments I have seen and still makes me laugh.

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Honestly think Sami was out of line here. Looks like it was to set up Jay bucking back v Roman and Sami kind of ruined it and took the tension straight out of it
 
Sami ruined nothing. Its memorable due to him and worked well for the story too
 
WWE Main roster shows are on fire in the ratings at the moment. Used to bring it up when they were bad, only fair to bring it up when they're doing great. IIRC Raw had the highest 18-49 year olds watching on the night of all shows... Amazing result
 
Dynamite, what a strange show.

The main event was great. Darby is fantastic, and its good that the ratings always reflects that on his segments.
Also Joe probably has had his best stuff with Darby in AEW.
But its so weird, they had a no DQ match and had blood, fought in the crowd, etc. But whats the point when you got all of that in the first match, which of course, had Moxley. That dude needs to be controlled. And this time, you actually can see him cut himself :lol: The guy is addicted to this stuff.
The pay off needs to be somebody challenging Moxley to a first blood match.

Danielson/Thatcher was a good match as it was different. I actually liked the MJF stuff this week, not the usual same ol promo on whatever city he was in. And its nice that wrestling.
Rest of the show was meh. JAS are basically doing the gauntlet for Starks, that MJF does with all his opponents (and doing with Bryan right now)...

Yeah, something isnt clicking with AEW. They will retain their core base which is close to a million, but I dont know if they are happy with that and dont wanna at least try and grow that? Or if they are, they arent doing a good job.
 
Good ending to Smackdown, thought it was meh other than that

Also this is a whoops

Bryan Danielson: Vince McMahon called to ask me about AEW in early 2020
AEW

Bryan Danielson says he told Vince McMahon WWE "feels like you’re watching a wrestling show without any wrestling.”

Speaking to Bloomberg in an article released Wednesday, Danielson revealed that in early 2020, Vince McMahon called to ask him, “Do you see anything that AEW’s doing better than us?”


At the time, Danielson was on paternity leave. He then spent the next two weeks watching AEW programming before responding to McMahon. The conclusion he ultimately came to was that AEW "committed more time to and placed more value on the craft of fighting in the ring." In contrast, WWE programming typically involves shorter matches and places greater emphasis on long talking segments.

“It feels like you’re watching a wrestling show without any wrestling,” Danielson said to McMahon about WWE's product.


Danielson would depart WWE after losing a Career vs. Title match to Roman Reigns on the April 30, 2021, episode of SmackDown. His first match in AEW took place at Grand Slam in Arthur Ashe Stadium on September 22, 2021. He went to a time-limit draw with Kenny Omega that night.
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WWE has loads of long matches on both their shows. The problem is over half the matches are fecking boring or are too meaningless to engage in.
 
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