Look at the money they had to spend for the likes of Mangala and Bakayoko and the clubs they were linked with at the time and you will see the difference. Mangala was seen as one of the better CB prospects in world football for example, and Bakayoko was a key performer in a Monaco side that pipped PSG to the league title and made a strong run in the CL. This is aside from the fact those teams spent way more than those sums on other top-level players.
The amounts paid for the players we were talking about previously:
Davies - £10m
Trippier - £4.5m
Dier - £4m
Alli - £5m
Spurs must have had legendary levels of scouting/negotiators in place to sign all these guys you clearly perceive as ready-made, top class players, completely under the radar for next to nothing. Clearly they were all just waiting to be snatched up by any top 4 club and would have instantly improved those sides, as evidently Pochettino had nothing to do with their progression. Spurs just magically managed to find all these hugely undervalued players before any of the other sides it seems.
So because they strongly favour him over a man who was sacked by spurs, it's a cult?
There's clearly only two realistic options so why is it delusional logic to want one?
I don't think Poch is a bad manager, he's just the opposite of what we need.It's the lengths some of them are going over this that is cult like.
I'm sure you have read the same posts I and others have read.
If Ten Hag gets the job I'll support him I have no doubt if he didn't there will be a very strong Poch out group in here before he even starts the job
Mental arithmetic's at their finest; so because Poch had 5 trophyless seasons (not one as you state) at Spurs he's more comparable to Klopp, SAF, Pep etc than a highly rated manager who hasn't yet managed in the PL? Got it.A lot of those managers did not win in their first season. So, you could argue that the PL experience they did get was invaluable to their future success.
Guardiola - didn't work in his first season. Adapted and won it.
Ferguson - didn't win in his first season. Adapted and eventually won it.
Klopp - Same as above.
You could do it for most of the managers. If Klopp, Guardiola, and Ferguson (the last two in particular, as Klopp also started with a pretty lame team) had the same experience in the PL, it would not surprise me if they won the Premier League earlier. So, it probably does have a bearing.
A lot of those managers did not win in their first season. So, you could argue that the PL experience they did get was invaluable to their future success.
Guardiola - didn't work in his first season. Adapted and won it.
Ferguson - didn't win in his first season. Adapted and eventually won it.
Klopp - Same as above.
You could do it for most of the managers. If Klopp, Guardiola, and Ferguson (the last two in particular, as Klopp also started with a pretty lame team) had the same experience in the PL, it would not surprise me if they won the Premier League earlier. So, it probably does have a bearing.
Bakayoko and Mangala were subpar players and anyone that actually watched them knew it which makes City and Chelsea signing them hilarious. Bakayoko played well for Monaco from August to late november 16/17, before that he was considered a massive flop and after that he was subpar again.
And again the only thing that matter is the actually quality of the players, you either address that or there is not point pursuing that conversation.
A lot of those managers did not win in their first season. So, you could argue that the PL experience they did get was invaluable to their future success.
Guardiola - didn't work in his first season. Adapted and won it.
Ferguson - didn't win in his first season. Adapted and eventually won it.
Klopp - Same as above.
You could do it for most of the managers. If Klopp, Guardiola, and Ferguson (the last two in particular, as Klopp also started with a pretty lame team) had the same experience in the PL, it would not surprise me if they won the Premier League earlier. So, it probably does have a bearing.
A lot of those managers did not win in their first season. So, you could argue that the PL experience they did get was invaluable to their future success.
Guardiola - didn't work in his first season. Adapted and won it.
Ferguson - didn't win in his first season. Adapted and eventually won it.
Klopp - Same as above.
You could do it for most of the managers. If Klopp, Guardiola, and Ferguson (the last two in particular, as Klopp also started with a pretty lame team) had the same experience in the PL, it would not surprise me if they won the Premier League earlier. So, it probably does have a bearing.
I can list loads who flopped because because they couldn't handle it. Same with managers.
Rather than the OPs list of managers who eventually won the league with great squads how about a list of managers with no PL experience who were sacked before winning anything?
You'll be shocked to hear that Klopp did not win Bundesliga either in his first season. In fact, he got relegated from it before he ever won it!A lot of those managers did not win in their first season. So, you could argue that the PL experience they did get was invaluable to their future success.
Guardiola - didn't work in his first season. Adapted and won it.
Ferguson - didn't win in his first season. Adapted and eventually won it.
Klopp - Same as above.
You could do it for most of the managers. If Klopp, Guardiola, and Ferguson (the last two in particular, as Klopp also started with a pretty lame team) had the same experience in the PL, it would not surprise me if they won the Premier League earlier. So, it probably does have a bearing.
OK mate, I agree there's no point continuing the conversation when you're clearly stuck in full hindsight-mode.
You're right, Mangala - despite being a fully fledged French international and one of the most-sought after young CBs in Europe, was always trash. Trippier, Dier, Alli etc were already world-class players when Spurs bought them in lower-standard leagues.
Just so happens you were correct on all these points and the rest of the actual footballing world - i.e. all the clubs that were tracking Mangala, and all the ones that missed out on signing the players mentioned above for a few million quid each - didn't have a clue.
Congratulations Almighty Football Oracle.
The argument is that they wouldn't have been appointed in the first place because they were not pl proven. What is being argued by poch fans is that ten hag should not be appointed by utd unless and until he has performed for another pl team.
So if that logic was applied then saf, wenger, jose, pep, klop, conte etc should have not been appointed in the first place and therefore they wouldn't have gotten the opportunity to win the league down the line.
How about first time league winners?I know exactly what he was trying to say. The data is not backing up his point like he thinks it is. You cannot use Fergie’s 13 titles to show that the league has been won 13 times by managers with no PL experience. You can use the wording “at the time of appointment” to make it fit his narrative, but it’s just stupid.
Also, if you want to go down this route, out of the managers listed, winning the Dutch league with Ajax twice is probably close to the weakest of achievements on that list.
I don’t even have a massive opinion on this either way, but it just hurt my eyes having read it.
Interesting.
Up until this thread, I have never come across "PL proven" as a criteria in respect to managers, players yes, managers, nope. Weird.
Zidane would be just as big a gamble as Ten Hag or Rodgers. He's not proven in the PL or at any other club than where he had the most expensive squad ever. I don't think you can gurantee success with any of them.
My pick of the bunch at the minute is Rodgers. He plays good football, develops players well and has done a good job at Leicester. Following him, I'd have Poch. Again - PL proven, knows the league well and would do a great job. Zidane is meh for me. Recently heard him being interviewed about his 'philosophy' and it sounded like an Ole interview. Super general, no fixed plan or way of playing - just keep the ball up the field and pass quickly. Wasn't convinced and think he might struggle in the Prem. Ten Hag seems like a top coach, but I'm concerned that he won't translate well to the prem. His Ajax side plays some lovely stuff, and if it did work at United it could be pretty special. But the pace of the dutch league is light years away from that of the PL - and we've seen many players who starred there struggle here, so not sure if a coach would do differently. He's a gamble, imo. But then again, no one is guaranteed to be a success.
I really hope we are considering him alongside Conte and Zidane, not many links though.
He is a great coach, PL proven, my only concern is he can't really organize defence and it's one of our biggest worries atm.
I don't know his contract situation but we might be able to lure him in january.
How about first time league winners?
You don't need PL experience to win your first PL trophy. I think that would more appropriate.
We're not a work experience company. Poch had that at Spurs and failed.
This PL experience bollocks is pure propaganda from the same idiots who got us here over the past 10 years (mostly ex-players and supposed United legends).
Spurs isn't United. How many managers would actually win the league there when they went some summers bringing in 0 players?
It happened once after four seasons not several times. And the question is how many managers would win the league or even a cup with a starting eleven made of Lloris, Walker/Trippier, Aderweireld, Vertonghen, Rose/Davies, Eriksen, Dembélé, Son, Alli, Moura, Kane?
They never spent that much though even when they did spend.
Cups aren't really a priority. Klopp could have won more but plenty of clubs focus on the league. And they finished better with him than anyone else.
Honestly, not many would have.
What do you mean by not that much? They brought for around 470m€ worth of player, in Football that's a lot. They spent over 100m€ twice which again is a lot in Foorball. And the only valuable starter that they sold was Walker.
He took the 5th team in the league and on average finished third, plenty of managers have not only done the same but also done better while actually winning things.
Not sure how many good players they actually bought. A few were good but their managers since have struggled to replicate what he did.
Who did that recently?
Alderweireld, Son, Trippier, Sissoko, Dier, Alli, Davies, Lucas, and others were all bought after 2014. Tottenham bought a large amount of the team that had "success" for Pochettino. And the only starter that he lost was Walker.
And wont. I really cannot see why he is so highly rated by some; the truth is hes a serial loser, a lightweight who puts together teams which are equally lightweight.So Pochettino it is then. He has not won anything in PL.
I imagine Pochs own ego is equal to that of Neymars.Plus I would say the fact Poch has had to deal with what is really a toxic environment in PSG not to mention the egos of Neymar and co it gives him a huge advantage over Ten Hag who has never had to deal with anything like that
So you think it was just spending and Poch being there was a coincidence? We've spent loads and gotten nowhere so he's already better than all of our managers post-Fergie.
I can only speak for myself but I didn’t think he was the right man then either.People really have short-term memories don't they - why are we forgetting Pochettino did an excellent job at both Southampton and Spurs?
Yes he didn't win a trophy at Spurs, but it was a surprise they were challenging in some of these competitions as it was.
The biggest stain on him is not winning the league last year, but even then there's the caveat that they were 3rd when he took over and his PPG was better than Tuchel's over the first half of that campaign.
I'm not saying he's a better appointment than Ten Haag, but the fact people are making him out to be trash now is comical considering the love-in a before this season.
I can only speak for myself but I didn’t think he was the right man then either.
his record against top 6 is shocking, like moyes when he was at United. I think he relies too much on big players turning up much like ole did. The problem at United is that the big players walk around the pitch moaning at each other. I don’t think he’s enough of a culture shock to turn this club around
