This is the worst quality PL season since?

Fortitude

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A very ordinary Liverpool, being carried by Salah, are 15pts clear of their nearest challenger - a rubbish Arsenal side - in the starting third of March.

The run-in hasn't even started yet and the league is wrapped up.

Rubbish quality abounds with one well-spirited story of Forest capitalising.

What PL season(s) has/have been of par or worse quality than this one?
 
As an emerging theme on these boards, I addressed this notion earlier today. Refers to the many journalists who say the opposite:

PickledRed said:
I listen to podcasts - Weekly, Totally, Ramble etc. None of them Liverpool related.

I mean, we have some very strong teams this season that weren’t around before now. Bournemouth, Brighton, Villa, Newcastle, Forest and Fulham. All capable of beating big teams. To say this is a weak league just seems a bit sour. It’s obviously a strong league.
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PickledRed said:
As an emerging theme on these boards, I addressed this notion earlier today. Refers to the many journalists who say the opposite:
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I think the top teams are weaker but the middle pack has been the strongest for a long time. The bottom teams are utter wank though..might even be worse than the 3 last season which takes some doing
 
The top sides are slightly weaker and going through transition, the mid-pack is much stronger and the Championship to PL gulf is growing.

Pretty much every side in the PL now has huge resources and backing behind them so the competition is growing each season.

I feel like these arguments though are always propelled by people who support traditionally bigger clubs because they struggle to admit that they're now shite and other people are good. As a comfort blanket it must mean everyone is shite. :p
 
The lack of quality is further highlighted in the CL when you see the pace, intensity and quality of the top 3 in Spain, and even PSG vs Liverpool.

In terms of quality, I remember that random post Covid season when City won it on like 80pts and United came second with like 70?
 
SilentWitness said:
The top sides are slightly weaker and going through transition, the mid-pack is much stronger and the Championship to PL gulf is growing.

Pretty much every side in the PL now has huge resources and backing behind them so the competition is growing each season.

I feel like these arguments though are always propelled by people who support traditionally bigger clubs because they struggle to admit that they're now shite and other people are good. As a comfort blanket it must mean everyone is shite. :p
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But then everyone else is shit though. Chelsea,Arsenal, City all have been shit.

Villa isn't as good as last year. United is no where near to last year and Spurs are Spurs.
Bournemouth are the only one that has improved tremendously over last one year.
 
I think the average level is quite high actually, but the quality near the bottom and top is kind of meh. This in turn has made the season quite boring.

The overall level of the PL was way worse between 2012 and 2017, in my opinion. It was low on entertainment with poor and forgettable champions, and not a single PL team made a CL final for 5 years straight!

Yes it was fun to be a United supporter in the final Fergie season. Yes it was fun to watch Leicester win the league with 81 points and watch Spurs "finish 3rd in a two-horse race". Not to mention the Gerrard slip. But high quality, it was not.
 
Fortitude said:
A very ordinary Liverpool, being carried by Salah, are 15pts clear of their nearest challenger - a rubbish Arsenal side - in the starting third of March.

The run-in hasn't even started yet and the league is wrapped up.

Rubbish quality abounds with one well-spirited story of Forest capitalising.

What PL season(s) has/have been of par or worse quality than this one?
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20/21

Before that, you probably have to go back to 15/16, aka the PL banter era

Do note that it's only at the very top and bottom that the PL is "weak", and the former only relative to its recent past
 
SilentWitness said:
The top sides are slightly weaker and going through transition, the mid-pack is much stronger and the Championship to PL gulf is growing.

Pretty much every side in the PL now has huge resources and backing behind them so the competition is growing each season.

I feel like these arguments though are always propelled by people who support traditionally bigger clubs because they struggle to admit that they're now shite and other people are good. As a comfort blanket it must mean everyone is shite. :p
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United weren't good in 18/19 and 21/22, but those were two good PL seasons. Arsenal are 2nd, and they are poorer than they've looked the last 3 seasons including when they finished 5th. I think there are maybe two or three teams that are worth watching this season.
 
Feels rather like the Leicester season where the majority of the big clubs are having an off season or worse, with the only difference being one of them is performing and running away with the league rather than an underdog story.
 
I don’t know if I’d call Liverpool ordinary going by their CL showings so far. The quality below them is terrible though. But the last few seasons have basically just been City and one other anyway so with City going to shit it compounds it more. I think the quality of the teams 5-10 is higher than ever.
 
We’re 14th and we’re closer to 4th than we are to 18th. It’s a weird season for sure. Lot of big teams stumbling around and never really get going. Smaller teams gather momentum but then they stumble. It leaves the door open for Liverpool after years of being cockblocked from a shedload of trophies that have gone to Man City or Real Madrid and therefore still eager and raring to go.
 
bond19821982 said:
But then everyone else is shit though. Chelsea,Arsenal, City all have been shit.

Villa isn't as good as last year. United is no where near to last year and Spurs are Spurs.
Bournemouth are the only one that has improved tremendously over last one year.
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The same shit Arsenal, Chelsea and not as good Villa are likely going to be European QF. United and Spurs possibly too. Relative to other leagues the PL is stacking up fine in terms of the coefficient despite the drop of those.
Idxomer said:
United weren't good in 18/19 and 21/22, but those were two good PL seasons. Arsenal are 2nd, and they are poorer than they've looked the last 3 seasons including when they finished 5th. I think there are maybe two or three teams that are worth watching this season.
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The competition is much higher on my opinion.

I think people just see underperforming sides and put it down to lack of quality instead of seeing it as growth of quality in other sides and a playing field getting gradually more level due to a multitude of factors.
 
Worst season or not. You still have to win it. We have been poor but also unlucky with some of things.
 
PickledRed said:
As an emerging theme on these boards, I addressed this notion earlier today. Refers to the many journalists who say the opposite:
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this middle section has certainly improved but it doesnt mean that overall the league is poor. the relegation teams are absolutely woeful and wolves will somehow survive despite being terrible too. The top teams are dreadful which means the teams youve mentioned seem comparatively stronger too. I think often people underestimate the middling teams from years gone by too. Brighton have had some truly diabolical games this season, including a 7 nil pounding and overall these teams are taking points off eachother as none of them are real standouts. There is absolutely no way this chelsea side is in top 4 contention in most other seasons.

Overall, despite some improvements in some teams that deserve credit, its been a really poor season, not just from a united perspective.
 
Keep in mind that last season to survive was only 27 points. Might even be less this season. Either it's because the league is so damn strong or the quality at the bottom is the worst it's ever been.
 
SER19 said:
this middle section has certainly improved but it doesnt mean that overall the league is poor. the relegation teams are absolutely woeful and wolves will somehow survive despite being terrible too. The top teams are dreadful which means the teams youve mentioned seem comparatively stronger too. I think often people underestimate the middling teams from years gone by too. Brighton have had some truly diabolical games this season, including a 7 nil pounding and overall these teams are taking points off eachother as none of them are real standouts. There is absolutely no way this chelsea side is in top 4 contention in most other seasons.

Overall, despite some improvements in some teams that deserve credit, its been a really poor season, not just from a united perspective.
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Dreadful is too strong a term for the 'top' teams. We had 3 English sides in the top 8 of the CL and there will be 3 in the QF.
 
The mid table teams are pretty strong. Traditionally weaker ones all have improved significantly. The top teams aside from Liverpool are in an absolute disarray though; Arsenal can play some nice football from time to time but are too reliant on a few players to carry their attack. Bottom teams are horrible.

So yeah, if it’s about the level of competition for the league title — it’s pretty bad. Easily the worst since Leicester and probably even worse than then. If it’s about the league in general… it isn’t that bad. But a very good team should still win the majority of their games and Liverpool do… mostly thanks to Salah but they do.
 
SilentWitness said:
Dreadful is too strong a term for the 'top' teams. We had 3 English sides in the top 8 of the CL and there will be 3 in the QF.
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This is overstated this season I think. Bad teams have gone far in europe plenty, terrible united teams have won cups recently. You look at the new cl format and you really have to try to get knocked out in the group, then you might get a decent draw - Villa vs Brugge. Lets see how Liverpool do vs PSG but they got absolutely battered last week, City were brushed aside by Madrid, and Arsenal demolished a very poor PSV.

Spurs have bundled through in Europe and currently trail alkmaar, and while United are unbeaten we have also failed to beat any of the slightly tricky opponents like fenerbahce, porto, and sociedad.

United are in fact a good example of why cup form should not be massively indicative of overall quality, this is unquestionably a terrible united and many still hope we can go far in Europa.
 
Arsenal would be a lot better with their full squad. League still doing well in European coefficient race. Modern pressing bot tactics definitely make more boring matches often.

La liga is shite these days as well, the financial disparities are stupid, like having the Harlem Globe Trotters in a "competitive" league. League 1 has the most ridiculous disparities of all...

It's stupid putting clubs with 600m revenue against clubs with 20 or less, obviously players look better at the big clubs in those leagues as well, they get plenty of games where they can build confidence and just 2 or 3 proper contests a season..
 
SilentWitness said:
The same shit Arsenal, Chelsea and not as good Villa are likely going to be European QF. United and Spurs possibly too. Relative to other leagues the PL is stacking up fine in terms of the coefficient despite the drop of those.
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Argument isn't relative to other leagues. Thought we are talking about PL itself
 
eire-red said:
The lack of quality is further highlighted in the CL when you see the pace, intensity and quality of the top 3 in Spain, and even PSG vs Liverpool.

In terms of quality, I remember that random post Covid season when City won it on like 80pts and United came second with like 70?
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What? All Premier League teams qualified with ease apart from City who are going through a transition and drew arguably the best team in Europe. Liverpool, Villa and Arsenal all look to be heading to the last 16. Not seeing a lack of quality being highlighted tbh in Europe?
 
The top end prem sides are much weaker than 20 years ago, maybe a decade ago but then Liverpool were rubbish in 14/15 and Man. United had the same sterile type of play under Van Gaal as now. Arsenal probably better but they were still top 4 at that point under Wenger.

Less said about the promoted teams and relegation battles the better.

The mid table sides are better though. I agree with what Guardiola was saying about them in interview with Neil Warnock. In the past surprise teams would get to 40 points and then clock off for the season (Stoke/Swansea/West Brom/Southampton) but Forest haven't and Brighton are gaining momentum for the run in.

On Liverpool they all round aren't as strong as what they produced in 18/19 up to 21/22 but then they don't have to be and this core has stuck around long enough to know how to grind out the results even when playing subpar.
 
SER19 said:
This is overstated this season I think. Bad teams have gone far in europe plenty, terrible united teams have won cups recently. You look at the new cl format and you really have to try to get knocked out in the group, then you might get a decent draw - Villa vs Brugge. Lets see how Liverpool do vs PSG but they got absolutely battered last week, City were brushed aside by Madrid, and Arsenal demolished a very poor PSV.

Spurs have bundled through in Europe and currently trail alkmaar, and while United are unbeaten we have also failed to beat any of the slightly tricky opponents like fenerbahce, porto, and sociedad.

United are in fact a good example of why cup form should not be massively indicative of overall quality, this is unquestionably a terrible united and many still hope we can go far in Europa.
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Sure, cup form isn't a be all and end all but it's one of the few things we have to judge the quality of leagues against each other. This season it would suggest that the PL is better or at least on a level with the others despite people calling the top sides dreadful or terrible.
 
SilentWitness said:
It depends what you're arguing it's relative to surely? Unless the argument is that the quality in every league is bad this season?
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Its a bit poor around Europe too. There's no elite teams in Europe currently.
 
adexkola said:
For all ye nitpicking bastards, what was the best PL season and what made it the best (your team winning doesn't count)
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Probably 07/08 or 08/09.

3 teams on 80+ points both seasons, highly competetive at the top with nobody running away with it. 4th place getting 76 and 72 which is higher than normal for that position. 6 teams in the CL semi finals across those seasons, making it the best in the world at the top end.

Legendary managers and players everywhere.

At the bottom end barring Derby it was competitive too. Teams going down on 34 and 36 which is no sort of record but is much better than is becoming the trend and the fight to stay up was exciting. So even though we had more teams getting impressive points totals at the top end, and who were the best teams in the world at the time it wasn't because they were beating up dross.
 
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SilentWitness said:
The same shit Arsenal, Chelsea and not as good Villa are likely going to be European QF. United and Spurs possibly too. Relative to other leagues the PL is stacking up fine in terms of the coefficient despite the drop of those.

The competition is much higher on my opinion.

I think people just see underperforming sides and put it down to lack of quality instead of seeing it as growth of quality in other sides and a playing field getting gradually more level due to a multitude of factors.
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Football across the board is at a low ebb. The playing field is getting gradually more level because more and more teams are putting the emphasis on pressing etc. it’s easier to become ultra fit than it is to become very good at football.
 
acnumber9 said:
Football across the board is at a low ebb. The playing field is getting gradually more level because more and more teams are putting the emphasis on pressing etc. it’s easier to become ultra fit than it is to become very good at football.
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I think it's because more and more clubs are starting to be backed by bigger and better owners. Pretty much every side in the league now has huge financial backing compared to c. 10-20 years ago when you had 5 or 6.
 
SilentWitness said:
I think it's because more and more clubs are starting to be backed by bigger and better owners. Pretty much every side in the league now has huge financial backing compared to c. 10-20 years ago when you had 5 or 6.
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I just think the top end players aren’t there anymore making the middle even bigger.
 
SER19 said:
this middle section has certainly improved but it doesnt mean that overall the league is poor. the relegation teams are absolutely woeful and wolves will somehow survive despite being terrible too. The top teams are dreadful which means the teams youve mentioned seem comparatively stronger too. I think often people underestimate the middling teams from years gone by too. Brighton have had some truly diabolical games this season, including a 7 nil pounding and overall these teams are taking points off eachother as none of them are real standouts. There is absolutely no way this chelsea side is in top 4 contention in most other seasons.

Overall, despite some improvements in some teams that deserve credit, its been a really poor season, not just from a united perspective.
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That was an terrible performance for sure, and the home loss vs Palace was pretty disappointing. They also had a collapse vs Chelsea away after a great start to the game. Other than those games I can't think of any other 'stinker'. On the contrary, they beat Chelsea and City (when they were 2nd, 2 points behind Liverpool) at home and convincingly so. They also have by far the youngest manager in the league. Still, Brighton are 5 points off their best ever season since being promoted with 9 games to go and in the quarter final of the FA Cup. They are a good side, it's unfair to pick out 2-3 bad results in a long season and label them a failure.
 
SER19 said:
this middle section has certainly improved but it doesnt mean that overall the league is poor. the relegation teams are absolutely woeful and wolves will somehow survive despite being terrible too. The top teams are dreadful which means the teams youve mentioned seem comparatively stronger too. I think often people underestimate the middling teams from years gone by too. Brighton have had some truly diabolical games this season, including a 7 nil pounding and overall these teams are taking points off eachother as none of them are real standouts. There is absolutely no way this chelsea side is in top 4 contention in most other seasons.

Overall, despite some improvements in some teams that deserve credit, its been a really poor season, not just from a united perspective.
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I disagree
 
Amir said:
I can honestly say that I've been hearing people saying that 'this is the worst quality season' every year.
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But this season its true - I can say that despite Liverpool being superior to the other teams, this Liverpool-teams scare me a lot less than the one team from 3-4 seasons ago.

Liverpool is the only side with more than an average of 2.0 points pr game. Liverpool is the only team who has scored more than 2 goals pr game and no other team has won more than 15 out of 28 games.

Arsenal and City have been hugely disappointing, us and Spurs have been disasters and even Newcastle and Villa have below what you should expect
 
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