There is truth in this, for sure, though I also think the game has changed a lot and it is much harder than it used to be to change things round so dramatically, or to push a premier league team from ok (which we still are, when everyone is fit) to challenging for the title. It takes a lot of very well spent money in a much more difficult market for a start. The competition for top talent is so broad now.
This is the bleakest it has been in my lifetime
- Thread starter Martial
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There is truth in this, for sure, though I also think the game has changed a lot and it is much harder than it used to be to change things round so dramatically, or to push a premier league team from ok (which we still are, when everyone is fit) to challenging for the title. It takes a lot of very well spent money in a much more difficult market for a start. The competition for top talent is so broad now.
Yeah, this is the lowest we've been, in my opinion. Not just in terms of the results, but also in terms of the state of the squad and the club overall. It isn't a fluke that we're 8th, it's where we belong on merit.
We have a massive hill to climb now, but I have to believe that with things going our way in a few different areas, we can bounce back somewhat next year. If we manage to make some good transfer moves and bring in 2-3 quality players, have more consistency with injuries, no European games, and if we get a new manager, I think we could get back to 4th or 5th next season and hopefully build from there.
We have a massive hill to climb now, but I have to believe that with things going our way in a few different areas, we can bounce back somewhat next year. If we manage to make some good transfer moves and bring in 2-3 quality players, have more consistency with injuries, no European games, and if we get a new manager, I think we could get back to 4th or 5th next season and hopefully build from there.
City fans won’t be getting their 2nd Champions League title, or another treble, but they’ll be over their fekking blue moon to….
be the first club to win 4 PL titles in a row
to win another double
to give Utd one of their biggest public humiliations (and there have been a few), in front of the whole nation.
Yes, it will be a bit bleaker in a few weeks time.
be the first club to win 4 PL titles in a row
to win another double
to give Utd one of their biggest public humiliations (and there have been a few), in front of the whole nation.
Yes, it will be a bit bleaker in a few weeks time.
Sinking without a trace. No fight left in them
They hurt more but no way was it bleaker. We could expect to come back competing on those competitions the very next season. At this stage there isn't really a single aspect of the footballing side of the business that is working. Nothing. It says a lot that I look back on players like fellaini with renewed fondness. Lvg and Jose's teams wipe the floor with this squad and manager.
Depending on how much stock you put in xG numbers, we are a LOT worse than we were even under Ole/Rangnick -
Numbers in fact seem to indicate that -
1. Ten Hag had a bad start but then improved in both defence and attack in the middle of last season. But then, while our attack continued to improve towards the end of the season, defence got a lot worse.
2. The downward trend in the quality of our defence has been ongoing for a while now.
3. Ten Hag's underlying number have never been as good as Ole's first 2 seasons, where we at least had a positive xG difference.
It tells a story, for sure, but what is the graph actually about? Is it expected goals conceded? Or expected chances conceded? (Is that a thing, don't you just measure the chances?)
I don't think Ole or Rangnick was ever hit as hard with injuries to be fair on Eth.
(I'm in favor of sacking Eth btw, not defending him, just think on the eye-test the other two looked worse off in general)
It’s interesting how bad we are at transfers, you’d think eventually we’d get one or two right purely by the law of averages but nearly every single one has been a dud for 10 years. Ten Hag’s are the worst by a mile, we need to replace every single player he’s bought, that’s an incredible level of failure.
Martinez too?
I don't think he has been a fan for very long.
Yeah, the only real succesful signing post-SAF has been Bruno and even he is losing his stature quickly now.
Definitely. He's good when he's fit, but our issue is that he's never fit. I really like him but if he can't stay fit for more than 5 minutes then he needs replacing.
If INEOS had never come in, I'd be resigned to becoming a mid table team
I believe INEOS want United to be built back up towards title challengers again. So there's hope.
I believe INEOS want United to be built back up towards title challengers again. So there's hope.
I've never seen United putting a worse product on the pitch than this season and that is mostly down to the manager!
He is the one picking the players, he is the one teaching and applying the tactics, he is the one who signed most of these expensive flops jogging around these days, he is the one talking to the players during training and in the dressing room, he is the one not able to handle big egos like Sancho or Rashford, he is the one who made a player captain that isn't captain material.
There is zero hope as long as this man is in charge of our product on the pitch.
And we need to get rid of the bad apples too of course.
He is the one picking the players, he is the one teaching and applying the tactics, he is the one who signed most of these expensive flops jogging around these days, he is the one talking to the players during training and in the dressing room, he is the one not able to handle big egos like Sancho or Rashford, he is the one who made a player captain that isn't captain material.
There is zero hope as long as this man is in charge of our product on the pitch.
And we need to get rid of the bad apples too of course.
Same as me .. we need the right guy in and play the right way.. not all these players are bad .. there are a few mind , poor buys as well..
Need a few Stevie Copples , Hills, Macari , etc The Doc changed it , and we need a Manager like that again..
Shame they didn’t come in last summer. Think they would of tried harder for Kane, maybe even Palhinha and Todibo. Thats the window we should of had when we qualified for the champions league last season. We blew the budget on Mount an average Keeper and Hojlund who to me looks like he needed another season with Atalanta. We repeat the sake mistakes over and over again.
San Marino official page in reply to the official Manchester United post following the game last night
San Marino official page in reply to the official Manchester United post following the game last night
When I used to play FM, when my team was in a slump of form I used to play against poor teams to gain some form, so it might do San Marino some good.
Well it's only going to get worse if you check out our fixture list until the season ends! We're likely to finish with a heavy negative goal difference. Worse still, we might end up with Southgate next season (or EtH which is almost as bad). I fear we're witnessing the end.
What are you guys talking about?? We are literally about to begin our title charge!!
100% disagree. Are we a bit crap at the moment? yep! have wasted well over a billion dollars in the last decade? Yep! But at least there are starting to change.
There have been darker moments, The darkest for me was the day we hired Murtough as the director of football, we where crying out for some knowledge from outside the club to come in after the complete $hit show that had been recruitment, manger hiring and simply culture within the club since Fergie left (arguably before) and we go and promote some one who had been at the club the whole time who clearly got the job because he knew how to play the internal politic games at united. He then clearly was well out of his depth was heavily reliant on Ten Hag who had never been significantly involved with transfers before and we waste about 500 million.
At least now there are signs we are bringing in people from outside the club, we have a New CEO coming in, already have a new technical director and hopefully a new DOF.
Of course im still nervous it doesnt look like the DOF will be in place by the summer so it probably means panic decisions which is worrying. Personally I would rather sit on our hand for a year, write next season off to an internal assessment period and get all our ducks in a row for the summer 25 transfer window. But unfortunately the optics of that wont fly as fans have a mental breakdown if we don't make major signings in the 1st week of the window never mind waiting a season to get things right.
There have been darker moments, The darkest for me was the day we hired Murtough as the director of football, we where crying out for some knowledge from outside the club to come in after the complete $hit show that had been recruitment, manger hiring and simply culture within the club since Fergie left (arguably before) and we go and promote some one who had been at the club the whole time who clearly got the job because he knew how to play the internal politic games at united. He then clearly was well out of his depth was heavily reliant on Ten Hag who had never been significantly involved with transfers before and we waste about 500 million.
At least now there are signs we are bringing in people from outside the club, we have a New CEO coming in, already have a new technical director and hopefully a new DOF.
Of course im still nervous it doesnt look like the DOF will be in place by the summer so it probably means panic decisions which is worrying. Personally I would rather sit on our hand for a year, write next season off to an internal assessment period and get all our ducks in a row for the summer 25 transfer window. But unfortunately the optics of that wont fly as fans have a mental breakdown if we don't make major signings in the 1st week of the window never mind waiting a season to get things right.
On the pitch this is a lot worse than previous end-of-season abominations. I do feel, however, off it we are on the right track.
Still felt bleaker after the back to back defeats against Pool and City under Moyes. But yeah this is pretty damn bad.
I was never convinced that signing Hojlund, Mount and Onana plus Amrabat on loan last summer would take us to the next level as opposed to the alternative of making Kane our only purchase while retaining the services of De Gea and Fred. I was quite vocal about this and my posting history around that time reflects this view.
It felt bleaker because we just won the league the previous season, but objectively speaking this slump in form is the worst ever in my decades supporting this club.
Ah, but back then I had hope that it was only a blip. After a decade of blips I feel bleep* right now.
*I've said "bleep" instead of "fecking shite" because I'm trying to cut down on my fecking cnuting swearing.
Agreed. Fans are fickle. When it's good, they think everything is the best. When it's bad, they see the worst.
I remember 1958, that was a bleak year.
As Bob Dylan sang “they say the darkest hour is right before the dawn”
It’s been dark and aimless for a long time. This is as bad as it gets for modern day utd. The only way is up for a club of our means. With competent people should come sensible management and stabilisation and then hopefully growth
It’s been dark and aimless for a long time. This is as bad as it gets for modern day utd. The only way is up for a club of our means. With competent people should come sensible management and stabilisation and then hopefully growth
The only way is up.
O ye of little faith!When Arteta finished 8th in 2019-2021 with Arsenal, I wonder if anyone here thought he was the man to turn things around for them? It’s a genuine question as I’m trying to desperately cling on to any hope of ETH improving us if we end up keeping him. I don’t trust our board to sack him at the end of the season.
Arteta was clearing the decks of deadwood. ETH is signing it.
I’d rather us have a paper thin squad with lots of kids being given a chance, even if it means we don’t compete in the short term, than a team full of the shite our manager has signed. That’s the difference with Arteta and Ten Hag.
This may sound odd but this is probably the most 'optimistic' I've been after the downfall of any of the managers post Fergie. Don't get me wrong, it's still shite and I've not happy at all but this time 'it's different' for me. I'm also very aware, I am probably just coping and rationalising whatever the hope is that I can somehow muster up.
Moyes - wasn't near good enough but poisoned chalice with ageing squad and not being Fergie aka Mr United.
LVG - wasn't near good enough but at least tried to play possession football even if it was completely sterile. Bought some good players but incredible stubborn with rotation and past it when every good team was pressing/counter pressing.
Mourinho - never wanted him, though it did feel like a big club again at times due to his personality and our stars but it ultimately ended how we all knew it would. He was a cnut of the highest order.
Ole - never wanted him with clear signs of the bounce ending after 10 or whatever games it was. Entertaining football with our youngsters being burnt out but it always felt hollow because his coaching and style was never going to be good enough. Can't believe we gave him a new contract after the Europa League Final defeat. Nothing new of what we hadn't seen of the footballing decisions for previous 10 years.
ETH - preferred Poch but was convinced by his Ajax team. Last season for me was the best we've had post Fergie in terms of results, performances, winning a trophy, playing style and recruitment (this one a bit contentious).
This season has pretty much completely undone all of the good work of last year but unlike with previous managers, I think this is the strongest squad left available for the next manager that has actually shown good individual performances with a lot of potential to be moulded and guided. Dalot, Onana, Martinez, Hojlund, Mainoo, Garnacho, Bruno is a strong enough spine with whoever the other filler players (due to injury/contract/value in the summer) like Varane, Casemiro, Maguire, Antony, Malacia etc. On top of that, with the moves we've made at board level, I think we're at least closer to possibly finding the 'right' next manager and structure above to finally become a progressive team that can be consistent and dominant at top four level. It helps that after a decade of instability, I'm now settling for less and therefore managing my expectations/disappointment better as I do not envision any sort of title challenge now/near future, whereas I was vainly holding onto that before.
Of course if we keep ETH and/or replace with Southgate, I will probably go punch the wall.
Moyes - wasn't near good enough but poisoned chalice with ageing squad and not being Fergie aka Mr United.
LVG - wasn't near good enough but at least tried to play possession football even if it was completely sterile. Bought some good players but incredible stubborn with rotation and past it when every good team was pressing/counter pressing.
Mourinho - never wanted him, though it did feel like a big club again at times due to his personality and our stars but it ultimately ended how we all knew it would. He was a cnut of the highest order.
Ole - never wanted him with clear signs of the bounce ending after 10 or whatever games it was. Entertaining football with our youngsters being burnt out but it always felt hollow because his coaching and style was never going to be good enough. Can't believe we gave him a new contract after the Europa League Final defeat. Nothing new of what we hadn't seen of the footballing decisions for previous 10 years.
ETH - preferred Poch but was convinced by his Ajax team. Last season for me was the best we've had post Fergie in terms of results, performances, winning a trophy, playing style and recruitment (this one a bit contentious).
This season has pretty much completely undone all of the good work of last year but unlike with previous managers, I think this is the strongest squad left available for the next manager that has actually shown good individual performances with a lot of potential to be moulded and guided. Dalot, Onana, Martinez, Hojlund, Mainoo, Garnacho, Bruno is a strong enough spine with whoever the other filler players (due to injury/contract/value in the summer) like Varane, Casemiro, Maguire, Antony, Malacia etc. On top of that, with the moves we've made at board level, I think we're at least closer to possibly finding the 'right' next manager and structure above to finally become a progressive team that can be consistent and dominant at top four level. It helps that after a decade of instability, I'm now settling for less and therefore managing my expectations/disappointment better as I do not envision any sort of title challenge now/near future, whereas I was vainly holding onto that before.
Of course if we keep ETH and/or replace with Southgate, I will probably go punch the wall.
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This is the bleakest it has been in my month.
I kind of disagree with the bolded part. There are two dimensions to transfers topics, one is individual level, two is team level (how they fit in). So, on individual level you have to ask yourself if we're really getting less than expected? Players like Antony/Hojlund seem to play like I thought they would play. Martinez has gone up a level for sure. The only player that really stands out is Sancho IMO.
Second level is where we really fail. Pointless transfers that don't solve our problems and create new ones. I for one have no idea what ETH plan for this team was.
Bleakest????
Wait till we get Potter or Southgate.
Wait till we get Potter or Southgate.
I agree with this. With new owners and with hopefully a good new manager, I’m cautiously optimistic, maybe because the amount of shit I’ve seen over the past 11 years would be enough to drive anybody crazy.
Obviously however, if we replace ten Hag with Potter or Southgate, that would be the final nail in the coffin of us being a big club, and it would confirm our status of being a mediocre mid table club. And as was said in the thread about us not having European football next season, there’s a real likelihood that we get them if we finish 8th - the latter of which is the most likely result, although we could easily finish 9th.
Yeah but we had a manager then.
Yes, He is a quality player but he is a consistently injured quality player.