There is an argument to say that our attack need more urgent addressing than our midfield

Revaulx said:
Well I think the OP is absolutely right.

Today reminded me a lot of some of Ralf’s early games where we worked hard, looked really solid, created decent chances but failed to finish.

Oh it was!

Still our inability to score from some good chances was disappointing. It reminded me of some of the early performances under Ralf, when we were well organised, worked hard and created good chances, but let ourselves down with poor finishing. Given the dubious mental fortitude of some of our squad, it would be awful to see heads drop in frustration once more.
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If I was a United player involved today I won't be happy we didn't convert our chances, but I'll be confident in our set up, Ralf good games were against the likes of Middlesbrough and the average EPL side and this was against ATM and there wasn't the same on ball organization we saw today and throughout preseason.
Compare this with our UCL game against them its night and day, we obviously need to get better in our finishing and "tempo control" but a game like this against the average EPL team will result to even more chances for and less chances against.
This is just the start, we'll make more signings, the players will get more and more accustomed to ETH ideas on the long run the potential is massive.
And yes we need one or two additions to attack (a number 9 to replace Ronaldo if he departs and a right winger).
We need someone to be the "tempo controller" as well.
That signing will save a lot of energy because we'll need to press less if we can keep the ball for longer spells.
 
Godfather said:
How exactly? Don't you think we should have got our business done before the season starts and the lack of options in midfield and up front might hurt us already early on? I do think that. It's not ideal at all. It's not the end of the world if we do end up with reinforcements in these positions but it's not what I wished for or what should have happened going into this transfer window.
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None of that bears any relevance to the order in which we get the deals we want done. If we go into a window wanting to strengthen 5 positions, the order in which those deals are done isn’t important. Most important is getting the right players.

And also, I’m not one of these who thinks it is imperative to get all deals done before the season starts. If that were the case, then we may as well close the window when the season starts.We haven’t prioritised a defender over a midfielder for example. We’ve begun our work to sign the midfielder we want months ago. And if the window ends with us getting him, it will not be ‘too late’. We’d have achieved our objectives of the window.
 
We needed major surgery and we are going into the new season patched up with bandaids.
 
2 central midfielder + an unproven youngster. One of the midfielders is a backup at best. It would be insane to go into the season like that.

I agree, that United need another attacker as well.
 
fps said:
This game means little in the grand scheme of things. I don't think Elanga is very good but there are bigger problems. We get consistently overrun.
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Take today's game for example, midfield did a decent job. Managed to control most of the game and we solid throughout(Atletico hardly created anything) but as soon as the ball got to our outlets things broke down. Our outlets in attacks were Rashford and Elanga. Rashford for his part managed to look dangerous when he got the ball, however the right side with Elanga was an utter mess. Kid couldn't do anything right aside from pressing and making runs. Didn't help that Bruno wasn't up for it today either and was loose with the ball.

You put Sancho in today's side and we score at least a goal. So many situations where releasing the ball from Elanga or even just a better first touch would have seen us in goal scoring positions were squandered due to the latter lack of abilities. While our midfield needs upgrading it's at least PL level. Meanwhile our attack aside the main ones isn't even PL level.
 
Trex said:
If I was a United player involved today I won't be happy we didn't convert our chances, but I'll be confident in our set up, Ralf good games were against the likes of Middlesbrough and the average EPL side and this was against ATM and there wasn't the same on ball organization we saw today and throughout preseason.
Compare this with our UCL game against them its night and day, we obviously need to get better in our finishing and "tempo control" but a game like this against the average EPL team will result to even more chances for and less chances against.
This is just the start, we'll make more signings, the players will get more and more accustomed to ETH ideas on the long run the potential is massive.
And yes we need one or two additions to attack (a number 9 to replace Ronaldo if he departs and a right winger).
We need someone to be the "tempo controller" as well.
That signing will save a lot of energy because we'll need to press less if we can keep the ball for longer spells.
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Yes I agree. We are certainly headed in the right direction, and an FDJ or similar will make the team’s life a lot easier.

I still reckon we’ll struggle without a couple of reliable finishers though.
 
Revaulx said:
Yes I agree. We are certainly headed in the right direction, and an FDJ or similar will make the team’s life a lot easier.

I still reckon we’ll struggle without a couple of reliable finishers though.
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I'm not worried about finishing finishing between Martial, Rashford, Sancho, Bruno, Eriksen, Ronaldo/replacement, potential right wing addition plus the rest of the team we'll score goals, we'll miss chances too but all teams do.
We only need to keep the the good things we're doing and look to improve even further.
 
Rozay said:
None of that bears any relevance to the order in which we get the deals we want done. If we go into a window wanting to strengthen 5 positions, the order in which those deals are done isn’t important. Most important is getting the right players.

And also, I’m not one of these who thinks it is imperative to get all deals done before the season starts. If that were the case, then we may as well close the window when the season starts.We haven’t prioritised a defender over a midfielder for example. We’ve begun our work to sign the midfielder we want months ago. And if the window ends with us getting him, it will not be ‘too late’. We’d have achieved our objectives of the window.
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The order itself isn't important that's true. It is however quite important to get them early enough for a new manager to bed them in right away. So waiting until the very final days of the window isn't ideal. Also I'm all up for closing the window before the season starts. It's stupid.
 
We’ve bought a new CB every summer for the past 5 years eating a huge portion of our transfer budget in the process. Meanwhile we leave the midfield wide open….fecking madness.

50m this summer (Martinez)
50m last summer (Varane)
80m in 2020 (Maguire)
35m in 2019 (Lindelof)
33m in 2018 (Bailly)

You can have prime Cannavaro and Nesta at the back they aren’t doing shit with McFred in front of them. Pointless.
 
fps said:
This game means little in the grand scheme of things. I don't think Elanga is very good but there are bigger problems. We get consistently overrun.
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Honestly I don't think our squad had a single bigger problem right now. Any of our front 3 goes down and Elanga starts. That's a problem. If he starts, he's the least talented/premier league ready player in the team. That's usually how I like to address issues. Fix your weaknesses. Our starting 11 is pretty decent to be honest and the "what happens if this player goes down" for every position is relatively fine, apart from the front 3. We at least have talented players or decent potential players, or premier league standard players in whatever backup scenario for everything, apart from Elanga, or Heaton in net for de Gea (but obviously that's a smaller concern).
 
As it happened under all the previous coaches, 3 good games and back again to basics. United need a more cultured midfield. McTominay is very average and Fred is good but not excellent. They both need to be upgraded. As for the attackers, Elanga is not ready. A loan would do. Antony of Ajax (or any other relevant right winger) is required as Sancho is probably better on the left side of the wings. As for Rashford, his character of last year showed a sign again today. Running around like a headless chicken and making bad decisions in the final third. Finally, the team also needs another striker to compete with Martial (regardless of whether Ronaldo stays). So 2 midfielders, a striker and a right-sided winger are required this summer. I would also posit that another right back is required too. Dalot is too slow. Unfortunately the incompetent United board would never deliver them to Ten Hag. This next season is going to be a hard watch at Old Trafford. A disastrous transfer window so far.
 
Santoryo said:
Take today's game for example, midfield did a decent job. Managed to control most of the game and we solid throughout(Atletico hardly created anything) but as soon as the ball got to our outlets things broke down. Our outlets in attacks were Rashford and Elanga. Rashford for his part managed to look dangerous when he got the ball, however the right side with Elanga was an utter mess. Kid couldn't do anything right aside from pressing and making runs. Didn't help that Bruno wasn't up for it today either and was loose with the ball.

You put Sancho in today's side and we score at least a goal. So many situations where releasing the ball from Elanga or even just a better first touch would have seen us in goal scoring positions were squandered due to the latter lack of abilities. While our midfield needs upgrading it's at least PL level. Meanwhile our attack aside the main ones isn't even PL level.
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bosnian_red said:
Honestly I don't think our squad had a single bigger problem right now. Any of our front 3 goes down and Elanga starts. That's a problem. If he starts, he's the least talented/premier league ready player in the team. That's usually how I like to address issues. Fix your weaknesses. Our starting 11 is pretty decent to be honest and the "what happens if this player goes down" for every position is relatively fine, apart from the front 3. We at least have talented players or decent potential players, or premier league standard players in whatever backup scenario for everything, apart from Elanga, or Heaton in net for de Gea (but obviously that's a smaller concern).
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It is mad how so much money has been spent and the squad is so poor.
 
fps said:
It is mad how so much money has been spent and the squad is so poor.
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The biggest reason for our struggles with attacking depth is the Greenwood situation. Can't blame the club for that. Just unfortunate. But he's an obvious need to replace player. Any club would feel a 100m talent being eliminated as an option out of nowhere.
 
Santoryo said:
I know this might sound crazy to some given how glaring and lacking our midfield has been but today's game has shown up the fact that we are really lightweight in attack. Things look all dandy in our attacking play the previous pre season games when we had all our forwards fit and available(aside Ronaldo but that's another story) but just 1 missing out(Sancho) and the drop in quality was massive. Suddenly there were no connections between the forwards and things looked a bit chaotic anytime the ball got to our attackers.

The drop of quality between Sancho and Elanga was brutal. Sure it looked nice and dandy when all of Rashford, Martial and Sancho played but we're not expecting them to be available for every game. Martial will get injured(he already did get hurt in this game) as has been the case the past few seasons and Sancho gets ill once in a while. Not to mention they can't play every game. Then we have the Ronaldo issue, whether he'll stick around or not.

While our midfield is weak, we have bodies in there who'll keep the quality a lot better than our attack when any of our main forwards are out. We essentially only have 4 competent attacking players(and this is presuming Ronaldo sticks around) for 3 positions.
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attack has 2/3 good players and no depth, midfield has Fred
 
Both positions needed more attention than our defense imo. Mainly because in both areas we lack depth of any sort.

It's really hard to tell how are we going to cope with any injuries. I know the window is still open, but we're leaving it a bit late. We'll probably end up with de jong and another forward, which won't be enough if Ronaldo leaves.
 
Logically the Best way forward is 352 with our lack of attacking options
 
bosnian_red said:
The biggest reason for our struggles with attacking depth is the Greenwood situation. Can't blame the club for that. Just unfortunate. But he's an obvious need to replace player. Any club would feel a 100m talent being eliminated as an option out of nowhere.
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Good point. It's a huge shame that he's turned out to be a top talent and a bad guy.
 
Lee565 said:
Logically the Best way forward is 352 with our lack of attacking options
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I'm interested. Biggest weakness would be RWB I think. Dalot would be alright but I'd want a quality attacking RWB option. Narrow front 3 with 3 from Bruno, Martial, Rashford, Ronaldo and Sancho (either in a 343, or 3412). Ball players with Martinez LCB, Lindelof or Maguire RCB, Varane with his pace at CB. Shaw could compete for LWB and LCB for certain opposition.

Advantages: Our current forwards all prefer to be central, so would benefit from wingbacks providing width. Most of our wide forwards don't like tracking back, so having 7 players behind them instead if 6 gives them less defensive responsibility. Bruno further up the pitch so his high risk style and lack of possession game is less harmful. None of our CMs particularly well suited as a 6, so benefit from being more box to box with 3 CBs covering/stepping up into the "connector" position as ETH calls it. Maguire/Lindelof not in a back two where their lack of speed leaves us vulnerable.

I don't think it's likely as we would have seen it in pre season, but it'd suit us best imo.
 
Valencia Shin Crosses said:
That requires really good wingbacks to do effectively.
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I don't know, a good manger can solve the wing back position with good coaching and not needing a world class attacking right back, we saw conte make moses a really effective wing back, same with caudrado at juve, saka at arsenal, valancia was very good in that position under van gaal.

Problem with our right backs is bisska is so poor on the ball that he flatters dalot who just doesn't look like a player good enough for the top level, he wasn't even that impressive at ac milan either hence why they didn't bother to try and keep him on at the club.

I look at garner and whilst he may not be able to make that step up of having the elite quality to dictate play in midfield in the prem league for a top club, he has qualities that could make him a really efficient right wing back, he has a turn of pace, good at carrying the ball up the pitch, his delivery looked really good at nott forest and no surprise he took on a lot of set piece duties, strong workrate, he doesn't shy away from defensive duties and willing to win the ball back.

As for the left side we have malacia who looks more like he would be better suited for wing back with his attacking qualities.
 
If Ronaldo stays we worry about a striker next year. We need another RW. Elanga needs consistent game time every week. He needs to go on loan. He isn’t effective for the first XI.
 
You can't simply not replace a player as good as Greenwood and get away with it.
 
Lee565 said:
I don't know, a good manger can solve the wing back position with good coaching and not needing a world class attacking right back, we saw conte make moses a really effective wing back, same with caudrado at juve, saka at arsenal, valancia was very good in that position under van gaal.

Problem with our right backs is bisska is so poor on the ball that he flatters dalot who just doesn't look like a player good enough for the top level, he wasn't even that impressive at ac milan either hence why they didn't bother to try and keep him on at the club.

I look at garner and whilst he may not be able to make that step up of having the elite quality to dictate play in midfield in the prem league for a top club, he has qualities that could make him a really efficient right wing back, he has a turn of pace, good at carrying the ball up the pitch, his delivery looked really good at nott forest and no surprise he took on a lot of set piece duties, strong workrate, he doesn't shy away from defensive duties and willing to win the ball back.

As for the left side we have malacia who looks more like he would be better suited for wing back with his attacking qualities.
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All of the options you mentioned are ex-wingers though, and we don’t have any good candidates for that spot in the squad currently which was my point.

Also saying Garner can be a wingback is quite frankly absurd. That’s like the old “Lindelof can be a DM” point that people always like to bring up.
 
I don't think we get any other new players in any position unless both Ronaldo leaves and De Jong becomes impossible.
 
Valencia Shin Crosses said:
Can’t be overstated enough how much losing Greenwood fecked our attacking options not only last year but going forward as well.
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No it can't....you lost a kid that was on track to be a world class forward that could score goals and create goals. It left a massive whole in the squad.

we CAN win matches and compete with fred, scott, bruno, eriksen, donny.....mix in garner, hannibal, zidane/savage

we CAN NOT win matches and compete with ronaldo, sancho, martial, rashford......mix in elanga, amad, pellestri. The depth isn't there, the consistency in finishing isn't there and the confidence isn't there

ffs....martial should have buried that chance and put it over the bar, he didn't even make the keeper save it. rashford has been shit for 18 months, ronaldo is 37 and sancho is just starting to find his form.
 
I think I’m most concerned about the right side. If Sancho is injured there is no one else capable of playing the position well. Same goes for right back.
 
AFC NimbleThumb said:
I honestly believe people in the club thought No.11 would be playing for us again by now.
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I can't see it. They'll be well aware of the legal situation and how long it will take. I'd be shocked if he played for us again.
 
bosskeano said:
we CAN NOT win matches and compete with ronaldo, sancho, martial, rashford......mix in elanga, amad, pellestri. The depth isn't there, the consistency in finishing isn't there and the confidence isn't there
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Nothing like a bit of hyperbole on a Saturday evening.
 
Leftback99 said:
I can't see it. They'll be well aware of the legal situation and how long it will take. I'd be shocked if he played for us again.
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We’ll have a gentleman’s wager on that one. If he isn’t found guilty they’ll be an attempt to reintegrate.
 
Lee565 said:
Logically the Best way forward is 352 with our lack of attacking options
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This is why I wanted Sancho to try play as a CAM/CF that can roam left or right from deep and play in either strikers from through balls as he dribbles and takes on the central defenders.

Kind of like a fast dribbling version of Mata at Chelsea.

Rashford -Anthony
Sancho​

Other than that I don’t see how Sancho can play in a front 2 so far up the pitch.
 
Trequarista10 said:
De Jong - Fred - Bruno would be a good enough midfield for one season to reach top 4 and look to upgrade on Fred next season. Eriksen and hopefully Garner can contribute throughout the season. McTominay and Van De Beek need replacing in time but can play backup for now.

Attack is more uncertain. We're essentially relying on all of the following to happen:

- We sign a RW like Antony who hits the ground running
- Ronaldo stays, gels with the team and manager, buys into the pressing strategy instead of reserving his energy and doesn't throw a hissy when subbed or rotated
- Rashford regains form, and adapts to a possesion style of football
- Martial regains form, and doesn't sulk I'd rotated or moved to the wing occasionally
- Sancho steps up a level and produces what people think he's capable of
- Either one our of young forwards step up and become a valuable bench option, or we bring in a young talent like Sesko or Olise - with 5 subs per game, and 4 competitions to compete in including Thursday night games, depth is more important than ever

Are all or even the majority of those thongs going to happen? Odds stacked against it
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This is how I see things. If one or two things don't happen we will be in a tough fight for top 4.
 
AFC NimbleThumb said:
Nothing like a bit of hyperbole on a Saturday evening.
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it's not though....we cant win and compete for trophies with just those 4. that's just the simple truth. We won't make it thru the season with just 2 forwards, one out of form striker and one ageing striker
 
I agree with the OP’s point. We are way too light up front. We need at least one more attacking player, for injury cover at least.

if we get FDJ then great for midfield, but that wasn’t our main problem today. Thought McFred were good today. We should have scored from the chances we created - which just leads me to believe we are going to play Ronnie.
 
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