There is an argument to say that our attack need more urgent addressing than our midfield

Santoryo

ripping the reward
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I know this might sound crazy to some given how glaring and lacking our midfield has been but today's game has shown up the fact that we are really lightweight in attack. Things look all dandy in our attacking play the previous pre season games when we had all our forwards fit and available(aside Ronaldo but that's another story) but just 1 missing out(Sancho) and the drop in quality was massive. Suddenly there were no connections between the forwards and things looked a bit chaotic anytime the ball got to our attackers.

The drop of quality between Sancho and Elanga was brutal. Sure it looked nice and dandy when all of Rashford, Martial and Sancho played but we're not expecting them to be available for every game. Martial will get injured(he already did get hurt in this game) as has been the case the past few seasons and Sancho gets ill once in a while. Not to mention they can't play every game. Then we have the Ronaldo issue, whether he'll stick around or not.

While our midfield is weak, we have bodies in there who'll keep the quality a lot better than our attack when any of our main forwards are out. We essentially only have 4 competent attacking players(and this is presuming Ronaldo sticks around) for 3 positions.
 
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Both need addressing really, it shouldn't be an either or. We need to sign De Jong (or an equivalent) for the midfield and we need at least one forward to come in. Possibly two depending on what happens with Ronaldo.
 
I think we still could do with another DM/CM personally, but I agree attack is our more pressing concern, in particular RW.

I think Ronaldo will stay, but equally wouldn't be surprised if he goes. If he goes, I think it will only happen if we sign another striker.

I think we definitely need a RW.

I think Garner/Savage/Iqbal are better cover for CM depth than Elanga/Pellistri. I think the latter two will still develop nicely and could be good in the future, though.
 
Both were the priority areas and neither have been strengthened. The forward line is undoubtedly stronger though on the basis that we can probably field 3 players who are good enough to play for us there.
 
Pretty obvious we need to strengthen both and I'm sure the plan is to strengthen both but yeah, you could certainly make that argument fairly reasonably.
 
I’ve been saying it for 2 years. Once Rashford and Martial stopped trying / started their walking around bit it was so obvious. You could have Real or Barca midfield and we’d still be losing those games. Rashford and Martial look a lot more interested again at least. I think we need to move on from Ronadlo get a young striker like Sesko and sign Antony. That would be peachy
 
Santoryo said:
I know this might sound crazy to some given how glaring and lacking our midfield has been but today's game has shown up the fact that we are really lightweight in attack. Things look all dandy in our attacking play the previous pre season games when we had all our forwards fit and available(aside Ronaldo but that's another story) but just 1 missing out(Sancho) and the drop in quality was massive. Suddenly there were no connections between the forwards and things looked a bit chaotic anytime the ball got to our attackers.

The drop of quality between Sancho and Elanga was brutal. Sure it looked nice and dandy when all of Rashford, Martial and Sancho played but we're not expecting them to be available for every game. Martial will get injured(he already did get hurt in this game) as has been the case the past few season and Sancho gets ill once in a while. Not to mention they can't play every game. Then we have the Ronaldo issue, whether he'll stick around or not.

While our midfield is weak, we have bodies in there who'll keep the quality a lot better than our attack when any of our main forwards are out. We essentially only have 4 competent attacking players(and this is presuming Ronaldo sticks around) for 3 positions.
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If Ronaldo stays we'll need a right winger only, in midfield we need to get De Jong and that's it.
The reaction to today's result is a bit more negative than I'll expect ATM could pull up this result against anyone and I think overall our performance was positive.
 
Rozay said:
Both were the priority areas and neither have been strengthened. The forward line is undoubtedly stronger though on the basis that we can probably field 3 players who are good enough to play for us there.
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But the concern is their fitness. Martial hasn't managed to stay healthy for 2 seasons now and I don't expect him to. After seeing the drop in quality when one of our main forwards is out and we replace him with the alternative(in today's case, Elanga), I'll be rushing to bring in another quality option forward.

Replace Elanga today with Sancho and we likely would have been up a goal or 2 at half time.
 
Not really, just imagine if Fred gets injured or even McTominay.

Most people agreed that both areas are the highest priority this season and yet we haven't added one player to either position.
 
Yes, current options aren't clinical enough. We should have won today, but lack of clinical finishing means we lost. When was the last time we had the best CF? why are we settling now for dross?

I don't get those looking only at the midfield; Martial had two easy chances.
 
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Rozay said:
Both were the priority areas and neither have been strengthened. The forward line is undoubtedly stronger though on the basis that we can probably field 3 players who are good enough to play for us there.
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Yeah, it isn't an either/or situation: both are urgent priorities.

It feels like we're constantly playing catch-up with our squad issues because we never seem to have a big, 'aggressive' transfer window where we sign 6-7 players in one go. We never do major surgery, just minor amendments that don't touch the core of the squad.
 
-> Need a DM and CM
-> Need better forwards

-> Sign CB and LB
-> ??? Profit
 
Trex said:
If Ronaldo stays we'll need a right winger only, in midfield we need to get De Jong and that's it.
The reaction to today's result is a bit more negative than I'll expect ATM could pull up this result against anyone and I think overall our performance was positive.
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I'm actually happy with today's performance. I personally don't care about the result and been very encouraged with the performance. With the performance we showed, be it pressing, structure and intent, better attacking options would have seen us score goals. Replace Sancho with Elanga and I'm willing to bet we would have at least scored a goal in the first half.

Reason I'm highlighting this issue in attack is because I felt like this game was let down by the quality forward. We played well and did enough to win that game but with better attacking options in situation Elanga found himself, we would have sealed the win. It's just chocking to me the drop in quality when Sancho is out. That right size which has been great this pre season became obsolete.
 
No, a coherent midfield would make both our attack and our defence look much better.

I appreciate there's a worrying lack of options, but a strong midfield adds steel, control, and goals. We haven't been able to rely on it for any, except occasionally steel, for a long time.
 
Idxomer said:
Not really, just imagine if Fred gets injured or even McTominay.

Most people agreed that both areas are the highest priority this season and yet we haven't added one player to either position.
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You can still mix it in midfield. You could still play with two 8s in Bruno and Erickson with either of Fred or McTomminay sitting. Our attack though, 1 main forward injured means the quality takes a massive drop.
 
It is at least as imporant. Without a question the positions with the most glaring holes in our squad. Haven't adressed them yet.
 
Said it other day in other thread. Once one of the front 3, Sancho, Rashford or Martial gets injured it will go belly up.

Others not good enough to step in a do the job. Elenga today instead of Sancho, not good enough.

We need 2 attackers and a Midfielder and a better attacking RB, Dalot not good enough to start for us to push for top 4.

Can see improvements in our patterns of play but players there not good enough at end if the day. ETH heart will be broken with the squad he has if no more new players are bought in.
 
Well I think the OP is absolutely right.

Today reminded me a lot of some of Ralf’s early games where we worked hard, looked really solid, created decent chances but failed to finish.
Trex said:
If Ronaldo stays we'll need a right winger only, in midfield we need to get De Jong and that's it.
The reaction to today's result is a bit more negative than I'll expect ATM could pull up this result against anyone and I think overall our performance was positive.
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Oh it was!

Still our inability to score from some good chances was disappointing. It reminded me of some of the early performances under Ralf, when we were well organised, worked hard and created good chances, but let ourselves down with poor finishing. Given the dubious mental fortitude of some of our squad, it would be awful to see heads drop in frustration once more.
 
Idxomer said:
Not really, just imagine if Fred gets injured or even McTominay.

Most people agreed that both areas are the highest priority this season and yet we haven't added one player to either position.
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We just have way more flexibility in midfield though if we get injuries. Van de Beek and Eriksen can play in the 8 role, Garner can play the 6 or 8, Martinez can cover there if need be as well. Up top its basically our starting 3, Ronaldo if he decides he wants to play, and then a massive drop off. The only alternatives are playing either Eriksen or Bruno as a winger/false 9 which is far from ideal.
 
fps said:
No, a coherent midfield would make both our attack and our defence look much better.

I appreciate there's a worrying lack of options, but a strong midfield adds steel, control, and goals. We haven't been able to rely on it for any, except occasionally steel, for a long time.
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We had pretty good control for large parts of the game today. Especially in the first half, things broke down with the attackers, not in midfield. I agree a good midfield helps massively, but Elanga, Pellistri, and co would still be well below the needed quality playing in front of a midfield from City or Liverpool.
 
marktan said:
-> Need a DM and CM
-> Need better forwards

-> Sign CB and LB
-> ??? Profit
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The order in which players walk through the door is irrelevant. It is well-documented that we are trying to sign a particular midfielder and forward.
 
Rozay said:
The order in which players walk through the door is irrelevant. It is well-documented that we are trying to sign a particular midfielder and forward.
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It's not irrelevant if you aren't ready for the start of the season
 
Rozay said:
The order in which players walk through the door is irrelevant. It is well-documented that we are trying to sign a particular midfielder and forward.
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But not a DM and neither Sesko nor Antony will happen.
 
De Jong - Fred - Bruno would be a good enough midfield for one season to reach top 4 and look to upgrade on Fred next season. Eriksen and hopefully Garner can contribute throughout the season. McTominay and Van De Beek need replacing in time but can play backup for now.

Attack is more uncertain. We're essentially relying on all of the following to happen:

- We sign a RW like Antony who hits the ground running
- Ronaldo stays, gels with the team and manager, buys into the pressing strategy instead of reserving his energy and doesn't throw a hissy when subbed or rotated
- Rashford regains form, and adapts to a possesion style of football
- Martial regains form, and doesn't sulk I'd rotated or moved to the wing occasionally
- Sancho steps up a level and produces what people think he's capable of
- Either one our of young forwards step up and become a valuable bench option, or we bring in a young talent like Sesko or Olise - with 5 subs per game, and 4 competitions to compete in including Thursday night games, depth is more important than ever

Are all or even the majority of those thongs going to happen? Odds stacked against it
 
fps said:
No, a coherent midfield would make both our attack and our defence look much better.

I appreciate there's a worrying lack of options, but a strong midfield adds steel, control, and goals. We haven't been able to rely on it for any, except occasionally steel, for a long time.
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No midfield makes Elanga have any less of a rapey touch or mane him able to pass the ball. Our midfield did actually play well in this game, had control for the most part and did put us in some promising position but opportunities were sometimes wasted by our guys in front. Few times all it would have taken was just either Elanga release the ball or have a better first touch for us tobe in proper goal scoring positions.

Sancho in today's game would have seen us score, I'm pretty sure of it. Midfield had a decent game.
 
People go overboard with the "we'll never finish top four if Player X is still starting for us" type comments

Spurs finished their last season with Matt Doherty having ousted Emerson as first choice right-back. Arsenal seem to be going into this season with Xhaka as a starting midfielder. And we've previously finished in the top four relying on the McFred midfield and a Maguire-Lindelof CB pairing among other flaws.

You don't have to be that good to finish top four. Better than we currently are, sure, but not so good that you won't still have some relatively shite players featuring regularly in your starting eleven.
 
Rozay said:
It is.
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How exactly? Don't you think we should have got our business done before the season starts and the lack of options in midfield and up front might hurt us already early on? I do think that. It's not ideal at all. It's not the end of the world if we do end up with reinforcements in these positions but it's not what I wished for or what should have happened going into this transfer window.
 
Its not an argument at all. Midfield we have 6 premier league level footballers available, 3 of which we are comfortable with starting (Fred, Bruno, Eriksen). In attack we have 4 premier league footballers, one is 37 and wants out desperately, and the others we aren't sure if we can trust their fitness. If they have no depth, you KNOW you can't trust their fitness, because nobody can keep fitness without depth.

Going into the season without Frenkie or a new DM is fine, we can manage with Eriksen, Martinez filling in when required, Donny getting game time, Bruno, fred, McTominay, Garner getting a bigger role, etc. Even Zidane has shown more talent to have hope he can make the step up to a squad role than any young attacker has. It is entirely clear to me that Amad, Elanga, Hannibal, Pellistri, Garnacho shouldn't be in a senior Manchester United squad and if they ever have to play, it's a problem for us. Not yet for some of them, not ever for others.

Midfield is a normal "we need to upgrade this" position. Attack is "we are desperate for options" position.
 
Santoryo said:
No midfield makes Elanga have any less of a rapey touch or mane him able to pass the ball. Our midfield did actually play well in this game, had control for the most part and did put us in some promising position but opportunities were sometimes wasted by our guys in front. Few times all it would have taken was just either Elanga release the ball or have a better first touch for us tobe in proper goal scoring positions.

Sancho in today's game would have seen us score, I'm pretty sure of it. Midfield had a decent game.
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This game means little in the grand scheme of things. I don't think Elanga is very good but there are bigger problems. We get consistently overrun.
 
Red-17 said:
We had pretty good control for large parts of the game today. Especially in the first half, things broke down with the attackers, not in midfield. I agree a good midfield helps massively, but Elanga, Pellistri, and co would still be well below the needed quality playing in front of a midfield from City or Liverpool.
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I agree those players are below the required quality. No issue with that for me.

But our first team midfielders aren't good enough, and to me that's a bigger issue right now than our backup attackers.
 
jamesjimmybyrondean said:
There's no need to prioritise. We have no excuse not to buy in both positions this window
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Do we not? We have a lot of attacking players - I mean we finished 6th last year and teams in and around us would absolutely fecking savage other teams for the players that we have.
 
It’s true though. Up front We’ve gone from having generational and the most important players for their national teams. Ronadlo Rooney Tevez Berba RVP and even Lukaku to players like waining Ronadlo Martial and woefully unfit and out of form Rashford. The level of investment and innovation in the position has massively dropped off since Lukaku failed.
 
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