Yes. And yes.
There is absolutely no justification in calling for Mourinho's head
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Yes. And yes.
He won 2 trophies for us in his first season. In the history of MUFC, no manager has ever won 2 trophies in his first season.
Given the above, you concluded that Jose's a has been?
Let's be honest, I haven't seen anything from the likes of Mikhi, Mata and Herrera this season that suggests they're doing well and lacks an attacking manager to make them better. If the only player is in the manager we would have seem glimpse of great plays from these players, which isn't happening, so let's be honest. Only Rashford and Martial will be improved by an offensively-minded manager but that's it.
He won the Europa League and league cup. While trophies, they're not major ones.
I come to the conclusion he's declined from various poor big games since he left Real. That disastrous 3rd season at Chelsea and poor league season with us after he was going for the title initially.
And the fact that maybe we've scored 1 away goal vs the top 6 since Jose has arrived after spending incredible amounts on the squad.
Don't disagree. Those 3 players are not good enough for a title winning team. But again this lies on the manager. He knew the squad he had. He had a season to evaluate.
Most of us said our attack was a problem last season and we needed 2 strong additions. We just bought an Ibra replacement and thought it'd be alright.
Would other managers have been satisfied with Young/Darmian/Blind at LB too as well?
Don't disagree much with this. That's what Mourinho should be blamed for as I said in his assessment thread. He should have invested more in the squad this summer.
There isn’t any justification in calling for his head but beyond this season there has to be a rethink.
Squad needs a good clear out and a number of positions strengthened and better tactics, not convinced Jose is man to do that because he doesn’t stick around long enough.
I wouldn’t be shocked to see him at PSG next season.
Squad needs a good clear out and a number of positions strengthened and better tactics, not convinced Jose is man to do that because he doesn’t stick around long enough.
I wouldn’t be shocked to see him at PSG next season.
He needs to go and take his anti-football with him and be replaced by anyone who is pro-football. We need a manager who is more fearless , positive and believes in playing fast , dynamic football. Wherever I look around Europe it seems successful teams are playing with inventiveness , intensity and confidence (and they defend decently too).
Mourinho is outdated and being out thought by other managers who can bring out the best in players instead of squeezing the life out them. Whenever we play anyone good we can't unlock them at all. Even the Spurs goal was a hoof and a defensive error. He's just not a good fit for a club like us with our traditions. Let's face it , he will be off within 2 years anyway so what's the point?
United need someone positive and pro football with a 10 year + plan. Jose is basically a journey man who has half an eye on PSG and for that reason alone he should go now.
Mourinho is outdated and being out thought by other managers who can bring out the best in players instead of squeezing the life out them. Whenever we play anyone good we can't unlock them at all. Even the Spurs goal was a hoof and a defensive error. He's just not a good fit for a club like us with our traditions. Let's face it , he will be off within 2 years anyway so what's the point?
United need someone positive and pro football with a 10 year + plan. Jose is basically a journey man who has half an eye on PSG and for that reason alone he should go now.
The one thing that is my big worry - and that is a BIG worry. I still don't see any real improvment in the way we play football. Yes, our results have been better - but that is mainly because we have better players than we had last season - we still don't look like a team. We have 11 individuals who often win football games because player by player - they usually are better than the opposition. But Mourinho still is nowhere near making a team that is better than the parts. And we are miles away from Manchester City.
If city were't playing so well no one would be over reacting this much. Get a grip, we are improving every season and are still second. Pogba is hugely important for us and he should be back soon. Winning the league is very unlikely now but we will be fine.
3 seasons to create a squad of players with some quality, and get the deadwood out. While getting us qualified for CL. Then most likely a new coach. Interesting to see how what the status is after the end of this season should we continue to play like this. Still think most fans wouldn't mind some Pochettino.
When are Chelsea getting a new stadium?
I think Poch could take us to another level after Jose installed winning mentally and counter-attacking in United system. He won't improve Mihki, Mata or Herrea but he'll get rid of them and replace with academy graduate coming from youth and new player. If he has a vision for the team he wants to rebuild and make them play the way he wants then give him an unlimited chequebook, why not?? He could get Kane, Alii and Eriksen to play for him again at Manchester United cos we can offer them a wage.
Martial, Pogba and Rashford have potential to be world class, its shame that they won't shive under Jose. They will shive if they were coached by a manager with attacking style
I'm looking at City and PSG then realized our squad is completely shit after spending the amount of money equal to City and PSG in 4 years, they are club exactly what we are supposed to be. We are the only club that can compete with them financially
Now I actually remembered that United is in transition at the moment, I don't want it to be fecked again after LVG and Moye. if he didn't build our squad to be really strong that are capable of beating top side away, then he got to go.
I am starting to dislike Mourinho because he keeps Mikhi as a starter every game when we can get a better player than him in that position. There is no competition in that position. Lingard is championship level and Mata is finished, it's not surprising there is no better player than Mihki cos they're all shit. So can we give Adian Barlow (attacking midfielder) a chance to replace Mihki? He's been impressing in UEFA Youth and under 18 EPL, he's playing in the same formation (4-3-2-1) as Jose's usual formation, he has 6 goals and 2 assist in just 10 games
Not all players are great on their first season in the PL though. Di Maria was garbage for United. A lot of players need more than one season in the PL to come good. He is 23 so still time. I have my doubts about him but we will have to be patient unfortunately.
Strawmans. Each document is insular.
Its not calling for his head its the general apathy towards a great manager because people can't get passed the issue. We had the greatest manager of all time. We all enjoyed it. Enjoyed him, loved him. We'll tell our kids about him. But the one true rival was the manager we have now. Let's meet him half way. He knows he's never gonna be SAF. Just like Zlatan will never be Cantona.
Let this team and manager grow into what they can be and you might see us become a Milan that batters the dream team 4-0.
I think Poch could take us to another level after Jose installed winning mentally and counter-attacking in United system. He won't improve Mihki, Mata or Herrea but he'll get rid of them and replace with academy graduate coming from youth and new player. If he has a vision for the team he wants to rebuild and make them play the way he wants then give him an unlimited chequebook, why not?? He could get Kane, Alii and Eriksen to play for him again at Manchester United cos we can offer them a wage.
Martial, Pogba and Rashford have potential to be world class, its shame that they won't shive under Jose. They will shive if they were coached by a manager with attacking style
I'm looking at City and PSG then realized our squad is completely shit after spending the amount of money equal to City and PSG in 4 years, they are club exactly what we are supposed to be. We are the only club that can compete with them financially
Now I actually remembered that United is in transition at the moment, I don't want it to be fecked again after LVG and Moye. if he didn't build our squad to be really strong that are capable of beating top side away, then he got to go.
I am starting to dislike Mourinho because he keeps Mikhi as a starter every game when we can get a better player than him in that position. There is no competition in that position. Lingard is championship level and Mata is finished, it's not surprising there is no better player than Mihki cos they're all shit. So can we give Adian Barlow (attacking midfielder) a chance to replace Mihki? He's been impressing in UEFA Youth and under 18 EPL, he's playing in the same formation (4-3-2-1) as Jose's usual formation, he has 6 goals and 2 assist in just 10 games
I don't disagree much with wanting Poch here after Mourinho reign. Was just wanting we only have 2 or 3 attacking players that Poch can develop, the rest aren't performing because they're average/poor and you seem to agree with me saying he'll replace them. I'll blame Mourinho heavily if he doesn't get a new number 10 and RW next summer to fill these spaces.
T H I S. Couldn't have said it better myself. For the past couple of years I see individuals with little or no clue on the pitch. It's as if they are meeting just before the game, have a short chat and then are supposed to play a football match. And this begs the question: What is being done during the training sessions? Do they practice set pieces? I'd say no, because our corners are still atrocious, maybe they are practicing some linkup play? Don't think so. To be honest I am seriously baffled how these footballers are preparing themselves prior to the game(s).
JM is one of the best managers in the world right now. Zidane for his exploits last season and Pep for his proven track record! Other than them 2 Jose is the only other world class manager who could handle a giant club and reputation like ours. Some would argue Pottechino but lets see him win some trophys before putting him in the leagues with above mentioned. Some may even argue Klopp but he isnt exactly setting Liverpool alight is he.
All in all Jose is the best possible manager we could of got and one who im sure the board trusts to take this club through this transition.
2nd in the league, in the knock out stages of the champions league I dont see what the problem is. People moan about out style of football but thats because Pogba is missing pr we would be playing the free flowinh attacking football we did at the start of the season.
I call for calm! Some of you are becoming very RAWKish!
All in all Jose is the best possible manager we could of got and one who im sure the board trusts to take this club through this transition.
2nd in the league, in the knock out stages of the champions league I dont see what the problem is. People moan about out style of football but thats because Pogba is missing pr we would be playing the free flowinh attacking football we did at the start of the season.
I call for calm! Some of you are becoming very RAWKish!
Am sorry to say but I have never fancied him as a manager, mostly because of the way he sets his team up. Too negative for me.
Always reactionary and never proactive. The team looks cowardly against any decent good on the ball opposition.
Personally will give him till end of the season and see how things are. But those expecting a better quality of football should forget it.
He has spent as much as Guardiola with no much improvement, and if you think Guardiola inherited a better team then LVG had that united closer to city than Mourinho has us closer to this peps team.
I personally feel the game has passed him by and most top attacking progressive players wouldnt want to play under him.
Always reactionary and never proactive. The team looks cowardly against any decent good on the ball opposition.
Personally will give him till end of the season and see how things are. But those expecting a better quality of football should forget it.
He has spent as much as Guardiola with no much improvement, and if you think Guardiola inherited a better team then LVG had that united closer to city than Mourinho has us closer to this peps team.
I personally feel the game has passed him by and most top attacking progressive players wouldnt want to play under him.
He is the only chance we have of surviving the Pep era. There is no one else I'd rather have at this club at the present time.
I have never been a fan of Mourinho, not as a football manager, but as a human being, (for example, anyone in his position who calls the club doctor a 'goats whore' because she was doing her job needs to get a grip). What is undeniable of course is Mourinho's record of winning things and the high esteem he is held in by his players - you rarely hear any of them saying anything negative about him. The fact is, that managers, like players, lose their 'magic touch'. Dalglish never recaptured his success after Liverpool, Wenger has lost it at Arsenal, Mancini, Ancelloti etc. Mourinho HAS done it at multiple clubs and he did win the 'also rans' trophies last year, but his last job ended in ignominy and he is facing competition now who have moved onto a much higher level. In short, he cannot be and probably never could have been our long term manager and a process to replace him in a year or two must be on the agenda. Other clubs have done it - City had a three year plan to get Guardiola (oh how I wish we had him rather than Jose). We should have a plan to get a progressive relatively young manager at the end of next season, which back in the day, is exactly what Mourinho used to be back in the day.
Not me, I'm calmy either. I knew from the first, we are not challanging for a title and we went from 6th last season to 2nd currently, that's a massive achievement for us and know that Jose is not going to stay here for longer but I trust him with a chequebook to sign any player he wants than any mangers and rebuild our fecked up squad that LVG and Moye left them in mess.
That might work against the very best teams, and I mean the very best, but did we have a single counter attack today?
Because we can’t do It doesn’t mean it’s not the style.
The problem he has it that everything was gooing fine until HE set up the team to draw 0-0 at Anfield, and then HE decided to mouth off to the media about wanting to manage another club. These two things turned a positive start to the season into a cloud of negativity even before the results and performances follwoed suit (and I'd wager the two are linked), and since then everything has been seen in negative.
A lot of the criticism in that time has been unjustified, but not all of it, and it's hard to argue he hasn't brought it upon himself. He doesn't help himself with his ridiculous stubborness, because if you actually want to see him in negative and criticise/pick him apart, it isn't that difficult to do so, especially when results aren't going the right way. I mean just off the top of my head.
- Unsing a system which he doesn't seem to understand and doesnt suit any of our players apart from Ashley Young.
- The fact you know what changes he will make and when during a game in most situations, because they are the same ones each time, regardless of whether they actually work or not.
- Continued picking of Mhikitaryan despite him not offering neearly enough to the team game after game. The same player he dropped for months last year for the same reason.
- Not thinking it's important that your main corner take knows how to take a corner.
- Uber negativity late in games, even if it means delberately sacrificing a degre e of control
- Long ball tactics in ANY game we are losing, agaiin regardless of the situation.
- Baffling insistence on using Fellaini to do things that Fellaini is somehwere between not very good and comically bad at (e.g. anything that isn't getting on the end of crosses.
All of these things are pretty hard to defend with logical answers. They are just mistakes, and mostly come dowwn to Jose being too stubborn admit he ever makes such a thing. When we are losing gmes they also overshadow any of the good work he is doing, which for me would allso be a consierablle list. It does eventually get to a point though where you wonder if the goood work has hit a glass ceiling until/unless he is willing to change the areas where his management holds us back. I'm not sure we're at that glass ceiling yet but eventually we will be, and at the end of the day there is a reason why he never lasts long in a job.
A lot of the criticism in that time has been unjustified, but not all of it, and it's hard to argue he hasn't brought it upon himself. He doesn't help himself with his ridiculous stubborness, because if you actually want to see him in negative and criticise/pick him apart, it isn't that difficult to do so, especially when results aren't going the right way. I mean just off the top of my head.
- Unsing a system which he doesn't seem to understand and doesnt suit any of our players apart from Ashley Young.
- The fact you know what changes he will make and when during a game in most situations, because they are the same ones each time, regardless of whether they actually work or not.
- Continued picking of Mhikitaryan despite him not offering neearly enough to the team game after game. The same player he dropped for months last year for the same reason.
- Not thinking it's important that your main corner take knows how to take a corner.
- Uber negativity late in games, even if it means delberately sacrificing a degre e of control
- Long ball tactics in ANY game we are losing, agaiin regardless of the situation.
- Baffling insistence on using Fellaini to do things that Fellaini is somehwere between not very good and comically bad at (e.g. anything that isn't getting on the end of crosses.
All of these things are pretty hard to defend with logical answers. They are just mistakes, and mostly come dowwn to Jose being too stubborn admit he ever makes such a thing. When we are losing gmes they also overshadow any of the good work he is doing, which for me would allso be a consierablle list. It does eventually get to a point though where you wonder if the goood work has hit a glass ceiling until/unless he is willing to change the areas where his management holds us back. I'm not sure we're at that glass ceiling yet but eventually we will be, and at the end of the day there is a reason why he never lasts long in a job.
Poetically and beautifully put. We were spoilt under SAF. Time to move on. I think we're heading in the right direction under Mourinho, for what it's worth. We finished 6th last year so this season was never going to be without hiccups.
Mourinho out. Was a supporter of him initially but his constant negative vibe and barbs with other managers that constantly backfire are getting tedious. Can't help but feel that he's starting to stink out the place as well as throwing the players under the bus whenever we lose. Its never about him
His football while better than what Moyes and LVG is still negative when compared to the likes of pep. And dont give me the rubbish that the squad is unbalanced. He's had several windows and money on par wirh City to replenish the squad.
His football while better than what Moyes and LVG is still negative when compared to the likes of pep. And dont give me the rubbish that the squad is unbalanced. He's had several windows and money on par wirh City to replenish the squad.
I'm not only against sacking Mourinho, I believe it would be majestically moronic. Despite all the whining, we're doing fine. There are always some crap periods during a season. If it persists and we finish sixth perhaps I'll change my mind, but United today is far cry from the Moyes and Van Gaal.
In a sense bad results are more frustrating though, since I as a fan have some belief ex ante. While our previous geniuses was excellent in trigger a state of absolute apathy.
In a sense bad results are more frustrating though, since I as a fan have some belief ex ante. While our previous geniuses was excellent in trigger a state of absolute apathy.
Ok so we now have one person calling for him to be sacked.
Not calling for his head but i'd wait on that contract renewal if I was Ed.
Premier League Table after 11 games post-Fergie.
We're only 2 points better off than in 2015-16, but that season we were already out of the league cup at this point, and ended up placing 3rd in our Champions League group in 2015-16, which makes this the strongest start to a season post-fergie, despite one of our key players having been out for quite a while. Add to that the trophies Mourinho picked up last year.I think it's ridiculous to be calling out for Mourinho's head at this point.
We're only 2 points better off than in 2015-16, but that season we were already out of the league cup at this point, and ended up placing 3rd in our Champions League group in 2015-16, which makes this the strongest start to a season post-fergie, despite one of our key players having been out for quite a while. Add to that the trophies Mourinho picked up last year.I think it's ridiculous to be calling out for Mourinho's head at this point.
I'm sorry but anyone calling for Jose Mourinho to get the sack needs to get their head tested, Of course yesterday's defeat was shit, But we're making progress under him, Why is it some of our fans are desperate for Mauricio Pochettino, He's play good football, That's fair enough, But he hasn't won anything at Tottenham, I thought we wanted winners at our club, Not a manager that wants to put pressure on title rivals, I'm getting fed up with some of our fans disrespect our manager, I don't want us to turn into Real Madrid, Where we sack a manager every season, I want stability.
11 games against the top 6 away from home without a win, and one goal in the last 10 games away from home against the top 6. Simply shocking and not good enough
It proves that it's not the players but the way he has set it up and instructs them. It proves that he is not thinking of winning any of those games and confirms the observation of caftards that we don't even look like we want to score because of Mourinho's zero risk policy.
That is fundamentally different to "oh but Fergie's teams also played ugly in those fixtures...".
while I think Jose is part of a problem i don't think he is the biggest problem. The problem lies in our squad. DDG, Bailly, Pogba, Matic, Martial....only 5 genuinely good players in this squad and few decent (Jones, Rashford). I know it's unrealistic but we need a wholesale change to squad.
The way I see it, the manager should only be sacked if a suitable replacement is already lined-up and since Moyes is available we should do it immediately! /s
Also I'd get rid of like 80% our squad before getting rid of Jose.
Also I'd get rid of like 80% our squad before getting rid of Jose.
Becoming negative as LVG now it seems
I gave up the moment Chelsea scored
I gave up the moment Chelsea scored
Yes agree. We were discussing this in @Pogue thread on Friday. I think there was a poll "would you be happy with a draw" My take on it, I would be happy with a draw but only if we attempt to win the game. We dont do that. This was all predicatable before the match started. Shocking management
Wouldnt mind seeing the back of him. He's persistantly negative for several matches now and trading barbs that backfire spectacularly. Add in throwing the players under the bus for every loss or draw, its never his fault. It's getting pretty tiresome and looking like his pre collapse at Chelsea before his sacking. The only reason why we're still in second is that our rivals have failed to kick on except for city and that we had a relatively easy start and oh, some luck.
This. Zero risk LVG but to a lesser degree but still dire and boring at times. Look at how Pep is running away with the league. He addressed thier deficiencies from the get go and has city set up attacking beautifully whil we struggle to get a shot on target for 4 matches now.
Dire.
We didn’t play free flowing attacking football at the start of the season. We just scored quite a few goals. There’s a bit of difference there.
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