Television The Witcher | Netflix | There are book spoilers here

Redlambs said:
Well let's remake Black Panther with the cast of Gavin and Stacey and see who moans then...
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I wouldn't watch it purely because James Corden would be involved and he's a massive twat.
 
Ødegaard said:
Reading comprehension is overrated anyway!
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;) Yeah it is.


Mr Pigeon said:
I wouldn't watch it purely because James Corden would be involved and he's a massive twat.
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Would people moan if we made a film about his life but recast him as a massive mechanical turd?

I mean, there's not enough robotic shits in films anyway...
 
Redlambs said:
;) Yeah it is.




Would people moan if we made a film about his life but recast him as a massive mechanical turd?

I mean, there's not enough robotic shits in films anyway...
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I'm struggling to figure out if you're comparing a black actor playing a previously white character to James Corden being replaced with a mechanical version of James Corden. My brain hurts now. I need a drink.
 
Mr Pigeon said:
I'm struggling to figure out if you're comparing a black actor playing a previously white character to James Corden being replaced with a mechanical version of James Corden. My brain hurts now. I need a drink.
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Well I'd suggest using a real lump of shit, but it'd be hard to animate.

And too close to Corden. Full circle.
 
Some complaints are OTT
It was like the whole James bond being black and the retort being how would black people like it if a white person played MLK :nervous:

Anyway I'm looking forward to season 2 and to see how they play out the season. Can't see it being as one off episodic as this season was in terms of overall story (more focused on the bigger storyline imo)
 
Annihilate Now! said:
So I've just found out that apparently some people are upset because the actress that plays Fringilla is black :lol:

People are the worst
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Been done to death, but for people who have read the books and played the games, changing the appearances of characters is not cool. Additionally, her backstory had to be changed because of that (which I cannot go on without spoiling stuff).

People moan cause of these things. We moaned that the Belters are not taller than Earth people in the Expanse, something that is repeated many times in the books (heck Holden in the first chapter mentions how he hated that Naomi towers over him).

Dunno why moaning about all these things is okay, but God forbid, if someone moans that a character’s race (and so backstory) is changed, then he is a racist and bigot.
 
Revan said:
Been done to death, but for people who have read the books and played the games, changing the appearances of characters is not cool. Additionally, her backstory had to be changed because of that (which I cannot go on without spoiling stuff).

People moan cause of these things. We moaned that the Belters are not taller than Earth people in the Expanse, something that is repeated many times in the books (heck Holden in the first chapter mentions how he hated that Naomi towers over him).

Dunno why moaning about all these things is okay, but God forbid, if someone moans that a character’s race (and so backstory) is changed, then he is a racist and bigot.
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https://www.imdb.com/title/tt5180504/reviews?sort=helpfulnessScore&dir=desc&ratingFilter=1
Have a look at those and tell me they're not overwhelmingly racially motivated.

Regarding Fringilla: I think the show established pretty consistently that the populations of all countries are ethnically diverse. There's Calanthe's personal bodyguard knight dude, there's at least one in Renfri's gang, there's black elves and dryads... That way, Fringilla's ethnicity is simply irrelevant.
 
Revan said:
Been done to death, but for people who have read the books and played the games, changing the appearances of characters is not cool. Additionally, her backstory had to be changed because of that (which I cannot go on without spoiling stuff).
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I've the books and played TW3, and Fringilla's skin color has no relevance to the story. Her backstory did not *have* to be changed, the show *chose* to

I don't see what is there to complain about, beyond not wanting to see a multi-racial cast, or being soooo married to the books that any slight deviation would constitute a fatal flaw, in which case fringilla's skin color should be faaaaaar down to list of complaints, honestly
 
As someone who has only played the games, can't say I cared for Frigilla's skin colour. The actress fit pretty well with his she was portrayed in the show.
 
I liked it but talking to some of the Polish people that I work with, they were not too impressed, too western, not enough Eastern European flavour, bland.
 
giorno said:
I've the books and played TW3, and Fringilla's skin color has no relevance to the story. Her backstory did not *have* to be changed, the show *chose* to

I don't see what is there to complain about, beyond not wanting to see a multi-racial cast, or being soooo married to the books that any slight deviation would constitute a fatal flaw, in which case fringilla's skin color should be faaaaaar down to list of complaints, honestly
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Arguably her main defining characteristic is that she looks very much like Yen. Heck, Geralt falls in love with her to some degree cause she looks like Yen, and calls her Yen while they are fecking.

Second thing, she is the cousin of Ana Herrieta, the duchess of France of that world.

At the time, she was the first cast from Nilfgaardian, and many people were worried that the entire Nilfgaardian empire will be case as black people (and they are called Blacks in the books cause of the armour). Considering that they are the bad guys, do slavery etc, you can see why some people were worried.

To be fair, these are books set mostly in medieval Poland. Even if there were no black people in the show (though there are black people in the books), it would have been alright, similar to how there were no white people in The Black Panther and it was good. Diversity for the sake of diversity is stupid IMO. And as a fan of both books and the games, I hoped that they stayed true as much as possible to the source material and don't make needless changes. Which they kind of didn't, already massively changed Fringilla's origin story.

Of course, you can make whatever changes you want and still tell a coherent story. They can make Yen a male, both him and Geralt gays, make Ciri a male, and still tell (in high level) the same story. Or just change Yen's and Geralt's genders. Or actually don't change, but swap their names. I mean if Geralt was called Yen and Yen was called Geraltine you can tell the exact same story, but people would still moan. And I guess be racists. Or sexists.
 
GhastlyHun said:
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt5180504/reviews?sort=helpfulnessScore&dir=desc&ratingFilter=1
Have a look at those and tell me they're not overwhelmingly racially motivated.

Regarding Fringilla: I think the show established pretty consistently that the populations of all countries are ethnically diverse. There's Calanthe's personal bodyguard knight dude, there's at least one in Renfri's gang, there's black elves and dryads... That way, Fringilla's ethnicity is simply irrelevant.
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I did. Some of them are definitely racists, no doubt there. At the same time, you have posts like this where the OP accusses everyone who didn't like the choice as a racist.

Extremists are in both sides.
 
Revan said:
Arguably her main defining characteristic is that she looks very much like Yen. Heck, Geralt falls in love with her to some degree cause she looks like Yen, and calls her Yen while they are fecking.

Second thing, she is the cousin of Ana Herrieta, the duchess of France of that world.

At the time, she was the first cast from Nilfgaardian, and many people were worried that the entire Nilfgaardian empire will be case as black people (and they are called Blacks in the books cause of the armour). Considering that they are the bad guys, do slavery etc, you can see why some people were worried.

To be fair, these are books set mostly in medieval Poland. Even if there were no black people in the show (though there are black people in the books), it would have been alright, similar to how there were no white people in The Black Panther and it was good. Diversity for the sake of diversity is stupid IMO. And as a fan of both books and the games, I hoped that they stayed true as much as possible to the source material and don't make needless changes. Which they kind of didn't, already massively changed Fringilla's origin story.

Of course, you can make whatever changes you want and still tell a coherent story. They can make Yen a male, both him and Geralt gays, make Ciri a male, and still tell (in high level) the same story. Or just change Yen's and Geralt's genders. Or actually don't change, but swap their names. I mean if Geralt was called Yen and Yen was called Geraltine you can tell the exact same story, but people would still moan. And I guess be racists. Or sexists.
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You talk sense, but I gave up on arguing as some people can't see the logical reasoning why many people don't like the changes without screaming "RACISM" all the time like a broken record.
 
Revan said:
Arguably her main defining characteristic is that she looks very much like Yen. Heck, Geralt falls in love with her to some degree cause she looks like Yen, and calls her Yen while they are fecking.

Second thing, she is the cousin of Ana Herrieta, the duchess of France of that world.

At the time, she was the first cast from Nilfgaardian, and many people were worried that the entire Nilfgaardian empire will be case as black people (and they are called Blacks in the books cause of the armour). Considering that they are the bad guys, do slavery etc, you can see why some people were worried.

To be fair, these are books set mostly in medieval Poland. Even if there were no black people in the show (though there are black people in the books), it would have been alright, similar to how there were no white people in The Black Panther and it was good. Diversity for the sake of diversity is stupid IMO. And as a fan of both books and the games, I hoped that they stayed true as much as possible to the source material and don't make needless changes. Which they kind of didn't, already massively changed Fringilla's origin story.

Of course, you can make whatever changes you want and still tell a coherent story. They can make Yen a male, both him and Geralt gays, make Ciri a male, and still tell (in high level) the same story. Or just change Yen's and Geralt's genders. Or actually don't change, but swap their names. I mean if Geralt was called Yen and Yen was called Geraltine you can tell the exact same story, but people would still moan. And I guess be racists. Or sexists.
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The books being based in 1980s Poland don't reflect a show being based in a fantasy continent made by a modern secular USA production. If fiction is a representation of the period it's made then certain aspects can and will be updated.

The over the top strawman arguments at the end of your post aren't something that hits home with me, but that's not what sticks with me. It's this insistence that any non white actor who gets a role never gets it through merit but because of some secret diversity quota that has to be seemingly met that raises my eyebrows.
 
evil_geko said:
You talk sense, but I gave up on arguing as some people can't see the logical reasoning why many people don't like the changes without screaming "RACISM" all the time like a broken record.
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Your logical reasoning consisted of telling people that they were SJWs if they didn't agree with you. In fact your entire mantra was "I'm right and my posts are inspired, and everyone else is just plain wrong".
 
Mr Pigeon said:
Your logical reasoning consisted of telling people that they were SJWs if they didn't agree with you. In fact your entire mantra was "I'm right and my posts are inspired, and everyone else is just plain wrong".
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Of course that's how you see it, I wouldn't doubt you see it any other way, oh boy! :lol:
 
Revan said:
Arguably her main defining characteristic is that she looks very much like Yen. Heck, Geralt falls in love with her to some degree cause she looks like Yen, and calls her Yen while they are fecking.

Second thing, she is the cousin of Ana Herrieta, the duchess of France of that world.

At the time, she was the first cast from Nilfgaardian, and many people were worried that the entire Nilfgaardian empire will be case as black people (and they are called Blacks in the books cause of the armour). Considering that they are the bad guys, do slavery etc, you can see why some people were worried.

To be fair, these are books set mostly in medieval Poland. Even if there were no black people in the show (though there are black people in the books), it would have been alright, similar to how there were no white people in The Black Panther and it was good. Diversity for the sake of diversity is stupid IMO. And as a fan of both books and the games, I hoped that they stayed true as much as possible to the source material and don't make needless changes. Which they kind of didn't, already massively changed Fringilla's origin story.

Of course, you can make whatever changes you want and still tell a coherent story. They can make Yen a male, both him and Geralt gays, make Ciri a male, and still tell (in high level) the same story. Or just change Yen's and Geralt's genders. Or actually don't change, but swap their names. I mean if Geralt was called Yen and Yen was called Geraltine you can tell the exact same story, but people would still moan. And I guess be racists. Or sexists.
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I'm with you on this. Tom cruise to be the next black panther :drool:
 
Revan said:
Arguably her main defining characteristic is that she looks very much like Yen. Heck, Geralt falls in love with her to some degree cause she looks like Yen, and calls her Yen while they are fecking.

Second thing, she is the cousin of Ana Herrieta, the duchess of France of that world.

At the time, she was the first cast from Nilfgaardian, and many people were worried that the entire Nilfgaardian empire will be case as black people (and they are called Blacks in the books cause of the armour). Considering that they are the bad guys, do slavery etc, you can see why some people were worried.
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But that's wrong
Geralt does not in any wat sort of fall in love with Fringilla, not anymore than he does with any other woman he sleeps with more than once. Her looking a bit like Yen and reminding Geralt of her is a very minor thing and easy enough to fix.

As to her being cousin to Ana Henrietta, again, why exactly is that an issue? Cast Ana Henrietta as black too. Or don't. They're cousins, ffs. They can look different. Plus, it's a fecking fantasy world, one in which DNA shenaningans are canon, too!

I can kind of understand eastern europeans, especially polish, feeling like they kind of "stole" the material from them to make it more palatable to western audiences and having a problem with that. (But then the main complaint should be directed at Sapkowski for handing his work into western hands)

But otherwise? I stand by my point. No way should cast be your primary issue, unless your issue is racially-motivated
 
One Night Only said:
It's nothing to do with not wanting to see a multi racial cast. It's the PC brigade being over PC as usual, there's a bunch of characters who aren't described at all in the books they could portray with whatever ethnicity they want.
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More people talking sense in this thread, wow!

But yeah, the bolded part is pretty much nailed.
 
evil_geko said:
whether you and other SJW want to admit or not, even Hollywood people are starting to mention how they had to pick this and that because of diversity.
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evil_geko said:
Feck off too kindly, cheers!

And for the record, I didn't call you SJW, you decided to pull that context out for yourself, and then started insulting me first while telling me "I can't have adult conversation" ? You are so full of all kinds of shite, so yeah, feck off if you can't talk without insulting.
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You're a fecking hypocrite if you think you've been somehow slighted by people here. You've made outlandish statements and whenever someone has called you up on it in you've called them ignorant or SJWs and frankly you're now at the point where you're still trying to push this "I'm the victim here narrative" because people are questioning why the only two characters in the shoe you have a problem with just happen to be the two who were white in the books but aren't in the show.

I'll say it once again; Ciri and Cavill look nothing like their book counterparts except being white so what the feck is ok about them that isn't ok about Yen and Triss?!

I'm happy to have an actual conversation if you are, but it not only needs you to not call me an SJW but to also at least have the fecking balls to admit that you did earlier when it's there for all to see. That goes for anyone that you talk to in life, btw. Get rid of the automatic defensive attitude when someone questions your beliefs.
 
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Mr Pigeon said:
You're a fecking hypocrite if you think you've been somehow slighted by people here. You've made outlandish statements and whenever someone has called you up on it in a polite way you've called them ignorant or SJWs and frankly you're now at the point where you're still trying to push this "I'm the victim here narrative" because people are questioning why the only two characters in the shoe you have a problem with just happen to be the two who were white in the books but aren't in the show.

I'll say it once again; Ciri and Cavill look nothing like their book counterparts except being white so what the feck is ok about them that isn't ok about Yen and Triss?!
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I am done arguing with people who's only argument is yelling "racism". Cheers.

I am just glad I am starting to see posts with actual sense on here. I was starting to thing this thread is hopeless regarding the casting argument.
 
evil_geko said:
I am done arguing with people who's only argument is yelling "racism". Cheers.

I am just glad I am starting to see posts with actual sense on here. I was starting to thing this thread is hopeless.
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You can't even respond to my last point with anything other that "boo hoo I'm the victim"? Not nice when people just brush off your comments because they don't agree with them, is it??
 
Revan said:
Arguably her main defining characteristic is that she looks very much like Yen. Heck, Geralt falls in love with her to some degree cause she looks like Yen, and calls her Yen while they are fecking.

Second thing, she is the cousin of Ana Herrieta, the duchess of France of that world.

At the time, she was the first cast from Nilfgaardian, and many people were worried that the entire Nilfgaardian empire will be case as black people (and they are called Blacks in the books cause of the armour). Considering that they are the bad guys, do slavery etc, you can see why some people were worried.

To be fair, these are books set mostly in medieval Poland. Even if there were no black people in the show (though there are black people in the books), it would have been alright, similar to how there were no white people in The Black Panther and it was good. Diversity for the sake of diversity is stupid IMO. And as a fan of both books and the games, I hoped that they stayed true as much as possible to the source material and don't make needless changes. Which they kind of didn't, already massively changed Fringilla's origin story.

Of course, you can make whatever changes you want and still tell a coherent story. They can make Yen a male, both him and Geralt gays, make Ciri a male, and still tell (in high level) the same story. Or just change Yen's and Geralt's genders. Or actually don't change, but swap their names. I mean if Geralt was called Yen and Yen was called Geraltine you can tell the exact same story, but people would still moan. And I guess be racists. Or sexists.
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Her relationships are still intact like in the books, and I wouldn't be surprised to see Ana Herrieta be portrayed by a black actress as well. It will be interesting to see if she and Geralt get together in the upcoming seasons, or if they change that part of the story.

I can understand if Slavs aren't used to some of the changes, but as someone that grew up in the western world, I find it completely natural to see black or mixed actors in the cast, such as Fringilla's uncle in the mages circle. They clearly went for entertainment rather than historical accuracy, like Vikings.
 
Mr Pigeon said:
Oh feck right off mate. You can't even respond to my last point with anything other that "boo hoo I'm the victim"? Not nice when people just brush off your comments because they don't agree with them, is it??
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Feck off back at ya, cheers mate.

All in all, I am fine with casting after I watched it, but can understand people that have (reasonable) complains with it.

The thing I will have complains about is if they don't flesh out Geralt more in second season and they make it a "Yennefer show" again.
 
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It's not set in medieval Poland though, is it? It's not even a fictional country within our world like Black Panther. It's set in a fantasy world, and an inconsistent one at that. Fans of a series which doesn't put a huge amount of thought into world-building its cultures (beyond using a P-Celtic language-based place names to signify Elves) can't suddenly turn round and claim that a character being black ruins the immersion for them.
 
Can't believe they changed the character Terry Troglablight into Barry Bogtroll all for the sake of "inclusion". I thought this was Witcher not Woker. Get fecked.
 
evil_geko said:
Feck off back at ya, cheers mate.

All in all, I am fine with casting after I watched it, but can understand people that have (reasonable) complains with it.

The thing I will have complains about is if they don't flesh out Geralt more in second season and they make it a "Yennefer show" again.
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As a white male, I want to thank you so much for your tireless fight for my rights and representation, fending off women and not white enough people. /s
 
Revan said:
Arguably her main defining characteristic is that she looks very much like Yen. Heck, Geralt falls in love with her to some degree cause she looks like Yen, and calls her Yen while they are fecking.

Second thing, she is the cousin of Ana Herrieta, the duchess of France of that world.

At the time, she was the first cast from Nilfgaardian, and many people were worried that the entire Nilfgaardian empire will be case as black people (and they are called Blacks in the books cause of the armour). Considering that they are the bad guys, do slavery etc, you can see why some people were worried.

To be fair, these are books set mostly in medieval Poland. Even if there were no black people in the show (though there are black people in the books), it would have been alright, similar to how there were no white people in The Black Panther and it was good. Diversity for the sake of diversity is stupid IMO. And as a fan of both books and the games, I hoped that they stayed true as much as possible to the source material and don't make needless changes. Which they kind of didn't, already massively changed Fringilla's origin story.

Of course, you can make whatever changes you want and still tell a coherent story. They can make Yen a male, both him and Geralt gays, make Ciri a male, and still tell (in high level) the same story. Or just change Yen's and Geralt's genders. Or actually don't change, but swap their names. I mean if Geralt was called Yen and Yen was called Geraltine you can tell the exact same story, but people would still moan. And I guess be racists. Or sexists.
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How is diversity 'for the sake of it' stupid, when minorities in the majority of industries will struggle to get jobs, in comparison to their white counterparts? Do you get the concept?
 
evil_geko said:
Feck off back at ya, cheers mate.

All in all, I am fine with casting after I watched it, but can understand people that have (reasonable) complains with it.

The thing I will have complains about is if they don't flesh out Geralt more in second season and they make it a "Yennefer show" again.
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It certainly didn't feel as the Yennefer show to me. They gave her a bit more backstory compared to the books, where her past is revealed more gradually, but that's it. I would advise you to get used to Geralt not being a classical main character, it's like that in the books as well. He's just one of three, with Ciri and Yen being the others.
 
No love for Martin Freeman and Andy serkis eh?

The discussion is not the discussion I thought we would get on Witcher which is a shame
 
Ainu said:
It certainly didn't feel as the Yennefer show to me. They gave her a bit more backstory compared to the books, where her past is revealed more gradually, but that's it. I would advise you to get used to Geralt not being a classical main character, it's like that in the books as well. He's just one of three, with Ciri and Yen being the others.
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I'd even say Ciri is quite clearly the main character of the novel series.

Sylar said:
The discussion is not the discussion I thought we would get on Witcher which is a shame
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I'd also love to leave the tiresome discussion about the cast behind and talk about the actual content and qualities of the series.
 
Enjoyed it. A bit all over the place at times but looking forward to Season 2 where I reckon it'll be a lot tighter and maybe have a bit more financial backing as it looked a bit cheap at times, CGI and certain costumes especially.
 
Ainu said:
It certainly didn't feel as the Yennefer show to me. They gave her a bit more backstory compared to the books, where her past is revealed more gradually, but that's it. I would advise you to get used to Geralt not being a classical main character, it's like that in the books as well. He's just one of three, with Ciri and Yen being the others.
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I know, I read the books, but in season one Yennefer already got much more backstory than in the books, which I have nothing against, just want same for Geralt in second season, he literally got least character development out of all three.
 
evil_geko said:
I know, I read the books, but in season one Yennefer already got much more backstory than in the books, which I have nothing against, just want same for Geralt in second season, he literally got least character development out of all three.
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I'd say we got plenty of Geralt screen time in the first season. It felt pretty balanced to me.
 
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