Has anything been detailed about it’s effectiveness in age-groups? Is it as effective with older people?
The vaccines | vaxxed boosted unvaxxed? New poll
- Thread starter Badunk
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That makes sense. I suppose in time work could be done on using several vectors to reduce the chance of pre-existing immunity, and maybe testing individuals for immunity first to decide which version to give them. Trying to develop a viral vector that people couldn't develop immunity to might not be such a good idea though.
But potentially up to 90+% with a second shot.
Buy it twice - which still works out as cheaper than a single shot of any other vaccine - and you're looking at the go-to vaccine option for most.
That wouldn’t be too clever alright!But actually 90% with the regime that will be given once approved. Excellent news.
Isnt that potential criticism with the benefit of hindsight? You’d always assume that the majority of orders would have been placed on the domestically developed vaccine, that is of course from a timing perspective when eficacy rates were unknown.
Surely had we plumped for Pfizer, that would have been a stroke of luck rather than anything else...
I'm guessing they're reserving the moderna/pfizer vaccines for the elderly and most vulnerable, whereas the rest of us will be jabbed with the Oxford one. They'll have to justify ordering those 100million jabs somehow.
I wonder if people will kick up a fuss as to which vaccine they'll be getting - can see quite a few being displeased at being allocated the 'inferior' AZ/Oxford one.
I wonder if people will kick up a fuss as to which vaccine they'll be getting - can see quite a few being displeased at being allocated the 'inferior' AZ/Oxford one.
You can't always account for stupidity.
Well by the time most people are eligible for a shot they'd have a years worth of data to fall back on, bearing in mind testing started as early back as April. But I don't expect many ignorant people will take that into account and will assume the clock starts in December.
Most of those idiots will soon change their mind once the media spin changes to “X% of people REFUSING to take MIRACLE vaccine dying in hospitals”
Huh? I'm not sure you understand either the evidence nor statistical probability.
What does this even mean?
Some people that haven't taken the flu vaccine have died. Probably some people that have taken the flu vaccine have also died from flu. It's not as effective as these vaccines in that regard, after all. But we know they have died. We know people die from flu and covid. And we have a good understanding of the biological mechanisms that cause that process that repeats itself over and over again. It's not a kind of mysticism that an unusually large number of people are dying from a very similar set of symptoms that also align with testing positive for a specific protein that identifies covid. It's a virus that kills many and infects magnitudes more.
Too early to come to that conclusion. We don’t yet know which regime will be approved. It looks as though the 90% efficacy cohort has much lower patient numbers, which could be a problem when it comes to getting a license. They’ll be kicking themselves they didn’t go with that dose in the Phase III trial, that’s for sure.
Oxford vaccine result a little underwhelming?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...eneca-covid-vaccine-everything-we-know-so-far
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...eneca-covid-vaccine-everything-we-know-so-far
Some people will only take it if they know somebody who has received it and been ok - you could tell them that 2 million people have taken the vaccine with no side effects and that will have no impact until Doris down the road gets it and seems ok.
Why is 90% as stated for one half followed by a full dose underwhelming?
It isn't, but it might feel underwhelming if people just read some of the very misleading and frankly irresponsible headlines that some papers are leading with citing 70%
Oxford vaccine: How did they make it so quickly? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55041371
I agree that they have royally cocked up the media release of these results, especially to a completely uneducated audience who have only been primed with the Pzier and Moderna results, with no understanding on what they mean.
My elderly mum who has been isolating since March just rang me up in a state of confusion, worried that she’s still be very vulnerable if she took Oxford vaccine and I had no meaningful reply to give.
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Give very vulnerable or elderly people the Moderna one and give main population or those under 50, the 90% version of Oxford one?
Wasn't it a chimp virus though? How many people have pre-existing immunity to chimp cooties?
Surely Oxford are going to need more data from test cases of people receiving the dose levels that led to 90% efficacy? Perhaps they've messed up a bit by not doing more of that..
Twas indeed a chimp virus but possible there’s some cross-reactivity to similar human viruses.
Oh jeez, once the loons find out it's a chimp virus there's going to be more of them than ever. It's going to turn us all into chimpanzees I tell you, and you can't prove otherwise.
Yeah they do. Seems too preliminary at the moment to get excited about it being on a par with the other vaccines efficacy.
I don't think they messed up. I think it's one of the reasons why you have to trial things on thousands of people in real world situations.
I'm guessing the serology testing from Phase 1/2 wasn't clear cut enough to identify the correct dose. Hence taking both to trial. Certainly it suggests that the half/full pattern is as good as the full dose version. More data will arrive fairly quickly, this is just the first release from the review panel.
Someone needs to start sneakily putting up Planet of The Apes posters in GP waiting rooms.
Is it true that Moderna/Pfizer trials didn’t screen and test participants weekly like the Oxford trials meaning their data didn’t pick up asymptomatic cases? Suppose that works both ways though as the placebo group wouldn’t have been screened either.
The UK won't get the Moderna vaccine until April at the earliest. They hadn't actually ordered it until the results came out last week, then rushed through a small 5m order and are right at the back of the queue. It's Pfizer or bust for that particular cohort.
There's lots of problems with this framing though.
I believe that moderna have announced all of their 2020 doses will be given to the USA only. The cold chain required for a vaccine needing storage at - 80 Celsius is immense and I doubt easily scalable on a national level immediately, even for countries like the USA, Germany, UK etc.
I doubt most countries will be vaccinating more than their very high risk cohorts and health care workers in the next couple of months, especially with vaccines like the Pfizer one, which will need huge infrastructure.
You also say that the UK hadn't ordered the moderna until a few days ago... Which is exactly what the EU had done too. There's nothing particularly unique about that..
When exactly are novovax and the others releasing their vaccines, especially considering they haven't even released their phase 3 data yet? (I mean technically no company has properly yet I believe)?
So if 20% of the UK population will have caught Covid by the end of the second wave, that would mean only another 50% would have to become immune for herd immunity to be reached.
If the AZ vaccine is 90% effective, around 56% of the never infected population would need to take the vaccine to take us up to 70% of the 'herd' being immune.
That's 37m people, or 74m doses. At £3 per pop, that's roughly what it'd cost to buy two Jadon Sanchos.
If the AZ vaccine is 90% effective, around 56% of the never infected population would need to take the vaccine to take us up to 70% of the 'herd' being immune.
That's 37m people, or 74m doses. At £3 per pop, that's roughly what it'd cost to buy two Jadon Sanchos.
From what I've read , that certainly seems to be the case, though I don't believe those companies have released their data yet so will wait to see what it says.
Puts a slight downer on the results for me personally but still very impressive nonetheless.
So one Neymar, or 74m does of vaccine.
Either way, it's a lot of money to pay for a little prick.
Oxford/Boris have obviously chased the biggest profit opportunity rather than producing the very best vaccine.
The clinical trials, enrolling over 24,000 participants from diverse racial and geographical groups in the UK, Brazil and South Africa, will now continue to final analysis. Further trials are being conducted in the United States, Kenya, Japan and India and the trial team expect to have under 60,000 participants by the end of the year. These trials will provide regulators with further information about the efficacy and safety of the Oxford candidate vaccine, including its ability to both protect against and stop the transmission of COVID-19.
The clinical trials, enrolling over 24,000 participants from diverse racial and geographical groups in the UK, Brazil and South Africa, will now continue to final analysis. Further trials are being conducted in the United States, Kenya, Japan and India and the trial team expect to have under 60,000 participants by the end of the year. These trials will provide regulators with further information about the efficacy and safety of the Oxford candidate vaccine, including its ability to both protect against and stop the transmission of COVID-19.
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That's why i say maybe i was wrong to say it was totally down to putting all eggs in one basket, and some is down to bad luck. It so happened that two of the three leading the vaccine race are the ones the UK has ordered the least of.
The EU's has used that approach all along. They have concluded negotiations but then waited until the last minute to confirm orders, and used their buying power to push up the list. The UK by contrast has been quick to sign deals early but all reports suggest they had decided to opt out of the Moderna vaccine.
Those other vaccine dates are estimates. Some of them are still in phase 1 or 2 and i believe Valneva is still pre-trial.
That's a bizarre way to view it. No one knew what would happen at Phase 3 until we got Phase 3 results. We still don't know anything about longevity of protection, protection/tolerance results for people with comorbidities or the real life manufacturing and distribution constraints. We always needed and continue to need multiple options. As the virus mutates we may need even more.
Beyond that, whatever can be done in small, densely populated, wealthy countries like the UK will not be applicable to big chunks of the world where even vaccine projects distributing fridge stable vaccines struggle with logistics.
Isn't it a weakened common cold virus of chimpanzees? So, humans should not have pre-existing immunity to it, right?