He instigated a riot and an invasion of the capitol, he's pardoning all those convicted, he is guilty of rape, he's guilty of fiddling election spending, the man is a fecking felon and he was elected with more votes than last time. He didn't even put his hand on the bible when he was inaugurated
The Trump Presidency - Part 2
- Thread starter The Boy
- Start date
That‘s it, he won‘t condemn Russia for their atrocities, but tries to engineer excuses for their invasion.
It would not have happened had Ukraine been admitted to Nato.
I’ve little faith in both mainstream political camps. Each have their thinly veiled self-serving agendas that masquerade as game-changing interventions to serve the public’s interest. The entire political enterprise in America (as seen from a non-American living very far way) seems to be a playground for rich entitled narcissists to make themselves feel like they’re doing something good for society when they take some time out from being rich capitalists.
Like their father!
Yeah, it's much more likely that the US simply gets a succession of MAGA presidents, starting with Vance.
Agree. The Trump kids are getting nowhere near the presidency, in any kind of normal election. They are coked up, whiny, weird, fake or all of the above. There is none of Trumps magic sauce.
Even with an endorsement from daddy, they would still need to drive turnout, which they can’t.
If there is a GOP primary next time, it’s going to be super interesting.
I don’t know if there will be more than one MAGA candidate. Likely it will just be Vance. But there is bound to be some ‘return to normalcy’ candidates as well, Nikki Haley style.
No problem. I was at work today so apologies for the late reply.
The context of that particular interaction in the thread revolved around learning from history, and followed on from my general contention throughout that the 'West' had contributed to the current situation in Ukraine. Moses' reply referenced Hitler. Now I'm going to to resist creating another tangent here because one of the legacies of WW2 that grates with me is that so many subsequent wars have been framed with references to it, i.e. tyrant X is a Hitler; saviour Y is a Churchill, and the diplomat Z (usually called an 'appeaser’) is a Chamberlain. Back to Moses' reply below:
To which I replied with (just keeping the relevant part):
I mentioned that for obvious reasons, because the Treaty of Versailles led to significant resentment in Germany after WWI, contributing inevitably towards the rise of extremism and extremist political parties after the war. In other words, it contributed towards the very rise of the megalomaniac with ultra nationalistic ideas and a huge army that Moses brought up (unless of course he was referring to someone else).
So...what I’m comparing here is how 'our' decisions and 'our' actions contribute to behaviour and actions elsewhere. I’m highlighting cause and effect; action and reaction. That’s where the comparison lies. I'm not comparing what actually happened to the USSR in the 1990s to the Treaty of Versailles. The fall of the Soviet Union was a great thing. It was an evil empire and fundamentally anti-human. Anyone who laments its fall is a bloody fool...not to mention probably dangerous.
I’ll take this back to the newspaper interview with George Kennan, the architect of America’s ‘containment policy’ strategy to oppose Soviet expansionism during the Cold War, that I posted a couple of days ago and highlight the relevant parts.
He lamented the policy of NATO expansionism; stating: “I think it is the beginning of a new Cold War. The Russians will gradually react quite adversely, and it will affect their policies. I think it is a tragic mistake. There was no reason for this whatsoever. This expansion would make the Founding Fathers of this country turn over in their graves.” He goes on…”We have signed up to protect a whole series of countries, even though we have neither the resources nor the intention to do so in any serious way.” This was starkly laid bare last week.
“I was particularly bothered by the references to Russia as a country dying to attack Western Europe. Don’t people understand? Our differences were with the Soviet Communist regime. And now we are turning our backs on the very people who mounted the greatest bloodless revolution in history to remove that Soviet regime..."It shows so little understanding of Russian history and Soviet history. Of course there is going to be a bad reaction from Russia, and then (the NATO expanders) will say that we always told you that is how the Russians are - but this is just wrong.”
So not only was the current situation in Ukraine in some way predictable, it was also in some way predicted. That's where the comparison lies therefore: with how 'our' decisions and 'our' actions have contributed to the situation.
Perhaps however Red in STL is right and this is all just a moot point now anyway. Discussing it now isn't going to make any difference. The only sympathy I have in this is for the Ukrainians, and what matters most right now is that Ukraine gets the best outcome and best deal that it can.
Isn’t it also possible that Russia would be just as expansionist without NATO adding more countries?
They’re an empire, invading other sovereign countries is what they do. Going to war is what most countries have done on a regular basis.
Russia in all likelihood would have already invaded Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania if they weren’t part of NATO. I doubt many people in those countries think joining was a mistake, or would blame NATO for what’s happening in Ukraine.
Did Sweden and Finland make a mistake joining NATO? It would follow it must be if George Kennan is right.
I would say the failure to unify the former USSR countries with the rest of Europe is a contributing factor because Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania are free of Russian soldiers. The ones who didn’t join are the ones in trouble.
Ah right, there will probably have to be just 1 MAGA heir to the Trump empire.
Trump should have been unelectable in 2016, let alone in 2024, yet here we are. Americans have comfortably elected a "person" who is a racist, a sex criminal, a pathological liar and a coup plotter. "Unelectable" doesn't mean anything any more.
what do you think the odds are for a trump kid becoming the next president?
Can see Trump’s economic decisions having the same impact on the US economy as Brexit has.
Unless you're a woman. Then you are unelectable.