The Title Race 2017/18 | Done and dusted.

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I disagree they were looking the far more convincing side, once we went one up we looked more like scoring than they did and we even had the better chance, players get injured but also players get sent off, to say City were lucky that Mane got sent of for a red card offence isn't anything to do with luck, we had to replace Ederson with Bravo which some would say was equaling things up anyway.

Morata was fair enough but then it's down to the manager to bring another striker on, I can't see how those two incidents equal a feck ton of luck when we've also had decisions like Walkers sending off v Everton.

Mane's red card was feckin stupid from him and is something he most likely won't do again, especially not against us which is what I meant by getting the luck of the draw. You guys got a big break in a (usually) very tough fixture - one of a few fixtures that could be the difference between us and you. Also saying losing Ederson is the same as Liverpool losing Mane is laughable. Mane is their best player by a mile, Ederson and Bravo are both good keepers. It's true you guys had a few chances, but are we forgetting Salah's chance against you guys too? A lot went on that game and losing Mane certainly made things a lot easier for you guys.

Chelsea don't have another good striker though. Batshuiya or whatever his name is is not the level of player required for a club like Chelsea. Also having the best player in the league when on form recovering from a broken toe or whatever it is helped. You've had decisions like Walker against Everton, true, but what you're forgetting is Everton is fecking wank. The fact that you didn't win that game is baffling enough. Everton will get slapped by most of the top sides this season, home and away, if they don't improve. Games against teams like that won't be the difference imo.

I'm not taking anything away from City btw, you guys have been excellent this season. I just feel like you are getting those lucky breaks which will get you over the line come the end of the season.
 
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Knowing Liverpool they'll put in their performance of the season against us. Not to add we won't have our best player available. Not as confident going into it as most on here seem to be. Liverpool were looking the better side to me against City before Mane's sending off and their pace is deadly with Coutinho seemingly back in the side and settled.

I'm hopeful but I wouldn't he surprised at all if we lost. Hoping for a trademark Herrera big game performance he's capable of.
Klopp's style of play suits Mourinho very well. I can't help but seeing an United win.
 
Any point dropped against the lower teams will be costly to both us and City who I think are favorites for the title. I think we'll both steamroll most of them as the gap between the top and bottom teams is pretty wide this season, as most of the teams currently from 14-20th position are pure shite.Title will be won by who gets more points in the big games amongst ourselves,Chelsea,Spurse,Arse etc. This is where I think City will have an advantage as they go all out to win these games while Jose typically approaches these games not to lose
 
No, Klopp's style is naive.
Not in games against the other top six sides. In fact it would be fairer to say Klopp's approach in the big games is anything but naive.

He's too one dimensional when it comes to games against some of the other sides in the league.
 
Not in games against the other top six sides. In fact it would be fairer to say Klopp's approach in the big games is anything but naive.

He's too one dimensional when it comes to games against some of the other sides in the league.
Yeah, my bad. You have a big record against the top sides. Still think Josè knows how to beat you well though.
 
I disagree they were looking the far more convincing side, once we went one up we looked more like scoring than they did and we even had the better chance, players get injured but also players get sent off, to say City were lucky that Mane got sent of for a red card offence isn't anything to do with luck, we had to replace Ederson with Bravo which some would say was equaling things up anyway.

Morata was fair enough but then it's down to the manager to bring another striker on, I can't see how those two incidents equal a feck ton of luck when we've also had decisions like Walkers sending off v Everton.

Salah missed a one v one minutes after you scored. Had Mane got to the ball a second earlier he probably would have scored instead of being carded. Things definitely went in your favour that game.
 
Salah missed a one v one minutes after you scored. Had Mane got to the ball a second earlier he probably would have scored instead of being carded. Things definitely went in your favour that game.
Things went in our favour because Ederson made a save from Salah and Ederson got to the ball first? That’s just football. Basically you’re lucky every game because De Gea is fantastic and makes top performances all the time?..

I also think the lad saying Morata going off injured was lucky for us too but then completely dismissing Aguero and Mendy getting injured as “injuries happens all the time” is talking rubbish. What abit that ludicrous sending off against Everton? You can’t just be selective to push the agenda. We are just playing well and beating good sides, nothing more to say for now.

Bournemouth was lucky, though.
 
Things went in our favour because Ederson made a save from Salah and Ederson got to the ball first? That’s just football. Basically you’re lucky every game because De Gea is fantastic and makes top performances all the time?..

I also think the lad saying Morata going off injured was lucky for us too but then completely dismissing Aguero and Mendy getting injured as “injuries happens all the time” is talking rubbish. What abit that ludicrous sending off against Everton? You can’t just be selective to push the agenda. We are just playing well and beating good sides, nothing more to say for now.

Bournemouth was lucky, though.

Losing AGUERO was bad but losing a player during a match is even more bad and that's how you were helped. Also, the fact that Hazard was hardly match fit helped you big time and then add conte's stupid tactics. All these combined and off course you lot playing well helped you guys. The point is Chelsea will be more ready come November 4th when they face us. Also they faced At. Madrid in a high paced match just 3 days ago. By the time they face us , they would be able to rest players in Champions league as they might have already done most of the work. These things do have a big impact.
 
Overused generalization is overused.

It's pretty true though is it not? Doing the same things over and over during a match, regarding his teams defending, and expecting it to improve is naive. What is even more perplexing is after the game he seems astounded at what has happened when pretty much everyone else sees it.
 
It's pretty true though is it not? Doing the same things over and over during a match, regarding his teams defending, and expecting it to improve is naive. What is even more perplexing is after the game he seems astounded at what has happened when pretty much everyone else sees it.

You were outplayed in both games last season though. Why?
 
Losing AGUERO was bad but losing a player during a match is even more bad and that's how you were helped. Also, the fact that Hazard was hardly match fit helped you big time and then add conte's stupid tactics. All these combined and off course you lot playing well helped you guys. The point is Chelsea will be more ready come November 4th when they face us. Also they faced At. Madrid in a high paced match just 3 days ago. By the time they face us , they would be able to rest players in Champions league as they might have already done most of the work. These things do have a big impact.
More important than all of that is playing well. We went to Stamford Bridge and dominated 70% of the ball. That’s not because Morata went off it’s because we had a great game plan, executed it to a tee and deservedly beat them.

Edit: Also, it’s Chelsea fault there cover for Morata was Willian and ours for Aguero is Jesus. Squad game.
 
You were outplayed in both games last season though. Why?

Who finished higher? One off games don't matter at all it's no barometer of how good a manager is, it's consistancy over 38 games. He's brilliant at setting up teams going forward but defensively he's not cutting it, surely that cannot be denied? With the money he hasn't spent he should be doing much, much better considering his CV
 
It's pretty true though is it not? Doing the same things over and over during a match, regarding his teams defending, and expecting it to improve is naive. What is even more perplexing is after the game he seems astounded at what has happened when pretty much everyone else sees it.

We don't know what is going on behind the scenes. I'm going to stick with the assumption that every manager works on things in training (regardless of effectiveness on the pitch) until proven otherwise.

What do you think Liverpool can do to improve their defense without compromising their attack?
 
More important than all of that is playing well. We went to Stamford Bridge and dominated 70% of the ball. That’s not because Morata went off it’s because we had a great game plan, executed it to a tee and deservedly beat them.

Edit: Also, it’s Chelsea fault there cover for Morata was Willian and ours for Aguero is Jesus. Squad game.

You had a great game plan which was helped by the fact that Conte allowed you to implement that game plan. It was clear Hazard was hardly match fit, so technically you were lucky to be playing them when their best player was hardly match fit. But again, you guys played well and won.
 
We don't know what is going on behind the scenes. I'm going to stick with the assumption that every manager works on things in training (regardless of effectiveness on the pitch) until proven otherwise.

What do you think Liverpool can do to improve their defense without compromising their attack?

It seems a mental problem then just tactical, players switching off, that's a coaching matter. Also is Kloop a fan of zonal marking?
 
You had a great game plan which was helped by the fact that Conte allowed you to implement that game plan. It was clear Hazard was hardly match fit, so technically you were lucky to be playing them when their best player was hardly match fit. But again, you guys played well and won.

He was great against Atleti though. His problem was that they couldn't find him in good positions because City pressed them all over the pitch and cut the supply to Chelsea forwards. Hazard received the ball only in positions where he was doubled and had no space to do damage.
 
He was great against Atleti though. His problem was that they couldn't find him in good positions because City pressed them all over the pitch and cut the supply to Chelsea forwards. Hazard received the ball only in positions where he was doubled and had no space to do damage.

And that was mainly because of the stupid tactics of Conte. He should have brought on Michy for Morata. My point is chelsea made it easier for City and City were really good that day.
 
And that was mainly because of the stupid tactics of Conte. He should have brought on Michy for Morata. My point is chelsea made it easier for City and City were really good that day.

With hindsight, Conte set up them too defensively. Maybe he wanted to beat them on the counter. It didn't work out. He should have taken more risks.
 
It seems a mental problem then just tactical, players switching off, that's a coaching matter. Also is Kloop a fan of zonal marking?

Zonal marking is harder to implement than man marking, and the former gets lambasted when goals are conceded. I think it boils down to the fact that their defenders are shit, and they need at least 2 to be brought in that can support attacks and not lose concentration on the counter. Until January this is what they are stuck with. Klopp deserves stick for not bringing in the right personnel.

With hindsight, Conte set up them too defensively. Maybe he wanted to beat them on the counter. It didn't work out. He should have taken more risks.

City would have put more past Chelsea if Conte opened up more. It does show that the counter is not the supreme strategy it is made out to be.
 
City would have put more past Chelsea if Conte opened up more. It does show that the counter is not the supreme strategy it is made out to be.

This is a problem indeed. To beat them one has to take risks. But then he may lose badly if they manage to score first.
 
Things went in our favour because Ederson made a save from Salah and Ederson got to the ball first? That’s just football. Basically you’re lucky every game because De Gea is fantastic and makes top performances all the time?..

I also think the lad saying Morata going off injured was lucky for us too but then completely dismissing Aguero and Mendy getting injured as “injuries happens all the time” is talking rubbish. What abit that ludicrous sending off against Everton? You can’t just be selective to push the agenda. We are just playing well and beating good sides, nothing more to say for now.

Bournemouth was lucky, though.


Just a few things. Firstly Mendy and Aguero were completely different cases to Morata. Morata is Chelsea's only proper striker, Aguero is not. Nor is Mendy City's only left back as you have players more than capable of playing there. Chelsea's back up to Morata is that guy who plays 5 minutes a season and simply isn't anywhere near good enough. Secondly, losing a player days before a game is still bad, yes, but it gives you time to adapt your game plan and instruct their replacements on their roles and tasks. When a player is injured during a game, you are restricted in that sense. You can't train players during a game.

I've already spoken about that Everton game. Everton are fecking shite, they will get slapped up by most decent aides and currently are a free 3 point. Those won't be the games to seperate us come the end of the season imo so the point is moot. As a counter to that Everton decision, the decision to give City nearly 10 minutes extra time against a shite Bournemouth side is equally ridiculous.

You seem to be completely missing my point - I've never said City weren't good, in fact I've said the contrary. You have though been gifted with opportunities in usually the tight games which have made things easier. No matter which way you spin it - Liverpool without their two best players and down to ten men for about 90% of the game is considerably weaker. Also Chelsea without their only proper striker and their best player still getting back to full fitness is also weaker.

We will most likely be going into the Liverpool game with Mane playing, with Coutinho back and playing and without our best player. Not to add our only proper left back has been injured since arriving here. How have City have not had the rub of the green?
 
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Zonal marking is harder to implement than man marking, and the former gets lambasted when goals are conceded. I think it boils down to the fact that their defenders are shit, and they need at least 2 to be brought in that can support attacks and not lose concentration on the counter. Until January this is what they are stuck with. Klopp deserves stick for not bringing in the right personnel.



City would have put more past Chelsea if Conte opened up more. It does show that the counter is not the supreme strategy it is made out to be.

I get the man vs Zonal marking argument but perhaps their defenders may be more used to a more conventional way of defending.
 
Just a few things. Firstly Mendy and Aguero were completely different cases to Morata. Morata is Chelsea's only proper striker, Aguero is not. Nor is Mendy City's only left back as you have players more than capable of playing there. Chelsea's back up to Morata is that guy who plays 5 minutes a season and simply isn't anywhere near good enough. Secondly, losing a player days before a game is still bad, yes, but it gives you time to adapt your game plan and instruct their replacements on their roles and tasks. When a player is injured during a game, you are restricted in that sense. You can't train players during a game.

I've already spoken about that Everton game. Everton are fecking shite, they will get slapped up by most decent aides and currently are a free 3 point. Those won't be the games to seperate us come the end of the season imo so the point is moot. As a counter to that Everton decision, the decision to give City nearly 10 minutes extra time against a shite Bournemouth side is equally ridiculous.

You seem to be completely missing my point - I've never said City weren't good, in fact I've said the contrary. You have though been gifted with opportunities in usually the tight games which have made things easier. No matter which way you spin it - Liverpool without their two best players and down to ten men for about 90% of the game is considerably weaker. Also Chelsea without their only proper striker and their best player still getting back to full fitness is also weaker.

We will most likely be going into the Liverpool game with Mane playing, with Coutinho back and playing and without our best player. Not to add our only proper left back has been injured since arriving here. How have City have not had the rub of the green?
You’re talking shite mate. When Mendy got injured everybody recognised he was our only genuine LB. Playing with Delph there was a weakness (not one single person would have picked him as the back up option), the fact he’s stepped up is just a credit to him. Hazard was also the best player in the pitch a few days earlier, we just nullified the threat of him picking the ball up in good positions.

The Everton point is even more valid when you say they’re a “free 3 points”, because a poor decision meant we couldn’t get that, meaning it has a big impact on the title race because we are 2 points down on what everyone else will score in that fixture. You can’t pick and choose to push your “City have been lucky” agenda.

Weve beat good sides because we are playing well, nothing lucky about either of them. We ripped Liverpool to shreds after Mane went studs first in to the GKs face, a genuine red card challenge, and played Chelsea off the park in their own ground. If United beat Liverpool in a weeks time then we’ll equally have to say hats off and it’s a cracking result, regardless of how it’s done.
 
City played a fantastic team but tbf many things went against Chelsea in this match that they couldn't handle :

1 - Losing David Luiz due to the red card against Arsenal. He's their best defender and the most reliable one.
2 - Playing a difficult match against Ateltico in Spain 2 days before playing City. The match was even concluded in the last minute. With their thin squad it's hard to endure playing in Spain against a strong team then play against City directly without a rest.
3 - Finally losing Morata was definitely a terrible moment that also shows the team was very tired from the CL match and muscular injuries started to hit them. The match was equivalent before it and you can't say who will win but after this it was clear Chelsea were trying to defend a point and City goal was inevitable.

No doubt winning at the Bridge is a fantastic result for City but Chelsea wasn't at their best in this game and everything was going against them.
 
You’re talking shite mate. When Mendy got injured everybody recognised he was our only genuine LB. Playing with Delph there was a weakness (not one single person would have picked him as the back up option), the fact he’s stepped up is just a credit to him. Hazard was also the best player in the pitch a few days earlier, we just nullified the threat of him picking the ball up in good positions.

The Everton point is even more valid when you say they’re a “free 3 points”, because a poor decision meant we couldn’t get that, meaning it has a big impact on the title race because we are 2 points down on what everyone else will score in that fixture. You can’t pick and choose to push your “City have been lucky” agenda.

Weve beat good sides because we are playing well, nothing lucky about either of them. We ripped Liverpool to shreds after Mane went studs first in to the GKs face, a genuine red card challenge, and played Chelsea off the park in their own ground. If United beat Liverpool in a weeks time then we’ll equally have to say hats off and it’s a cracking result, regardless of how it’s done.

So Danilo who himself came out and said he was brought in to play in multiple positions (one of which is also LB) is lying? A 50m very good fullback replacing a 50m very good fullback is hardly the same as Morata going down in replacement for fecking Michy. Using Delph was Pep's decision and ultimately it paid off, turned out the right decision but that's a completely different argument entirely.

The Everton point is a joke as if anything, City looked more convincing after Walker got sent off. You guys were trailing before Walker got sent off. Also, to even the playing field, 45 minutes without Walker against a woeful Everton team can be made up for by the extra 10 minutes of injury time which gifted you a win against Bournemouth, which shouldn't have even been a possibility. So speaking hypothetically, in those two scenarios alone (assuming you'd even beat Everton) you had two points stolen and were gifted 3. Still a positive outcome.

Are you special? How many times do I have to reiterate the fact that I'm not saying City weren't good. I'm not taking anything away from the wins, nor am I saying you weren't good in them. For us to beat those teams it is going to be more difficult than when you guys did though, which is my point. I'm not discussing whether or not Mane did was a red card or not. You're right, it was fecking stupid, which makes it even more lucky imo as there's no chance he's doing something as ridiculous as that again. For a (supposed) title rival to get their best player sent off and be reduced to ten men so early in the game, essentially ruining their gegen pressing rubbish isn't something you're going to see very often.

To then play the last season's champions, only for their star striker to go down injured so early in the game, to be replaced by a second choice winger also makes things easier. All this after playing one of the toughest teams in Spain only two days prior. Whether or not Hazard played well is a moot point, as no-one with no pre-season and only a few games in their pocket after a break isn't going to be up to full fitness. Who's to say his performances should carry on, completely ignoring fatigue etc? Players lose fitness when they are out for a long time. One great performance hardly means they're going to have the required fitness to maintain those performances. Especially when they're not at their physical best, as he obviously isn't currently. To play such a demanding game in Europe then such a demanding game domestically, so close together with no pre-season and only a few games in your pocket is a very big ask. Not to add their best defender and arguably most influential player last season wasn't even available due to a ridiculous challenge against Arsenal. Luiz is instrumental to how they play as he can bring the ball out from the back and play the ball forward, complementing their more pragmatic style.

It really isn't that difficult. Playing against Liverpool with 11 men, instead of 10 for the majority of the game, with their two best players being available and our best player not being available will be more difficult than the circumstances you guys were under. Similarly playing against a fully fit Chelsea side, with their best striker back and Hazard then fully fit, with their best defender back will also be.

You need luck to win trophies in football and so far this season things are going your way, It really isn't that hard to understand. This has nothing to do with how good or how bad City have been this season. Regardless of the circumstances, playing against 10 men instead of 11 and playing against weakened teams without their best players is going to be easier. Not feckin rocket science.
 
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So Danilo who himself came out and said he was brought in to play in multiple positions (one of which is also LB) is lying? A 50m very good fullback replacing a 50m very good fullback is hardly the same as Morata going down in replacement for fecking Michy. Using Delph was Pep's decision and ultimately it paid off, turned out the right decision but that's a completely different argument entirely.

The Everton point is a joke as if anything, City looked more convincing after Walker got sent off. You guys were trailing before Walker got sent off. Also, to even the playing field, 45 minutes without Walker against a woeful Everton team can be made up for by the extra 10 minutes of injury time which gifted you a win against Bournemouth, which shouldn't have even been a possibility. So speaking hypothetically, in those two scenarios alone (assuming you'd even beat Everton) you had two points stolen and were gifted 3. Still a positive outcome.

Are you special? How many times do I have to reiterate the fact that I'm not saying City weren't good. I'm not taking anything away from the wins, nor am I saying you weren't good in them. For us to beat those teams it is going to be more difficult than when you guys did though, which is my point. I'm not discussing whether or not Mane did was a red card or not. You're right, it was fecking stupid, which makes it even more lucky imo as there's no chance he's doing something as ridiculous as that again. For a (supposed) title rival to get their best player sent off and be reduced to ten men so early in the game, essentially ruining their gegen pressing rubbish isn't something you're going to see very often.

To then play the last season's champions, only for their star striker to go down injured so early in the game, to be replaced by a second choice winger also makes things easier. All this after playing one of the toughest teams in Spain only two days prior. Whether or not Hazard played well is a moot point, as no-one with no pre-season and only a few games in their pocket after a break isn't going to be up to full fitness. Who's to say his performances should carry on, completely ignoring fatigue etc? Players lose fitness when they are out for a long time. One great performance hardly means they're going to have the required fitness to maintain those performances. Especially when they're not at their physical best, as he obviously isn't currently. To play such a demanding game in Europe then such a demanding game domestically, so close together with no pre-season and only a few games in your pocket is a very big ask. Not to add their best defender and arguably most influential player last season wasn't even available due to a ridiculous challenge against Arsenal. Luiz is instrumental to how they play as he can bring the ball out from the back and play the ball forward, complementing their more pragmatic style.

It really isn't that difficult. Playing against Liverpool with 11 men, instead of 10 for the majority of the game, with their two best players being available and our best player not being available will be more difficult than the circumstances you guys were under. Similarly playing against a fully fit Chelsea side, with their best striker back and Hazard then fully fit, with their best defender back will also be.

You need luck to win trophies in football and so far this season things are going your way, It really isn't that hard to understand. This has nothing to do with how good or how bad City have been this season. Regardless of the circumstances, playing against 10 men instead of 11 and playing against weakened teams without their best players is going to be easier. Not feckin rocket science.

I don't agree with your definition of luck when applied to football matches, if a player commits a red card offence and gets sent off that isn't unlucky, its an inevitable conclusion to a poor decision. Things go for you and things go against you throughout games and throughout the season. In any case some of your conclusions are simply incorrect and incredibly one-sided.

City were one nil up against Liverpool when Mane correctly got sent off. Lets not forget that Ederson had to be replaced by Bravo as a result of Mane's foul, who actually was unlucky here? City then dominated Liverpool and won easily.

When Morata got injured (something that wasn't unique to that game but a run of the mill event that occurs in every game) Conte chose to make a tactical change, hence, the introduction of Willian and not Batshuyi. Ask yourself why Conte felt the need to make that tactical change, the answer is that City were completely dominating the game. Lets not forget that City had also played mid-week, probably the toughest opponents they have faced all season and yet were happy to go to the home of the Champions and set themselves up to win, they executed that perfectly and completely deserved the three points, it could easily have been a larger victory. There will be plenty of occasions where City place opponents that have had more mid-week rest. This is normal.
 
I don't agree with your definition of luck when applied to football matches, if a player commits a red card offence and gets sent off that isn't unlucky, its an inevitable conclusion to a poor decision. Things go for you and things go against you throughout games and throughout the season. In any case some of your conclusions are simply incorrect and incredibly one-sided.

City were one nil up against Liverpool when Mane correctly got sent off. Lets not forget that Ederson had to be replaced by Bravo as a result of Mane's foul, who actually was unlucky here? City then dominated Liverpool and won easily.

When Morata got injured (something that wasn't unique to that game but a run of the mill event that occurs in every game) Conte chose to make a tactical change, hence, the introduction of Willian and not Batshuyi. Ask yourself why Conte felt the need to make that tactical change, the answer is that City were completely dominating the game. Lets not forget that City had also played mid-week, probably the toughest opponents they have faced all season and yet were happy to go to the home of the Champions and set themselves up to win, they executed that perfectly and completely deserved the three points, it could easily have been a larger victory. There will be plenty of occasions where City place opponents that have had more mid-week rest. This is normal.

So playing against one of the best teams in the prem who have 10 men for the majority of the game, the player excused being their best player, also their second best player not even playing isn't making the game easier? Okay then. Especially considering that same player who got the red will most likely never do something so stupid again? So only City benefitting from such a rash and idiotic call isn't in the slightest lucky? One of the toughest games of the season becoming much easier isn't lucky?

Ederson being replaced by another more than capable keeper is hardly the end of the world. It's not even comparable. They went a man down and lost their best player, you guys didn't. Saying it's not lucky is being one-sided. Making some of the hardest games of the season easier absolutely is lucky, no matter what the circumstances. It was stupid by Mane and the correct decision, but the fact that it conspired and made the game essentially much easier was in fact lucky.

Whether or not Morata getting injured is run of the mill when it comes to the game is irrelevant. Players get injured all the time, that's true. Although to be able to play against the Champions of England without their only proper striker is lucky. Almost everything, if not everything in life involves luck in one way or another. Playing some of the biggest games of the season against weakened opposition - lucky. Losing Mendy and Aguero was unlucky, sure, but then for Chelsea to also lose their best defender and their best striker, who are both influential to their game is just as unlucky, if not more so as you guys have a proper replacement for Aguero and more than capable back-ups for Mendy.

You guys managed to play a few big teams in situations where I believe they weren't at their best for one reason or another, yes it's true you guys were great in those games, but that's not the argument here. Due to those aforementioned circumstances you guys were essentially quite lucky when it came to those fixtures. At least much more so than we are. We will be playing Chelsea with their best defender back, their best striker mostly back and Hazard closer to full fitness. We will play Liverpool with their two best players in Mane and Coutinho back in the side. All of these games whilst missing our most influential and best player in Pogba. How you can believe the situation you guys were in wasn't any more lucky is beyond me.

Will these lucky breaks last for you guys? Who knows, we might get some lucky breaks against the big sides (the games that I think will be the difference between us both this year), if we do, I'd happily accept we also got the luck of the draw. Maybe City might start getting unlucky, who knows. Until either of those things happen though, it's not rocket science to understand that teams without their best players are weaker.

It's true all teams get lucky and unlucky throughout the season, but getting them against the strongest sides in the league surely does help.

Also you all need to stop bringing up this point about how great you guys were - I've never said otherwise. I've just given light on how the games were made easier for you guys and how I interpret that as getting the rub of the green.
 
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So Danilo who himself came out and said he was brought in to play in multiple positions (one of which is also LB) is lying? A 50m very good fullback replacing a 50m very good fullback (£26m, and nobody rated him when we signed him on here) is hardly the same as Morata going down in replacement for fecking Michy (but similar to losing Aguero who is also our top goalscorer - squad strength is a big part of the game). Using Delph was Pep's decision and ultimately it paid off, turned out the right decision but that's a completely different argument entirely. (Using Willian was Contes decision just the same but you were moaning about that)

The Everton point is a joke as if anything, City looked more convincing after Walker got sent off. You guys were trailing before Walker got sent off. (We absolutely were, but so were Liverpool to us and yet you can’t get your head around that one) Also, to even the playing field, 45 minutes without Walker against a woeful Everton team can be made up for by the extra 10 minutes (7 minutes, 5 on the board, and a Bournemouth injury for 2 minutes - lucky deflection for the goal though, absolutely) of injury time which gifted you a win against Bournemouth, which shouldn't have even been a possibility. So speaking hypothetically, in those two scenarios alone (assuming you'd even beat Everton) you had two points stolen and were gifted 3. Still a positive outcome. (It would be gained 2 lost 2 anyway, since we still had a draw v Bmouth without the late goal).

Are you special? (given you can’t even do basic maths above...) How many times do I have to reiterate the fact that I'm not saying City weren't good. I'm not taking anything away from the wins (that’s pretty much exactly what you’re doing), nor am I saying you weren't good in them. For us to beat those teams it is going to be more difficult than when you guys did though, which is my point. (Speculation, as it’s not happened yet) I'm not discussing whether or not Mane did was a red card or not. You're right, it was fecking stupid, which makes it even more lucky imo as there's no chance he's doing something as ridiculous as that again. For a (supposed) title rival to get their best player sent off and be reduced to ten men so early in the game, (Let’s not forget, as you point out above with Everton, it’s less of a valid point because we were already winning - right?) essentially ruining their gegen pressing rubbish isn't something you're going to see very often.

To then play the last season's champions, only for their star striker to go down injured so early in the game (Aguero - see above) , to be replaced by a second choice winger also makes things easier. (Conte decision- see above) All this after playing one of the toughest teams in Spain only two days prior. (Three days) Whether or not Hazard played well is a moot point, as no-one with no pre-season and only a few games in their pocket after a break isn't going to be up to full fitness. (He was fit enough to be excellent THREE days early. Hazard never actually saw much of the ball anyway, so his ability with it on the day barely matters) Who's to say his performances should carry on, completely ignoring fatigue etc? Players lose fitness when they are out for a long time. One great performance hardly means they're going to have the required fitness to maintain those performances. Especially when they're not at their physical best, as he obviously isn't currently. (Perhaps, but it’s speculation to assume he didn’t play well because of fitness and instead because City cut him out of the game) To play such a demanding game in Europe then such a demanding game domestically, so close together with no pre-season and only a few games in your pocket is a very big ask. (City also played four days earlier, just to add) Not to add their best defender and arguably most influential player last season wasn't even available due to a ridiculous challenge against Arsenal. Luiz is instrumental to how they play as he can bring the ball out from the back and play the ball forward, complementing their more pragmatic style. (Easy to forget City we’re missing Kompany and had to play with Stones and Otamendi again, who nobody rates - arguably a bigger step down for us than them).

It really isn't that difficult. Playing against Liverpool with 11 men, instead of 10 for the majority of the game, with their two best players being available and our best player not being available will be more difficult than the circumstances you guys were under. Similarly playing against a fully fit Chelsea side, with their best striker back and Hazard then fully fit, with their best defender back will also be. (Speculation, as you’ve not had to play either game yet so don’t know the circumstances)

You need luck to win trophies in football and so far this season things are going your way, It really isn't that hard to understand. This has nothing to do with how good or how bad City have been this season. Regardless of the circumstances, playing against 10 men instead of 11 and playing against weakened teams without their best players is going to be easier. Not feckin rocket science.
You view things so red tinted it’s hilarious - this is my last one in the topic because it’s boring now, but I just wanted to point some things out. I’ve done it in a school style marking format because this is what you’re probably most used to. It gets quite petty, I’d make a terrible teacher.
 
So playing against one of the best teams in the prem who have 10 men for the majority of the game, the player excused being their best player, also their second best player not even playing isn't making the game easier? Okay then. Especially considering that same player who got the red will most likely never do something so stupid again? So only City benefitting from such a rash and idiotic call isn't in the slightest lucky? One of the toughest games of the season becoming much easier isn't lucky?

Ederson being replaced by another more than capable keeper is hardly the end of the world. It's not even comparable. They went a man down and lost their best player, you guys didn't. Saying it's not lucky is being one-sided. Making some of the hardest games of the season easier absolutely is lucky, no matter what the circumstances. It was stupid by Mane and the correct decision, but the fact that it conspired and made the game essentially much easier was in fact lucky.

Whether or not Morata getting injured is run of the mill when it comes to the game is irrelevant. Players get injured all the time, that's true. Although to be able to play against the Champions of England without their only proper striker is lucky. Almost everything, if not everything in life involves luck in one way or another. Playing some of the biggest games of the season against weakened opposition - lucky. Losing Mendy and Aguero was unlucky, sure, but then for Chelsea to also lose their best defender and their best striker, who are both influential to their game is just as unlucky, if not more so as you guys have a proper replacement for Aguero and more than capable back-ups for Mendy.

You guys managed to play a few big teams in situations where I believe they weren't at their best for one reason or another, yes it's true you guys were great in those games, but that's not the argument here. Due to those aforementioned circumstances you guys were essentially quite lucky when it came to those fixtures. At least much more so than we are. We will be playing Chelsea with their best defender back, their best striker mostly back and Hazard closer to full fitness. We will play Liverpool with their two best players in Mane and Coutinho back in the side. All of these games whilst missing our most influential and best player in Pogba. How you can believe the situation you guys were in wasn't any more lucky is beyond me.

Will these lucky breaks last for you guys? Who knows, we might get some lucky breaks against the big sides (the games that I think will be the difference between us both this year), if we do, I'd happily accept we also got the luck of the draw. Maybe City might start getting unlucky, who knows. Until either of those things happen though, it's not rocket science to understand that teams without their best players are weaker.

It's true all teams get lucky and unlucky throughout the season, but getting them against the strongest sides in the league surely does help.

Also you all need to stop bringing up this point about how great you guys were - I've never said otherwise. I've just given light on how the games were made easier for you guys and how I interpret that as getting the rub of the green.

I don't think you understand what being lucky/unlucky is in the context of football. There is a world of difference between circumstances being made 'easier'/'harder' (hypothetically) and how teams react to every event being lucky/unlucky.

To take one example, Aguero gets injured and has to be replaced by Jesus. Jesus was intentionally bought as a back-up/complementary striker to Aguero. Are City lucky that Jesus was able to replace Aguero in that one match? Clearly, the answer is no as they had anticipated and planned for that event. Yet, the converse is that Chelsea are seemingly not happy with their back-up to Morata having released Costa and spent money on Batshuyi. So, ignoring the fact that Willian was a tactical substitution, you honestly believe that Chelsea were unlucky in those circumstances? Morata departing might have made the game easier for City, and even that is debatable based on Willian's introduction, but there was no luck involved.
 
It's pretty true though is it not? Doing the same things over and over during a match, regarding his teams defending, and expecting it to improve is naive. What is even more perplexing is after the game he seems astounded at what has happened when pretty much everyone else sees it.
Exactly. It sounds like it is always the opponents's fault for Liverpool not getting a result.
 
Yeah, my bad. You have a big record against the top sides. Still think Josè knows how to beat you well though.
It's weird, Mourinho has an excellent record at Anfield but his record against Klopp isn't as impressive. Something's got to give.
 
City will win it. Their squad is just too strong. They have like two world class players/talents in literally every position now. (Except CB)

I think that they do have overall, the strongest squad. Their attackers are terrific.
I think their problem is that they don't have a decent manager to be able to get the best out of the best squad in the league.
I think that Jose and Conte are both better. Poch/Spurs would also be better, but they don't have any home games (which will hold them back, this season).
For MCFC to win, I think they'd need to have the best squad by far, which I don't think they do this season. If they could get Alexis Sanchez or Messi, this would give them the best squad by far and probably give them the league.
If Pelligrini was still in charge, I think they'd win the league, but luckily, he isn't there anymore.
 
I think that they do have overall, the strongest squad. Their attackers are terrific.
I think their problem is that they don't have a decent manager to be able to get the best out of the best squad in the league.
I think that Jose and Conte are both better. Poch/Spurs would also be better, but they don't have any home games (which will hold them back, this season).
For MCFC to win, I think they'd need to have the best squad by far, which I don't think they do this season. If they could get Alexis Sanchez or Messi, this would give them the best squad by far and probably give them the league.
If Pelligrini was still in charge, I think they'd win the league, but luckily, he isn't there anymore.

3/10 for wumming
 
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