The Three Leagues Draft - 2nd SF

Who will win with player peaks in the specified leagues (not career peaks)?


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Moby

Dick
Joined
May 20, 2011
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Barcelona, Catalunya
Please remember that players should only be judged by their performances in their assigned leagues for this draft (not career peak)


TEAM SKIZZO-PAT

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TEAM ENIGMA_87-SNOW
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Enigma%27s%2FSnow-team-formation-tactics.png
 
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Skizzo-Pat's Tactics

We line up in a diamond formation, with arguably the finest forward in the draft in Franceso Totti joining our attack and Luis Enrique bolstering the midfield. Hierro will assume a slightly deeper role in midfield compared to our previous matches, attacking more sparingly as the need to mitigate against the threat of Kaka takes precedence.

We sport arguably the best keeper in the draft alongside Kahn in Walter Zenga, a three-time IFFHS World Goalkeeper of the Year. Ahead of him the rugged centre-back pairing of Ruggeri and Chiellini are flanked by a legend of the game in Javier Zanettii and one of the all-time great left backs, Bixente Lizarazu.

Our midfield is an imposing, well rounded unit, which combines defensive solidity with a considerable creative and goal scoring threat. Fernando Hierro, a staple inclusion in all-time Spain and Real Madrid XIs, marshals the team from a defensive midfield position, utilising his defensive nous to shield the defence and his superb passing range to instigate attacks. Less heralded is his superb goalscoring record from midfield: he scored an astonishing 21 goals in 37 league games from midfield under Raddy Antic in 1991-92, and notched double figures in each of the following two seasons. His responsibility for monitoring the threat of Kaka will limit his surges forward here, but his range of passing will be a valuable asset for our transitions and he remains a goal threat from distance and from set pieces. Baraja himself was a formidable box to box presence in some excellent Valencia teams, scoring a respectable 43 goals in 285 La Liga matches himself. Our new acquisition, Barcelona legend Luis Enrique, slots in on the left of our midfield. Out of possession, his tireless running and combative style will further augment our defensively strong midfield unit, while in possession his brilliant off the ball movement will provide another outlet for Totti's sublime passing. Scorer of 35 goals in 69 league games in his first two seasons at Barca, he brings a lethal cutting edge going forward that his opposite number Modric will struggle to suppress.

Andreas Moller, winner of a World Cup, a Euro Championship, a Champions League, a UEFA Cup and 2 Bundesligas, is restored to his favoured AM position. A serial winner who maintained a 1 in 3 scoring record for the best part of a decade across Serie A, Bundesliga and internationals, he was also a superb passer who is listed as holding the all-time assists record in the Bundesliga.

Up front we field a pair of World Cup winners in Jurgen Klinsmann and Francesco Totti. They’ll be a nightmare to defend against here, with Klinsmann’s powerful , tireless running and physical presence in the penalty area creating spaces for the genius of Totti to roam and find space. With Klinsmann leading the line and prolific goalscoring midfielders like Moller and Luis Enrique breaking beyond him, his wonderful vision and creativity will be put to good use here.

When we lose possession, the team will drop back into a relatively deep and compact 4-3-1-2, with Klinsmann taking principal responsibility for hounding Enigma's defence/midfield while the team regains their shape.

Our Advantages:

Diverse Goal Threats: We have two fairly prolific strikers, who we feel are complementary in their pairing. Supplying them is the Bundesliga's all time assist leader, Andreas Moller, who also has a 1 in 3 scoring record. Hierro was prolific in his midfield prime, Luis Enrique had goals to his name, and Baraja a consistent goal threat also.

Attack vs Defence: Both teams have a similar set up in personnel, with a roaming striker, a playmaker, and a clinical forward. While there's no denying the quality of Sheva and Kaka, and Pat will never say a bad word against Villa, we feel our advantage lies in the players each team will face in attack. Kaka will be occupied in space by Hierro, while Villa and Sheva are marshaled by Ruggeri and Chiellini, with Zanetti and Lizarazu on hand to help out. On the flip side, Moller comes up against (most likely) Luis Gustavo, while Totti and Klinsmann come up against Lucio and Helmer. Not bad defenders, but not the kind of top quality you would need to shut out the quality we have in attack. There's also the comparison of Zenga and Van Der Sar, which we'll discuss during the match.

Midfield: We've lined up in a very similar style to how we anticipate Enigma/snow will line up. Baraja and Davids battling it out, with Luis Enrique and Modric on the opposite side going at it. While there's no distinct advantage between the pairs, we feel we have an edge in two distinct areas. The battle between each team's AM vs DM. Hierro is a much more formidable foe for Kaka, than Luis Gustavo will be for Moller. There's also the lack of goals coming from midfield, with Modric and Davids scoring a combined 15 goals in 269 games. Baraja has 41 for Valencia on his own, and that's not looking at Luis Enrique's goal threat.
 
Enigma_87-Snow's Tactics

Updated write up:

Player profiles:

GK and defence: Van der Sar, Marcelo, Lucio, Helmer
and separate on Cafu ->
Midfield - Luka Modric
Midfield - Kaka
Davids
Attack - David Villa
Andriy Shevchenko

System is a bit of a lopsided diamond 4-4-2 formation interchanging to 5-3-2(Gustavo dropping in) or 4-3-3 depending off or on the ball. Our team is set up with Marcelo on the left flank who is very similar to his predecessor R.Carlos and arguably in peak form close to him in terms of quality(in attacking sense for sure). He's playing his natural Real Madrid position here, providing width and being a genuine attacking asset when we're in possession but also keeping tabs on the opposition right side. On the other side of the pitch we have the best right back in the draft and probably of all time - Cafu. He will run up and down the flank as he always does and pretty much would own that flank with his impressive combination of skill, stamina, teamwork, strength and overall class. In the heart of the defence we have Lucio who is one of the best defenders in the 21 century succeeding pretty much everywhere he played - tall, strong and excellent tackler but also a leader he'll neutralize aerial dangers and also those on the ground. Thomas Helmer is his partner in defence - tough strong world class defender who spent most of his club career with Borussia Dortmund and Bayern Munich, and won the EURO in 1996, forming a perfect left-right CB pairing (LvG would be proud). Both will be responsible of stopping Skizzo/Pat's attackers and also neutralizing them in the air, considering one of Klinsmann main assets and he'll be the focal point of S/P attack.

In midfield we have Juve's Edgar Davids. He was also known for his pace, strength, power, stamina, tactical intelligence, versatility and tenacity, as well as his ability to read the game, which, along with his technical ability made Lippi call him his "one-man engine room". Davids will be in the LCM role and harass the opponents constantly and combine with Modric. Luiz Gustavo and Modric compliment him in midfield. 2 midfield dynamos with high work rate. Luiz Gustavo will do the running, and covering in that holding role behind Davids and Modric. Modric will be on the RCM side and will provide us with the playmaking abilities, vision, work rate and basically his bread and butter RM role here.

Our midfield will press the opponent when off the ball to get it back, as all our midfielders can participate in the defensive line. We won't play too deep or too high defensive line, rather medium one, but having a team full of versatile players with high work rate I expect our team to push S/P's side most of the time.

Up the park we have Kaka who is the best player on the pitch and truly unstoppable in his prime who will be our key player in a free AM role to do what he does best - supply Shevchenko and Villa but also finish himself. Our strike partnership is Villa - one of the best goalscorers in Spain of all time (leading national team goal scorer as well) and Shevchenko - another ballon D'Or winner who was one of the top striker in his era - hit 26 or more goals in 5 of his 7 seasons while in Milan. In those drafts we always think how and whether our forward lines will fit but this time round we have a proven partnership in Kaka and Sheva. While we know that one will work, Shevchenko has Villa as a partner and arguably that's the best striker partner he'd have during his prime(maybe only Inzaghi comes close). The best thing about Sheva and Villa are that they are so versatile that they can adjust to each other playing styles as both have proven in the past working in with different set ups.

Our main strengths and why we will win and key battles:

Our main strength and focal point in our team is the Milan core from the early to mid 00's. We have Cafu, Kaka and Shevchenko in our team. So most likely you'll be looking at this most of the time:
(apologies for the crap and in some even gayish music- all videos experienced better minus the sound)

All three of them are proven unit going forward and Cafu can feed Sheva in the box with his crosses as Kaka and Sheva will link brilliantly as in the above videos.

Edgar Davids - one of the best midfielders in the draft - he'll have a tough job ahead but who else can execute it perfectly but a player that has the tactical discipline, reading of the game, combined with great teamwork, dedication and tackling ability.

Midfield battle - Gustavo, Kaka, Modric and Davids in midfield will be a bit too much for S/P side. We have the steel, grit, technical ability and also great creative force behind them. I'd say the midfield is well balanced and really strong in both phases.

Flanks - obviously width won't be an issue with Marcelo, Cafu on either flank and Villa running into channels with also Davids/Modric putting a shift when needed depending where the ball and oppositions players are.

Defending and attacking in numbers - all but Villa and Shevchenko will contribute in defence as well. Villa and Sheva will most likely be our first line pressing Skizzo/Pat's back line when they try to get the ball out of their half. Apart from them all of our midfielders and defenders can participate in defending in our half negating any possibility of being outnumbered at the back.

Creativity and attack - I think undoubtedly we have better attack and more creativity than S/P's team. Kaka/Villa/Shevchenko with Marcelo/Cafu on the flanks and Modric creating from deep with their passing in movement is more than enough to create and score couple in this game. Apart from that we have the proven partnership between Kaka/Sheva and Cafu with its synergy and combining between them.

Work rate and generally hard working unit - Having Cafu and Davids in the team will generally outlay what an excellent side we have in terms of stamina levels, defending and attacking in unit. We have players with high energy level with the ability to last throughout the game but also a lot of tactical discipline especially in midfield where all - Kaka/Modric/Gustavo/Davids are brilliant in that sense and are trusted to make the right decisions in the key moments of the game.

Why we will win? - solid midfield and core. Excellent going forward in an well oiled Kaka/Sheva duo complimented with one of the best scorers in the history of La Liga - Villa. Lot of creativity coming from Kaka, Modric, Villa, Sheva. Great engine in Cafu, Davids, Gustavo and the ability to use both - flanks and attack centrally. Leader at the back in Lucio who undoubtedly is one of the best CB in the draft and an excellent partner in both tactical, positional and defensive sense in Helmer, who is also excellent in the air - qualities that will be needed to cope with Klinsmann's edge.
 
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@Rado_N can you make a poll for us as always?

Who will win with player peaks in the specified leagues (not career peaks)?
Team Skizzo-Pat
Team Enigma_87-Snow

Cheers!

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I like the look of both sides. Two issues that immediately come to mind though-

Davids as a pure DM
Totti as a second striker with a 10 behind him
 
From first look it's quite the same set up from both sides, so at the end it will be down to personel and how well will each sides gel.

Off the bat we have 2 tactical choices one is Luis Enrique in the LCM and ours is Alaba in the same area. I know Luis Enrique is quite versatile and so is Alaba so it's an interesting match up for both sides. I think we have an advantage in that area given that Alaba is better defensively than Enrique and will provide more steel to our midfield and with his quick response we'll suffocate the CM option that Skizzo/Pat side have, especially when we throw Davids and Modric in the mix, which will cut off a bit the service to Totti and Klinsmann.

I said that I was a bit surprised with the Totti pick and Enrique in the reinforcement round particularly for the reason that they will find it very hard to accommodate both in the same line up.

That's the reason why we went with Kaka as well, because Kaka IMO in that role behind Villa and Sheva is in what he excelled and reached his peak. I see Totti and Moller stepping on their toes more often given that this is the particular zone in which they operate.

On the other hand given the set up and the full backs available we have Marcelo and Cafu which IMO is the better combo than Lizarazu/Zanetti going forward. We have Alaba as well who can cover for Marcelo in the same way Di Maria did at Real which IMO compliments our side pretty well.

I feel that going forward wide with Marcelo and Cafu we have a clear edge as both of them are better in that sense than their counterparts.

In the midfield area having Davids is a real bolster to our side, along with Modric and Alaba, Kaka has the perfect stage to shine and while Hierro is excellent in that role IMO he'll have much to do in CM as well, as I don't think Enrique and Baraja can contain it on their own, which will leave space for Kaka to do his magic.
 
Just a few opening thoughts in terms of the OP comments.

Midfield battle - Alaba, Kaka, Modric and Davids in midfield will be a bit too much for S/P side. We have the steel, grit, technical ability and also great creative force behind them. I'd say the midfield is well balanced and really strong in both phases.

I don't see how that would be too much for our side, considering that Luis Enrique and Baraja are more renowned for their league careers, which isn't a slight on Alaba and Modric, but neither have reached the peaks that these two have. They might one day, but considering Alaba is still starting his career, and Modric has years left too, I don't think its quite how you portray. Baraja and Luis Enrique go down as top tier players for their clubs (I'll reserve the "legend" tag for players like Totti and Zanetti), and they offer just as much, if not more, of whatever you feel you get from your midfield.

That's not even bringing in Davids, who we feel is better as a b2b midfielder, as opposed to someone holding in front of the defense.

- obviously width won't be an issue with Marcelo, Cafu on either flank and Villa running into channels with also Alaba/Modric putting a shift when needed depending where the ball and oppositions players are.

not an issue here either, with Lizarazu and Zanetti, Klinsmann running in to channels, and Baraja/Luis Enrique putting a shift in when needed depending where the ball and opposition players are.


Creativity and attack
- I think undoubtedly we have better attack and more creativity than S/P's team. Kaka/Villa/Shevchenko with Marcelo/Cafu on the flanks and Modric and Schneider creating from deep with their passing in movement is more than enough to create and score couple in this game. Apart from that we have the proven partnership between Kaka/Sheva and Cafu with its synergy and combining between them.

I'm sure you do :) although I don't see how its as clear cut as you try and portray when we have Moller (leading BuLi assists) with Totti and Klinsmann, and Lizarazu/Zanetti on the flanks, and Luis Enrique bursting forward. I'm assuming you won't be relying on schneider to create from deep? :p

Work rate and generally hard working unit
- Having Cafu and Davids in the team will generally outlay what an excellent side we have in terms of stamina levels, defending and attacking in unit. We have players with high energy level with the ability to last throughout the game but also a lot of tactical discipline especially in midfield where all - Kaka/Modric/Alaba/Davids are brilliant in that sense and are trusted to make the right decisions in the key moments of the game.

your work rate isn't a deciding factor here, considering that they're matched, or outmatched, by their opposite numbers. I don't expect Modric and Alaba to outwork Baraja and Luis Enrique. I still think you waste some of Davids game by putting him in a holding DM role, but thats for others to decide.
 
interesting game, clash of diamonds!
There is a lot to like in both teams(even though i hate diamonds) so will just write what i dont like and me being a grouch there isnt a shortage of things there!

Team patzzo:
  • same as in every game - Chiellini :D
  • not really sure if i like the front three, would prefer Totti in the number 10 spot and that the team is more about him
  • also dont like the position of Luis Enrique, not that there is something wront with it(he can play it easily) but he would be much better somewhere else given the talents in your team and opposition
Team snow-enigma:
  • dont rate Lucio and placing him next to Marcelo isnt exactly the smartest thing
  • dont buying Modric in the diamond formation to be honest
  • playing Davids as a DM is a waste of his talents
 
I like the look of both sides. Two issues that immediately come to mind-

Davids as a pure DM
Totti as a second striker with a 10 behind him

Totti has played just about every attacking role, and has excelled in most. Don't think we did particularly well wide left, nor did he enjoy it, but I digress.

His game revolves around movement and linking up. His best game came in a two man unit with Cassano and him playing up top. Having Moller in there gives us extra flexibility in terms of Totti dropping deeper and Moller running in behind. It forces Davids to either commit to the run, and let Totti drop deep unmarked, or switch and let Moller get a free run towards Lucio and in behind.

We have clips and the sort that show how the movement would work, highlight both Moller's ability to run off the ball from deep, and Totti's link up and interchange in attacking positions.

He's often been typecast as only being able to play in an AM/false 9 sort of role, but he's a much more complete player than that.
 
I like the look of both sides. Two issues that immediately come to mind though-

Davids as a pure DM
Totti as a second striker with a 10 behind him

On Davids note. He is tactically great player. He can play in many roles and a holding one isn't at all strange given his talents. I don't think it's an issue for someone who has played there a lot. We need to get the best team and unit in the game and IMO in that set up he will do a pretty good job there. We did go for Luis Gustavo and Alaba to have options, but IMO Davids has the intelligence and given his credentials and what zone he has covered and operated I don't think that's an issue in this game at all given how both teams set up and basically operating in the same area.
 
Yeah, that's a waste of one of the best box to box midfielders of all time.

Agreed.

As a left sided central midfielder in a narrow system or diamond I genuinely can't think of anyone better than Davids.
 
On Davids note. He is tactically great player. He can play in many roles and a holding one isn't at all strange given his talents. I don't think it's an issue for someone who has played there a lot. We need to get the best team and unit in the game and IMO in that set up he will do a pretty good job there. We did go for Luis Gustavo and Alaba to have options, but IMO Davids has the intelligence and given his credentials and what zone he has covered and operated I don't think that's an issue in this game at all given how both teams set up and basically operating in the same area.
Sorry, for the last time, have you 'instructed' him to be a holding midfielder here? :D
 
Going all the way back from now until the 10/11 season, Transfermarkt shows Alaba playing CM a total of 23 times. Somehow that's supposed to show the kind of ability that dominates the midfield against Luis Enrique (as has been described as Roy Keane with goals) and Ruben Baraja?
 
Even in unrestricted pool it's hard to find a midfielder better suited for an LCM role in a diamond than Davids. That's why I called it the best reinforcement of the round. And to open this thread and to see him wasted as a pivot :(
 
Didn't see the Alaba thing coming.. I like him in this role in a diamond.. but that position was tailor made for Davids in your team.
 
interesting game, clash of diamonds!
There is a lot to like in both teams(even though i hate diamonds) so will just write what i dont like and me being a grouch there isnt a shortage of things there!

Team snow-enigma:
  • dont rate Lucio and placing him next to Marcelo isnt exactly the smartest thing
  • dont buying Modric in the diamond formation to be honest
  • playing Davids as a DM is a waste of his talents

Thanks mate for the input let's address each unit.

Alaba is in a role that also covers for Marcelo when he goes forward, that's why we chose him starting in that position, similarly to what Gustavo role was in the last game.

I don't think Modric occupying that area is really a problem or specifically the formation. At Real playing in a 4-3-3 you can see him in a similar role, 4-4-2 diamond or 4-3-3 are really interchangeable and really there is fluidity in both formations. If you have Davids pushing up it's

Alaba--Davids--Modric

if you have Alaba dropping it can be:

----Modric----
Alaba---Davids

I don't think it's that strict in terms of operating in the two phases and given how Real play I think it's a good fit to the players they have there as well.

Davids will participate in the build up as well so whether it's a 4-4-2 or 4-3-3 during the game it's pretty natural given the players movement and also the positional game when off and on the ball.
 
Even in unrestricted pool it's hard to find a midfielder better suited for an LCM role in a diamond than Davids. That's why I called it the best reinforcement of the round. And to open this thread and to see him wasted as a pivot :(

I'd hazard a guess that he was placed there to try and shut out Totti, which he isn't even up against all the time here anyway.
 
Totti, while not much really needs to be said about the legend, is one of the standout players of the draft. In his role here, he have him as a 9.5, a role he often played for Roma with various partners or on his own. Here, he'll have the freedom to play his game with a proper no.9 alongside him, and a mobile playmaker behind him.

Totti will be free to link play, roam around to find space, as well as be a genuine scoring threat. His best scoring seasons came as a 9 or 9.5, and it would be a waste for us not to take advantage of his fantastic vision also. With runners from deep in Enrique and Baraja, wide outlets in Lizarazu and Zanetti, and mobile players around him in Klinsmann and Moller, he'd thrive here and be able to focus on what he does best...creating and scoring chances.

Here's an example of a quick ball played in to his feet, he drifts into the open space, and flicks a quick ball in behind for the runner.

And we really don't feel the opposition has someone who would be able to nullify the all round ability of Totti. He's tough to get off the ball, and incredibly dangerous on it. At his peak, he offered as much of a threat as Kaka, and he will have more space in which to run his game.

and sometimes, Totti just gonna Totti...


And here's a clip of Moller from his Juve days, using the movement of Baggio dropping deep to start the play, to get in behind and score.



Moller working well with Baggio is probably our best real-life comparison to Moller/Totti being compatible, Movement of the second striker to drop deep, whilst Moller moves forward in support of the main striker and scores that beauty.
 
Even in unrestricted pool it's hard to find a midfielder better suited for an LCM role in a diamond than Davids. That's why I called it the best reinforcement of the round. And to open this thread and to see him wasted as a pivot :(
I was really unsure of how Skizzo/Pat will line up, hence using him in that DM role. The main point was having him on for Totti as I thought he'll be starting as a #10.

And also having Alaba as LCM also is a good fit. But looking at the side Skizzo/Pat put in Gustavo as a pivot will be a better fit.

I'd hazard a guess that he was placed there to try and shut out Totti, which he isn't even up against all the time here anyway.

yes, pretty much. Having Moller in the line up was kind of surprise. I thought you'll have Basler for width.
 


All right, after seeing the S/P team sheet, and having in mind what we're up against. Time for an early change. Gustavo in and Davids in his best LCM position.

@Aldo can you please change it in the OP. I'll update send you the changed write up as a PM as well shortly.
 
@Enigma_87

Yap, Alaba is a great move and i can see him and Marcelo have a nice little partnership on the left.

Modric is much more exposed here then in the Real system and needs to put much more work to pull it of. Think you would be better with Gustavo as holding midfielder and Davids unleashed in his box2box role but thats just me.

Davids can participate in the build up and he can play as DM that isnt really a problem but its a bit of a waste(same goes for Lucho on the other side).
 
Moller working well with Baggio is probably our best real-life comparison to Moller/Totti being compatible, Movement of the second striker to drop deep, whilst Moller moves forward in support of the main striker and scores that beauty.

When Totti played with Cassano did he have a 10 behind him or was it a front two? Totti was always much more of a playmaker than Baggio who was very much a second striker, essentially most similar to Kaka.

To be fair I'm not two taken with Kaka, Villa and Shevchenko as a front 3. Kaka isn't a proper playmaker at 10 and Hierro is no Pirlo despite a good passing range. As such Modric will need to have an excellent game slightly deeper to pull the strings. Also Shevchenko was better as a second-striker. In a sense Skizz has too many playmakers and Enigma too few.

Balance wise from both teams the best front three for the diamond would be:

---------Villa
--Kaka-----------
--------Totti-------
 
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Good change Enigma especially since Gustavo can drop between the CBs.
 
When Totti played with Cassano did he have a 10 behind him or was it a front two? Totti was always much more of a playmaker than Baggio who was very much a second striker, essentially most similar to Kaka.

To be fair I'm not two taken with Kaka, Villa and Shevchenko as a front 3. Kaka isn't a proper playmaker at 10 and Hierro is no Pirlo despite a good passing range. As such Modric will need to have an excellent game slightly deeper to pull the strings. Also Shevchenko was better as a second-striker. In a sense Skizz has too many playmakers and Enigma too few.

Balance wise I think the best front three for the diamond would be:

---------Villa
--Kaka-----------
--------Totti-------

I'm not gonna lie, your post confused me here since you merged the two teams together when talking about their faults? :lol:

I'll address what I think was aimed at our team:

Totti was more of a playmaker than Baggio, but you don't become the second highest Serie A scorer without knowing how to find the net. Yes, he has the benefit of longevity on his side, but he's played as the main man leading the line, as well as playmaker and support striker. You put movement around him, and other threats up top with him, and he'll find them and play off them.

We also have goal scorers from midfield, so we don't just have to rely on our front three...but to say we have too many playmakers implies we don't have a real goal threat. With Klinsmann, Totti and Moller all having a good game to goal ratio, it wouldn't be an issue.
 
@Enigma_87

Yap, Alaba is a great move and i can see him and Marcelo have a nice little partnership on the left.

Modric is much more exposed here then in the Real system and needs to put much more work to pull it of. Think you would be better with Gustavo as holding midfielder and Davids unleashed in his box2box role but thats just me.

Davids can participate in the build up and he can play as DM that isnt really a problem but its a bit of a waste(same goes for Lucho on the other side).

Yeah I was genuinely excited to see Alaba in that role and IMO would've been the best option, given Totti was played in #10 and putting Davids on him as he's the main main in S/P team.

I was surprised to see Moller there with Totti more up front.

Alaba also played like 35 times in that position and additionally 5 times as DM, but at the end given what we're up against having Davids in his best position is what we'll have as solution.
 
Sorry, for the last time, have you 'instructed' him to be a holding midfielder here? :D
It had more to do with Totti there, but to your point was going to use a different set of words :D