The so called "world class" player

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Can a player still be considered world class if:

1. He is not able to bring his teammates up to another level, especially in difficult mayches.
2. He needs other world class players around him so that he himself can perform at world class standards.
3. He only has world class perdormance when he plays against small teams.
4. If opponents are top teams with world class players, he mostly play like shit.

What do you think?
 
Pogba is not world class, if that's what you're asking
 
Everyone has a different definition of 'world class', you won't get a definitive answer.
 
Pogba is not world class, if that's what you're asking

If he were playing at Madrid or Barcelona, or Bayern, he most definitely would be - albeit I hate the specific terminology.

In the same vein, if Thiago Alcantara were to play in this current United side, he'd be battered from pillar to post. This happens to practically every player that joins United, and will most probably happen to the supposedly incoming Griezmann, until we can remove ourselves of some of the dross that elsewhere litters our first team. Brilliant players don't really work in broken teams, as much as people like to convince themselves otherwise.
 
Can a player still be considered world class if:

1. He is not able to bring his teammates up to another level, especially in difficult mayches.
2. He needs other world class players around him so that he himself can perform at world class standards.
3. He only has world class perdormance when he plays against small teams.
4. If opponents are top teams with world class players, he mostly play like shit.

What do you think?

Who do you consider world class?
 
A world-class player is a player capable to shine in a World-Cup :)

In other words, he shines in any circumstances.
 
Pogba is not world class, if that's what you're asking
Well people seem to have a different definition of 'world class' Pogba is most certainly in my list of world class players btw. I believe he's one of the best midfielders and one most talented players in the world. But the OP didn't even mention Pogba. Why bring him up straight away? And as @Kag pointed out I also guarantee that if Pogba played for Real or your own club Barca he would be considered world class. Just look at the praise he got at Juve. I seem to remember a lot of non United fans mocking us for letting him go for free. As soon as he joins United he's overrated and not world class. City and Chelsea fans were drooling every summer for the last three years over the idea of Pogba joining their club.
 
I used to consider "World Class" as being a player who would make a World 11. These days, I would probably extend it to those I would pick in a squad of 22.
 
IMO world class is either a player who would walk into any club's first XI in the world, or a player who has been successful where ever he has played.

IMO the only two Utd players who I would call world class are DDG and Ibrahimovic.
 
This is a common discussion and more importantly a completely pointless one due to no one having the same definition of what world class means. It's a vague term used by lazy pundits. Avoid.
 
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Word Class player for me is a consistent player. Does is in different teams/leagues etc with different styles of play. That brings a team up the level and not the other way round.

I think Juan Mata would fit that category for me. Ibrahimovic, De Gea. Mkhitaryan.
 
This happens to practically every player that joins United, and will most probably happen to the supposedly incoming Griezmann, until we can remove ourselves of some of the dross that elsewhere litters our first team. Brilliant players don't really work in broken teams, as much as people like to convince themselves otherwise.

Hang on, what about Ibrahimovich? He's come into the same team and excelled.

What about Jermain Defoe at Sunderland?

Or when Tevez went to that shit West Ham side and kept them up with his brilliance?

Or Siggy at Swansea maintaining an individual form of a top 6 star player while his side struggle?

There are countless examples of players performing higher than the level of their respective team/circumstance, indeed, that's one of the key signals that a player might be 'World Class' when they're young and on the way up.

A player who needs everything to be in place before they can perform to an above average standard consistently, is what I'd call a 'luxury player'.

Basically a good flair player who's a level, or maybe a few levels below 'World Class'.

I'd add that from my experience, 'luxury players' are generally played in positions of little defensive responsibility - traditional 10 or out wide - having such a player in the center of the pitch brings a far different, and more risky element to their inclusion.
 
I finding it amusing that Mata constantly gets called a luxury player even though he's played very well at a number of positions whilst at the club and scored some massive goals against the top teams, whereas Pogba will come good when we get the right players around him.
He's the definition of a luxury player at present.
 
We have a small handful of players with world class potential but we only have one world class player - DDG
 
IMO, the phrase world class is thrown around quite flippantly - where players only need a few months worth of performance to be classified as world class. Everyone has their own definition, but intuitively, you're not a world class player if you're not Top 3 in your position (positions where there is a deficiency of very good players are subject to an even harsher limit - like central defenders in recent years), or aren't selected to the World XI (or the 23 man squad at a stretch) with a list of footballing parameters (and not marketing or popular appeal - which is often the norm with players of the Spanish duo in recent years) that are similar to Eric Batty's in the old World Soccer World XI lists.

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Though there are tiers in that, too, especially in terms of consistency and maintaining a good mean level - some are unstable and drift in a out of the classification (so they're not always world class - like Di María), whereas others are permanent features over several years.

Wrt. the list in the OP:

1. He is not able to bring his teammates up to another level, especially in difficult matches - this one is open to interpretation because some are more suited to certain circumstances. There are players who have solid fundamentals and play at a consistent 'world class' level in the big games, but because of their quieter innate personality, they don't necessarily bring their teammates up to another level. Leadership and aura are intangibles that aren't prerequisites for world class classification, IMO.

2. He needs other world class players around him so that he himself can perform at world class standards - this is also open to interpretation because some world class players struggle when they play with other world class players. On the other end of the spectrum - a lot of world class players played with (or play with) other world class or just below world class level players as part of the team's framework. It isn't about needing world class players, but more of - that's the only evidence you have, and any projection would be purely hypothetical because they haven't actually evidenced a similar level in a weak team. Playing with other world class players is a double edged sword - because you might not shine in that elevated company, or alternatively - it makes things simpler in that some of the others divert the attention away from you. eg. Messi's presence creates room for Neymar. If the latter was at United, he'd be double and triple marked - thus making things subjectively harder for him.

3. He only has world class performance when he plays against small teams - easy, then the player is not world class - with very, very few exceptions.

4. If opponents are top teams with world class players, he mostly play like shit - again, not world class - with very, very few exceptions..
 
What Suarez did at Liverpool was world class. We have De Gea, and possibly Pogba and Miky in the future. They haven't done enough yet.
 
World class is to be one of the best players of your type. if you're referring to Pogba, he'll make it there soon. Looks tired at the moment, which is understandable. Shame our own fans are having a go at him.
 
world class players are only world class until they put in a shit performance. then they're shit. so deems the internet.
 
Well people seem to have a different definition of 'world class' Pogba is most certainly in my list of world class players btw. I believe he's one of the best midfielders and one most talented players in the world. But the OP didn't even mention Pogba. Why bring him up straight away? And as @Kag pointed out I also guarantee that if Pogba played for Real or your own club Barca he would be considered world class. Just look at the praise he got at Juve. I seem to remember a lot of non United fans mocking us for letting him go for free. As soon as he joins United he's overrated and not world class. City and Chelsea fans were drooling every summer for the last three years over the idea of Pogba joining their club.

His performance on Monday was definitely world class.....
 
All 4 of OP's questions condensed into one:
Can a Player who's obviously not world class be considered world class?

The answer is no.
 
Hang on, what about Ibrahimovich? He's come into the same team and excelled.

What about Jermain Defoe at Sunderland?

Or when Tevez went to that shit West Ham side and kept them up with his brilliance?

Or Siggy at Swansea maintaining an individual form of a top 6 star player while his side struggle?

There are countless examples of players performing higher than the level of their respective team/circumstance, indeed, that's one of the key signals that a player might be 'World Class' when they're young and on the way up.

A player who needs everything to be in place before they can perform to an above average standard consistently, is what I'd call a 'luxury player'.

Basically a good flair player who's a level, or maybe a few levels below 'World Class'.

I'd add that from my experience, 'luxury players' are generally played in positions of little defensive responsibility - traditional 10 or out wide - having such a player in the center of the pitch brings a far different, and more risky element to their inclusion.

Ibrahimovic arguably encounters more criticism than the vast majority of players in our squad.

You've missed my point a little, or perhaps it's poorly explained. The point I'm trying to make is that we have lots of very good players that - as of yet - aren't making much of a proper team. We don't play with any real discernible style, and we still field woefully inadequate players like Darmian, Fellaini, Young and perhaps Lingard and Jones on a regular basis.

Until there is a touch more quality in the side, and Mourinho settles on a firm, working starting XI, there is the risk of undervaluing some of the very good players in our squad. Pogba, in particular, has been recognised as one of the most brilliant central midfielders in world football for a number of years now. Yet when he comes to United, still in a state of relative flux, he is suddenly no longer up to the required standard. Or at least that's how it appears at the moment. I'm not buying it. And I don't think the arrival of Griezmann in the summer, or Neymar or Bale or that kid Mbappe, or whoever, would really change much. I think their ability would be scrutinised more than ever before, not too different to the likes of Pogba, Mkhitaryan, Martial, Rashford and Ibrahimovic, and others.
 
Obviously like many have said before, it all comes down to how you define world class. If the answer to your questions is a no, then of course not but that would also mean there are only about 10 world class players in the world, if that! Football is more and more about relying on your team-mates. Defending and attacking are getting more and more merged into a one unit that needs each other to function properly. Footballers are therefore trained in a different way and are expected to perform different things. To me the only quality in a footballer that has been valued since the inception of the game and will remain so for as long as it is played, is the ability to beat an opponent through pace and or skill and disorganising their defensive structure. The players who could and can do that on a regular basis will always be the only ones who resist the changes of definitions to the term world class. The rest are bound by the laws of tactics and systems.
 
Did Suarez do well against top teams while at Liverpool?
From 2013/14 season, was brilliant against united, spurs and everton both times, best player on the pitch at etihad, set up sterling's goal at anfield vs city. Only against chelsea he didn't play well, and arsenal at emirates

Overall, didn't he score against every big side?
 
Pogba who the op is having a go at isn't quite world class yet. Don't get me wrong I,d love him at City and will openly say I was gutted you got him. Thing is he's only 24, I think by the time he's 26 he clearly will be. He's better than his critics and not quite as good as others make out. That said 89m is a good deal as you'll likely see him at United for 10 years.
 
I used to consider "World Class" as being a player who would make a World 11. These days, I would probably extend it to those I would pick in a squad of 22.
Yeah, I prefer this definition. A player who can realistically get into World XI (and as there are more than 11 of them it's better to pick a 23-men squad, although it can be trimmed if you won't get enough candidates, like it should be with defenders these days)
 
To sum all the posts

Strictest sense of the term: a player who belongs to the top 11 (or 22 or 33) best players in the World.
Broadest sense of the term: a player who belongs to the top 100 (or 200...) best players in the World.
 
If he were playing at Madrid or Barcelona, or Bayern, he most definitely would be - albeit I hate the specific terminology.

In the same vein, if Thiago Alcantara were to play in this current United side, he'd be battered from pillar to post. This happens to practically every player that joins United, and will most probably happen to the supposedly incoming Griezmann, until we can remove ourselves of some of the dross that elsewhere litters our first team. Brilliant players don't really work in broken teams, as much as people like to convince themselves otherwise.
Absolutely spot on. Unless you're a Messi, Neymar, level individualistic attacker, you need a team to perform. Pogba would shine at Bayern, thiago would stick here.
 
I hate the term "World Class".What the hell does it mean?
I prefer to use "great player' 'good player' "average player' etc etc.
To my old fashioned mind the 'great player' always put in a top effort and almost always a top performance.He especially does it in big games, against big clubs and in hostile environments such as being a man down and away from home.He also has the ability to bully/inspire/cajole performances from his team mates and to intimidate the opposition.
Do we possess such a player these days?
In my opinion we dont.
 
If he were playing at Madrid or Barcelona, or Bayern, he most definitely would be - albeit I hate the specific terminology.

I don't understand this. There are players on those teams that I wouldn't categorize as world class. If we are referring to Pogba, he played for a very good Juve side in a one side league; was he considered world class in Serie A?
 
I don't understand this. There are players on those teams that I wouldn't categorize as world class. If we are referring to Pogba, he played for a very good Juve side in a one side league; was he considered world class in Serie A?

I don't know. He was considered brilliant by many though, yes. The expectation was that one of Madrid and Barcelona were likely his next destination, something nobody seemed to find outrageous at the time. Now, you'd think he'd by lucky to get a game for Bolton. I'm kidding, slightly, but it's funny how player assessments differ the moment idiot football fans actually start watching footballers play for their own side.
 
Can a player still be considered world class if:

1. He is not able to bring his teammates up to another level, especially in difficult mayches.
2. He needs other world class players around him so that he himself can perform at world class standards.
3. He only has world class perdormance when he plays against small teams.
4. If opponents are top teams with world class players, he mostly play like shit.

What do you think?

1) Yes imo (Ruud? Ronladinho was pretty good at bringing people into games but his fanboys and the media mostly remembered and focused on his indiviual moments)
2) No
3)Yeah I would say so. If he does it consistently then people aren't going to care.
4)Similar quetion to 3. Would depend on the team he plays with I guess.
 
So Pogba isn't playing well because the rest of the team is not on his level? What a load of rubbish.

Same excuse Rooney tried to use when he wanted to leave.