The Search for a Midfielder

Garethw said:
If you got your nose out of Joses backside for just five minutes you’d see that my concerns are actually shared by a large number of fans.

I included Young and Valencia because they are Mourinho’s first choice fullbacks and I can’t see him selling either one any time soon.

At least 50% of Mourinho’s signings have been expensive short term fixes.

I’m all for signing quality experienced players but if the rumours are true and Bale and Vidal are his top transfer targets then that is the very definition of short termism. Especially when you consider that a 22 year old Martial will probably be sold to fund the Bale transfer.
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* There are also a lot of fans that think he’s doing a good job also.
* Who’d buy either Young or Valencia and would it be worth selling? Plus Shaw not coming good is not all on Jose. Shaws fitness and attitude leave a lot to be desired.
* Budget wise Jose has took some experienced options with Zlatan Matic and Sanchez but truth is we couldn’t have bought thees guys at 25 with our budget right now considering the amount of deadwood needing shifted and replaced. Expensive??? Every transfer is expensive nowadays look at City across the road. Stones a £50m bench warmer.
* I get you may not agree with a lot of Jose’s ways but need to be more balanced.
 
Rossa said:
Thing is, if you look at the Ballon d'Or list of nominees, you will notice that in the top ten there will usually be more candidates over 30 than under. It is far from uncommon that players are at their absolute best after thirty.

I believe I read somewhere that males hit their absolute physical peak at 27, give or take, and that the downhill slope after is very slow. Rooney lost his footballing mojo. He carried extra weight and looked disinterested. Schweinsteiger I agree looked physically shot, but also carried extra weight. Carrick has played some of his best football after 30, so I certainly don't agree with him. Yes, you have to adapt a little as your energy at 30 is not the same as at 20, but that tweak can improve you as a player.

With injuries, things can go tits up really badly for young players as well - look at Shaw.

Fans moan that Shaw should play ahead of Young because he is the future. Well, the best player should play no matter the age. It would perhaps be foolish if we had bought Young as a replacement for Shaw, but as long as both are at the club, the best player should play. Also, Young matched, or even bettered, Salah for pace, so at 32 or so, he ain't too sluggish, and he was never our fastest player either. Navas, at 30 something rinsed Shaw for speed. Valencia has done the same with many 20 year olds.

Whenever a player at 30+ has a poor spell, he is done for, lost a yard of pace etc. But there are so many examples where that is disproven, yet people still go on about it. There is simply too much emphasis on age. The best players should play, and then you also build for the future. Thus next year, for example, I would like us to either give TFM a chance to compete with Valencia or buy a replacement for Valencia and still promote TFM, but then Valencia needs to go. One up and coming talented young player and an established player (some times that can be the same player).

Look at some of the world's best players in their positions: Luka Modric, Marcelo, Ronaldo, Messi, Suarez, Lewandowski, Ramos, Boateng. Sanchez probably had his best season ever last year at 28. Lingard is finding his feet at 25.
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Agree that it is common players around 30-33 something can still be very good.

Carrick did indeed have his best season in his career at 32, was amazing that season, but he fell apart very quickly after that. Has been pretty poor for the last 4 seasons now.

I think that there is an inevitable decline in the early thirties for most players. And by that i mean around 32-34.
A guy like Ronaldo has always been obsessive about his fitness and he is at 33 a shadow of the player he was at 25-29. (He is so talented tho he is still world class)

The difference for Shaw is that he still has lots of time to get his career back on track.
 
Klippity said:
The problem is, Mourinho doesn't really 'do' young players.

Both in terms of buying & developing.

He buys players ready made to come in and do the job he wants.

Man City have bought really well as the above poster listed, as not only quality players for the present. Due to some many of their players being young, they will only keep improving and developing - which is a scary thought.

Mourinho has bought players to deliver in the short term - Zlatan, Sanchez, Matic

He plays the players to deliver now - Young over Shaw, for example.

There might be the odd exception to the rule. But generally I think that's the way he acts and given his CV he;s be highly successful at doing it. But Man City & Pep will make it tougher than ever for him to succeed that way again. I wouldn't put it past him though.

But expect a 'Alderweireld' midfielder as a opposed to a 'Davision Sanchez' to use a Spurs example (albeit a different position) of the age and development of players that Jose will probably buy. I don't know who that midfielder will be, but I doubt they'll be young and raw.

Vidal would be the player I'd most expect him to get of the ones you've been linked with. As he's ready to deliver now.
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Think that's a bit shortsighted when you consider Mourinho has also signed Bailly, Lukaku and Pogba who are all under 25. He's also given Mctominay his breakthrough season, continued to play Rashford and took Lingard to his best ever form. With Mourinho if you're good enough, you're good enough. Age isn't really a factor. It was mentioned when he signed a new deal that the club believes he's continued to promote the ethos of developing and giving opportunities to youth and I'd agree.

Yes he's also bought more experienced players but every side needs balance and the likes of Zlatan and Sanchez are the types of player you don't turn your nose up at when they become available. No team in the world would. In relation to Matic? Well we have been crying out for a player like him since Fergie so he very much filled a gaping hole in our midfield which was massively needed.

This myth about the players he buys and the team he picks is very frustrating when you look at the above points.
 
Sir Alex Ferguson used to say "if you're good enough, you're old enough" - I remember him saying this about the class of '92. He also showed that he believed that if you were good enough, age didn't matter in either direction. You only have to look at both ends of Giggs' career for the proof.

Young is playing because he is playing pretty well, if Shaw was playing better than Young (which he isn't) he'd be playing. Pogba and Herrera both lost form, and McTominay has been playing. Pogba showed some semblance of form, back in the team... Carrick has plenty of experience, and I understand he's fit again... but he's obviously not training as well as others, so he's not playing. Age has a whole lot less to do with it than some think.

People want us to play the young player with potential, but even if say Martial goes on to become World Class (I'm a big fan, but he isn't even close atm) then he will be the experienced player, playing instead of a player with potential. You don't get to be a young player in the Manchester United squad without having potential.

It's very simple.
 
Klippity said:
The problem is, Mourinho doesn't really 'do' young players.

Both in terms of buying & developing.

He buys players ready made to come in and do the job he wants.
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Quite possibly the shittest genuine post I've seen in here for a while from @Klippity

Klippity said:
Mourinho has bought players to deliver in the short term - Zlatan, Sanchez, Matic
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Are we just ignoring that Mourinho bought: Lukaku at age 24, Pogba at age 23, Lindelöf at age 22, Bailly at age 22.
Zlatan is the only true "short term" signing Mourinho has made, but it was a massive name that helped attract Pogba to the club and the big money that Summer was better spent on Pogba rather than a 90m forward and no midfield.

Aside from Zlatan it's been Matic 28 - > Carrick 36 and Sanchez 29 -> Rooney 32.

As for your nonsense talk about Pep, he bought 27 yr old Kyle Walker, 29 year old Nolito and 33 year old Bravo so…
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
Quite possibly the shittest genuine post I've seen in here for a while from @Klippity



Are we just ignoring that Mourinho bought: Lukaku at age 24, Pogba at age 23, Lindelöf at age 22, Bailly at age 22.
Zlatan is the only true "short term" signing Mourinho has made, but it was a massive name that helped attract Pogba to the club and the big money that Summer was better spent on Pogba rather than a 90m forward and no midfield.

Aside from Zlatan it's been Matic 28 - > Carrick 36 and Sanchez 29 -> Rooney 32.

As for your nonsense talk about Pep, he bought 27 yr old Kyle Walker, 29 year old Nolito and 33 year old Bravo so…
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Thanks for talking sense and stopping the Jose haters from spouting unfactual nonsense.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
Quite possibly the shittest genuine post I've seen in here for a while from @Klippity



Are we just ignoring that Mourinho bought: Lukaku at age 24, Pogba at age 23, Lindelöf at age 22, Bailly at age 22.
Zlatan is the only true "short term" signing Mourinho has made, but it was a massive name that helped attract Pogba to the club and the big money that Summer was better spent on Pogba rather than a 90m forward and no midfield.

Aside from Zlatan it's been Matic 28 - > Carrick 36 and Sanchez 29 -> Rooney 32.

As for your nonsense talk about Pep, he bought 27 yr old Kyle Walker, 29 year old Nolito and 33 year old Bravo so…
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Indeed the transfer policy in terms of age has actually been balanced. 50% have been 28+ and 50% 25 and under
 
Cassidy said:
Indeed the transfer policy in terms of age has actually been balanced. 50% have been 28+ and 50% 25 and under
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On top of that, If a player such as Ibrahimovic becomes available on a free transfer, or Sanchez as part of a swap deal, you'd be absolutely nuts not to grab those opportunities.
 
Gordon S said:
Agree that it is common players around 30-33 something can still be very good.

Carrick did indeed have his best season in his career at 32, was amazing that season, but he fell apart very quickly after that. Has been pretty poor for the last 4 seasons now.

I think that there is an inevitable decline in the early thirties for most players. And by that i mean around 32-34.
A guy like Ronaldo has always been obsessive about his fitness and he is at 33 a shadow of the player he was at 25-29. (He is so talented tho he is still world class)

The difference for Shaw is that he still has lots of time to get his career back on track.
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I think most players lose their motivation at some stage, but yes, you do start to lose your physical attributes slowly when you get older. However, there are many examples of people having great fitness, speed and stamina in the mid thirties or even forties. I remember watching Overmars at 40 in a fundraiser, and he was still blistering. Giggs was no slouch at 40 either, and Distin at Everton was rapid at 35. Robben was arguably faster at 30 than he was at 20. Ronaldo last season in the CL probably produced the best latter-stage CL performances ever. He doesn't play the same way as before, but he is still just as influential.

There is an inevitable decline that comes with age, but that varies with motivation, injuries etc. Rooney was physically declining at 27-28, and RVP declined physically after Ferguson left, which I think was also down to motivation.

Concerning Carrick, you also have to take into consideration what midfielders he has had next to him in his last four years. Carrick has still proven immensely important and valuable to the team, even when he has now suffered more injuries (sadly a recurrent theme with age) and has had partners of varying quality next to him.

Shaw does have time on his hand. However, would you rather play him ahead of Young who is currently outperforming him, or would you have Shaw deputise and take over when he is better than Young? That is how it used to be, but now the younger players believe their own hype and demand a starting position in the first team at 17.

Another thing with the whole age discussion is that you just cannot expect to hold onto players for much more than 5 years anyhow. So even if you get a young and promising 20 year old, you will mold them into their prime, and then sell them on because they want a new challenge or a pay rise. That of course begs the question, what is more favourable to a club that has plenty of money, but the results are lacking?
 
Ikon said:
On top of that, If a player such as Ibrahimovic becomes available on a free transfer, or Sanchez as part of a swap deal, you'd be absolutely nuts not to grab those opportunities.
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Besides, in that swap deal, we swapped one 29 year old for another. Sanchez born December 88, Mhiki January 89.
 
TheReligion said:
Think that's a bit shortsighted when you consider Mourinho has also signed Bailly, Lukaku and Pogba who are all under 25. He's also given Mctominay his breakthrough season, continued to play Rashford and took Lingard to his best ever form. With Mourinho if you're good enough, you're good enough. Age isn't really a factor. It was mentioned when he signed a new deal that the club believes he's continued to promote the ethos of developing and giving opportunities to youth and I'd agree.

Yes he's also bought more experienced players but every side needs balance and the likes of Zlatan and Sanchez are the types of player you don't turn your nose up at when they become available. No team in the world would. In relation to Matic? Well we have been crying out for a player like him since Fergie so he very much filled a gaping hole in our midfield which was massively needed.

This myth about the players he buys and the team he picks is very frustrating when you look at the above points.
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When I said he doesn't really do younger players, I meant having the patience to develop them. So 'projects' was probably a better term. He's not really known for 'bringing through youth'.

Yes he's signed a few players around 25 years of age, which I don't consider young. Lukaku for example he had at Chelsea and could often have kept him, but instead he'd keep loaning him out, partly because he had stiff competition, but also because he was raw and Mourinho didn't trust him. He doesn't appear to trust Shaw, over Young. I can't think of many players of the years who he has brought through the youth teams and really developed. As he doesn't stick around in jobs long enough to see the rewards of doing that approach. He buys for now and yes he's buying Pogba, Bailly & Lukaku (again not what I consider young, I'm talking Rashford, Shaw's age) and he bought them because he thinks those players are ready to deliver now and they are.

Mctominay is playing because he doesn't trust Pogba to play in a CM two and he's the best option they've had to do that role at present. Do I think he'll be a regular starter for him next season? No. In fact I feel that's the main position Manchester United need in the summer, that partner for Matic and one which will allow Pogba to thrive. Mctominany is not the answer for Mourinho, in my opinion.

So yes, Mourinho doesn't really do young players who he has the patience to build and see them develop. He buys players to deliver now and those 'young' players you have mentioned have been bought to do that.

I am not criticising his approach either, his record is extremely impressive for what he does. So why change it. He inherited some young players, he's not really bought many 18-22 years old ready looking to coach and improve for the long term. But his managerial record suggest he won't be at United for the long term, so I can see why he hasn't.

Regulus Arcturus Black said:
Quite possibly the shittest genuine post I've seen in here for a while from @Klippity



Are we just ignoring that Mourinho bought: Lukaku at age 24, Pogba at age 23, Lindelöf at age 22, Bailly at age 22.
Zlatan is the only true "short term" signing Mourinho has made, but it was a massive name that helped attract Pogba to the club and the big money that Summer was better spent on Pogba rather than a 90m forward and no midfield.

Aside from Zlatan it's been Matic 28 - > Carrick 36 and Sanchez 29 -> Rooney 32.

As for your nonsense talk about Pep, he bought 27 yr old Kyle Walker, 29 year old Nolito and 33 year old Bravo so…
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Well the first sentence is not exactly constructive or insightful. I'm new here and yes I suppose I'll get some stick for being a LFC fan. But I do like debate and I don't think I am always right. I am open to change my mind as you know your club better than I do. I am just offering my opinion in a friendly manner from an outside perspective. If you don't consider a player like Sanchez or Matic short term signings for 2 or 3 years, then fine - I do.

I think I have answered the rest in my above post.

IrishRedDevil said:
Thanks for talking sense and stopping the Jose haters from spouting unfactual nonsense.
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I'm not a Jose hater. I respect what he has done and you can't knock his CV. He knows how to win & he's done it at United already and I wouldn't put it past him winning more given the players you have, your resources and his history as a manager.

I just merely said he doesn't really do young players. That wasn't a criticism of him. He wants players to come to do the job straight away.

Young players is a subjective term, as people have different ideas on what is young. OK let me rephrase it, he doesn't really buy players who will be ready to deliver in 3 years times. He wants those players to peak and deliver straight away. The' young' players United have signed in Lukaku, Pogba & Bailly are all capable of doing that. But City are buying younger players than United, sorry but it's true and when they are already better than you (and every other team in the league) and those younger players are only going to get better. It's a scary thought.

But as I said Man Utd shouldn't really worry about players age, wages or transfer fees given your resources. You should care about winning and you have the right manager to satisfy those needs.

Ikon said:
On top of that, If a player such as Ibrahimovic becomes available on a free transfer, or Sanchez as part of a swap deal, you'd be absolutely nuts not to grab those opportunities.
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Certainly, as I said it wasn't criticism.

I fully expect you to sign Alderweireld and he'd be a great buy for you or anyone else.
 
Klippity said:
When I said he doesn't really do younger players, I meant having the patience to develop them. So 'projects' was probably a better term. He's not really known for 'bringing through youth'.

Yes he's signed a few players around 25 years of age, which I don't consider young. Lukaku for example he had at Chelsea and could often have kept him, but instead he'd keep loaning him out, partly because he had stiff competition, but also because he was raw and Mourinho didn't trust him. He doesn't appear to trust Shaw, over Young. I can't think of many players of the years who he has brought through the youth teams and really developed. As he doesn't stick around in jobs long enough to see the rewards of doing that approach. He buys for now and yes he's buying Pogba, Bailly & Lukaku (again not what I consider young, I'm talking Rashford, Shaw's age) and he bought them because he thinks those players are ready to deliver now and they are.

Mctominay is playing because he doesn't trust Pogba to play in a CM two and he's the best option they've had to do that role at present. Do I think he'll be a regular starter for him next season? No. In fact I feel that's the main position Manchester United need in the summer, that partner for Matic and one which will allow Pogba to thrive. Mctominany is not the answer for Mourinho, in my opinion.

So yes, Mourinho doesn't really do young players who he has the patience to build and see them develop. He buys players to deliver now and those 'young' players you have mentioned have been bought to do that.

I am not criticising his approach either, his record is extremely impressive for what he does. So why change it. He inherited some young players, he's not really bought many 18-22 years old ready looking to coach and improve for the long term. But his managerial record suggest he won't be at United for the long term, so I can see why he hasn't.



Well the first sentence is not exactly constructive or insightful. I'm new here and yes I suppose I'll get some stick for being a LFC fan. But I do like debate and I don't think I am always right. I am open to change my mind as you know your club better than I do. I am just offering my opinion in a friendly manner from an outside perspective. If you don't consider a player like Sanchez or Matic short term signings for 2 or 3 years, then fine - I do.

I think I have answered the rest in my above post.



I'm not a Jose hater. I respect what he has done and you can't knock his CV. He knows how to win & he's done it at United already and I wouldn't put it past him winning more given the players you have, your resources and his history as a manager.

I just merely said he doesn't really do young players. That wasn't a criticism of him. He wants players to come to do the job straight away.

Young players is a subjective term, as people have different ideas on what is young. OK let me rephrase it, he doesn't really buy players who will be ready to deliver in 3 years times. He wants those players to peak and deliver straight away. The' young' players United have signed in Lukaku, Pogba & Bailly are all capable of doing that. But City are buying younger players than United, sorry but it's true and when they are already better than you (and every other team in the league) and those younger players are only going to get better. It's a scary thought.

But as I said Man Utd shouldn't really worry about players age, wages or transfer fees given your resources. You should care about winning and you have the right manager to satisfy those needs.



Certainly, as I said it wasn't criticism.

I fully expect you to sign Alderweireld and he'd be a great buy for you or anyone else.
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I’ve gotta say fair play. Your points are well made in hostile territory!
 
@Klippity

If you don't consider Pogba 23, Bailly 22, Lindleoff 22 and Lukaku at 24 as young signings I'm not sure what qualifies?

I'm addition what managers in the PL are buying players in a lower age bracket any regularly playing them in comparison to Mourinho?

I appreciate you have said you're not being critical of him but I do feel he has changed his outlook and profile of player somewhat. He's also handed the likes of Mctominay, Tuanzebe, Gomes their first team debuts whilst continuing to play Rashford, Lingard and Martial throughout the season.
 
Klippity said:
When I said he doesn't really do younger players, I meant having the patience to develop them. So 'projects' was probably a better term. He's not really known for 'bringing through youth'.
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He just brought McTominay through and the lad is having a solid season with us. Who have Klopp brought through? TAA? He's only playing because Clyne is injured.

Klippity said:
Yes he's signed a few players around 25 years of age, which I don't consider young. Lukaku for example he had at Chelsea and could often have kept him, but instead he'd keep loaning him out, partly because he had stiff competition, but also because he was raw and Mourinho didn't trust him.
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So what constitutes young these days? 20? Who have Klopp signed who is by your definition young? Care to share a few examples?

Klippity said:
Mctominay is playing because he doesn't trust Pogba to play in a CM two
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He could have easily played Ander instead of McTominay. So, he doesn't trust Ander too?

If you are here for a debate, by all means go ahead, but the amount of shit posting you have done is truly ridiculous. Your front three is older than ours before Sanchez came in. So, by your definition (25 isn't young), Klopp also signed a old players as well?
 
I came in this thread to read about possible midfielders.... read 2 pages of age related posts about current players.....
I must have clicked on a different post obviously....
 
Ikon said:
On top of that, If a player such as Ibrahimovic becomes available on a free transfer, or Sanchez as part of a swap deal, you'd be absolutely nuts not to grab those opportunities.
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Absolutely but like stats the actual important part gets lost as people twist it to suit their narrative. Jose is doing good but Pep has been brilliant this season domestically. Jose long term needs to quickly address the style of our play no doubt but that will change with new players I’m positive.
 
Sorry for the grouped replies, but I only have a 3 post allowance on here:

TheReligion said:
@Klippity

If you don't consider Pogba 23, Bailly 22, Lindleoff 22 and Lukaku at 24 as young signings I'm not sure what qualifies?

I'm addition what managers in the PL are buying players in a lower age bracket any regularly playing them in comparison to Mourinho?

I appreciate you have said you're not being critical of him but I do feel he has changed his outlook and profile of player somewhat. He's also handed the likes of Mctominay, Tuanzebe, Gomes their first team debuts whilst continuing to play Rashford, Lingard and Martial throughout the season.
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I thought Bailly & Lindleoff were slightly older than that, so fair play - I'll agree with you on those two.

I would have thought Pep & Klopp do. Maybe Poch too, I don't know. Again it wasn't criticism of Mourinho.

I just remember him at Chelsea buying lots of promising young players, but them getting hardly any chances and had to leave or stagnated. Parker, SWP types. I guess maybe Salah & De Bruyne are two other examples of having to move elsewhere to thrive. I think Luke Shaw probably needs to leave if he's going to develop as I can't see it happening under Mourinho.

Rashford might force his way into his plans. He's incredibly talented and if he has impacts like he did against LFC that might make Mourinho think he can be ready to deliver now. But I suspect he'll try to buy a Bale type in the summer which could push him further down the pecking order behind Sanchez, Bale (if he signs) & Lukaku. More established players. Again that's not criticism of Mourinho, but I do believe young players like Rashford, Shaw need to play regularly to continue to develop and fulfil their potential. LFC didn't do that to someone like Suso and now he's thriving at Milan. United didn't do it to Pogba and he had to leave to flourish. Just saying I don't expect much youth to come through under Mourinho.

He might buy a young players if he feels they are ready to deliver now. But ultimately what Mourinho cares about is the here & now, not 5 years times, unlike some other managers. But with his CV and record, you can see why he does that and if he wins you the league with that method you won't be complaining.

SwSw said:
He just brought McTominay through and the lad is having a solid season with us. Who have Klopp brought through? TAA? He's only playing because Clyne is injured.

So what constitutes young these days? 20? Who have Klopp signed who is by your definition young? Care to share a few examples?

He could have easily played Ander instead of McTominay. So, he doesn't trust Ander too?

If you are here for a debate, by all means go ahead, but the amount of shit posting you have done is truly ridiculous. Your front three is older than ours before Sanchez came in. So, by your definition (25 isn't young), Klopp also signed a old players as well?
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I think McTomminay is playing because he doesn't trust Pogba in a CM two. Carrick doesn't have the energy anymore & needs must. I'd be surprised if he was your first choice next season.

TAA & Gomez have been playing all season, yes they got more match time because Clyne is injured. Klopp didn't go into the transfer market, he trusted these two despite Clynes injury. The youth at LFC in my opinion has not been the best for a fair while and not sure who else he could have been bought through at the moment. I do think Woodburn & Brewster have the best chances to do that. But stiff competition ahead of them so it's tough. It's tough at United, do you want the best (Sanchez) or the project (Rashford). Ideally you want both, but it's very hard to do that, which is often why so many younger players need to leave to flourish. But I accept your point it is very tough for all managers to bring through youth. But Ferguson was someone who used to be very good at doing that. Pep did it at Barca and he's buying young players at City who he is coaching & moulding into an incredible side.

At Dortmund Klopp showed he will develop young players and he improves players. Not convinced Mourinho improves players. He buys players who are brilliant to do a brilliant job. Again, not criticism.

To contradict myself, I do think Lingard has improved immeasurably this season, so I'll give Mourinho credit for that.

Lawman said:
Absolutely but like stats the actual important part gets lost as people twist it to suit their narrative. Jose is doing good but Pep has been brilliant this season domestically. Jose long term needs to quickly address the style of our play no doubt but that will change with new players I’m positive.
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I think Pep is certainly making the jobs of Mourinho, Klopp etc look worse. I agree Mourinho is doing a good job, you're 2nd in the league for a reason.

Not sure Jose does long term though. He's more likely to leave & win somewhere else than change his style of play. History would suggest that!
 
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Klippity said:
I think McTomminay is playing because he doesn't trust Pogba in a CM two. Carrick doesn't have the energy anymore & needs must. I'd be surprised if he was your first choice next season.

TAA & Gomez have been playing all season, yes they got more match time because Clyne is injured. Klopp didn't go into the transfer market, he trusted these two despite Clynes injury. The youth at LFC in my opinion has not been the best for a fair while and not sure who else he could have been bought through at the moment. I do think Woodburn & Brewster have the best chances to do that. But stiff competition ahead of them so it's tough. It's tough at United, do you want the best (Sanchez) or the project (Rashford). Ideally you want both, but it's very hard to do that, which is often why so many younger players need to leave to flourish. But I accept your point it is very tough for all managers to bring through youth. But Ferguson was someone who used to be very good at doing that. Pep did it at Barca and he's buying young players at City who he is coaching & moulding into an incredible side.

At Dortmund Klopp showed he will develop young players and he improves players. Not convinced Mourinho improves players. He buys players who are brilliant to do a brilliant job. Again, not criticism.

To contradict myself, I do think Lingard has improved immeasurably this season, so I'll give Mourinho credit for that.
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So you give credit to Klopp for not going into the transfer market and played TAA and Gomez when Clyne got injured but when Mourinho plays McTominay ahead of Pogba (who just recovered), is because he doesn't trust Pogba? solid logic there. Since Mourinho doesn't trust Pogba and plays McTominay, does this mean he doesn't trust Herrera as well?

Pep did what at Barca? He had Messi. You claim city is buying youth and moulding them into an incredible side but fails to give credit to Mourinho for moulding Martial, Rashford and Lingard who all had better numbers this season. Why the bias? Heck, even Lukaku has improved tremendously since he came.

At Dortmund. Let's stop there. Is easy to play/develop youth when the pressure is off.
 
I believe that is what you call mental gymnastics.

When Rashford played almost every game; there was this claim that it didn't count because there were no other options. Ignoring that Martial was right there behind Rashford waiting to pounce on the LW spot.

Now when McTominay plays it's not based on his own quality, its because there are dressing room problems between Mourinho and Pogba. Ignoring that he has shown mature performances so far.

They even go as far as to admit that Lingard has improved massively under Mourinho, their rational mind is telling them that the previous monologue they've written is bollocks, but their subconscious mind can't bring itself to give full credit to Mourinho.
 
Fellaini Off, Carrick retires, Herrera in doubt. I hope we sign two, Fabinho, great player, can also play right back, and Mateo Kovacic, very underated midfielder, great passer, high workrate.
 
Of the ones we've been linked with;

Verratti - PSG might be willing to sell this summer, he's got a lot of what we are missing, he can dictate a game and he's feisty in the tackle, the one concern is that like Pogba he can be immature. Also after today's revelations from Guardiola might rule out any further business with Raiola.

Kroos - Has most of what Verratti has but with a winners experience and maturiy, but minus the the grund coverage which could be an issue with Matic as our DM.

Jorginho - A lesser version of the two above but still good, not 100% sure he'd suit the PL though.

Milinković-Savić - He's a very good player but is the furthest thing from what we need in a CM to add to this midfield.

Fred - I haven't seen a lot of him but he seems like a bit of a Jack of all trades master of none, not convinced.

Seri - He's decent, not sure he's really top level though and that condition he has doesn't seem ideal for our shitty weather.

Mateo Kovacic - Has a bit over everything in his game and is only going to get better, but seems the logical heir to Modric for Real.


A couple of others we aren't linked with;

Fabian Ruiz - Reminds me a lot of Saul Niguez but a better passer, he's versatile and has a low buyout clause.

Ruben Neves - He'll probably be regarded as too high risk but he is a proper DLP who is robust enough for the PL and has developed his defensive game this season, he reminds me so much of Xabi Alonso.
 
I wonder if we're misinterpreting his remarks and that he's not talking about a central midfielder. Mata basically plays as a right sided midfielder. maybe he's looking at an upgrade there.
 
What a midfielder Fernandinho is of City.

This exact mould of midfielder United should be looking to sign, fast, physically strong, superb passer and the ability to collect the ball from the defenders and ping it over the top looking in spaces for attackers to run onto.
 
sully1 said:
What a midfielder Fernandinho is of City.

This exact mould of midfielder United should be looking to sign, fast, physically strong, superb passer and the ability to collect the ball from the defenders and ping it over the top looking in spaces for attackers to run onto.
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Yeh. Him and Kante are the best DM in the league.
 
MyOnlySolskjaer said:
Oğuzhan Özyakup looks like a hidden gem.
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As a person who watches him regularly, believe me he is not. Wenger sold him knowing that. He is probably the most overrated player in Turkey in the last couple of years and found his level when he went to Beşiktaş. He is out of contract in 2-3 months time and is flirting with the likes of Newcastle and Everton which is probably his best bet to play in a better football environment and at a better level in his career.
 
Scholsey2004 said:
I wonder if we're misinterpreting his remarks and that he's not talking about a central midfielder. Mata basically plays as a right sided midfielder. maybe he's looking at an upgrade there.
Click to expand...

Mata plays on the right in a 4-2-3-1, so more like a RAM/RW than RM. He's also mentioned Carrick (and possibly Fellaini) quitting is why we need to sign a midfielder. That points to a CDM/CM, not a RM.
 
Think we should go all out and try to sign Verratti.
PSG are in trouble with FFP and maybe they are willing to sell a big star.
Verratti wanted to leave last summer and he has said a few times about how he would like to play with Pogba.
He can work in a 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3.
Very good passer,can control games well too.
A bit immature at times and a bit reckless,but I think those flaws can be ironed out
But I don't know how I feel about another Raiola client
 
Sanche7 said:
Think we should go all out and try to sign Verratti.
PSG are in trouble with FFP and maybe they are willing to sell a big star.
Verratti wanted to leave last summer and he has said a few times about how he would like to play with Pogba.
He can work in a 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3.
Very good passer,can control games well too.
A bit immature at times and a bit reckless,but I think those flaws can be ironed out
But I don't know how I feel about another Raiola client
Click to expand...

Admittedly it's a small sample size, but every time I watch Verratti he's barely been able to control himself never mind the game. He always reminds me of the player Jack Wilshere might have been without the injuries. Seems almost as unlikable too.
 
Sanche7 said:
Think we should go all out and try to sign Verratti.
PSG are in trouble with FFP and maybe they are willing to sell a big star.
Verratti wanted to leave last summer and he has said a few times about how he would like to play with Pogba.
He can work in a 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3.
Very good passer,can control games well too.
A bit immature at times and a bit reckless,but I think those flaws can be ironed out
But I don't know how I feel about another Raiola client
Click to expand...
Italian players are often linked with moves to the PL but rarely can I remember those moves materialising. Think PSG would demand close to £100m in this market too, which I actually think is out of our price bracket.

Ruben Neves is a risk I would be willing to take and we should be in pole position with Mourinho and he sharing Jorge Mendes as agent. We will probably pass up the opportunity though. :rolleyes:
 
MUFC OK said:
Italian players are often linked with moves to the PL but rarely can I remember those moves materialising. Think PSG would demand close to £100m in this market too, which I actually think is out of our price bracket.

Ruben Neves is a risk I would be willing to take and we should be in pole position with Mourinho and he sharing Jorge Mendes as agent. We will probably pass up the opportunity though. :rolleyes:
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Would rather buy Verratti for 100 than Vidal for 40-50
 
Looks like we're losing Fellaini & Carrick is done. McTom could be sent out on loan to get more minutes next season. And Pereira is a wildcard.

IMO, it'll be great biz if we're able to get any 2 from:
  1. SMS
  2. Kante
  3. Kovacic
  4. Thiago
  5. Fred
  6. Pjanic
  7. Fabinho
Am assuming Koke, Saul, Kroos & Modric are unattainable.

Dembele, Nainggolan, Vidal, Javi Martinez, Matuidi, are all great midfielders but on the wrong side of 30 so won't fit our transfer profile.

To me, any of
Weigl, rabiot, Ruben Neves, Kondogbia, Doucoure, Seri, Jorginho, Ceballos, Verratti, joao Mario, meyer, ndidi, gueye, n'dombele, Ruiz, kessie
would be alright but not the best we can aim for in this window.

A pity we weren't in for Goretzka or Keita. Both are quality.
 
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Love Verratti but never happening. I agree with people saying we need two, SMS is just too similar to Pogba and not seen that much of him but what I have seem a bit hyped and flavour of the month. I have been very impressed with Neves, remember a Portugal fan on here a year or so ago talking him up, had not heard of him then tbh. Another not seen this season at Zenit but looked very good at Roma, if far from the finished article is Paredes. Think these are two possibly great signings, even only one of them works out we could have a good midfield. Likes of Verratti, Koke, Saul I see as highly unlikely to materialise. Martinez, Vidal, Kroos, Modric are all great players but bar Kroos at the wrong age and ust the kind of signings we have made post Fergie that havent worked.
Personally think a lot of the over names mentioned would be over priced and over rated. I do think Weigl, Thiago are quality and better players than Neves and Parades....just think the latter two would be the perfect fit in terms of what we need to put with Matic and Pogba.
 
I really want Herrera to be the guy but we can't take the risk, we need to sign someone who can guarantee a performance like Herrera did today but consistently and let them battle it out.
 
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