The Search for a Midfielder

Cheekiey said:
This is a shot in the dark but imagine what a midfield trio of Herrera, Pogba and Thiago would play like. Thiago is alot more defensively sound than most think before you jump on me for that. Just think we lack that creative spark that isn't Pogba. Wonder if he fancies a new challenge? pretty certain he isn't on mega wages either
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was saying this to the people I was watching the game with last night. Pogba is top class but he can't do it all on his own, there are spells in the game where he's quiet. When he is we are expecting the likes of matic or Herrera to pick up the slack creatively and against top level opposition it's not good enough. I don't think we need a defensive mid like Matic. I appreciate he has looked better under Ole but we need to partner herrera with him for his energy which Matic doesn't have. Our defensive mid should be able to protect the back 4 and track runners. We shouldn't need 2 players to be doing that role. We need a central mid who can dictate the pace of the game and be creative, help Pogba somewhat. The amount of space and time PSG had in front of our back four was too much.I think the addition of a quality centre half improves us massively as well and possibly reduce the feeling we need 2 mids acting as defensive cover
 
Cheekiey said:
This is a shot in the dark but imagine what a midfield trio of Herrera, Pogba and Thiago would play like. Thiago is alot more defensively sound than most think before you jump on me for that. Just think we lack that creative spark that isn't Pogba. Wonder if he fancies a new challenge? pretty certain he isn't on mega wages either
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Unfortunately I doubt that Munich are willing to part with him, considering he's one of their best players and if anything he's probably going to be a cornerstone of this rebuild, they are currently doing.
 
poleglass red said:
was saying this to the people I was watching the game with last night. Pogba is top class but he can't do it all on his own, there are spells in the game where he's quiet. When he is we are expecting the likes of matic or Herrera to pick up the slack creatively and against top level opposition it's not good enough. I don't think we need a defensive mid like Matic. I appreciate he has looked better under Ole but we need to partner herrera with him for his energy which Matic doesn't have. Our defensive mid should be able to protect the back 4 and track runners. We shouldn't need 2 players to be doing that role. We need a central mid who can dictate the pace of the game and be creative, help Pogba somewhat. The amount of space and time PSG had in front of our back four was too much.I think the addition of a quality centre half improves us massively as well and possibly reduce the feeling we need 2 mids acting as defensive cover
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Yeah I agree fully with that you're saying, a creative midfielder is the answer regardless of who it is. When Pogba is man marked out of the game there has to be someone who can dictate the game and expose the gaps the CM who is marking pogba is leaving ect.


bucky said:
Unfortunately I doubt that Munich are willing to part with him, considering he's one of their best players and if anything he's probably going to be a cornerstone of this rebuild, they are currently doing.
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Hmm not even if we do what we usually do and offer ridiculous wages? but if not the closest thing to him in terms of like for like player is Houssem Aouar from Lyon, was shocked at how similar they're play styles are obviously he's not on Thiago's level but has shown all the signs that he could reach it and he would be gettable
 
Cheekiey said:
This is a shot in the dark but imagine what a midfield trio of Herrera, Pogba and Thiago would play like. Thiago is alot more defensively sound than most think before you jump on me for that. Just think we lack that creative spark that isn't Pogba. Wonder if he fancies a new challenge? pretty certain he isn't on mega wages either
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I've been banging on the Thiago drum for a while and according to Bild, Bayern were willing to sell him last summer. I definitely agree with the bolded, he had a great game at #6 in the 2nd leg of the CL semis against Real last season. Why we decided Fred would be better than someone like him or Ndombele is beyond me. He'd be an amazing signing for us, capable of playing in any of our three midfield positions and only now entering his prime, but as @bucky said, he's been one of their better players this season, so I'm not sure they'll be interested. I guess the situation regarding them keeping James could change things though.
 
SS said:
I've been banging on the Thiago drum for a while and according to Bild, Bayern were willing to sell him last summer. I definitely agree with the bolded, he had a great game at #6 in the 2nd leg of the CL semis against Real last season. Why we decided Fred would be better than someone like him or Ndombele is beyond me. He'd be an amazing signing for us, capable of playing in any of our three midfield positions and only now entering his prime, but as @bucky said, he's been one of their better players this season, so I'm not sure they'll be interested. I guess the situation regarding them keeping James could change things though.
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Yeah that's true, I would of thought Aouar is much more like Thiago than Ndombele, I do like the look of him.
 
Cheekiey said:
Yeah that's true, I would of thought Aouar is much more like Thiago than Ndombele, I do like the look of him.
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Yeah he definitely is, I wasn't meaning to compare Ndombele and Thiago stylistically. Either of them would be good signings imo (I'd actually slightly prefer Aouar as well), depending on what kind of #6 we're planning to replace Matic with. Aouar makes more sense if we're getting a destroyer while Ndombele would better compliment a deep-lying playmaker.
 
I just want a mobile midfielder with finesse and good movement. One that moves the ball really fast and takes responsibility in possession.
 

I would say Pellegrini is a lot like Pogba role-wise, and for his supposed release clause, I think he would be a very option/comp for Herrera and Pogba. We could definitely do with more threat from midfield.
 
I can see Lindelof turning into a world class defensive midfielder in the future. If we pushed the boat out in the summer and bought De Legt and Skinnar, we could play Lindelof defensive midfielder, he has the pace, power, passing range and intelligence to play the role. Ideal long term replacement for matic.
 
https://johncarrafiell.blog/2019/02...helseas-midfield-improving-chelsea-part-four/
It's an article written by a Chelsea fan but I thought it was an interesting read as it brings up severals top prospects around Europe and has a lot of in-depth statistical analysis.

Havertz and Aouar stand out strongly but they'd be more costy than the others names on the list, I for one feel Draxler could be a good addition, I'm really impressed by how he managed to adapt to every new system and position that he's been asked to play over the past years at PSG. Coming from Wolfsburg where he was more of a central piece It's surprising he managed to become such a system player, usually stars from lower clubs flop very hard when they're forced to play out of position at a bigger one.
 
I think we need to sign cover for Matic at DM but at the same time we need someone who can play in Herreras role and Pogbas role. Once injury to Pogba and our seasons over as he is our only threat from midfield. Ndombele is very loose in his dribbling from midfield and very careless at times, I would prefer us go for someone more composed. Pellegrini would be a great fit at CM he can play Herreras and Pogbas role. We recently scouted Samassekou for the DM role. If he is available for cheap we should buy him so we can focus on major signings in other areas.
 
Mylock said:
I can see Lindelof turning into a world class defensive midfielder in the future. If we pushed the boat out in the summer and bought De Legt and Skinnar, we could play Lindelof defensive midfielder, he has the pace, power, passing range and intelligence to play the role. Ideal long term replacement for matic.
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Where is the white text?
 
I think we should sign Ruben Neves and then rotate Matic, Herrera and Neves according to our opponent. He would have made a huge difference against psg. Eventually he can take over matic place in the side.
 
Neves or Verratti for the DM/holding role and no one else for our midfield. They will cost a shit load but will definitely worth it.
 
Neves/ Ndombele and Joao Felix should be our targets for midfield.

Even though McTominay did an okay job of filling in for Matic today but he can't be a solution for the ageing Matic. Neves whose only 21 is a good replacement for Matic while Mctominay being his backup.

Joao Felix has got to be a backup for Pogba. The guy is phenomenal for 19... Neves at 60m and Felix at 40m would be a 100m well spent. Pereira can be Herrera's backup when needed.
 
If people want to spend 60m on Neves I'll much rather try our luck with 80m for Kante. Would that be enough to lure him away from Chelsea if they persist with the locomotive as manager and he want something different?
 
We need to add numbers to the midfield, someone to cover matic, and replace him over time, Declan Rice is a good shout, Neves too, we also need a rotation player for Herrera, Andreas pereira is not good enough.

Ndombele would be great, although Rabiot is on a free.
 
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reports we've contacted Bruno Fernandes agent. Wouldn't mind him as a Pogba back up. He's got a tonk on him, loves a goal from distance.

Edit: good tifo video on him
 
Neves is my 2019 summer muppet buy. He could be our Alonso.
 
MikeKing said:
If people want to spend 60m on Neves I'll much rather try our luck with 80m for Kante. Would that be enough to lure him away from Chelsea if they persist with the locomotive as manager and he want something different?
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Unless Kante wants out, I really find it hard them selling Kante nevermind to us
 
Ekeke said:
And he plays as a forward with none of his league games this season being in midfield. Just striker and on the left of the front 3
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Superb talent though.

Trizy said:
Neves is my 2019 summer muppet buy. He could be our Alonso.
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Never distribution is great, but how is his defensive awareness and break up ability?
 
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There's been a lot of debate on here about Ander in the holding role, my view has been that Ole doesn't want to use him there as it doesn't play to his strengths and yesterday confirmed that for me when he chose to play McTominay there instead, and McTominay himself isn't actually a DM by trade. Just reinforces to me that the first type of CM wee need is another proper holder.

This Bruno Fernandes guy just has a bunch of comps of him shooting, there's not much there with regards to dribbling or creative passing, reminds me of the type of player that ends up at Everton or Leicester.
 
Devil may care said:
There's been a lot of debate on here about Ander in the holding role, my view has been that Ole doesn't want to use him there as it doesn't play to his strengths and yesterday confirmed that for me when he chose to play McTominay there instead, and McTominay himself isn't actually a DM by trade. Just reinforces to me that the first type of CM wee need is another proper holder.

This Bruno Fernandes guy just has a bunch of comps of him shooting, there's not much there with regards to dribbling or creative passing, reminds me of the type of player that ends up at Everton or Leicester.
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The Tifo video I posted highlights both of those points on Fernandes.

Tournament Apps Mins Goals Assists SpG KeyP Drb Fouled Off Disp UnsTch Rating
Liga NOS 21 1864 11 7 3.2 2.9 1 2.5 0.1 1.8 2.1 7.74
UEFA Europa 8 703 3 1 2 2 0.8 1.5 0.1 1.6 1.3 7.28

He put up similar stats in Serie A when he was at Sampdoria. He's definitely more than just shooting.

His stats are actually extremely similar to Pogba's.
 
Devil may care said:
There's been a lot of debate on here about Ander in the holding role, my view has been that Ole doesn't want to use him there as it doesn't play to his strengths and yesterday confirmed that for me when he chose to play McTominay there instead, and McTominay himself isn't actually a DM by trade. Just reinforces to me that the first type of CM wee need is another proper holder.
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Based on McTominays strengths he should be a CDM, and i think this is where he will be used. He is consistent, seldom does anything with a high risk when playing, can pass sufficiently etc. What you would need in a holding midfielder as a minimum.

Bruno F. would be as an additional midfielder (cover/replacement) for Herrera and Pogba. He is far more than just shooting.

If we are going for replacements for Matic i would say that Ibrahim Sangare would have been ideal, but he got a serious injury.. So might want to wait until he has recovered.
Rodrigo is the replacement if £££ was not a factor.
Neves would fit if we were more possessionbased. To be honest i can't decide wheter i think Neves is really good or overrated/hyped by the media.
If we are going for a cheap English option i would say that Kalvin Phillips would fit and able to perform. If Leeds does not get promoted i'm certain he will be bought by a PL team.
 
Neves would be the best option. He seems like an intelligent player who can learn the role. He doesnt need to be physical just good at moving the ball and intercepting. We should focus on him as he can play DM and cover RCM for Herrera. If Neves is moved back to DM we need someone with energy at RCM but ability on the ball. Maybe Pellegrini. The fact is by the time we get a new DM or even a CM, Raiola will be offering Pogba moves away from the club and we will need to replace another CM. We need to improve the squad and be challenging for titles if we want to keep players like De Gea and Pogba.
 
Lash said:
The Tifo video I posted highlights both of those points on Fernandes.

Tournament Apps Mins Goals Assists SpG KeyP Drb Fouled Off Disp UnsTch Rating
Liga NOS 21 1864 11 7 3.2 2.9 1 2.5 0.1 1.8 2.1 7.74
UEFA Europa 8 703 3 1 2 2 0.8 1.5 0.1 1.6 1.3 7.28

He put up similar stats in Serie A when he was at Sampdoria. He's definitely more than just shooting.

His stats are actually extremely similar to Pogba's.
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Are there any videos with footage of this though? it's just all the ones I found were just full of long range shooting

Fosu-Mens said:
Based on McTominays strengths he should be a CDM, and i think this is where he will be used. He is consistent, seldom does anything with a high risk when playing, can pass sufficiently etc. What you would need in a holding midfielder as a minimum.

Bruno F. would be as an additional midfielder (cover/replacement) for Herrera and Pogba. He is far more than just shooting.

If we are going for replacements for Matic i would say that Ibrahim Sangare would have been ideal, but he got a serious injury.. So might want to wait until he has recovered.
Rodrigo is the replacement if £££ was not a factor.
Neves would fit if we were more possessionbased. To be honest i can't decide wheter i think Neves is really good or overrated/hyped by the media.
If we are going for a cheap English option i would say that Kalvin Phillips would fit and able to perform. If Leeds does not get promoted i'm certain he will be bought by a PL team.
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I'd bare minimum at best though mate, needs a lot of work positionally and if your holder is going to be as limited on the ball as him then you need two #8's ahead that are going to offer you a lot on it, I also think mobility and agility are a bit suspect with McTominay, but my main point is I think all of the buying strategies that feature Ander as DM cover need to end as Ole has shown he'll go to every other option before he takes Ander out of the shuttling box to box role.

So Bruno Fernandes is another budget multi-cover option like Pellegrini?

Rodri looks like the best young DM in the game right now, and would allow for two more progressive #8's ahead of him, but given the current make-up of our squad I think Neves is the best fit, his defensive stats are pretty similar to Matic's. One other interesting option is Tonali, if we think Matic can play most of the season and Tonali can be blooded in and adapt over the next season with an eye on transitioning to starter the season after.
 
Fabian Ruiz or Allan would be excellent signings, but I am not sure what kind of chance we have with Napoli.
 
Devil may care said:
Are there any videos with footage of this though? it's just all the ones I found were just full of long range shooting



I'd bare minimum at best though mate, needs a lot of work positionally and if your holder is going to be as limited on the ball as him then you need two #8's ahead that are going to offer you a lot on it, I also think mobility and agility are a bit suspect with McTominay, but my main point is I think all of the buying strategies that feature Ander as DM cover need to end as Ole has shown he'll go to every other option before he takes Ander out of the shuttling box to box role.

So Bruno Fernandes is another budget multi-cover option like Pellegrini?

Rodri looks like the best young DM in the game right now, and would allow for two more progressive #8's ahead of him, but given the current make-up of our squad I think Neves is the best fit, his defensive stats are pretty similar to Matic's. One other interesting option is Tonali, if we think Matic can play most of the season and Tonali can be blooded in and adapt over the next season with an eye on transitioning to starter the season after.
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Bruno Fernandes:
If you can shoot like him, then you can pass and cross. His left foot is good despite being the weaker one.
He seems to have a relatively free role for Sporting CP, so difficult to evalutate how disiplined and good he is when not on the ball. High energy, "Gung-ho" player. If you are the better team and in possession he seems to be an asset, but if not on the ball then he would be similar to Sanchez --> pressing alone (again maybe influenced that he seems to have a free role). He certainly got the abilities with the ball, but has a high risk/energy playing style. Have not seen much of him and would be interesting to get opinions from people who have seen him play more when not on the ball or when he is not operating in the final third.

Rodri is Busquets reincarnated and his clause is not much more than what Neves would cost. I would actually not be against Partey either. Could be used as a defensive destroyer. I think our disagreement with the midfield is that you want a holding CDM in the mould of Neves able to run the game like Scholes and Carrick did. I want balanced players, able to perform multiple roles as a midfielder. Which is the way i think the developement in football is going, if you are not a special world class player in one specific role.

Tonali reminds me of Gomes. Same abilities on the ball. Certainly a promising player, but would create an unbalanced team with him and Pogba.
 
bucky said:
Fabian Ruiz or Allan would be excellent signings, but I am not sure what kind of chance we have with Napoli.
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I rate Allan as well but wouldn't you say he was more in Herrera's mold than a holding midfielder?
 
Fosu-Mens said:
Bruno Fernandes:
If you can shoot like him, then you can pass and cross. His left foot is good despite being the weaker one.
He seems to have a relatively free role for Sporting CP, so difficult to evalutate how disiplined and good he is when not on the ball. High energy, "Gung-ho" player. If you are the better team and in possession he seems to be an asset, but if not on the ball then he would be similar to Sanchez --> pressing alone (again maybe influenced that he seems to have a free role). He certainly got the abilities with the ball, but has a high risk/energy playing style. Have not seen much of him and would be interesting to get opinions from people who have seen him play more when not on the ball or when he is not operating in the final third.

Rodri is Busquets reincarnated and his clause is not much more than what Neves would cost. I would actually not be against Partey either. Could be used as a defensive destroyer. I think our disagreement with the midfield is that you want a holding CDM in the mould of Neves able to run the game like Scholes and Carrick did. I want balanced players, able to perform multiple roles as a midfielder. Which is the way i think the developement in football is going, if you are not a special world class player in one specific role.

Tonali reminds me of Gomes. Same abilities on the ball. Certainly a promising player, but would create an unbalanced team with him and Pogba.
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According to the stats of he Tifo Football channel he seems to put in a really good shift defensively with multiple tackles per game on average
 
Devil may care said:
I rate Allan as well but wouldn't you say he was more in Herrera's mold than a holding midfielder?
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Well, you and I have different opinions on playing Herrera as a #6. I'd hope to see us play Allan or Fabian as the #8.
 
bucky said:
Well, you and I have different opinions on playing Herrera as a #6. I'd hope to see us play Allan or Fabian as the #8.
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It's not so much that we disagree, although I do think it takes away his best asset, I just think the main thing is Ole has no intention of playing him in that role, even yesterday with Matic out he played an inexperienced player their instead.
 
Devil may care said:
It's not so much that we disagree, although I do think it takes away his best asset, I just think the main thing is Ole has no intention of playing him in that role, even yesterday with Matic out he played an inexperienced player their instead.
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Which just could have been because McTominay is more comfortable in that role than in Herrera's. Or Ole felt that we really needed what Herrera offers in that role compared to what McTominay would offer in the aggressive #8 role.
 
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