The Search for a Midfielder

Nicolo Barella

Kind of think with the amount were linked to this guy he should have his own thread now, I left him out of my Serie A midfielders yesterday but seems the media’s gone mad on him to United this morning

Having a look through the articles and reading up on the guy, he sounds very similar to the two Silvas at Man City, in that he’s diminutive in stature but quite tenacious and works his arse off to get on the ball, lots of harrying, winning the ball then driving it forward at pace. In my opinion this is exactly what we need if we’re to turn the spot Herrera currently possesses into a more attacking dimension.

“One big advantage that Barella brings to the plate is his box to box nature and his engine, which can help him be equally active in either of the boxes to do a job for the side. It is his tenacity and hunger to always be on the ball and be at the center of things that makes him so.

Another thing that tenacity makes him do is recover balls in the heart of the park, despite a frame that isn’t too imposing- 5 foot 7 inches tall and weighing only 68 kilograms. This season, the Italian has won 2.9 tackles per game, making 1.4 interceptions per game too. He isn’t a typical defensive midfielder who sits in front of the back four and shields the defense, but likes to bomb forward with purpose very often.

Despite being a rather diminutive midfielder, Barella uses his body well to retain the ball and keep it away from the opposition players. Not just that, but the threat that this 20-year-old carries on the break when carrying the ball forward is substantial. This season, he has completed 1.4 dribbles per game and last season, he made 1 per game.”
 
Rocknrolla69er said:
Interestingly could you remind us how many united appearances Fred has made?

As I say very Mourinhoesque, guess your an avid watcher of the russian league too hats off to you
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Fred has played 845 minutes for United according to transfermarkt. While playing under OGS is different than playing under Mourinho, a players "abilites" remains more or less the same over a short period of time. A players performance can however be very different based on which "style" the player is in --> Lindelof's abilites are better suited to the way we are playing now compared to how we played under Mourinho. His performance on the pitch have been better compared to under JM, but his abilites should be more or less the same. And are we not discussing Fred's abilites?

Fred played for Shakhtar Donetsk. Are you from South Ossetia? As far as i know they are the only "state" that recognizes Donetsk People's Republic as a sovereign state, and thus not part of Ukraine and with the ongoing war where Russia are trying to implent Donetsk Oblast as a part of Russia. In the future Shakhtar might be forced to play in the Russian league, but as of now they play in the Ukrainian league.
 
Probably not that fashionable but i like Doucoure at Watford. Breaks up play nicely but can drive forward too.
 
Fosu-Mens said:
Fred has played 845 minutes for United according to transfermarkt. While playing under OGS is different than playing under Mourinho, a players "abilites" remains more or less the same over a short period of time. A players performance can however be very different based on which "style" the player is in --> Lindelof's abilites are better suited to the way we are playing now compared to how we played under Mourinho. His performance on the pitch have been better compared to under JM, but his abilites should be more or less the same. And are we not discussing Fred's abilites?

Fred played for Shakhtar Donetsk. Are you from South Ossetia? As far as i know they are the only "state" that recognizes Donetsk People's Republic as a sovereign state, and thus not part of Ukraine and with the ongoing war where Russia are trying to implent Donetsk Oblast as a part of Russia. In the future Shakhtar might be forced to play in the Russian league, but as of now they play in the Ukrainian league.
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Ahhhh the old waffling crap tactic in the hope it makes you seem superior than others, if it floats your boat almighty one il bid you goodbye

Il give you the mixup between the leagues but my point stands regardless
 
Using Lindelof as a barometer to suggest Fred's loose control and lack of positional awareness will improve is faulty, just like it was when people argued Gibson and Cleverley would develop and progress just because Fletcher did. It's not impossible that Fred finds a way to become useful but I wasn't impressed with him in the CL games I saw and he's shown very little at United to suggest there's much there bar the odd pass now and then.
 
Rocknrolla69er said:
Ahhhh the old waffling crap tactic in the hope it makes you seem superior than others, if it floats your boat almighty one il bid you goodbye

Il give you the mixup between the leagues but my point stands regardless
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We can both continue to have our subjective(objective?) opinions regarding Freds abilites. I hope you are right and i'm wrong, but very much doubt this.
 
With Groot on his way to China, and Matic nearly 200 years old, we will spend big in midfield.

Give us some Ndombele, Woody :drool:
 
Given that Matic and Herrera needs replacing within the next two seasons, and we have a lack of quality in midfield beside these two and Pogba, we should sign two promising midfielders this summer.

Barrela is already linked. Similar intensity to Herrera, but better going forward. Should signed him if the rumored price of £45m is correct.
As a replacement/cover for Matic we should be all in for Zaniolo. While he is currently playing as an attacking midfielder for Roma, he got the physicality to be efficient in a similar role Matic got in our team. He can also play as a RW.
 
Good to see Ole come out and back Fred ,
Fosu-Mens said:
Given that Matic and Herrera needs replacing within the next two seasons, and we have a lack of quality in midfield beside these two and Pogba, we should sign two promising midfielders this summer.

Barrela is already linked. Similar intensity to Herrera, but better going forward. Should signed him if the rumored price of £45m is correct.
As a replacement/cover for Matic we should be all in for Zaniolo. While he is currently playing as an attacking midfielder for Roma, he got the physicality to be efficient in a similar role Matic got in our team. He can also play as a RW.
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Agree Barrela would be a solid signing, great workrate would compliment Pogba
 
Fosu-Mens said:
Given that Matic and Herrera needs replacing within the next two seasons, and we have a lack of quality in midfield beside these two and Pogba, we should sign two promising midfielders this summer.

Barrela is already linked. Similar intensity to Herrera, but better going forward. Should signed him if the rumored price of £45m is correct.
As a replacement/cover for Matic we should be all in for Zaniolo. While he is currently playing as an attacking midfielder for Roma, he got the physicality to be efficient in a similar role Matic got in our team. He can also play as a RW.
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Sounds about right considering our transfer strategy of late, let's buy an AM/RW to replace Matic because he's tall!
 
Yea we need at least one with Fellaini going and Andreas unlikely to start again. Could maybe play Mata in MF as well if we got stuck.
 
Hope Ole addresses that in the end of the season. With Fellaini going and Fred and Perrera not good enough to be reliable then we do need couple of good signings in this area.

But hope Ole ask for these additions and not try to make him self nice and don't want spend or so, and try to improve the likes of Perrera, we really need a ready player who can come and make an instant impact.
 
Seven Seas Sardines said:
Sounds about right considering our transfer strategy of late, let's buy an AM/RW to replace Matic because he's tall!
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One of the main issues for many CDMs is that they are somewhat limitied when on the ball in regards to passing, technique and in general contribution when teh team is in possession. Kante, Casemiro, Gueye, Ndidi are all examples of this. Having midfielders able to contribute in all elements of the game when needed would be beneficial. Having a CDM that can be an asset when attacking instead of only playing short, safe and simple passes would make ones team more flexible when attacking. More players in your team would be seen as an attacking threat, making it harder to defend against and making your team more dangerous. The same arguement can be said about having players able to play in multiple positions. In "Modern" football strikers should not only score goals, centrebacks should be a competent passer, fullbacks should be able to play like a winger. The game developes towards players becoming more balanced in their abilites. Meaning that when you attack, most players are able and should contribute and the same can be said when you are defending.

Frenkie De Jong is one example of such a player, able to do the job in all areas on the pitch. Finding another player like him is not easy, and it easier to develope the defensive abilities in an attacking player like Zaniolo compared defensive players like Gueye or Casemiro becoming better when in attack. Zaniolo seems to be the ideal blueprint for another player like De Jong. If Zaniolo is not able to become such a player, then you have a player able to play RW and being a backup for Pogba. Little risky, but to me the potential upside is huge.
 
Probably should have kept Daley Blind. He could slot in where Matic is now. Not as good defensively better offensively.
 
The thing is as well that we would probably be looking for MFs who dont mind sitting on the bench and starting one in four. We have a settled MF three of Matic, Pogba and Herrera. Maybe Herrera is the weak link, although i think he is a vital part of the system because he works his socks off (I think we would have won last night if he was playing).

We would have to be looking at MFs who are good enough not to feck up when they do play, but would have to settle for mainly coming on in games. Unless someone gets injured.
 
Fosu-Mens said:
One of the main issues for many CDMs is that they are somewhat limitied when on the ball in regards to passing, technique and in general contribution when teh team is in possession. Kante, Casemiro, Gueye, Ndidi are all examples of this. Having midfielders able to contribute in all elements of the game when needed would be beneficial. Having a CDM that can be an asset when attacking instead of only playing short, safe and simple passes would make ones team more flexible when attacking. More players in your team would be seen as an attacking threat, making it harder to defend against and making your team more dangerous. The same arguement can be said about having players able to play in multiple positions. In "Modern" football strikers should not only score goals, centrebacks should be a competent passer, fullbacks should be able to play like a winger. The game developes towards players becoming more balanced in their abilites. Meaning that when you attack, most players are able and should contribute and the same can be said when you are defending.

Frenkie De Jong is one example of such a player, able to do the job in all areas on the pitch. Finding another player like him is not easy, and it easier to develope the defensive abilities in an attacking player like Zaniolo compared defensive players like Gueye or Casemiro becoming better when in attack. Zaniolo seems to be the ideal blueprint for another player like De Jong. If Zaniolo is not able to become such a player, then you have a player able to play RW and being a backup for Pogba. Little risky, but to me the potential upside is huge.
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Roma would've needed Zaniolo as DM today losing 7-1 for probably the first time since OT! :lol:
 
Fosu-Mens said:
As a replacement/cover for Matic we should be all in for Zaniolo. While he is currently playing as an attacking midfielder for Roma, he got the physicality to be efficient in a similar role Matic got in our team. He can also play as a RW.
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Seven Seas Sardines said:
Roma would've needed Zaniolo as DM today losing 7-1 for probably the first time since OT! :lol:
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They benched Pellegrini, thats what happened. He is a monster both ways, and is what I consider the optimal player to go for.

1. He has a summer release clause of £32m.
2. Only 22 years old, with 106 senior apps + 9 caps for Italy.
3. He pass the eyetest, youtubetest and stats.
 
Rocknrolla69er said:
Nicolo Barella

Kind of think with the amount were linked to this guy he should have his own thread now, I left him out of my Serie A midfielders yesterday but seems the media’s gone mad on him to United this morning

Having a look through the articles and reading up on the guy, he sounds very similar to the two Silvas at Man City, in that he’s diminutive in stature but quite tenacious and works his arse off to get on the ball, lots of harrying, winning the ball then driving it forward at pace. In my opinion this is exactly what we need if we’re to turn the spot Herrera currently possesses into a more attacking dimension.

“One big advantage that Barella brings to the plate is his box to box nature and his engine, which can help him be equally active in either of the boxes to do a job for the side. It is his tenacity and hunger to always be on the ball and be at the center of things that makes him so.

Another thing that tenacity makes him do is recover balls in the heart of the park, despite a frame that isn’t too imposing- 5 foot 7 inches tall and weighing only 68 kilograms. This season, the Italian has won 2.9 tackles per game, making 1.4 interceptions per game too. He isn’t a typical defensive midfielder who sits in front of the back four and shields the defense, but likes to bomb forward with purpose very often.

Despite being a rather diminutive midfielder, Barella uses his body well to retain the ball and keep it away from the opposition players. Not just that, but the threat that this 20-year-old carries on the break when carrying the ball forward is substantial. This season, he has completed 1.4 dribbles per game and last season, he made 1 per game.”
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Very similar to James Madison at Leicester.
 
I think we missed out when Tielemans left Anderlecht and I think we are missing out again as he signs on loan for Leicester.
 
Were absolutely fecked imo. Matic, Herrera and Pogba cant play every game and the back up are complete shite.

Maybe Fred can do somehing.
 
Looking at this from the perspective of Ole staying on as manager I expect us to continue with 4-3-3/4-4-2 diamond as our formations so we need 6 CM's for the 3 CM spots. Now Fellaini has gone and I think Pereira will go in the summer leaving us with 4 realistically as surely McTominay will go out on loan and Garner is too young so maybe he'll go on loan as well.

I don't actually think it means 2 CM's coming in though as Fred will be here next season to compete with Herrera and maybe cover Pogba and I think Angel Gomes might get the chance to cover Pogba and take Andreas spot given it's the role in the 3 that is based on creativity and less defensive work.

HM - Neves/Matic
RCM - Herrera/Fred
LCM - Pogba/Gomes
 
SteveW said:
Were absolutely fecked imo. Matic, Herrera and Pogba cant play every game and the back up are complete shite.

Maybe Fred can do somehing.
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We're not 'absolutely fecked'. No team has backup CMs anywhere near as good as the starting ones. Fred, Mctominay and possibly Mata as backups is perfectly fine. We could also change it up when needed and play two in the middle with Lingard/Mata as a 10.

The top 4 have nothing special in terms of depth in CM either.
 
LeftyBlaster said:
Sign Ndidi and that Brooks fella from Bournemouth.
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Nah.

For me, we need more passers in midfield, more footballers capable of dictating the ebb and flow of a game.

We've got Pogba who is an attacking midfielder but in proper central midfield, we lack passing quality. Herrera is all about energy, intelligence and ball control. His passing is pretty standard and adequate. Matic is a destroyer/pure defensive midfielder these days and his contribution going forward tends to be to give to someone more incisive with their passing. Fred, if he can actually get to grips with the PL, seems to have driving runs, tenacity and energy as his strengths.

I actually think we've got one of the best midfields in the EPL however there is a distinct lack of playmaking/controlling ability there. We need a midfielder or two like Neves who are genuinely gifted in their passing ability to compliment the graft and tenacity that we already have.
 
I think we need to prioritize a RB and RW search. Then a CB to pair with Lindelof.

Then DCM to rotate with Matic.

Herrera rotates with Fred.

Lingard and Mata rotates with Pogba.

So only DCM for me here.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
Nah.

For me, we need more passers in midfield, more footballers capable of dictating the ebb and flow of a game.

We've got Pogba who is an attacking midfielder but in proper central midfield, we lack passing quality. Herrera is all about energy, intelligence and ball control. His passing is pretty standard and adequate. Matic is a destroyer/pure defensive midfielder these days and his contribution going forward tends to be to give to someone more incisive with their passing. Fred, if he can actually get to grips with the PL, seems to have driving runs, tenacity and energy as his strengths.

I actually think we've got one of the best midfields in the EPL however there is a distinct lack of playmaking/controlling ability there. We need a midfielder or two like Neves who are genuinely gifted in their passing ability to compliment the graft and tenacity that we already have.
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Ndidi is like Kante. A modern defensive midfielder compared to the classic Matic type. We'd use him to anchor the midfield and pair his energy with Herrera. I'd really like him here. Fred has the energy and the runs but has shown a worrying lack of danger sense.
Also, I am curious as to who you think is an incisive passer in central mid we could bring in.
 
littleman said:
I think we need to prioritize a RB and RW search. Then a CB to pair with Lindelof.

Then DCM to rotate with Matic.

Herrera rotates with Fred.

Lingard and Mata rotates with Pogba.

So only DCM for me here.
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This is it.
We only need the DM. DLP more specifically. Matic is posible to decline at any moment. And swap Mata for Gomes.

If Fred comes good and we sign the DM that will be like two new signings- more than enough.
 
Neves with Carricks guidance could become a monster. Ndidi also is a great shout, he's been the best DM in the league this year. Don't forget how young these players are, Neves 21 and Ndidi 22, either would be great long term signings and be great in a midfield 3 with Herrera and Pogba.
 
I'd prioritise a new starting DM, say Ruben Neves. After that I would go for two new wingers and get rid of Mata, Sanchez and Pereira, assuming none of them comes good during the rest of the season.

So if we're signing something like Neves, Zaha, Sancho we could have

Herrera/Fred Neves/Matic Pogba/Lingard

In midfield, where Lingard comes in for Pogba whew he needs a rest. I think this is a better positon for him then RW.

Up front we'll only use Lingard as a winger in the thougher games, and we'll have rotation/competition between Martial, Zaha and Sancho behind Rashford and Lukaku. Hopefully Greenwood can be ready to step in when Lukaku gets tired of being second chioce.
 
Devil may care said:
HM - Neves/Matic
RCM - Herrera/Fred
LCM - Pogba/Gomes
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Don't think Gomes should be Pogba's backup. We should be trying to turn Gomes into Pogba's partner, with the 3rd midfielder being the defensive backbone to the midfield. We currently lack a midfielder who can run things through his passing. Someone who can dominate a midfield by being so comfortable in possession. This is what Modric at his best provided. This is what Xavi and Scholes provided.
amolbhatia50k said:
Nah.

For me, we need more passers in midfield, more footballers capable of dictating the ebb and flow of a game.

We've got Pogba who is an attacking midfielder but in proper central midfield, we lack passing quality. Herrera is all about energy, intelligence and ball control. His passing is pretty standard and adequate. Matic is a destroyer/pure defensive midfielder these days and his contribution going forward tends to be to give to someone more incisive with their passing. Fred, if he can actually get to grips with the PL, seems to have driving runs, tenacity and energy as his strengths.

I actually think we've got one of the best midfields in the EPL however there is a distinct lack of playmaking/controlling ability there. We need a midfielder or two like Neves who are genuinely gifted in their passing ability to compliment the graft and tenacity that we already have.
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I agree with you. Our mainstay in midfield is Pogba. He is currently our spear in midfield as he's just a force in attack. He's not a player who is going to be disciplined enough to be the constant passing presence in midfield. He's a great passer, so he will contribute with distribution, but will go forward to affect the game higher up the pitch. He's also not some energetic player, and saves that energy for brief moments to dribble, get on the end of a pass in the final 3rd, or to make a tackle.

We essentially need his two partners in midfield to give energy, to be the main source of distribution and passing option, and someone who can shield the back 4. It doesn't matter in what way we accomplish it, so long as the midfield as a whole accomplishes it. Juve achieved this through Vidal and Pirlo. Vidal was the all action midfielder who provided energy in attack and defense. This is similar to what Herrera is currently doing for us, except he obviously did it at a world class level. Pirlo provided play making from a deeper position and helped shield the back four by always being the deepest in position.

The current problem with our midfield is that we don't have someone who can be that player you trust to keep possession and also be a constant source of distribution.

“Angel has got the ability to play pretty much anywhere. He's a footballer so everyone automatically thinks he's an attacker but we like him in the pivot role to set up play and get the ball moving. He keeps possession and, in European football, keeping the ball is massive. If you don't keep possession in the middle of the park, it's going to be a struggle.
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https://www.manutd.com/en/news/detail/nicky-butt-has-high-expectations-for-man-utd-under-19s

I agree with Butt. We should be trying to develop Gomes into that role. His first touch is amazing. The ball sticks to his feet. Gomes has the ability to break lines of defense, has vision, can dribble, can create good separation for himself to get off passes, and will one touch pass when in deeper positions. At youth level, Gomes is our best midfield talent at discouraging the opponents from pressing because of his ability that I've just described. He tends to play further up the pitch when he's not asked to do this role. Him being an attacker for the longest time makes people automatically think of him as that, but a closer look at what he provides makes him perfect for this job.

City and Liverpool are two high pressing sides, so it always shows just how vulnerable we are in possession whenever we finally play them in a match. We should be looking to counter that by getting midfielders who can best them in possession.
 
LeftyBlaster said:
Ndidi is like Kante. A modern defensive midfielder compared to the classic Matic type. We'd use him to anchor the midfield and pair his energy with Herrera. I'd really like him here. Fred has the energy and the runs but has shown a worrying lack of danger sense.
Also, I am curious as to who you think is an incisive passer in central mid we could bring in.
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I don't believe that's what we need - modern or not. There's not enough passing quality between Herrera and Ndidi/Matic for me.

On the last bit I'm not the most knowledgeable on the global pool of talent I'm afraid. But Neves certainly looks like somebody who could be moulded into a player who can control games and give that crispness to the passing.
 
I don't think we're that screwed in midfield. We just need to make Fred play well. Herrera can cover for Matic too.

Rather spend some money on a right-wing and in defence.
 
ROFLUTION said:
I don't think we're that screwed in midfield. We just need to make Fred play well. Herrera can cover for Matic too.

Rather spend some money on a right-wing and in defence.
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Just needing Fred to play well is not that simple.
Its like saying we just need Sanchez to play well, so don't need another RM.
 
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