The Road Trip Draft R1: MJJ vs Sjor Bepo

Who will win the match based on players at their peaks?

  • Total voters
    20
  • Poll closed .
@Don Alfredo there will always be someone in number 10 role, fluidity is the key of my side so one of Kopa/Rivelino/Eusebio will always operate in the Zola zone or number 10 zone.
As for the other thing, there is only one winner here with regarding possession, team with Xavi in it.
 
Provisionally placed a vote for Sjor here. Not really convinced that MJJ's midfield is balanced. Has 3 flair players but lacks someone to do the ball winning and play the anchor. Scholes/Falcao esp has lots of overlaps and could replace one with a b2b workhorse.

Kopa/Eusebio is lovely, as is Monti/Xavi/Rivellino. Like Scirea/Stam more than Ruggeri/Vierchowod.
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
Provisionally placed a vote for Sjor here. Not really convinced that MJJ's midfield is balanced. Has 3 flair players but lacks someone to do the ball winning and play the anchor. Scholes/Falcao esp has lots of overlaps and could replace one with a b2b workhorse.

Kopa/Eusebio is lovely, as is Monti/Xavi/Rivellino. Like Scirea/Stam more than Ruggeri/Vierchowod.
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How is andrade not a) a workhouse and b) a ball winner?
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
Because he was famous for his attacking contribution from a halfback position? He wasn't a liability defensively, but using him as a workhorse ball winner is not doing him justice.
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Andrae is perfectly suited to the role I have for him here while providing steel, defensive nous and work-rate to the midfield.

antohan said:
People were taken aback by the fluid passing, the ingenuity, the attacking flair... At the centre of it all was José Leandro Andrade, the right halfback. Halfbacks were usually defensive, some attacking, but very few combined both. Andrade was the one organising the defensive line, but also bringing the ball out of defence and acting, effectively, as a deep-lying playmaker.

No one got anywhere near him, or else they would risk embarrassment. It was his dribbling and passing range which made him the Black Marvel, but also the way he run the game at a time when the pitch was split into halves and connecting them two was a long ball. Andrade would keep the ball at feet and progress, attacking the space until some poor sod broke the line and came to stop him, providing the gap for a 5 vs. 4 or an opportunity to dribble through and turn that into 5 vs. 3. Revolutionary stuff, ridiculous as it may now sound.

Don't get me wrong, his defensive duties were of significant importance so in a tight game those would be prioritised. You certainly wouldn't find him running the length of the pitch then. Just to highlight his defensive nous I offer the following:

  • 1924 final, against a free-scoring Switzerland. Their star player, Abegglen was the tournament top scorer so far. He operated at inside left, Andrade shut him out: 3-0.

  • 1928 final, against eternal rivals Argentina. Top scorer of the tournament Tarasconi, inside left, shut out. 1-1 and 2-1 (no ET or penos then), both Argentine goals came from the other flank.

  • 1930 final, again against Argentina, who had the tournos top scorer again (a CF though). Andrade was man of the match keeping Uruguay in the game while still 2-1 down and at 2-2. Both goals scored from the left flank again.
He was immense and had the attributes to do a job either on the right of a DM pair or at fullback.

But back to the story... it was Andrade's success and acclaim at the Paris Olympics that finally forced the Brazilian Federation's hand. Fortunate for us spectators, unfortunate for every side they have pissed on since!
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Tough to separate.

I don't really rate Monti that high(due to the era), but the rest of @Šjor Bepo team :drool:

Lot to like about @MJJ team as well, Zanetti and Garrincha is probably the best right flank pairing of all time.
 
Enigma_87 said:
Tough to separate.

I don't really rate Monti that high(due to the era), but the rest of @Šjor Bepo team :drool:

Lot to like about @MJJ team as well, Zanetti and Garrincha is probably the best right flank pairing of all time.
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Cheers Enigma, Zanetti in particular would have a big impact on the match by creating overloads on sjor's left hand side. Henry won't help out a lot defensively and garrincha + zanetti vs cole will be a bloodbath.
 
Not sure how much support can Zanetti give to Garrincha(not that he needed it) because Henry is one of the rare ones that i saw ripped Zanetti apart and that was Zanetti supported with 3 defenders behind him(in the game, not in this action obviously).

 
Šjor Bepo said:
Not sure how much support can Zanetti give to Garrincha(not that he needed it) because Henry is one of the rare ones that i saw ripped Zanetti apart and that was Zanetti supported with 3 defenders behind him(in the game, not in this action obviously).

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Henry and Zanetti faced each other nine times, Henry only scored twice(only in the match you have linked above).

If anything Zanetti had a good handle on Henry.
 
Really like both teams and great drafting.

Love MJJ midfield and bringing Scholes in round 11 was one of the best moves in the whole draft imo. Can see him doing great at the base with Andrade providing cover and Falcao being a bit more adventurous. Seems very balanced and well suited to bring the best out of them while also providing Dzajic and Garrincha with plenty of service and chances to run at that defense.
The problem being that Sjor defense is also brilliant and when I see people talking about anyone, even Dzajic or Garrincha, "destroying" Lahm or Cole it's a bit silly. I maybe see a bigger issue with Kocsis on the end of their crosses, because you can reduce their influence in terms of running rings around you, but it's hard to stop their delivery and no doubt they will look to find Kocsis many times.

Sjor has a great team all around. That spine of Scirea, Xavi, Eusebio, Henry with the addition of Lahm on the side is just lovely. Wasn't the biggest fan of Cole at first considering other players, but even he looks like a very good choice considering his defensive credentials will be tested and I rate him a lot in that sense.

Really hard to split altogether tbh.
 
MJJ said:
Henry and Zanetti faced each other nine times, Henry only scored twice(only in the match you have linked above).

If anything Zanetti had a good handle on Henry.
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Could be wrong but while both at their peak(Arsenal Henry) they only faced each other twice and that was twice in that season.
 
mind you, i fecking love Zanetti and rate him more then most. Dont think Henry would tear him apart because that already happened but in a tight game you look at every little thing you can find.
 
Thought I was tripping out looking at Sjors formation pic.

Imo the opening formation should be static and gifs like that in spoilers below.
 
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2mufc0 said:
Thought I was tripping out looking at Sjors formation pic.

Imo the opening formation should be static and gigs like that in spoilers below.
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next time its going to change colors as well
 
brilliant post of joga about Xavi :drool:
Joga Bonito said:
Far too often people tend to underrate the impact of Xavi and tend to view him as a static and a pure controlling midfielder when he was anything but that. Esp given his showings for 2008 Euro-winning Spain where he was the best player in the tournament and for the 08/09 treble winning Barca side which was a lot more direct and iirc he had 30 or something assists from that period. He was so much more than 'just' the controlling metronome in Barcelona's irrepressible tiki-taka machinery, which in itself is an amazing feat.

I'll just quote some of my older posts on him


Xavi in the 08-10 period was nothing short of amazing, with his incisiveness and ability to dominate the midfield. The man boasted nearly 50 assists during this period and was extremely incisive and capable of threading through balls like very few, all whilst boasting several decisive match winning moments (Euro 2008 POTT, assisting Torres's final winner and being the best player on the pitch, Messi's header and Pedro's opener in CL finals etc).





Here's a taste of Xavi at his imperious and incisive best.



4 assists against Real in the El Classico. His first touch is an absolute delight to watch and the way he always creates space with them is uncanny.

Let's not forget his masterclass against Germany in the 08 Euros where he slipped a lovely slide rule assist for Torres, created a carbon copy of that exact same ball for Torres in the second half, very nearly had another assist with an intuitive ball for Iniesta who hit the bar, before creating another gilt edged chance for Torres. For all of Xavi's unrivalled ability to dominate and control proceedings, he was immense when it came to creating chances (and on the big stages too, as his assists for Messi and Pedro in CL finals will testify, not forgetting his 2 assists in the 2012 Euro final - esp his assist for Alba which was a beaut).
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2mufc0 said:
Imo the opening formation should be static and gifs like that in spoilers below.
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Actually I agree — makes it harder to compare formations side by side when one of them is changing constantly.
 
harms said:
Actually I agree — makes it harder to compare formations side by side when one of them is changing constantly.
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It does but I don't see how else sjor could have acutely captured the movement and fluidity of his attack.

If he lines them up in a simple four four two he would just face questions on xavi monti midfield. Similar to my issue of how to depict scholes.
 
MJJ said:
It does but I don't see how else sjor could have acutely captured the movement and fluidity of his attack.

If he lines them up in a simple four four two he would just face questions on xavi monti midfield. Similar to my issue of how to depict Scholes.
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Put gif in the write up, easy. I've used formation gifs in the past and have nothing against them — just not in the side by side comparison.
 
Went with Sjor at the end. Monti aside his team is really existing and full of so many favorite players.
 
By far my favorite team out in the 1st round of the games. Unlucky @Šjor Bepo .

Congrats @MJJ you have picked really well and curious to see where you will take this team forward.
 
Voted for Sjor's. I like the variable play of Sjor's could have. All attacking players could play multiple positions in good degree. When it clicks, it would be hard to nullify them. I think the lack of powerful DM is the biggest downside of that team. Maybe Monti is that, but I hardly recognize him.
 
Isotope said:
Voted for Sjor's. I like the variable play of Sjor's could have. All attacking players could play multiple positions in good degree. When it clicks, it would be hard to nullify them. I think the lack of powerful DM is the biggest downside of that team. Maybe Monti is that, but I hardly recognize him.
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its funny though, there was time when he was regularly being picked in RR rounds and was rated alongside Varela as class below Rijkaard which is pretty much as high as you can be, guess i got him in the wrong end of the cycle but tbf i prefer it this way, personally would block those pre-footage players in every draft.
Initially i had a plan to go with Busquets(Monti) and Meazza(Rivelino) but had few problems, main was that i would be fecked if i played against a great number 10 and the smaller problem was i didnt know how Meazza fits with others, i say smaller because most others are pretty flexible so its most likely that it would work.
btw how the feck Meazza didnt get picked is beyond me....
 
Šjor Bepo said:
its funny though, there was time when he was regularly being picked in RR rounds and was rated alongside Varela as class below Rijkaard which is pretty much as high as you can be, guess i got him in the wrong end of the cycle but tbf i prefer it this way, personally would block those pre-footage players in every draft.
Initially i had a plan to go with Busquets(Monti) and Meazza(Rivelino) but had few problems, main was that i would be fecked if i played against a great number 10 and the smaller problem was i didnt know how Meazza fits with others, i say smaller because most others are pretty flexible so its most likely that it would work.
btw how the feck Meazza didnt get picked is beyond me....
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https://www.redcafe.net/threads/the-fifth-redcafe-sheep-draft-qf-gio-vs-tuppet.434921/

The sheep draft was his peak. He’s now become a shadow of the player he once was
 
I'm bummed Sjor lost this one I was really interested in seeing this side develop. Probably my favorite of the draft so far
 
MJJ said:
Me too, I love(d) his side.
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It was an unfortunate R1 match-up for me as I probably would have voted for your side against almost all others as yours is one of the most balanced as well. I especially like the Andrade-Zanetti side as that is adaptable to anything imo
 
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