The Road Trip Draft QF: Don Alfredo vs. MJJ

[Invictus]

..........VS............

​

Don Alfredo Tactics

Think about the Invincibles, spearheaded by Bergkamp-Henry. Now imagine them in a trio infernale with the legendary Romario, aided by an All-Time-Great supporting cast in defense and midfield. This is kind of the idea of the team and the aim is to produce some breathtaking goals to win in a convincing fashion.

Despite of this very high demands, I won’t leave the dirty work to some second rate player material. In goal is the legendary shot stopper Vladimir Beara, who was feared all over Europe for his fast and explosive goalkeeping skills.

The defense consists of three All-Time-Great defenders, namely Nesta, Krol and Cannavaro. Cannavaro is tasked with battling it out with van Basten, while Nesta keeps tabs on Dzajic and Krol is giving everything he can to stop Garrincha.

The brilliant Branco Zebec and CL winner Willy Sagnol are my wingbacks, both are a great fit to support my defenders and give width in an attacking sense.

The midfield is as good as any midfield in the draft (with Matthaus and Rikjaard out), Varela gives some top notch protection to my defence and Robbo is simply brilliant in every phase of play. Dennis Bergkamp is the link from my midfield to my attack and this is my favourite part of this team.

The idea of these three wizards combining and scoring for fun is simply something to rejoice in and I seriously think they would match up like chocolate sauce and ice cream. Bergkamp-Henry is proven as one of the greatest duos of all time and Romario has been part of a dream team with R9 and everyone loved that. Henry is also not a selfish player per se, he still holds the PL assist record for a single season (20 assists in 02/03!!) and he was very successful playing with Messi and Eto’o at Barca.

I won’t talk down the players of MJJ because that would be a silly thing to do in this All-Time Draft. Where I fancy my chances is when my attackers take action against his defenders, who are pretty good but a far cry from peak Baresi, which is what is needed here to stop peak Romario. Zebec is in a great position to venture forward and pin Zanetti to the side and prevent him from helping out on the inside, this produces a great chance for me in the middle to take advantage of, especially by Henry in his favourite inside left channel. I expect MJJ to line up with Makelele, but he can never contain all my various attacking threats including the Robbo steam train coming from behind.


MJJ Tactics

Formation 4-3-3

Two of the toughest defenders at the back with el tractor, probably the best right back and andrade, one of the finest attacking fullbacks in footballs history. The midfield is perfectly balanced with makelele providing defensive steel, Falcao box to box finesse and Scholes his usual passing masterclass. In attack, I have probably the best two wingers of all time with only best for competition and the best number 9 in football's history.



Good luck @Don Alfredo @MJJ!

 

[Don Alfredo]

@Invictus something is missing from MJJ write up?

never mind if I‘m wrong

good luck to you MJJ

 

[Invictus]

@Invictus something is missing from MJJ write up?

That's is all I have!

Spoiler

 

[Physiocrat]

@MJJ Which Scholes version is it? Early, the second striker sort of version or older DLP Scholes?

@Don Alfredo Why is Cannavaro the centre CB? Wouldn't it make sense to use either the older Krol or Nesta there due to their better passing ability.

 

[MJJ]

@Invictus something is missing from MJJ write up?

never mind if I‘m wrong

good luck to you MJJ

I wasnt sure how you were going to line up so wanted to wait as every permutation would have different tactics.

Interesting line up, I would have cannavaro on the right and nesta in the middle personally.

• For me sagnol(was expecting bossis) doesn't belong on this stage and he will have a tough time against dzajic. That will disrupt the shape of your defense as a centreback would constantly be moving across to cover the gap.
• Zebec is another who I am not sure how well he will handle Garrincha, his prime from what I have read was a left winger and then later on moved to centreback.
• Having scholes, falcao and makelele in midfield I believe I would have a small edge against bergkamp, robson and varela but obviously it won't be a signficant advantage.

Spoiler: Xtratime Profile

Branco Zebec is one of greatest players in Yugoslavian history and is one of the most completed and versatiled footballers of all-time, could play everywhere on the pitch, mostly perform as left-winger but reach world-class status in the late career as center-back. True leader, fast thinker, understood the game superbly. He was tough and a little bit skinny, but with muscles. He began his senior career at only 16 years old as a left-winger, played with great acceleration, speed and mobility. He could ran 100m for 11s, in football boots. Zebec played very good with his head and he was very calm in important moments. He was also very strong in duels and practically unstoppable on the left side. Zebec wasn't too sophisticated technical player, but he controlled ball very well. In the game he was very brave and rational as well. Never made a move too much, used dribble only when it's necessary. Zebec was known for his reliabillity of playing, really hard to see him mistake.

 

[Don Alfredo]

That's is all I have!

Spoiler

Ah okay, my fault. Just looked a bit like something was left behind while copying pms again...

@MJJ Which Scholes version is it? Early, the second striker sort of version or older DLP Scholes?

@Don Alfredo Why is Cannavaro the centre CB? Wouldn't it make sense to use either the older Krol or Nesta there due to their better passing ability.

He is not playing as a sweeper like Scirea or Tresor, I want him to take up van Basten and I feel having his strength and heading ability against Marco and Nesta's elegant style against Dzajic is the better fit.

Having Krol on the left and Nesta on the right gives me options to build up on both sides of the pitch and it is a better structure in any case than something like Chiellini-Bonucci-Barzagli (just 1 CB with great passing skills) or than just 2 CBs in the middle because building up with 3 is always easier. It is not like Cannavaro is a complete mug on the ball and he is great at organizing a defense so I like to think he is well primed to fulfill his duty.

 

[Deleted member 101472]

So much of don Alfredo’s team is hard to imagine. The nesta cannavaro Krol combination probably won’t give up much, but as a back 3 I’m not sure they are laid out the right way.

And trying to picture Romario alongside Henry with Bergkamp in behind is difficult. It SHOULD elevate Romarios game....

 

[MJJ]

@MJJ Which Scholes version is it? Early, the second striker sort of version or older DLP Scholes?

@Don Alfredo Why is Cannavaro the centre CB? Wouldn't it make sense to use either the older Krol or Nesta there due to their better passing ability.

The more box to box version, I was going to go with the older DLP version but I dont think its needed against a 5-3-2 formation.

 

[Don Alfredo]

I wasnt sure how you were going to line up so wanted to wait as every permutation would have different tactics.

Interesting line up, I would have cannavaro on the right and nesta in the middle personally.

• For me sagnol(was expecting bossis) doesn't belong on this stage and he will have a tough time against dzajic. That will disrupt the shape of your defense as a centreback would constantly be moving across to cover the gap.
• Zebec is another who I am not sure how well he will handle Garrincha, his prime from what I have read was a left winger and then later on moved to centreback.
• Having Scholes, Falcao and makelele in midfield I believe I would have a small edge against bergkamp, robson and Varela but obviously it won't be a signficant advantage.

Spoiler: Xtratime Profile

Branco Zebec is one of greatest players in Yugoslavian history and is one of the most completed and versatiled footballers of all-time, could play everywhere on the pitch, mostly perform as left-winger but reach world-class status in the late career as center-back. True leader, fast thinker, understood the game superbly. He was tough and a little bit skinny, but with muscles. He began his senior career at only 16 years old as a left-winger, played with great acceleration, speed and mobility. He could ran 100m for 11s, in football boots. Zebec played very good with his head and he was very calm in important moments. He was also very strong in duels and practically unstoppable on the left side. Zebec wasn't too sophisticated technical player, but he controlled ball very well. In the game he was very brave and rational as well. Never made a move too much, used dribble only when it's necessary. Zebec was known for his reliabillity of playing, really hard to see him mistake.

Obviously I don't have Sagnol and Zebec man-marking your wingers because they are attacking wingbacks. I have them well covered with Krol and Nesta and whenever they rush back quickly to help in defense, I will have a 2v1 situation vs your wingers. Another important point is with Scholes playing higher up the pitch and your players like Makelele and your CBs not exactly blessed with the same ability like the ginger prince, your build up from defence will be slower and that is very crucial in counters, where Sagnol and Zebec can rush back quickly and help defending.

By the way did you find any evidence of Andrade playing as some sort of LB? He was not really a RB from what I read, more of a right sided midfielder in a diamond (if we are talking modern positions) who covered his side sometimes as well as the middle of the pitch.

 

[MJJ]

Obviously I don't have Sagnol and Zebec man-marking your wingers because they are attacking wingbacks. I have them well covered with Krol and Nesta and whenever they rush back quickly to help in defense, I will have a 2v1 situation vs your wingers. Another important point is with Scholes playing higher up the pitch and your players like Makelele and your CBs not exactly blessed with the same ability like the ginger prince, your build up from defence will be slower and that is very crucial in counters, where Sagnol and Zebec can rush back quickly and help defending.

By the way did you find any evidence of Andrade playing as some sort of LB? He was not really a RB from what I read, more of a right sided midfielder in a diamond (if we are talking modern positions) who covered his side sometimes as well as the middle of the pitch.

Yeah I will post about andrade in a minute. While I find my article, can you find a similar one for zebec and his defensive game?

You are forgetting my fullbacks, both will be overlapping at times so it won't be a 2 vs 1 situation although even if it was I would back my wingers to beat their man more often than not.

No, scholes is playing a box to box version so he will be picking the ball deep plenty of times. He did play almost his whole career in a 4-4-2 with british defenders so knows a thing or two of taking the ball from the CB and releasing it for quick transitions.

 

[MJJ]

Andrade as a player was very unique and antohan describes him far better than I could. Given, that the Don's side had no right fullback and one of the criticism I anticipated was that I don't have any playmakers at the back. I wanted to play andrade as an inverted wing-back of sorts, antohan has decribsed andrade previously as somebody who was very skilled on the ball, with long passing ability and somebody who can play a man-marking role.

People were taken aback by the fluid passing, the ingenuity, the attacking flair... At the centre of it all was José Leandro Andrade, the right halfback. Halfbacks were usually defensive, some attacking, but very few combined both. Andrade was the one organising the defensive line, but also bringing the ball out of defence and acting, effectively, as a deep-lying playmaker.

No one got anywhere near him, or else they would risk embarrassment. It was his dribbling and passing range which made him the Black Marvel, but also the way he run the game at a time when the pitch was split into halves and connecting them two was a long ball. Andrade would keep the ball at feet and progress, attacking the space until some poor sod broke the line and came to stop him, providing the gap for a 5 vs. 4 or an opportunity to dribble through and turn that into 5 vs. 3. Revolutionary stuff, ridiculous as it may now sound.

Don't get me wrong, his defensive duties were of significant importance so in a tight game those would be prioritised. You certainly wouldn't find him running the length of the pitch then. Just to highlight his defensive nous I offer the following:

• 1924 final, against a free-scoring Switzerland. Their star player, Abegglen was the tournament top scorer so far. He operated at inside left, Andrade shut him out: 3-0.

• 1928 final, against eternal rivals Argentina. Top scorer of the tournament Tarasconi, inside left, shut out. 1-1 and 2-1 (no ET or penos then), both Argentine goals came from the other flank.

• 1930 final, again against Argentina, who had the tournos top scorer again (a CF though). Andrade was man of the match keeping Uruguay in the game while still 2-1 down and at 2-2. Both goals scored from the left flank again.

He was immense and had the attributes to do a job either on the right of a DM pair or at fullback.

But back to the story... it was Andrade's success and acclaim at the Paris Olympics that finally forced the Brazilian Federation's hand. Fortunate for us spectators, unfortunate for every side they have pissed on since!

He could be a DM in a two (e.g. where Effenberg is) or a right back. I think right back is safest, his defensive record is superb and one of the few things there is also footage that can be drawn upon.

He had all the attributes for a modern rightback or wingback, while I think the game has evolved significantly in central midfield. I think it would be very very hard to get away with a central midfielder pre-70s except for a few token ones, let alone pre-war when there wasn't really a midfield per se but more a case of two 5-a-side pitches either side of the halfway line.

Andrade was called the Black Marvel for pretty much being the first not to punt it over but to venture from one to the other with ball at feet, creating havoc, but the way central midfields work today would be completely alien to him.

The reason he could venture across was he was an exceptional dribbler and passer, he had the confidence he could either attack space or take a man on and create a numerical advantage,

while having the recovery pace to run back and cover if things went awry. That's precisely what you want from a modern fullback!

Andrade is not going upfield, he has a man-marking detail on a winger. Wingers were ubiquitous in bygone eras, everyone played with them and the right half marked them.

Beckenbauer is not covering him, he is positioning himself where he sees fit to keep things tight and providing an excellent outlet to transition to attack.

When Facchetti is upfield Ronaldo is looked after and, as shown above, Facchetti was very clear and mindful of his defensive duties. Rijkaard's cover is just precautionary, most times he will be all the way back next to Ronaldo while Cutch is still in his own defensive third. He actually chose football over a career as an athlete, no worries there.

You are absolutely right there was a difference between the two, particularly in their pomp. Peak JL (1924-28) was a truly exceptional player and among the first to be World Class both in attacking and defensive phases. You could truly call him box-to-box or have him down as a wingback. DM is actually too negative to describe him. I'd say in 1930 he was more like that but deeper and with wing duties, thus my inclination to see him more like a modern RCB.

It's difficult with older players though, loads of inaccuracies flying about. If you are referring to the Football Greatest website (the one which doesn't actually describe players but provide wikilinks), I'd warn you I've found a fair number of cock ups in there (ignoring polls which are typical web nonsense). Largely excellent though.

 

[MJJ]

The role I have for andrade is to be a distributor from the back and to limit romario's influence on the game. Both of which he is well suited to do. The reason I have him on the left flank is because I think handling romario and henry at the same time might have been too much for him. Here he only has to help my defense with romario and since sagnol has his hands busy with dzajic, I can see him acting in a playmaking role from deep while performing his excellent defensive duties.

 

[Theon]

Never seen Andrade as a left back before.

 

[MJJ]

Never seen Andrade as a left back before.

He is more a false left back which works here as he isn't up against a winger.

 

[Moby]

Might as well swap Zanetti and Andrade. Pupi has more experience of playing on the left and still being top class.

 

[MJJ]

Might as well swap Zanetti and Andrade. Pupi has more experience of playing on the left and still being top class.

But my tactical genius

Swapping the two as I am off to sleep and don't want to wake up to loads of posts and votes against me because of that reason.

 

[MJJ]

@Invictus please update with this.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

imagine mjj managing a proper team and then listening to every fan from the stands, would go through every system in football history during 90 minutes

 

[MJJ]

imagine mjj managing a proper team and then listening to every fan from the stands, would go through every system in football history during 90 minutes

Hahaha I would have stubbornly stuck to my game plan but two of posts immediately after my explanation has been that he hasnth played lb so better to be safe than sorry when I am offline.

 

[Physiocrat]

He is not playing as a sweeper like Scirea or Tresor, I want him to take up van Basten and I feel having his strength and heading ability against Marco and Nesta's elegant style against Dzajic is the better fit.

Having Krol on the left and Nesta on the right gives me options to build up on both sides of the pitch and it is a better structure in any case than something like Chiellini-Bonucci-Barzagli (just 1 CB with great passing skills) or than just 2 CBs in the middle because building up with 3 is always easier. It is not like Cannavaro is a complete mug on the ball and he is great at organizing a defense so I like to think he is well primed to fulfill his duty.

A bit like England's defence in the World Cup then although Stones is a better passer than Cannavaro. Your rationale does make sense though.

Do you intend to play on the front foot or more on the counter?

 

[MJJ]

Marco van Basten

“He’s the quickest 6ft 3in centre-forward I’ve ever seen! Just awesome. He was as quick as Ian Wright, as good in the air as Joe Jordan and he held the ball up better than Alan Smith. [ . . . ] Van Basten could head, volley – he had power and strength.” — Tony Adams

“Probably the best striker I’ve ever seen. He wasn’t just a goalscorer: he could hold the ball up superbly and had great skill, which he showed in his goals. He’ll always be remembered for hooking a stunning volley into the top corner in the Euro 88 final but at that time, at Milan, he was the main man in the best team in the world.” — Jamie Carragher

“It’s such a shame Van Basten’s career was curtailed by injury. What did he have that I didn’t? Touch, skill – and he scored goals as well. He was just such a wonderful, gifted, well-balanced footballer.” — Gary Lineker

“Marco was able to score goals from impossible positions, such as that amazing volley in Euro 88 against the Soviet Union. He had all the qualities for a perfect striker, and his technique made him very hard to stop in the box. His movement was also good. He was a nightmare for defenders.” — Gheorghe Hagi

“Injuries cut him down when he was in the best form of his career, spearheading Fabio Capello’s new and rejuvenated Milan side. Yet by then, Marco had already done enough to perhaps be regarded as the greatest number nine there’s ever been. People always talk about his strike against the Soviet Union in the 1988 European Championship Final, and yes, it was a great goal, but Marco scored even better goals, for both Ajax and AC Milan.” — Ronald Koeman

“He was one of the best strikers in the world.” — Ronald Koeman

“Strong in the air and could create goals for himself. Even though he was tall, he was flexible and could turn and do pretty much everything. Headers, bicycle kicks, volleys, everything. He was also a vicious player. If defenders tried to kick him, he would kick them back. He knew how to look after himself on the pitch.” — Ruud Gullit

“I think he was excellent. I just did everything I could to give him the ball as much as possible.” — Ruud Gullit

“He could score goals in every possible way; spectacular goals, tap-ins, individual goals. He was the complete footballer.” — Demetrio Albertini

“I’ve always said van Basten was the best player I ever played with because he only had a few years in which to show his talent. He won three Balon D’Or’s, yet was only 28 when he retired. Most players have a little more time than that.” — Demetrio Albertini

“He was elegance personified. He could score in millions of different ways and always with an unbelievable touch of class. He had no weak points – he was completely two-footed, and he was strong with his head, but he didn’t just score goals, he also created many, many assists. It is a shame that he stopped playing at such a young age. Had he continued into his thirties, I think he could have become a great ‘number 10’.” — Marcel Desailly

“[ . . . ] there will never be a player like Van Basten again.” — Ruud van Nistelrooy

“I used to play with Marco van Basten at Milan. I asked him how we should give the ball to him. He said, “Just pass it, and then start running to congratulate me”. He always thought he would score, and he was usually right.” — Carlo Ancelotti

“Marco was the greatest centre forward that I’ve ever trained, he was a swan. [ . . . ] Marco remains the greatest in his role. It was such a shame that he was forced to retire at 28. It was a mortal misfortune for him, for football, and for Milan.” — Fabio Capello

“He’s the greatest centre-forward I’ve ever played with or against. Quite simply, he had everything. He could dribble, was good in the air, good awareness, great touch. For such a big man – he’s 6ft 2in – to be so delicate was amazing. He played off the shoulder and his finishing was as good as any striker that has ever lived.” — John Barnes

“He was an incredible player, Marco van Basten. He was the complete footballer.” — John Barnes

“I still remember the first time I saw him. It was in the dressing room from Ajax. He was there for an internship to become a coach. The moment he walked in I did not know what to say. In the period I was at Ajax I’ve got to know him better. He was a nice person, a real striker.” — Zlatan Ibrahimovic

“It is between Romário and Van Basten.” — Diego Maradona, on who was the best player he ever saw

“Oh yes. Right foot. Left foot. Heading, so strong, fast. He could score, he could pass the ball. He was the best. The way he played was timeless. He had to quit when he was 28. Surgery. Stupid surgery to the ankle. It was such a pity.” —Paolo Maldini, when asked about the best player he played with or against

“It wasn’t just about his goals; he was very quick, good one-on-one, he was strong in the air, he had a great shot with either foot. It was hard to find a quality that he didn’t possess.” — Filippo Galli

“He was the most beautiful striker I’ve ever seen. He had an incredible elegance about him. He could do anything with the ball.” — Mauro Tassotti

“The person who really pushed us (AC Milan) forward was van Basten, because of his ability in front of goal and the goals he scored. A really great player.” —Franco Baresi

“So elegant, he never seemed to sweat, but concrete too and with both feet and his head. His footsteps are evident in football history: who doesn’t know his goal in the Euro 1988 final?” — Franco Baresi

 

[MJJ]

FORGOTTEN FOOTBALLERS ~ DRAGAN DZAJIC​

If you’re Serbian and reading this, you’re probably spitting out your coffee right now. The legendary Dragan Dzajic a forgotten footballer? Surely not?

But yes, even Dzajic shares the fate of many brilliant players who plied their trade in an era when not every great footballer ended up in the limelight of Spain, Italy or England. Remaining in their own country, their careers began, developed, peaked, declined and ended – and the world barely took notice.

Dzajic, a left winger blessed with demonic dribbling skills, brilliant ball control, speed, a great cross, a superb free kick, and a sharp eye for the goal, played 590 games for Red Star Belgrade, scoring 365 goals. Exceptional figures – but with the Yugoslav league being an obscure affair for the rest of Europe, it was only during international tournaments that people had the chance to witness Dzajic in action.

Euro 1968 launched his status as world class winger. In the semi-final against England, Dzajic scored the winning goal by lobbing the ball over Gordon Banks. Yugoslavia lost the final to Italy, but Dzajic was elected as the player of the tournament. He also ranked third in the Ballon d’Or rankings that year – behind Manchester Unitied’s George Best and Bobby Charlton. Franz Beckenbauer later stated that Dzajic should have won the trophy. Der Kaiser wasn’t the only admirer of Dzajic:

“Dzajic is the Balkan miracle – a real wizard. I’m just sorry he’s not Brazilian because I’ve never seen such a natural footballer.” – Pelé.

In 1971, Dzajic guided Red Star to the semi-final of the European Cup. There the Serbs easily dispatched their Greek opponents Panathinaikos in the first leg: 4-1. Red Star’s place in the final looked certain.

What happened during the return match is best described by Despina Gaspari, the wife of Greece’s former dictator Georgios Papadopoulos. “I told the president of Panathinaikos that I was very nervous. My husband, standing next to me, said that wasn’t necessary. ‘You don’t think we would leave a matter of national interest to chance, do you? Red Star will surrender and receive their reward.'”

The game ended 3-0 for the Greeks. Exactly enough to make it through to the final. Red Star blamed their defeat on food poisoning.

As such, as a result of a bribe, Dzajic never got to play in a European Cup final. Who knows how different football history would have been had Dzajic’s Red Star, rather than Panathinaikos, been Ajax’s opponent in that 1971 final?

But as it was, Dzajic returned to the obscurity of domestic Yugoslav football. His star would continue to shine brightly there, but it would quickly dim everywhere else.

 

[harms]

Not sure about Cannavaro facing van Basten. I'm a big fan of Cannavaro and probably rate him higher than most here, but there's a 12 cm. difference in height and in this particular case Fabio won't be able to compensate the height difference with his ability, as van Basten's aerial ability at least matches him. And if you put say, Nesta, at him as well, you'll have trouble out wide.

Hypocrisy alert, I think I've argued Zebec case against Garrincha before, but the lack of footage of him doesn't help — don't think that he belongs in the highest tier of left backs that can held their own against Garrincha (which is Maldini and..?).

 

[Don Alfredo]

A bit like England's defence in the World Cup then although Stones is a better passer than Cannavaro. Your rationale does make sense though.

Do you intend to play on the front foot or more on the counter?

This game will be very different from the usual possession vs counter in my opinion, more like both sides exchanging blows in a fast-paced encounter. I fancy my chances in that kind of match because of the Varela-Robson-Bergkamp midfield, they are 3 All-Time Greats playing in a complimentary composition. Varela and Robson together is as strong as it gets in terms of battle strength and game-raising ability, thus offering the perfect platform for Bergkamp to do his magic.

I don't see this kind of well-trimmed task-sharing in the midfield of MJJ, for starters there are many overlaps between Scholes and Falcao in that they both like to have as much time on the ball as possible. Ideally you would want someone with more defensive ability than those two because as it stands, I see no one ready to stop Robson from deciding the match for me. Scholes especially lacks the defensive acumen to combat Robson all game and that is where the match could be easily decided. I am not saying that they are shit defensively or something just for the record, just not on the All-Time Level required to stop Robbo all game.

 

[harms]

At the same time, Makelele, Ruggeri and Vierchowod are all great defenders on their own, but they lack a GOAT presence here against a ridiculously potent Don's central core.

 

[Don Alfredo]

Not sure about Cannavaro facing van Basten. I'm a big fan of Cannavaro and probably rate him higher than most here, but there's a 12 cm. difference in height and in this particular case Fabio won't be able to compensate the height difference with his ability, as van Basten's aerial ability at least matches him. And if you put say, Nesta, at him as well, you'll have trouble out wide.

Hypocrisy alert, I think I've argued Zebec case against Garrincha before, but the lack of footage of him doesn't help — don't think that he belongs in the highest tier of left backs that can held their own against Garrincha (which is Maldini and..?).

Peak Cannavaro did not care about height difference, he just imposed himself and matched up great against any forward he came up against. 2006 WC semi final, one of the most traumatic experiences I still remember, minute by minute



Cannavaro was up against Miro Klose and even if he is not liked well on here, he is an All-Time Great at Heading the ball and an All-Time Great at performing in World Cups. Before that semi-final, he collected 5 goals and 2 assists during the tournament, which means he was in cracking form in the run-up. Of course Miro Klose is not van Basten, but it is not wrong to say that facing Klose in that game was one of the toughest tasks any defender ever had to face, especially with Germany having home advantage as well and being in their most euphoric state since 1974.

Don't really understand where all this talk of Zebec vs Garrincha is coming from while I have stated explicitly in the OP that it is mainly Krol vs Garrincha. That is the best player you can put on Garrincha full stop if you don't have Maldini. Even if it is Zebec defending against Garrincha in some moments of the game, I will always have Krol to cover for him.

 

[harms]

Peak Cannavaro did not care about height difference, he just imposed himself and matched up great against any forward he came up against. 2006 WC semi final, one of the most traumatic experiences I still remember, minute by minute

Cannavaro was up against Miro Klose and even if he is not liked well on here, he is an All-Time Great at Heading the ball and an All-Time Great at performing in World Cups. Before that semi-final, he collected 5 goals and 2 assists during the tournament, which means he was in cracking form in the run-up. Of course Miro Klose is not van Basten, but it is not wrong to say that facing Klose in that game was one of the toughest tasks any defender ever had to face, especially with Germany having home advantage as well and being in their most euphoric state since 1974.

Don't really understand where all this talk of Zebec vs Garrincha is coming from while I have stated explicitly in the OP that it is mainly Krol vs Garrincha. That is the best player you can put on Garrincha full stop if you don't have Maldini. Even if it is Zebec defending against Garrincha in some moments of the game, I will always have Krol to cover for him.

That's why I specifically mentioned van Basten's ability. Cannavaro compensated for his lack of height with his brilliant timing and huge leap, but van Basten is one of the few strikers that matches him in ability (timing, positioning, leap, accuracy and power of his shots) and also has a 12 cm. advantage on top of that. Don't think that Klose is an All-Time great in heading (I'll give you World Cup performances), and he as well lacks height compared to van Basten.

Re: Krol vs Garrincha. I posted about this duel after my thoughts on Cannavaro vs van Basten because I think that you need at least one CB on him full time as well, probably Nesta, which leaves the three of Zebec, Krol and Sagnol against Garrincha and Dzajic. If it was Nesta vs van Basten and Cannavaro on the right, it would've been more believable, although Nesta is a better fit for a tricky winger, obviously.

 

[Gio]

Don't think that Klose is an All-Time great in heading (I'll give you World Cup performances), and he as well lacks height compared to van Basten.

Maybe not Kocsis standard, but if Klose doesn't make that grade, then barely any do.

 

[harms]

Maybe not Kocsis standard, but if Klose doesn't make that grade, then barely any do.

Perhaps it's just my bias, never liked him.

 

[MJJ]

Not sure about Cannavaro facing van Basten. I'm a big fan of Cannavaro and probably rate him higher than most here, but there's a 12 cm. difference in height and in this particular case Fabio won't be able to compensate the height difference with his ability, as van Basten's aerial ability at least matches him. And if you put say, Nesta, at him as well, you'll have trouble out wide.

Hypocrisy alert, I think I've argued Zebec case against Garrincha before, but the lack of footage of him doesn't help — don't think that he belongs in the highest tier of left backs that can held their own against Garrincha (which is Maldini and..?).

I thnk Dzajic against sagnol equally big-mismatch, both of Don's centrebacks will be pulled outwide(krol for garrincha, nesta to cover sagnol) while will leave van basten alone a lot against cannavaro. That's only ending one way.

 

[MJJ]

This game will be very different from the usual possession vs counter in my opinion, more like both sides exchanging blows in a fast-paced encounter. I fancy my chances in that kind of match because of the Varela-Robson-Bergkamp midfield, they are 3 All-Time Greats playing in a complimentary composition. Varela and Robson together is as strong as it gets in terms of battle strength and game-raising ability, thus offering the perfect platform for Bergkamp to do his magic.

I don't see this kind of well-trimmed task-sharing in the midfield of MJJ, for starters there are many overlaps between Scholes and Falcao in that they both like to have as much time on the ball as possible. Ideally you would want someone with more defensive ability than those two because as it stands, I see no one ready to stop Robson from deciding the match for me. Scholes especially lacks the defensive acumen to combat Robson all game and that is where the match could be easily decided. I am not saying that they are shit defensively or something just for the record, just not on the All-Time Level required to stop Robbo all game.

Isn't that what makelele is there for? I see the roles on the three pretty well define, robson is the box to box dynamo, scholes is the primary ball handler in midfield and makelele is the DM sweeping things up. I don't see the overlaps between the two as scholes formed excellent partnership with carrick(something people would argue against in drafts using the same logic if it hadn't happened in real life) and keane who was a box to box mid too.

And scholes has held his own against a lot of strong midfields including barca in 08.

 

[Himannv]

I love MJJ's attack and midfield but I think Don Alfredo has the superior defense. Will read some of the discussion, evaluate the bribes, and then decide what to do.

 

[MJJ]

I love MJJ's attack and midfield but I think Don Alfredo has the superior defense. Will read some of the discussion, evaluate the bribes, and then decide what to do.

Andrade can probably set you up with some lovely ladies if that's what you are after or a kiss from the ginger prince(was good enough for neville).

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Not a fan of either of the teams.

MJJ's team front 3 aside looks worse to me from the first round.

Liked the Falcao/Andrade platform with the option of playing Scholes either in the hole ala behind RvN or as a DLP. Not a fan of the current midfield.

The CB pairing too is not very complimentary for me but the presence of Scholes as the DLP made it okay for me in the first round. Makelele ahead of those two is a bit lacking of building from the back.

Might as well have not voted for either team but the CBs and midfield just about won Don my vote. Robson and Varela should be exchanged though. The right side does look a bit too dry.

 

[Theon]

Yeah it’s an extremely limp right flank for Don Alfredo.

 

[MJJ]

Not a fan of either of the teams.

MJJ's team front 3 aside looks worse to me from the first round.

Liked the Falcao/Andrade platform with the option of playing Scholes either in the hole ala behind RvN or as a DLP. Not a fan of the current midfield.

The CB pairing too is not very complimentary for me but the presence of Scholes as the DLP made it okay for me in the first round. Makelele ahead of those two is a bit lacking of building from the back.

Might as well have not voted for either team but the CBs and midfield just about won Don my vote. Robson and Varela should be exchanged though. The right side does look a bit too dry.

Van Basten does everything Kocsis does and more. Not sure how the front 3 got worse.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

MJJ's team front 3 aside looks worse to me from the first round.

Van Basten does everything Kocsis does and more. Not sure how the front 3 got worse.

Front 3 aside mate

 

[MJJ]

Front 3 aside mate

Ah my bad, read front 3.

 

[Don Alfredo]

Isn't that what makelele is there for? I see the roles on the three pretty well define, robson is the box to box dynamo, Scholes is the primary ball handler in midfield and makelele is the DM sweeping things up. I don't see the overlaps between the two as Scholes formed excellent partnership with Carrick(something people would argue against in drafts using the same logic if it hadn't happened in real life) and Keane who was a box to box mid too.

And Scholes has held his own against a lot of strong midfields including Barca in 08.

Both Falcao and Scholes are the midfield maestros in their best incarnations. That is where the overlap is, unless you use the young version of Scholes, but if you do that you don‘t get his elite build up play from deep like he did in his later years. He was not that all conquering force in his younger years, more like an AM/SS. But he did not play this role at an All-Time level like Maradona or something.

Again the overlap is between Falcao and Scholes, not with Makelele. I hope you are not saying that Falcao is like Carrick because that would be like saying that Xavi is the same player as Busquets.

Regarding your point of Scholes against Barca 08, that was not a great Barca side at all. They finished third in La Liga on 67 points behind fecking Villareal that season and only when Pep came in, he completely transformed the side and made it the juggernaut we all know from 2009.

You don‘t have Makelele stopping Robson because if you do that, Bergkamp is gonna run riot in that gaping hole in front of your defence. Bergkamp-Henry-Romario vs Vierchowood-Ruggeri is just gonna end one way.

 

[Jim Beam]

3-5-2 is most vulnerable to space in behind the wingbacks and not the best when facing just one striker as he can pull them out of position, so not sure why going with such formation when another team has Dzajic and Garrincha out of all people.

While that looks well covered on paper in reality both Krol and Nesta will be dragged wide to help prevent the danger, leaving Cannavaro with MVB way too often. Not to mention it also requires a great understanding between defenders to make it work. Did Cannavaro ever played this role?

That said, liked MJJ midfield more in the first round.